Is Sinner a top 50 player of all time in men's tennis?

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nolefam_2024 said:
The fickle mindset on ttw need to be punished. That's why. You can't have memory of a hummingbird. If someone gave sinner top 50 before yesterday he is same today.

That's called consistency. Otherwise would be a troll
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People change opinions tbf
 
Subway Tennis said:
If we are only counting men’s players he is already inside the top 50.

If we are combining men’s and women’s relative data he is still outside the top 50.

Depending on how you allow for the lack of competitive prime data, he would be between 60th and 80th imo and climbing at a shockingly rapid rate given how GOATily he has progressed in the last 3 years.

The guy has the potential to hit the CYGS this year and blow the standard metrics out of the water.
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I disagree respectfully, but also use peak player strength and not achievement. In the former he is easily already in the top 20 of all time, in the latter likely top 50. Honestly there is little to separate the 40th best player of all time from the 60th, so there is lots of room for educated opinions.
 
pierceforehands said:
If he wins 30 slams he might be top 30 all time. That is how much value slams in this era have, or should have.
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Ok but there still comes a point were a certain number of slams is too much and I think 30 long crosses that. And he will still likely have Alcaraz as competition at least.

We don't know who else will come we have to wait and see.
 
RS said:
Ok but there still comes a point were a certain number of slams is too much and I think 30 long crosses that. And he will still likely have Alcaraz as competition at least.

We don't know who else will come we have to wait and see.
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I was purposely exagerrating of course, but I don't think quality of the field can be ignored. It is why many won't consider Djokovic the GOAT even with his retiring at 24 slams (or more, but most likely 24).
 
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Rovesciarete said:
I disagree respectfully, but also use peak player strength and not achievement. In the former he is easily already in the top 20 of all time, in the latter likely top 50. Honestly there is little to separate the 40th best player of all time from the 60th, so there is lots of room for educated opinions.
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Fair points well made. Very much agree on the small threshold separating 40 and 60, and my weighting of achievements may not hamper Sinner much given how many titles he is likely to scoop in the next 12 months!
 
pierceforehands said:
I was purposely exagerrating of course, but I don't think quality of the field can be ignored. It is why many won't consider Djokovic the GOAT even with his retiring at 24 slams (or more, but most likely 24).
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Ok fair enough I thought this may be that case. Djokovic isn't always rated as the GOAT or anonymously but haven't see list in recent times were he is anything lower than top 10.
 
Subway Tennis said:
If we are only counting men’s players he is already inside the top 50.

If we are combining men’s and women’s relative data he is still outside the top 50.

Depending on how you allow for the lack of competitive prime data, he would be between 60th and 80th imo and climbing at a shockingly rapid rate given how GOATily he has progressed in the last 3 years.

The guy has the potential to hit the CYGS this year and blow the standard metrics out of the water.
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I didn't think about combining men and women. I imagine the poll would probably been different in that case.
 
Winner Sinner said:
But objectively how many players from before the Open era can stay ahead of Sinner?

We are talking about artisanal tennis, a tennis limited to a few initially chosen nations.

Achieving what Sinner has already achieved in his career despite his still young age is infinitely more complicated than in the pioneering times of tennis.

We should ask ourselves why a Mikan in NBA basketball, despite a basketball curriculum that few other players can boast, is not even placed in the top 20 all time of many rankings.

Precisely because the context in which certain results are obtained is evaluated.
Today tennis has reached an exasperated level of professionalism, with increasingly universal competition.

Precisely for these reasons Sinner became the GOAT of Italian tennis even before winning his first slam independently of Pietrangeli's 2 (in the amateur era) and the Roland Garros won by Panatta in the only real season played at the highest levels.

I couldn't make a list of the 50 best tennis players in history, but I can give you a ranking of the best Italian tennis players all time in the top positions, basing the requirements on the reasons listed above, and that is;

Sinner
Berrettini
Panatta
Pietrangeli
Fognini

With Musetti ready to take over within a few years.
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If Third Serve wants to limit discussion to OE because he feels uncomfortable "comparing eras" or whatever, so be it.

