Is Sinners 2024 season the best non big three season we’ve seen between 2003 - present?

Is it?

  • Total voters
    31
dking68

dking68

G.O.A.T.
He has won 6 titles, so far registered a 55-5 win rate and in every loss, injury or fatigue played a major role and has lost valiantly in a tight 3 setter or five setter.

Currently at 11180 points (11580 if points were not removed)
He has a positive head to head over every top ten player except Alcaraz (0-2)

Currently on 6 titles and 6 finals. He is also the youngest player since Ivan Lendl to make the QF or better in his first 10 events, last person to do so was Djokovic in 2015

2 slams and 2 masters, we have 2 more masters remaining and the ATP finals
 
It's a yes from me so far. Other than Alcaraz this year he's the only player outside of the big 3 to win 2 slams in one year since 2003 as you say.

He's nudged in front of Carlos in terms of 2024 with 2 slams, 2 Masters and 2 500's. But it will come down to the remaining events this year.
 
Aussie Darcy said:
It's a yes from me so far. Other than Alcaraz this year he's the only player outside of the big 3 to win 2 slams in one year since 2003 as you say.

He's nudged in front of Carlos in terms of 2024 with 2 slams, 2 Masters and 2 500's. But it will come down to the remaining events this year.
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Murray 2016 is the only competition but if Sinner wins another masters and the atp finals is not debatable, which I think he will
 
Sir Andrew Murray had 12,685 points on 21/11/2016

Sinner is below Murray statistically

Other than that, points from the past were worth more than the points now as @metsman pointed out, there is no way Sinner get 11,000 points in 2009, so if Federer had 10,000+ points in 2009 then it doesn't mean today's 11,000 points of Sinner is better levelwise, thats why it is dumb to compare eras blatantly on ATP Points.
 
Razer said:
Sir Andrew Murray had 12,685 points on 21/11/2016

Sinner is below Murray statistically

Other than that, points from the past were worth more than the points now as @metsman pointed out, there is no way Sinner get 11,000 points in 2009, so if Federer had 10,000+ points in 2009 then it doesn't mean today's 11,000 points of Sinner is better levelwise, thats why it is dumb to compare eras blatantly on ATP Points.
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Get off my threads and ignore me
 
dking68 said:
Get off my threads and ignore me
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Your thread? .... LOL ... Have you bought this thread from the market for this thread to be yours exclusively and for you to decide who posts here?

TTW is public, anyone can post in any thread and whoever reads the posts will reply or ignore. You are in no position to block access to public in threads, this is not facebook where one blocks someone and thus revokes access to threads.

There are some bionic posters here who have put me on ignore for exposing their fanaticism but they don't worry about me posting in their threads, the posts we make are for everyone, not necessarily for the topic starters.... So if you wanna ignore me then do it, I don't care even a bit.
 
Check out Delpo 2012:
YE#1: Nole with 12,920 points, Fed with 10,265, and Delpo played the two a whopping 12 times (Nole 4, Fed 8).

Delpo's Slam draw path in 2012:
AO: Fed-Rafa-Nole (QF)
RG: Cilic-Birdy-Fed-Nole-Rafa (QF)
WI: Nishikori-Ferrer-Murray-Tsonga-Fed (R16)
UO: Roddick-Nole-Ferrer-Murray (QF)

The Big 4 hauled 14 of the 15 big titles (Nole 5, Fed 4, Rafa 3, Murray 2), while Ferrer won the lottery of the lone Masters.

Delpo only made YE#7 and reached 3 Slam QFs. Does that seem bad in your view?
 
metsman said:
Sinner probably doesn't even make a slam SF in 2009. Almost all masters that year were very competitive. Maybe ranked in the top 8 if he vultures enough 250s and 500s with lax doping testing.
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I will be generous and say he has a shot at making the SF of the AO and USO if he lands in specific quarters.
 
dking68 said:
He has won 6 titles, so far registered a 55-5 win rate and in every loss, injury or fatigue played a major role and has lost valiantly in a tight 3 setter or five setter.

Currently at 11180 points (11580 if points were not removed)
He has a positive head to head over every top ten player except Alcaraz (0-2)

Currently on 6 titles and 6 finals. He is also the youngest player since Ivan Lendl to make the QF or better in his first 10 events, last person to do so was Djokovic in 2015

2 slams and 2 masters, we have 2 more masters remaining and the ATP finals
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No Alcaraz 2024 is. Channel Slam and Olympic silver medal.
 
