Is the 93p the right choice for me?

[nintendoplayer]

Racquet	String	Tension	Comfort	Control
Pro Tour 2.0	KB Max Power 1.20	21kg/46lbs	6	8
Pro Tour 2.0	KB Xplosive Speed 1.18	22kg/48lbs	8	5
Pro Tour 2.0	Tourbite Soft 1.15	22kg/48lbs	8	6
Pro Tour 2.0	Big Hitter Black 7 1.15	22kg/48lbs	6	5
Pro Tour 2.0	MSV +38 1.15 / Pro Line 2 1.15	23kg/22kg 50lbs/48lbs	8	6
93p (7g lead at 3 and 9)	Max Power 1.20	20kg/44lbs	7	8
93p	Polyfibre Hightec Premium 1.15	21kg/46lbs

Big Hitter Black and XPlosive Speed lost this test. The BHB7 string felt completely out of place. Comfort wasn't good, control was lacking....I knew after a few hits that this string isn't for me.
XPlosive Speed felt a lot softer than PL2 when stringing and this was confirmed when hitting with it. Comfort was OK but the balls were flying at high speeds and I had a hard time controlling the ball. There definitely is a lot of "speed", but not enough control for my taste, at least at 48lbs.

Tourbite Soft and the MSV +38 / PL2 hybrid came in on 2nd place. The comfort was very nice with these two, but Tourbite was quite mushy while the MSV+38/PL2 hybrid probably felt the best of all the racquets today. The hybrid strings have a certain sensation when hitting like no other string in this test. Soft while also having a nice pop explosion when hitting. Tourbite soft feels "mushy soft", but the control wasn't there for me. I felt as if I had achieved the same results already when stringing Pro Line 2 low - and not having optimal control.

Kirschbaum MaxPower was the clear winner today, although I could feel the stiffness and the shoulder hurt a bit after today's session.
Interestingly the 93p felt better than the Head PT with KB MaxPower. But overall, MaxPower at 44(93p) and 46lbs(PT 2.0) felt nearly as stiff as Pro Line 2 at 52lbs.

The 93p with MaxPower 44lbs won today's test. Control was very good, but unfortunately the string still felt a bit stiff, though bearable.
MaxPower in the HeadPT felt definitely stiffer and hurt the shoulder more.
I wonder if the higher stiffness of the Head PT is adding up to the overall stiffness with MaxPower - and that's why MaxPower hurt me more in the Head PT than in the 93p.


Here are some videos of the 93p and the Head PT with the MaxPower string, I'm the guy in the white shirt:


93p working perfectly, some nice whippy forehands which wouldn‘t work that well with the head pt, always hitting on the front foot

93p working nicely, whippy forehands

www.veed.io

93p on the defence

93p (MaxPower 1.20 44lbs)

www.veed.io

But once I don‘t stand perfectly with the 93p, the ball will fly

93 mishit 1

www.veed.io

93p mishit 2

www.veed.io

The Head PT is less whippy, not as good on the run or when hitting a forehand under pressure. I'm not as agile with the Head PT as I am with the 93p. My swings feel slower.
But there is more stability, it is much better for slicing or countering with very short swing. There is simply more heft, more "racquet" to hold against the ball, more plow-through.

Head PT 2.0 (MaxPower string)

www.veed.io

In defensive situations, I prefer the Head PT. I also make noticeably less errors with the Head PT. But I have to invest more energy to use the racquet. I am not very agile with it.


The Head PT 2.0 feels like this

While the 93p feels like this

And depending on the situation and opponent, either the whippier or the heavier sword is appropriate.

On defence, especially when having to counter-punch a lot, defend with heavy slice, the Head PT 2.0 is my weapon of choice. It can hold its own against heavy hitters and gives me more consistency. I produce less unforced errors with the Head PT, but I have to invest more energy, it swings slower.

When I have the room to be more agile, I prefer attacking with the 93p. The touch is better, I can whip the forehand better, the OHBH swings easier, I have slightly more control.
Short angled topspin works a lot better. But I have to stand perfect for every stroke. As soon as I'm not on my toes and time the shot perfectly, the ball flies.
So I produce more unforced errors with the 93p.

It is a matter of risk and reward.



My next planned steps are:

- Testing a MSV +38/MaxPower hybrid (probably with MSV +38 in the mains, as I did in the MSV/PL2 hybrid) in the 93p and Head PT
- Test the Clash 98 v2 with MaxPower and MSV +38/MaxPower hybrid. The idea is: today the flexier racquet felt better and I somehow hope to produce less unforced errors with the 98 head size in comparison to the also flexy 93p. And maybe the comfort is even higher with the Clash V2, so in the best case I would have the good control of MaxPower with even higher comfort.

 

[naturalexponent]

Thanks for sharing! I could see the difference in the slice between the two. Play and movement with the 93P does seem more dynamic. Have you thought of going even lower in the 93P? I found 42lbs to work pretty well for me, maybe even a touch too powerful, but it helped a lot with defense and stabbing balls back, which was its biggest weakness for me when I had it strung higher.

