@nintendoplayer - Considering what you've been favoring, part of me is wondering how you might get along with a ProKennex Ki Q+ Tour Pro (315g, 98", 6pts HL strung, controlled 16x19 w/ 8 throat mains, 328SW -- TWE link). Specs seem playable stock, or with minimal hoop/handle lead; could be a very nice fit, provided you can get past the "maracas" sound. If you search ProKennex on here, you'll see most feedback centers around stability, solidness, controlled pop, but above all else, arm-friendliness.
 
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Testing other strings and tensions today on the PT2.0 and Prestige:


RacquetStringTensionMeasured Tension ⌀ComfortControlShoulderTotal
Pro Tour 2.0 (used)Kirschb. Pro Line Evo20kg/44lbs2022/09/05:STI2899826
360+ Prestige MP SiliconeKirschb. Max Power Rough22kg/48.5lbs2022/09/03:STI3278622
Gravity Pro SiliconeKirschb. SSmash 1.2322kg/48.5lbs2022/08/19:STI3287622
93p 18x20 SiliconeKirschb. SSmash 1.2321kg/46.5lbs2022/08/19:STI3078520
Pro Tour 2.0 (new)Kirsch SSmash 1.2319kg/42lbs2022/09/14:STI28-30910928
360+ Prestige MP SiliconeKirsch SSmash 1.2320kg/44lbs2022/09/14:STI3088?
Pro Tour 2.0 (used)Kirschb. SSmash 1.2317kg/37.5lbs2022/09/22:STI26-2899927
Pro Tour 2.0Kirschb. Pro Line 218kg/40lbs2022/09/26:STI281010929
 
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Compared Kirschbaum Pro Evolution to Kirschbaum Super Smash strings on 2 PT2.0s today and I must say I love the Super Smash string. Everybody complains that it holds tension badly, but no other string gave me as much control so far. According to the string comparison tool from TW it has the lowest energy return of all the strings I‘ve tried, so I assume that‘s the main reason why I like it. Apart from that it gives me a more dampened, deader feeling than all the other strings.
The PT2.0 felt even better than before with Kirschbaum Super Smash 1.23 strung at 42lbs. And I had more control compared to the Pro Line Evolution string on my 2nd PT2.0 racquet.

With this setup I‘m now making constant progress and can play longer than before without getting serious shoulder issues. Now the main issue after longer sessions is soreness, but unpleasant pain or inflammated tendons haven‘t occured with the PT2.0.

I also would‘ve never thought that the racquet and string I like most would be some of the cheaper options available :)

I have the feeling the initial question „is the 93p the right choice for me?“ can now be answered with „no“.
 
Compared hitting with the PT2.0 strung at 42lbs vs 37.5lbs and could absolutely feel the bigger sweetspot that AC Tennis has stated in his video which I posted on page 3.

42lbs:
+ more control
+ ball doesn't fly as wide, so easier to keep the ball inside and don't hit the fence
- have to hit noticeably harder, arm getting tired faster
- sweetspot is smaller, hitting outside of sweetspot feels worse than at 37.5lbs

37.lbs:
+ bigger sweetspot, hitting outside of sweetspot feels better
+ more access to topspin
+ swinging more relaxed, noticeably easier on the arm
- less control
- more risk of hitting the fence, overhitting is not an option


Switching to 37.lbs feels like switching to an "easier to use version" of the PT2.0, but you have to force yourself not to overhit. You have to stay relaxed and calm from the baseline and only swing hard when you have a good chance and position for hitting a winner. I think in the long run this will be the healthier way of playing. But it might also be advantageous to have the same racquet with different tensions in my bag for match play, so I can switch to more control or more easy power if necessary.
 
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Update: I have discovered hybrid stringing as my new favorite way of stringing the PT2.0

Kirschbaum Pro Line 2 (40lbs) in the mains and Head Reflex MLT (44lbs) in the crosses. I assume this combination won't be the most durable but the feeling is unmatched. Pro Line 2 by itself is also very nice, combined with the Reflex MLT the PT2.0 becomes "pillowy without loosing control". Going 100% multifilament didn't work for me, but I'm in love with this hybrid stuff.
 
Journey update: yesterday I played my first league match after 24 years of absence from the tennis court. Actually I had to play 2 matches, 1 singles and 1 doubles match. We played on carpet, so the balls came in pretty fast. With my previously preferred 40lbs tension I couldn‘t control the ball properly, so I had strung my other PTs at different higher tensions. And the one strung at 53lbs came out best. I could‘ve even gone higher in tension for this carpet surface. But 53 lbs worked as long as I didn‘t overhit.

The singles result was 6:0 6:1 and the doubles match came out 6:0 6:2.

We’ve won the league game 4:2.

Not long ago I didn‘t even think I would be capable of playing a full match, again. And I am convinced this community played an important part on my journey of finding the right racquet that enables me to play pain-free.

So thank you guys for being real tennisnerds!
 
Hello fellow Tennisnerds,

after not playing actively for more than 22 years, I now continued my Tennis-journey at the age of 42, because my teenage daughter wanted to get into Tennis. Not long after I came back to the good old red clay, the local players were inviting me to their 1st men's team training sessions, asking me to join their team next season. Actually they signed me up without me having a say, because they need more players :)
But I'm still asking myself if the 93p is the right choice for me, especially when getting back to competitive Tennis and competing with hard-hitting guys in their 30s.