No, Jannik & Carlos' 2024 seasons are tied. I flawed Jannik's season for 2 reasons. One, the on-going WADA testing! Secondly, Carlos won the 2024 H2H!

I flawed Carlos' season for his lackadaisical non-slam performance.
 
SonnyT said:
No, Jannik & Carlos' 2024 seasons are tied. I flawed Jannik's season for 2 reasons. One, the on-going WADA testing! Secondly, Carlos won the 2024 H2H!

I flawed Carlos' season for his lackadaisical non-slam performance.
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Hang on. Sinner only won on hard courts at M1000 and slam level. Alcaraz won on all surfaces. I thought being almost unbeatable on one surface was a negative...that has been the narrative some have tried spinning since around 2005...
 
SonnyT said:
No, Jannik & Carlos' 2024 seasons are tied. I flawed Jannik's season for 2 reasons. One, the on-going WADA testing! Secondly, Carlos won the 2024 H2H!

I flawed Carlos' season for his lackadaisical non-slam performance.
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As a Carlos fan, this is Sinner's year. 2 slams each but Sinner got 2 masters to 1 for Alcaraz and was just more consistent in the non-slams which carries him to his #1 ranking. If Alcaraz won Olympic Gold then maybe there can be argument but losing that final hurt his cause and probably caused his post Olympic slump. Alcaraz was 2-0 against him so that makes it closer but still, this is Sinner's year.
 
Not really. Off the top of my head I would say Delpo 2009, Stan 2015, and most of Murray’s seasons from 2011-2016 were better. Roddick was very good in 2003/2004 as well.
 
Razer said:
Sir Andrew Murray had 12,685 points on 21/11/2016

Sinner is below Murray statistically

Other than that, points from the past were worth more than the points now as @metsman pointed out, there is no way Sinner get 11,000 points in 2009, so if Federer had 10,000+ points in 2009 then it doesn't mean today's 11,000 points of Sinner is better levelwise, thats why it is dumb to compare eras blatantly on ATP Points.
Click to expand...
Sinner would be ranked outside top20 in 2009.
 
Neptune said:
Check out Delpo 2012:
YE#1: Nole with 12,920 points, Fed with 10,265, and Delpo played the two a whopping 12 times (Nole 4, Fed 8).

Delpo's Slam draw path in 2012:
AO: Fed-Rafa-Nole (QF)
RG: Cilic-Birdy-Fed-Nole-Rafa (QF)
WI: Nishikori-Ferrer-Murray-Tsonga-Fed (R16)
UO: Roddick-Nole-Ferrer-Murray (QF)

The Big 4 hauled 14 of the 15 big titles (Nole 5, Fed 4, Rafa 3, Murray 2), while Ferrer won the lottery of the lone Masters.

Delpo only made YE#7 and reached 3 Slam QFs. Does that seem bad in your view?
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Great post.
 
NatF said:
I will be generous and say he has a shot at making the SF of the AO and USO if he lands in specific quarters.
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I think all 4 AO SFists are a lot better than him. Roddick beat a much better Djokovic and would have eviscerated Medvedev with his serve.

USO his only chance is to beat Ned, but I think runaroundDal would be able to beat him honestly. He wasn't that terrible before the SF.
 
Rafa4LifeEver said:
Sinner would be ranked outside top20 in 2009.
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That's a bit too much, Tommy Robredo, Daweeed Ferrer, Michael Youzhny gang were ranked inside the top 20, so surely Sinner isn't that bad.

Sinner definitely might not be be ranked in the top 5 and but he will be in the top 10. Tsonga was ranked 10 at the end of the year, Sinner will also be there in the top 10 somehow.... but top 5 seems almost impossible.
 
Razer said:
That's a bit too much, Tommy Robredo, Daweeed Ferrer, Michael Youzhny gang were ranked inside the top 20, so surely Sinner isn't that bad.

Sinner definitely might not be be ranked in the top 5 and but he will be in the top 10. Tsonga was ranked 10 at the end of the year, Sinner will also be there in the top 10 somehow.... but top 5 seems almost impossible.
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It is, indeed. However, it was me trying to be a Sinfan as a Non-Sinfan by making stupendous claims, like they do with CYGS & winning every other tournament.
 
metsman said:
I think all 4 AO SFists are a lot better than him. Roddick beat a much better Djokovic and would have eviscerated Medvedev with his serve.