But THIS, sir is a crock of SH-ame.

but also too, too typical of tennis fanatics. Nearly all other major sports the committed fans and the professional commentators/reporters they have the knowledge and understanding of the sport's history. They don't feel the need to cover up ignorance by just making up ideas that older players were not nearly as good as Sinner.

Here is ESPN's top 25 baseball players of all time. of the 25 you have 11 who played all or notable part of their career before WWII, and five others who played all or most of their career before 1968.

I guess these 16 players would not make your list of all-time because they were primitive. And i guess they could not be part of this discussion because there are posters who don't feel comfortable talking about the whole history because it has "two eras".

It actually has at least six eras


.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33158613/top-100-mlb-players-all-nos-25-1
 
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RS said:
I didn't think about combining men and women. I imagine the poll would probably been different in that case.
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Yes, in relative terms the womens game has some statistical marvels. Evert (my personal fave), Navratilova, Serena, Graf. Complete freaks of nature.
 
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Subway Tennis said:
Yes, in relative terms the womens game has some statistical marvels. Evert (my personal fave), Navratilova, Serena, Graf. Complete freaks of nature.
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What are the biggest critics on both Evert and Nav that make the fan bases go nuts? Serena and Graf in particular slot perfectly in the big 3 fan wars OTOH.

I mean I don't follow WTA discussions and debates other than the odd lurk. Feels like Serena and Graf are less respected on here than Evert and Nav but maybe I got that wrong even though I think Evert is probably rated a bit lower than the other 3 that being said.
 
Sinner is a massively talented player, I don't see Djokovic ever beating Sinner again at a Slam, even though Djokovic still capable of beating Alcaraz at slam level .

Sinner more dominant on serve than any version of Djokovic ever was .
 
xFedal said:
Sinner is a massively talented player, I don't see Djokovic ever beating Sinner again at a Slam, even though Djokovic still capable of beating Alcaraz at slam level .

Sinner more dominant on serve than any version of Djokovic ever was .
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Is he top 50?
 
RS said:
What are the biggest critics on both Evert and Nav that make the fan bases go nuts? Serena and Graf in particular slot perfectly in the big 3 fan wars OTOH.

I mean I don't follow WTA discussions and debates other than the odd lurk. Feels like Serena and Graf are less respected on here than Evert and Nav but maybe I got that wrong even though I think Evert is probably rated a bit lower than the other 3 that being said.
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Evert is very highly regarded. There are critics of all these great players because they inspire very strong emotions.

Evert’s biggest problem is her modesty. She very rarely talks about her own career. She is impossibly modest so her astonishing achievements go more unnoticed imo.
 
xFedal said:
if he wins 2 more slams this year with 2 Ye#1 numerous masters, he be no.1 from all the people that are sitting on 5 slams or less.
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As there is little difference between number sixty and thirty further great success will necessarily move him quickly up the rankings. Same goes for Alcaraz.
 
For me the biggest questions will be can Sinner stay healthy and can he figure out a way to beat Alcaraz. He was already limping in the semi against Tommy Paul yesterday after having 3 months off to train. His body just doesn't seem like it can handle his physical style of play. These two questions could keep him from not winning another major or going on to win 10+
 
Jonwj86 said:
For me the biggest questions will be can Sinner stay healthy and can he figure out a way to beat Alcaraz. He was already limping in the semi against Tommy Paul yesterday after having 3 months off to train. His body just doesn't seem like it can handle his physical style of play. These two questions could keep him from not winning another major or going on to win 10+
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Sinner will easily win another major. 10+ can be question not 4+.
 
Sinner is already one of the best 25!

In his four slams, Carl beat Jannik twice, and Novak in '23, when he was still good. In his three slams, Jannik never beat Carlos, and beat Novak in '24, when he wasn't any good.
 
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nolefam_2024 said:
Sinner will easily win another major. 10+ can be question not 4+.
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If he stays healthy sure but he gets some sort of injury almost every tournament he plays in and this is supposed to be his physical prime. Reminds me of Novak when he first came on tour. Maybe Jannik needs to start eating Novak's magic diet and see if that helps...
 
With 3 slams, a YEC, 4 MS titles and #1 ? Definitely, probably top 25-30 OE for now.

He's still not ahead of someone like Murray though because he's way behind on MS and overall titles right now, but he will be soon.
 
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