Back in the 90s I was playing very competitively but then had a bad shoulder injury with surgery and shortly after that I stopped playing and haven't come back until 1,5 months ago.
Others say I have a very old-school and sophisticated technique, if you wanted to compare my groundstrokes to a former pro-player I think Michael Stich would be a good comparison. Only that I'm a lot shorter, so physically I'm much closer to Agassi:)

Before hitting with the boys, I tried out these sticks:

- Pro Kennex Q+ Tour
- Wilson Pro Staff 97 V13.0
- Wilson Clash 100
- Dunlop CX 200 Tour 18x20
- Babolat Pure Strike 18x20
- Babolat Pure Drive Lite
- Dunlop SX 300 Lite
- Prince Phantom 100X (18x20)
- Phantom 100X (290g)
- Prince Phantom 93p

and the 93p was the only racquet that felt really good. The Pro Kennex felt "meh", the Pro Staff was a bit too stiff and gave me irritating feelings in the upper arm.
The Clash was missing control and feel, also was too light. The Dunlop actually was my first choice before I tried the 93p, but still gave me some irritations in my arm ---> my daughter is now using the Dunlop.
The Babolats gave me painful feelings in my arm right from the first hit. The 100x Phantoms did not feel as comfortable as the 93p. The Lite racquets were missing mass which lead to unclean and too fast swings, especially on my forehand. The 93p and its weight "forces me to have clean technique" which is very positive for my sensitive shoulder. So my conclusion was that my shoulder prefers head-light sticks for now.

But I also think the problem with testing racquets is that you are not allowed to re-string them. And all of these were strung with Polys at around 55lbs. I think that it would've made a big difference if I would've been able to restring them with a softer string / tension. But still, the 93p felt better than any other racquet, even when strung with a poly at 54lbs.

I'm now stringing my 93p with Head Velocity MLT 16 at 44 to 48 lbs. 44lbs was very comfortable but lead to a lot of uncontrolled "moon balls". 48lbs seems to be a good compromise for now, like the middle-ground between control and power. The MLT strings also feel a lot better to my sensitive shoulder than the previous poly-setup in the test-stick.

So I mainly chose the 93p because it was "the only stick that felt good and didn't hurt my arm / shoulder". But now that I have to play long baseline-rallies on clay I'm not sure the 93p is the best choice. It feels as if my racquet choice makes life harder than it has to be. The "boys" are all hitting very aggressive with lots of depth and Top Spin. They're also not swinging as big as I do, actually their technique reminds me more of hitting with a flyswatter and they also make a lot of unforced errors, but when their strokes land close to the baseline I'm having a very hard time returning their shots with enough power, often putting me into a very defensive position. If you watch us playing you can instantly see that I (have to) put much more body mass / body movement into every stroke and I have to work a lot harder to get the same power as they do.

If you combine that with the unforgiving nature and the smaller head size of the 93p you can probably understand my "do I make my life harder than necessary?" thoughts.

But they also have a different style of playing Tennis. I'm more of a tactical player, aiming for precision and variation, only hitting hard if the opportunity for a winner or attacking the net is realistic. My goal is to hit as effortlessly and relaxed as possible. They on the other hand are "always hit as hard as you can with as much Top-Spin as you can" club-players, accepting lots of unforced errors in the process.

From my point of view there are 2 roads I can take now:

1. Perfect my "old-school" technique and style of playing with the 93p, combating their heavy Top-Spins. Accept that I have to work a lot harder than they do to generate power, doing more of a "full body workout" with every stroke. Hoping that in the end this will pay off, especially from a health perspective.
2. Try out some more racquets, trying to find something to make life a bit easier in spin-intensive clay-rallies. Looking for the arm-friendly, controlled feeling of the 93p with more forgiveness, spin and power.


What would you guys propose in my situation?

18x20 or 14x18?

If you want to try some other rackets Pro Tour 2.0 and VCORE95 would be my recommendations.

Both more forgiving than 93P. PT2.0 has that legendary classic HEAD feel and V95 with just a touch of lead is as true of frame as you'll ever find - it gives you whatever you want, flat or spin.
 
18x20 or 14x18?

If you want to try some other rackets Pro Tour 2.0 and VCORE95 would be my recommendations.

Both more forgiving than 93P. PT2.0 has that legendary classic HEAD feel and V95 with just a touch of lead is as true of frame as you'll ever find - it gives you whatever you want, flat or spin.

Thx Anton, you can see me playing with the PT 2.0 in the previously posted video :)
 
Thx Anton, you can see me playing with the PT 2.0 in the previously posted video :)

Stop making me read the thread! :D

Nice playing! Really like your floating movement and solid rotation into the shots.

As far as your PT2.0 it does seem just a bit heavy in the head (maybe slightly over-spec?) and holding you back a bit on some strokes. You can try adding a few grams under the grip to ease the stroke flow.

If that doesn't make it perfect for you then I do think you should take a close look at VCORE 95, it really let me open up my strokes and go for it at 11.7oz 8hl 317SW (just 1.5g lead on V throat). On paper I would think thats too light to be stable and load up the stroke, but in practice it's delivering a great balance of head-speed and consistency.
 
Thanks guys!

As far as your PT2.0 it does seem just a bit heavy in the head (maybe slightly over-spec?) and holding you back a bit on some strokes. You can try adding a few grams under the grip to ease the stroke flow.

If that doesn't make it perfect for you then I do think you should take a close look at VCORE 95, it really let me open up my strokes and go for it at 11.7oz 8hl 317SW (just 1.5g lead on V throat). On paper I would think thats too light to be stable and load up the stroke, but in practice it's delivering a great balance of head-speed and consistency.

Yes, I know what you mean. I will put the VCore 95 on my test-list, thank you.
 
Stop making me read the thread! :D

Nice playing! Really like your floating movement and solid rotation into the shots.

As far as your PT2.0 it does seem just a bit heavy in the head (maybe slightly over-spec?) and holding you back a bit on some strokes. You can try adding a few grams under the grip to ease the stroke flow.