USO his only chance is to beat Ned, but I think runaroundDal would be able to beat him honestly. He wasn't that terrible before the SF.
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Alcaraz Wim 2024 vs Ancic Wim 2004?
 
This year isn't over yet. I think that the best non-Big3 year since 2002 is between Alcaraz and Sinner. As of now, Sinner has the lead. But it's not as big as the stats indicate.

Both Players have 2 slam titles. Sinner leads 2-1 in Masters titles. But Alcaraz has a couple of intangible things in his favor, IMHO;

1. Alcaraz won the channel slam whereas Sinner won the hard court double. Alcaraz gains brownie points here, IMHO.
2. Alcaraz is 6-1 vs top-5 players whereas Sinner is 6-3 vs top-5 players
3. Alcaraz is 2-0 vs Sinner

What's it going to take for Alcaraz to pass Sinner this year?

Alcaraz needs to gain 2 big titles on Sinner(1 Masters + 1 WTF or 2 Masters) on Sinner. I.e, he needs win the big titles battle outright vs Sinner in order to pass him. This is possible, but highly unlikely. But I know that Alcaraz wants this badly. So the end of the year is going to be fascinating!

This said, I give Sinner an 85% chance of winning this contest. Sinner, as of now, has had the best non-Big3 season since 2002.
 
Rafa4LifeEver said:
It is, indeed. However, it was me trying to be a Sinfan as a Non-Sinfan by making stupendous claims, like they do with CYGS & winning every other tournament.
Click to expand...

Most of these sinner fanatics are 20-25 yr olds, they are new to the game and lack the perspective of previous eras to gauge anything properly but take pride in the achievements of some random celeb by being deeply invested in..... that kind of herd mentality takes time to vanish from the minds... probably by 30 they will come to their senses or maybe after an entire era of athletes has come and gone they will come to their senses.

Also I cannot imagine anyone who has witnessed tennis in 2000s and 2010s being fanatic of Sinner who is a borebot... thats bad taste
 
Last edited:
Razer said:
Most of these sinner fanatics are 20-25 yr olds, they are new to the game and lack the perspective of previous eras to gauge anything properly but take pride in the achievements of some random celeb by being deeply invested in..... that kind of herd mentality takes time to vanish from the minds... probably by 30 they will come to their senses or maybe after an entire era of athletes has come and gone they will come tot heir senses.

Also I cannot imagine anyone who has witnessed tennis in 2000s and 2010s being fanatic of Sinner who is a borebot... thats bad taste
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Finally someone who speaks English
 
It depends what Sinner does for the rest of the season.

As it stands, Murray's 2016 season is still better overall in terms of results. 9 titles, a Slam, 2 other finals, an OG, a YEC, 3 other MS titles and 12.5k in points. Won a big title on all surfaces as well. Greater than 2 slams, 2 MS titles and 6 overall titles.
 
muzza played vs big3 in 2016

2016 vs 2024MuzzaSinner
YE#1 (100)11
slams (100)12
slam finals (30)20
WTF (40)1?
OG (40)10
masters (20)32+?
big titles64+?
titles (5 for MM)96+?
points12410 (12800 with new system)??? (11180)
W%78-9, 89,7%??? (55-5, 91,7)
positive doping tests02

my points:
muzza 405
sinner 350
 
Last edited:
Sport said:
2 Slams > 1 Slam.

Both Sinner and Raz had better seasons this year than Murray in 2016.

UNDISPUTED.
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i dont think so

most people think that muzza had a better season than nole back in 2016! and nole won 2 slams and played additional final, won 4 masters + another final and played final at WTF and won one MM title (7 titles) and that is better than what sinner (if not for YE#1) and ras did in this season.
 
GoatNo1 said:
muzza played vs big3 in 2016

2016 vs 2024MuzzaSinner
YE#1 (100)11
slams (100)12
slam finals (30)20
WTF (40)1?
OG (40)10
masters (20)32+?
big titles64+?
titles (5 for MM)96+?
points12410 (12800 with new system)??? (11180)
W%78-9, 89,7%??? (55-5, 91,7)
positive doping tests02

my points:
muzza 405
sinner 350
Click to expand...
11580 without the doping rule
 
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