If that doesn't make it perfect for you then I do think you should take a close look at VCORE 95, it really let me open up my strokes and go for it at 11.7oz 8hl 317SW (just 1.5g lead on V throat). On paper I would think thats too light to be stable and load up the stroke, but in practice it's delivering a great balance of head-speed and consistency.
When you say V throat, does that mean one strip at the bottom where the V is formed where it meets the handle? Or is it two strips somewhere above that point?
 
Journey update:

I have a feeling that my actual problem when testing other racquets could've been the strings and tension. I only recently started to mainly use 1.15mm (18 gauge) strings, will even try 1.10mm strings next.
Actually I should re-test many of those racquets with my current go-to string Kirschbaum Pro Line 2 1.15mm - which I won't do of course :)

There is also a "philosophical" factor in using the Head PT 2.0. This racquet forces me to improve my technique and to play relaxed. And staying relaxed in stressful situations like a club team match is what this whole journey is about to me. Only when perfecting my technique and silencing my mind, I can use this weapon efficiently. I like this kind of (inner) challenge :)

Apart from that I will demo a racquet that wasn't mentioned yet, but I hope could also work well with thin and comfortable strings like I'm currently using: Dunlop CX 400 Tour.
Before I got the 93p I mainly played with the Dunlop CX 200 Tour and I liked it a lot, only my shoulder didn't like it 100% (but with much thicker/stiffer strings).
So this will be an interesting experiment.
 
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Dunlop CX 400 Tour.
Excellent sleeper of a frame (as are most Dunlops, for that matter). IMHO their layups are nicer than the majority of what the main guys are cranking out right now, as they haven't made them excessively airy/crispy/hollow. Will be very interested to hear your thoughts, especially how the balance and mass distribution feels, as it is 2 more points head-heavy than the PT 2.0.
 
Haven‘t strung the CX400 Tour yet but was eager to check if the rumors are true and they actually are. The handle is filled with silicone. Actually that‘s the first racquet I‘ve seen coming pre-filled with silicone from the factory. Below the cap they put a piece of foil, separating the silicone from the cap.

BB2-A1462-C040-4371-8-BA2-984103-EEC3-E3.jpg


Nice. I've looked into a lot of racquet handles the past months and this is the most sympathetic and professional looking one, yet :) (Double! Outside cap with logo and another black) Cap, foil and then silicone - looks and feels as if a nerdy stringer from the local tennis shop would've customized your racquet over the weekend. I especially like the foil-thing, must adapt that for my own customizations :)
 
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Today was another racquet testing day.

Dunlop CX 400 Tour, strung with Kirschbaum Pro Line 2 1.15 at 50 pounds
Head PT 2.0, handle completely filled with lots(!) of silicone, way more headlight than before, strung with Kirschbaum PL2 at 48 pounds
Head PT 2.0, silicone, also very headlight, strung with Solinco Tour Bite 1.10mm at 44 pounds
Head PT 2.0, silicone, headlight and whippy, strung with MSV Focus Hex Plus 38 1.15 at 44 pounds

The Dunlop CX 400 Tour was interesting and very much as I had imagined it to feel / play. Easy power, very easy power. Good control. Defensive shots have way more and easier power than with the Head PT. From a pure performance-perspective this racquet could work very, very well for me. I also noticed how I can hit higher paced winners with the Dunlop in comparison to the Head PTs. BUT the stiffness was still noticeable EVEN though I added 3-4g more silicone to the handle (to make it a bit more head-light and I hoped to reduce vibrations even more), something tingling in my shoulder, something creeping up my tendons. Reminds me of stories about Babolat Pure Drive users who developed shoulder pain months after starting to use the PD, without even noticing how the inflammation slowly developed in their shoulder. This is something I could imagine happening with the CX400 Tour, as well.
But apart from that - very nice racquet. But I think I love my (now whippy) Head PTs more.

3 of my Head PTs now weigh about 360g strung, quite hefty - but it feels like it's worth it. The way I can swing now, this headlight balance, very enjoyable on forehand and the OHBH. And I have the feeling my wrist isn't nearly as stressed as before when the PT was much more head-heavy. Also my forehand now feels much more consistent, much more like Federer :)

Of the strings I actually liked the MSV Focus Hex Plus 38 (the softest string they sell) the most. At 44 pounds I never had the feeling of losing control, so next time I'll try going even lower. Very consistent, whippy forehands with this string and my newly head-light PT. Nice and easy backhands as well.
The Tour Bite was stiffer than the others, unpleasantly stiff, so I'll try stringing that one lower as well.

With the Dunlop I can hit harder shots, more direct winners. I can defend better.
With the customized Head PT I can now play whippy topspin tennis with maximum control over the court.

Actually they complement each other quite well. Maybe I should try stringing the Dunlop with much lower tension as well and compare again, maybe both with MSV strings next time at very low tension.
 
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@nintendoplayer - Just curious. After all this, what is your current strung spec on your PT 2.0's? Static weight, balance and swing weight. And twist weight if you know it? And just to confirm, the frames are un-capped?

I'm not able to adequately measure swingweight, balance and twist weight, I have no additional devices like a swing weight machine. I have not modified anything about the caps / the frame itself, so the frame is "untouched".
Thus the swingweight should be 1:1 the same as in stock form? Because I only put silicone in the handle, which raised the static weight to about 360 gram strung with worm-dampener (weighing 2grams).
I can only show you a photo of the racquet balance :D

9-CC1-F9-D1-E483-4-E35-A15-F-CE46991-F30-E5.jpg


93-DE53-FD-04-CB-4-CF5-A2-A7-059-A506529-F5.jpg
 
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Gotcha. Wow... just from the hanging angle in the first photo, I think you're well into double-digit points head-light territory, like 11-13 points if I had to guess -- reason being: I've neck-joint-balanced dozens of frames that were ~9pts HL strung (usually my preferred balance) and the longitudinal frame angle I'm used to seeing is at least a few degrees more parallel to the ground than in your photo. So let's say balance was ~12pts HL (~30.5cm) and swing weight is around the advertised 335 (presuming neck and hoop are basically stock, no lead added). If those numbers are indeed close, then you're looking at a recoil weight of about 184, which is massive compared to even most customized recreational-competitive specs these days, and a pretty big arm health booster. In case you want to see the numbers for yourself, here's the Impacting Tennis Recoil Weight calculator (where I used 360g, 30,5cm and 335 swing weight).
 
" a pretty big arm health booster " :D

So high recoil weight is good for arm health because the racquet doesn't "give in" or "bend" as much on impact, right?

The more I play with these "siliconed" (almost 30g of silicone in the handle) PTs, the more I'm convinced this amateurish customization was just right. Yesterday I hit a really hard ball, consistent whippy forehands, my hitting partner was only running from left to right, defending my shots....and today my shoulder is definitely calmer than it was before the customization, especially when hitting with different and stiffer strings, which always hurt me before.

So the further I get on this journey, the more I learn that weight is your friend.

This guy explains the topic very nicely in my opinion:

 
Presuming you can handle the moving mass, recoil weight is definitely your friend. In layman's terms, more recoil weight means more ability to win the collision with the ball, and impart more impact energy back into the ball, as opposed to less recoil weight causing you to lose more of the collision and receive more of the ball's energy, which, especially with poly strings (the least shock-absorbent of any string type) and higher-than-ever racquet head speeds, ends up in the form of more shock travelling into the frame and up into your arm. It also helps to have a more dense/meaty layup in the frame itself (which the PT 2.0 certainly has), as that helps to deaden any vibrations that do make it to the frame. The proof of the PT 2.0's layup being just that is seen in the fairly low 136Hz handle vibration (per TWU) while still having a fairly firm 65RA flex. A lot of the lighter mid-stiff frames of today, even with certain amounts of "dampening tech", have Hz readings well into the upper 140's, often higher, and many consider 140-ish to be the breakover between comfortable and "less comfortable". So the PT 2.0 has a lot going for it in general, plus even more so the way you've spec'd it up (recoil weight, even more shock absorption from the silicone).
 
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Man you are in deep with Old Blue

Yesterday, after laying 3 of my old blue's on the bench on court, suddenly 3 tennis coaches gathered at my bench, asking me if it was OK to take a closer look at my racquets. Sighs and words of nostalgy came up instantly :)

"......Thomas Muster!"

".... from my junior days, magnificent racquet!...."

"....nice racquets you have there! Similar to the Prestige, right?"

For a second I thought about answering that last comment in detail, how there are worlds of differences between these 2 racquets to me, but then held back cause I remembered that I haven't yet met any tennis player being as nerdy and autistic about racquets as me. They even thought this was the original PT from back in the days......didn't notice "2.0" being printed on the frame.....:D
 
Here's some new footage of me hitting with the siliconed extreme head-light PT 2.0


In this recording, I played with one of the lowest tensions, yet. I had originally strung this racquet with MSV Focus Hex Plus 38 at 38lbs, then played a few sessions with it and measured the tension after hitting at 30.5lbs.
So while hitting in this video, the tension must've been between 31 and 33lbs - which is the lowest I ever hit with.
And it felt great and still controllable. The important thing is not to hold back, not to be cautious. You have to swing confidently with enough top spin, then the ball can stay in.
As soon as you're uncertain about how to hit, the ball will fly.

The PT is definitely a lot whippier now, you can even hear a whippy sound from time to time when I swing. And I attribute the ability to play with such low tension to the extremely head-light balance my PT has now, and also the more spin-friendly string I use. These 2 factors enable me to hit with enough topspin to keep the ball in court with this low tension, at least that's how it feels. It feels as if I can now "shape" the ball a lot better than before.

And one thing I do now: I warm up with the lighter 93p and then later switch to the weighted-up PT 2.0

If I start directly with the PT 2.0 when warming up with short balls at the service line, my wrist complains from time to time. But as soon as my arm is warm, switching to the beefed up PT works flawlessly.
So the 93p regained a special place in my bag, it complements the PT 2.0 quite nicely.
 
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As crazy as it sounds: I'm re-falling in love with the 93p. But(!) there is an important difference this time. It is the newer model.
This is actually a perfect example of how much difference someone can feel between the 2018 and 2020 93p. When I first tested the 93p, I rented the 2020 model and thought "not bad, I'll purchase one to test it for a longer time". Then I checked the forums and the general opinion was "not much difference between 2018 and 2020 model, some cannot even feel a difference, many even prefer the crisper feel of the 2018 model". So I purchased the cheaper model from 2018 which was then also used for all previous string and tension tests and never really worked for me 100%.
Only now, for whatever reason, I purchased one 93p from the 2020 line and am able to test it with my latest preferred strings - and it makes a world of a difference. I can now directly feel the difference when hitting with the 2018 and 2020 model side by side. The 2018 racquet is "crisper", yes. But for me, this simply means "more pain afterwards", and in this case there's only a certain tendon which becomes inflamed, between my elbow and shoulder on the outside of my arm. I can instantly reproduce this with the 2018 93p. When hitting with the 2020 model - no pain so far, only soreness, as also happening with the PT 2.0.
But the 2020 93p also doesn't feel "dead" or "numb" to me. It sits between my customized PT 2.0 and the 2018 93p, kind of a perfect balance of deadened vibrations and still feeling the ball.

So now the 93p regained a spot in my bag :D Before it was one 93p and three PT 2.0s, now it's two 93ps and two PTs. Depending on the opponent and playing style, I will either use the 93p or the PT 2.0, with the 93p getting more playing-time currently.
The PT 2.0 is mainly used against heavy hitters when I need mass to counter heavy balls. The 93p is used when I need to play more dynamic and generate more speed myself. Here's a current recording with the 93p 2020 model, strung with MSV Focus Hex +38 at 39lbs.


These videos also show that I have to work a lot harder with the PT 2.0. It is rock solid, and I feel that especially on slices which aren't nearly as stable and controlled with the 93p. But my game is a lot more relaxed, playful and "airy" with the 93p and that feels like the road to go to preserve health and still be able to play on a competitive level.

Do my hitting partners think I'm the craziest nerd they ever met on a tennis court, having a different racquet-setup with me almost every time they meet me? .....Yes
Has my family lost all hope that this racquet-story will ever end? ....yes
Has my therapist told me that I should progress on my journey, even when I'm overdoing it compared to other hobby players, because it relieves stress, fuels my passion and makes me happy? ....absolutely :D
 
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As crazy as it sounds: I'm re-falling in love with the 93p. But(!) there is an important difference this time. It is the newer model.
This is actually a perfect example of how much difference someone can feel between the 2018 and 2020 93p. When I first tested the 93p, I rented the 2020 model and thought "not bad, I'll purchase one to test it for a longer time". Then I checked the forums and the general opinion was "not much difference between 2018 and 2020 model, some cannot even feel a difference, many even prefer the crisper feel of the 2018 model". So I purchased the cheaper model from 2018 which was then also used for all previous string and tension tests and never really worked for me 100%.
Only now, for whatever reason, I purchased one 93p from the 2020 line and am able to test it with my latest preferred strings - and it makes a world of a difference. I can now directly feel the difference when hitting with the 2018 and 2020 model side by side. The 2018 racquet is "crisper", yes. But for me, this simply means "more pain afterwards", and in this case there's only a certain tendon which becomes inflamed, between my elbow and shoulder on the outside of my arm. I can instantly reproduce this with the 2018 93p. When hitting with the 2020 model - no pain so far, only soreness, as also happening with the PT 2.0.
But the 2020 93p also doesn't feel "dead" or "numb" to me. It sits between my customized PT 2.0 and the 2018 93p, kind of a perfect balance of deadened vibrations and still feeling the ball.

So now the 93p regained a spot in my bag :D Before it was one 93p and three PT 2.0s, now it's two 93ps and two PTs. Depending on the opponent and playing style, I will either use the 93p or the PT 2.0, with the 93p getting more playing-time currently.
The PT 2.0 is mainly used against heavy hitters when I need mass to counter heavy balls. The 93p is used when I need to play more dynamic and generate more speed myself. Here's a current recording with the 93p 2020 model, strung with MSV Focus Hex +38 at 39lbs.


These videos also show that I have to work a lot harder with the PT 2.0. It is rock solid, and I feel that especially on slices which aren't nearly as stable and controlled with the 93p. But my game is a lot more relaxed, playful and "airy" with the 93p and that feels like the road to go to preserve health and still be able to play on a competitive level.

Do my hitting partners think I'm the craziest nerd they ever met on a tennis court, having a different racquet-setup with me almost every time they meet me? .....Yes
Has my family lost all hope that this racquet-story will ever end? ....yes
Has my therapist told me that I should progress on my journey, even when I'm overdoing it compared to other hobby players, because it relieves stress, fuels my passion and makes me happy? ....absolutely :D
Love to hear this, bringing it back to the original spirit of the thread. People look at me funny too when I switch between 3 racquets in a hitting session or ask "another new racquet?" but hey whatever gives you joy. I like the way you describe it as being "airy" - this post is a reminder to me that while I enjoy the feel of the PT better, the 93P can be more "fun" because of its maneuverability.
 
Had another training match yesterday, the best hitting partner I had so far, and that was very interesting. I had 3 racquets with me, the 93p, the Dunlop CX 400 Tour and the PT 2.0
First tried the CX 400 Tour, this time strung low at 39lbs, but the control wasn't there. This racquet feels kind of "overengineered" to me. So unfortunately the Dunlop must leave, just sold it.
The 93p felt better, but I quickly noticed the missing mass in comparison to my PT, I had a very hard time controlling my shots with my hitting partner hitting heavy and fast top spin.
So I then switched back to my well-known and customized PT and now we were talking :) Now I was able to counter his heavy fore- and backhands.
Every shot is powerful with my PT, but the slice is probably my favourite right now. No matter how hard my opponent is hitting, I can trust the PT to be able to counter with perfect stability and plow-through. And especially on faster surfaces like indoor-carpet where it's much harder to counter fast shots with top spin, the slice becomes a real weapon with the PT. Usually when you see recreational players hit a slice, it is a defensive shot. With my PT, I feel like Steffi Graf when slicing, far from defensive. And this opens up so much opportunities. I can slow down the game, I regularly break the rhythm of my opponent, especially when most recreational players are not used to deep slices.
What a wonderful racquet.
 
One interesting question for you guys: what would happen if I'd fill the 93p handle with silicone, making the racquet even more head-light? Would that be "too much head lightness" at some point?
Would I have to counter that with lead tape in the racquet head? Which would bring the 93p into customized-PT2.0-realm and thereby wouldn't make much sense, cause then I'm nearly duplicating the PT2.0 specs?
 
@nintendoplayer - Very interesting. Seems you're indeed a narrower-beamed player stick kind of guy -- that CX400T probably never stood much of a chance. My apologies if I helped contribute to leading you astray! A better choice would have probably been a customized CX 200 or CX 200 Tour. I just hit a CX 200 this morning and was blown away by the feel. I mean, yowzers.

Re- balance and head-lightness, it all depends on the weight and swing weight of the racquet, your physical strength, game style and preferred stroke mechanics. As a 4.0-ish OHBH'er myself, I regularly play a strung balance of 31.4-31.5cm (~9 points head-light) and find it to be the best middle ground for me -- whippy enough to easily crank out a OHBH in almost any situation (ie. when jammed in at the body, or stretching on the run), but also just head-heavy enough to offer requisite counterbalance and "guidance" on my stroke motions. Again, for me personally, I've found that if I go much past the 10 point head-light mark, then overall weighting of the racquet becomes so handle/neck-dominant that the whole racquet loses too much counterbalance from the hoop, and my strokes end up feeling too whippy and lack enough counter-weight to act as a proper guide for the stroke path and face angle -- if that makes sense. But that's just me. If your one of those guys who loves 350+g sticks with 330+ swing-weights, then you may need a 10 or 11 (or higher) point head-light balance just to hit the breakover mark where you feel like you can maneuver and snap the racquet easily enough. At the end of the day, it's a very personal thing, and ultimately it comes down to whatever allows you to play your best tennis in an injury-free way. Hope that helps.
 
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I have a Dunlop CX 200 Tour here, it is modified with lead tape in the head....and it is my daughter's racquet now :D I started with the CX200 Tour last summer, found it very nice, but got some irritations in my arm, no matter what string and tension, so I stopped using it. Her tennis coach reacted quite shocked when checking out her racquet for the first time :D "Your racquet is heavier than mine. And what are these stripes in your racquet head? Where did you get this racquet?"..... :D
 
@nintendoplayer - Interesting re- the CX 200 Tour. You clearly have a very sensitive physiology. And I know you seem settled with the PT 2.0 and current string setup, but I am still curious as to whether you've considered or would consider a ProKennex, as their moveable mass tech is more or less the best at arm protection versus anything else out there. For a model choice, I'm thinking of the 20.3mm beam Ki Q+ Tour Pro -- either the Pro 315g with 328 swing weight (link) or the Pro 325g with 332 swing weight (link). What do you think?
 
@Trip If you look at the very first post of this thread, you will see that I actually already tested a Pro Kennex racquet:

Before hitting with the boys, I tried out these sticks:

- Pro Kennex Q+ Tour
- Wilson Pro Staff 97 V13.0
- Wilson Clash 100
- Dunlop CX 200 Tour 18x20
- Babolat Pure Strike 18x20
- Babolat Pure Drive Lite
- Dunlop SX 300 Lite
- Prince Phantom 100X (18x20)
- Phantom 100X (290g)
- Prince Phantom 93p


And I remember it as feeling "anemic", a weird sound coming from it as well, and we both didn't really connect. But I must admit that this was at the very beginning of my journey. I knew that Pro Kennex racquets could be good for my shoulder but I wasn't able to restring it with my own strings at that time, the shop didn't allow it and I also didn't know that much about strings and tensions back then. So in theory I could now re-test it but would then have to purchase one in order to be able to test it with different strings and tensions. And that's what's currently holding me back I guess. Used Pro Kennex racquets are very rare in Germany to find and buying a new one for around 200 Euros / more than 200$ seems like an unreasonable investment right now.

Also, regarding your comment about my physiology: there surely is a psychological aspect to my racquet choice as well. The weird rattling sound when swinging the Pro Kennex (which all the players I showed the racquet to instantly noticed, they phrased it as "your racquet's singing?!") could be a knockout argument already. After testing so many products, I obviously don't like "overengineered" things. I like simple products serving one clear purpose. As if I could even feel the materials in a frame and get bothered by manufacturers putting too much different stuff into a frame.
 
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Journey update: Some new footage of me hitting with a customized 93p. Added 6g of lead at 3 and 9 and about 15grams of silicone into the handle. I like the extremely headlight balance a lot, can "whip" the racket nicely, especially on forehands. Still doesn't feel as muted / dampened as the Head PT 2.0, but we're getting closer. Also still have to find the perfect string and tension for this setup, in the current video I hit with Kirschbaum Pro Line 2 strung at 44lbs.

 
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Enjoying your write-ups on your journey for the optimal frame OP... You can use a rubber band on the strings as a low weight, reversible way to dampen vibrations without going with cotton balls/silicone (but I see that you have already lol)... I think as long as you can return serves with the 93p that is a keeper frame. I think having 2 or 3 different frames and at least 2 of each is the way to go. Sometimes different frames are better for battling certain kinds of playing styles.
 
That's my idea as well. Unfortunately I have not yet found a string that fits my 93p perfectly. The strings that work fine in my Head PT all have a "trampolinish" tendency in the 93p.
My assumption is that this problem is related to the different stiffness of the frames, with the 93p being extremely soft while the Head PT has a RA in the mid-60s.
 
You should try artengo control tour 960
Much better than 93p in all departments including return of serves
 
Journey update: I have a a string tension problem.

Especially when playing club team or tournament matches indoors on carpet with new balls I don't have enough control unless I string my Head PT at around 52lbs (same for PL2 1.15 and MSV +38 1.15).
But at this tension my shoulder says "ouch" after one match, especially the serves hurt my shoulder at such high tension. And using lower tension doesn't give me enough control, I then have to hit very carefully with every stroke. Serves work well at lower tension, but I cannot control my ground strokes 100% at lower tension in important matches, I produce too much unforced errors.

The process is always the same: I have 4 Head PTs with me, strung between 46 and 52lbs.
And during a singles match I then start with the softest Head PT, switch to the 2nd one shortly after that, pick up the 3rd after 3 to 4 games and then regularly end up with the stiffest racquet setup in order to be able to keep the ball in while dominating the match.

I have several new strings here for testing (Tourbite Soft, Big Hitter Black 7, Hepta Twist, Polyfibre Hightec Premium, KB Max Power, KB Xplosive Speed...), but I'm not sure if that's the solution. It seems that a certain stringbed stiffness is needed for enough control, no matter which string. If I try a softer string I probably have to string it at even higher tension to keep control. And the stiff control strings I tried so far hurt my shoulder even when stringing as low as 40lbs.


What would you guys propose in this situation?

- Test more strings?

- Get used to "holding back" while hitting with lower tension?
 
an option could be a hybrid setup, with a low powered multi or syngut in the main and a control oriented poly in the crosses (maybe with a 2-3 kg tension differential). because with full multi you have to string to high and with full poly too low to get the playability comfort combination you like. another option could be strings like triax etc. take a look in the kobayashi maru thread.
 
I would test more strings, but not just more typical poly's hoping for one to be more gentle on your arm (because most won't be), but truly more shock-absorbent, different material makeups, strung as high as needed for control:
- Truly soft shaped poly mains (Focus Hex +38, Black Knight, Square-X, etc) / syn gut or monofilament nylon crosses (RPM Soft or Diadem Evolution)
- Ashaway Kevlar mains / MonoGut ZX crosses, with Kev at 60+ and ZX at 50+, using slow double-pulls on the Kev and 30-second very slow pulls on the Zyex, and for the ZX crosses: clamps at least 1/2" from the frame and hand-tied knots
- Shaped synthetic mains (Gamma TNT Ocho, Dunlop Silk Spin, etc) and IsoSpeed Cream or Gosen G-Tour 3 crosses
- Multiesters (RPX/Triax/HDMX), either full bed or with Cream crosses

The big picture here is material makeup and shock-absorbability, versus just stiffness or softness of whatever poly in question.
 
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Thanks guys! @Trip I actually have 2 reels of the MSV +38 here, cause I instantly liked this string after testing it, but I definitely feel that it has less control than Pro Line 2 at the same tension - while still hurting the shoulder at 52lbs.
So when I string 2 racquets with PL2 and MSV +38 at 52lbs, I have a bit less control with MSV +38, but nearly the same shoulder pain afterwards.

And I actually, because I love PL2 and MSV +38, created a hybrid of those 2 already :)
MSV +38 in the mains at 50 and PL2 at 48lbs in the crosses. This combo felt really nice - but the control was still lacking a bit.

And because MSV +38 at 52lbs was lacking control while still hurting the shoulder nearly the same as PL2 at 52lbs, my conclusion so far was that stiffness / a certain tension is needed for control, no matter which string.

But your proposals sound very interesting, I will look into these and do more nerdy tests:)

One problem I have with many multis: the gauge. Currently I only use 1.15 mm strings, cause in my tests I got the feeling that the thickness / mass of material is also hurting the shoulder in my small 95sq inch 18x20 racquet head.
Everytime I tested strings with 1.25mm, they hurt more than their 1.15mm version - and most multis I know aren‘t available as 1.15mm version.

Also thought about gut in the mains but that would raise the stringing costs to an unreasonable amount, I assume.

And I read about some players switching racquets between serving and returning games…? Like serving with a 48lbs racquet and returning with another racquet strung at 52? :) I‘d imagine controlling the ball in rallies could then be hard to manage?

Like a „manual asynchronous hybrid“:)

By the way: I also contacted Kirschbaum support about this problem and their response was the following:

„Max Power 1.20 with 48 lbs.
Xplosive Speed 1.18 with 50 lbs.
or our new Flash string, but we only have them in 1.25
we always recommend using the lowest possible tension and the thinnest possible gauge. our strings work better at lower tension, achieving better effects and less pain to the arm.
Max Power vibrates less than PL2 / Super Smash and that helps prevent arm pain.
The xplosive Speed is softer, but it does not have less control, the only thing that you will notice is that it lasts less.
With Xplosive Speed you will have very good sensations and your arm will not hurt.“

So I also ordered a few packs of Max Power and Xplosive Speed…:)

So many strings, so little time….
 
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One problem I have with many multis: the gauge. Currently I only use 1.15 mm strings, cause in my tests I got the feeling that the thickness / mass of material is also hurting the shoulder in my small 95sq inch 18x20 racquet head.
Everytime I tested strings with 1.25mm, they hurt more than their 1.15mm version - and most multis I know aren‘t available as 1.15mm version.

[/QUOTE]

Sorry if you have already stated this, but did your tests of gauge thickness involve any multis? A thick multi is probably going to offer more comfort than even the softest narrow poly. IME, some multis are actually *more* comfortable in thicker gauges than they are in thin gauges.
 
Yes that does include Head Reflex and Velocity MLT, for example. Two multis I had to string even tighter than PL2 to get enough control and at such high tension even got more shoulder pain than with PL2.
At that point my feeling was „no matter what string - anything at 52lbs or above will hurt“.
As if 52lbs is some kind of tension barrier for my shoulder.
I had also tested these 2 multis in other racquets like the 93p, 100x305, Clash, CX200, but could never get good control (without having to string them painfully tight)

That‘s why my impression at that point was that multis wouldn‘t help me, at all. While I had to string them even tighter than polys, they still didn‘t offer as much control and spin as PL2 at 52lbs.
 
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Yes that does include Head Reflex and Velocity MLT, for example. Two multis I had to string even tighter than PL2 to get enough control and at such high tension even got more shoulder pain than with PL2.
At that point my feeling was „no matter what string - anything at 52lbs or above will hurt“.
As if 52lbs is some kind of tension barrier for my shoulder.
I had also tested these 2 multis in other racquets like the 93p, 100x305, Clash, CX200, but could never get good control (without having to string them painfully tight)

That‘s why my impression at that point was that multis wouldn‘t help me, at all. While I had to string them even tighter than polys, they still didn‘t offer as much control and spin as PL2 at 52lbs.


fair enough. isospeed control classic is very soft at high tensions, but it is not very spin friendly. Spin is not terrible when in a hybrid with cream crosses, but it wont be on par with any full bed of 1.15 poly. good luck and please report back if you find the setup that checks all of the boxes.
 
One problem I have with many multis: the gauge. Currently I only use 1.15 mm strings, cause in my tests I got the feeling that the thickness / mass of material is also hurting the shoulder in my small 95sq inch 18x20 racquet head.
some syngut like gosen og are available in 1.20 and thinner.
That‘s why my impression at that point was that multis wouldn‘t help me, at all. While I had to string them even tighter than polys, they still didn‘t offer as much control and spin as PL2 at 52lbs.
therefor the hybrid option with poly cross. you regulate the power with the right cross string but you get the comfort of the multi in the mains, and the vibration problem should be less than with full poly.
 
@nintendoplayer - So a few comments on your latest replies.

First off, regarding gauge of certain multi's and the need to string higher causing arm pain, how about the lowest-powered 1.20-gauge possible, combined with a slick poly cross? I would look at Tecnifibre NRG2 1.18, Head RIP Control 1.20 or Solinco Pro Stacked 1.20, and a poly like Gosen G-Tour 3 1.18, which has a USRSA stiffness of 160 (compared to KB PL2 1.15 Black at 162 and Red at 151), while also having a silicone oil infusion for a much lower string-to-string coefficient of friction, to keep the multi mains snapping back consistently. A hybrid like that would probably be your best/only way to use a multi/synthetic, while getting the playability without having to string too high. My only question would be durability of such a thin multi, but you're stringing fairly often, so perhaps it would work?

Otherwise, if a hybrid approach just doesn't cut it, then I go exclusively to the absolute softest/thinnest polys possible, which, besides KB's offerings, would include (alphabetical by brand):

- Diadem Solstice Power 18, Elite XT 18
- Gosen G-Tour 3 1.18
- MSV Focus Hex Ultra 1.10, Hepta Twist 1.15
- Signum Pro Polaris 1.15, Outbreak 1.18
- Solinco Tour Bite Soft 18 (also TB 20, but durability is a big ?)
- Tier One Ghostwire 1.17 or 1.10
- Tourna Grit 18
- Volkl V-Star 1.15 or 1.10

Don't mean to confuse you with an endless amount of poly's, but those are legitimately the softest out there. Tension maintenance and durability will vary, but hopefully you'll find a match either in one of KB's choices or something from the list above.
 
Guys, thank you again for your detailed input, it really does help me out a lot and keeps me going :)

Apart from testing more and new strings, I actually thought about purchasing a Clash 98 V2 and testing that out with several strings. But I already had the Clash 98 V1 for a few months and couldn't get the control I needed from it, so I assume that even the updated V2 won't give me the precision I prefer and know from my 93p and Head PT. Would you confirm that assumption? Or should I give the new Clash a try in hope to save my shoulder even with stiffer control strings, like the KB Max Power I have for testing?

On the other hand I think it's reasonable to first test the strings I already purchased. Here's my current string repertoire:

1719-CB2-F-FE3-A-4067-BBAA-476-A5-F0-B32-D2.jpg



As stated before, I get the best current control with my Head PT and KB PL2 1.15 strung at around 52lbs - but that hurts the shoulder.
Head PT with MSV +38 at 52lbs has a bit less control and higher launch angle than PL2 at the same tension, but still hurts the shoulder.
I also tested PL2 and MSV +38 in several tensions already in both the 93p and the Head PT, so I would now concentrate on testing the other strings I have in my bag.

Maybe one of these strings can give me the PL2-control without hurting.

Kirschbaum support proposed Max Power 1.20 with 48 lbs and Xplosive Speed 1.18 with 50 lbs for my Head PT.
My idea would be to start a bit lower, approaching the ideal control from the bottom and hoping one string could work at even lower tension than proposed by KB support.
Do you think that's a good approach?

I have high hopes for the KB Max Power string with its maximum control, possibly being able to string it really low.


My current stringing ideas:

- 93p - Max Power 44lbs (due to its high stiffness and maximum control, I hope to be able to string this one very low and still have good control?)
- Head PT - Max Power 46lbs --> same idea, trying to go lower than my usual tension with KB PL2, but still hope to get good control?
- Head PT - Xplosive Speed 48lbs (too low?)
- Head PT - Tourbite Soft 48lbs (too low?)
- Head PT - BHB7 50lbs? (Big Hitter Black is known to need higher tension from the reviews I've read? But I somehow fear the 52lbs barrier and would like to stay below 52?)
- 93p - BHB7 46 lbs?

- Head PT - Luxilon Alu Power 48lbs ?
or
- 93p - Luxilon Alu Power 44lbs?


Or maybe I should hybrid some of these? MSV +38 in the mains with PL2 in the crosses felt pretty nice already, only lacking a bit control.


I'm undecided about the MSV Hepta Twist and Polyfibre Hightec Premium strings, the Hepta Twist seems like a possible painful string, the Polyfibre seems like it would lack control, so I have no idea how I could string these, haven't read a lot reviews about them.
 
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The stringing and testing begins...

RacquetStringTensionComfortControlShoulderTotal
Pro Tour 2.0KB Max Power 1.2021kg/46lbs
Pro Tour 2.0KB Xplosive Speed 1.1822kg/48lbs
Pro Tour 2.0Tourbite Soft 1.1522kg/48lbs
Pro Tour 2.0Big Hitter Black 7 1.1522kg/48lbs
Pro Tour 2.0MSV +38 1.15 / Pro Line 2 1.1523kg/22kg 50lbs/48lbs87
93pMax Power 1.2020kg/44lbs
93pPolyfibre Hightec Premium 1.1521kg/46lbs
 
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