 

[nintendoplayer]

Yeah, I can really push through when slicing with the PT. Slicing with the 93p is much weaker with less control.
I think I'll try a 93p hybrid with MSV+38 at 44lbs in the mains and MaxPower at 42lbs in the crosses next.
The same at 46 and 44lbs with the Head PT.
And then also probably MaxPower alone at lower tension than today, yes.

EDIT: maybe I should leave the MaxPower‘s tension like it was in the test, because control was good but the comfort wasn‘t perfect, yet.
So maybe hybrid the 93p at 44lbs with MSV+38 and MaxPower and the HeadPT at 46lbs.

 

[nintendoplayer]

Fun fact by the way, to complete my journey diary: I am and have been playing in barefoot shoes lately.

With every regular tennis shoe I tried I got knee pain. The reason being that my toes were squashed in these shoes due to very wide feet. That issue isn‘t exclusive to tennis shoes, but playing tennis with quick directional turns and side movement obviously intensified the problem which probably already existed with my normal shoes.

I tried all K-Swiss models, the Babolat SFX3, all popular Asics models, Head Revolts, the wider Adidas models and a lot more….basically every tennis shoe that is recommended for wide feet. I‘ve read every guide you can find online and watched every youtube video about tennis shoes for wide feet

But my feet obviously have a problem with modern tennis shoes.
In the Babolat SFX3 I even hurt my toenails leading to the loss of my big toenail - a premiere for me, never been playing tennis without a big toenail before
In the 90s I used very flexible shoes from Lotto and Hi-Tec, but these types of shoes aren‘t around anymore. I tried the Lotto mirage for example, but the story was the same: stiff outsole and too narrow for the toes.

Since I did this barefoot-switch for tennis I also switched to barefoot shoes as my daily drivers and I couldn‘t be happier. Every walk is an excercise, I walk and run differently, and it feels like one of the best decisions ever.
The toes are spreading out more every day and I can feel how they dampen every step and I use the toes a lot more while walking and running.

With normal tennis shoes the pain was getting so bad I was even afraid of needing knee surgery. Now I‘m convinced I‘ll be able to avert that.

If you look closely you can see in my videos that in many situations I‘m not able to make directional turns as quickly as with normal tennis shoes, having to move strategically on the court and making tiny steps, but that‘s a price I‘m willing to pay to reduce knee pain to a minimum.

So if any of you guys have wide feet and knee pain while or after playing tennis - feel free to contact me

 

[Trip]

@nintendoplayer - What specific barefoot shoes are you wearing for tennis, as well as casual and/or work wear?

 

[nintendoplayer]

For tennis:

Spinwyn - leguano North America

Introducing our first barefoot shoe designed specifically for athletic training. Experience firm grip on any surface with our New Spinwyn Model. Experience full sensory feedback that will revolutionize your training. This lightweight, specially developed grip pad and non marking soul, is...

leguanoshoes.com

For running:

leguano aktiv lavaschwarz Barfußschuhe | leguano

Ultra bequeme Barfußschuhe für Sport, Wandern, Büro und Freizeit. Der schwarze leguano aktiv, made in Germany. Mehr erfahren!

www.leguano.eu

For casual / work wear:

Go Mixed Black - leguano North America

Here we “GO”; This is our barefoot, minimalist version of a trendy “high-top” sneaker. The GOs are made using an advanced knitting pattern that provides: - A more wear-resistant and long-lasting sneaker - Air holes so your feet can breathe (especially in hot weather) - A padded tongue under...

leguanoshoes.com

And also important: I started without any additional inlay, but have now added some cheap flexible inlay soles to all of them, which puts about 4mm of dampening material between your foot and the ground, making the transition much easier and also a lot more comfortable.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B08KJD57LR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The flexible barefoot shoes in combination with those inlay soles now nearly feel like the flexible shoes I had in the 90s.

 

[Trip]

I like that those Leguano's are made in Germany. Will definitely have to look into them. Thanks!

 

[nintendoplayer]

some upcoming stringing ideas....

Racquet	String	Tension	Measured Tension (Stringster)	Comfort	Control	Consistency
Pro Tour 2.0	Pro Line 2 1.15	24kg/52lbs		4	10	10
Pro Tour 2.0	KB Max Power 1.20	21kg/46lbs	21.2kg	6	8	9
Pro Tour 2.0	KB Xplosive Speed 1.18	22kg/48lbs		8	5	4
Pro Tour 2.0	Tourbite Soft 1.15	22kg/48lbs	21.9kg	8	6	5
Pro Tour 2.0	Big Hitter Black 7 1.15	22kg/48lbs		5	5	4
Pro Tour 2.0	MSV +38 1.15 / Pro Line 2 1.15	23kg/22kg 50lbs/48lbs	21.3kg	8	6	7
93p	Max Power 1.20	20kg/44lbs	19.5kg	7	8	6
Pro Tour 2.0	Max Power 1.20 / MSV +38 1.15	21kg/46lbs
93p	Max Power 1.20 / MSV +38 1.15	20kg/44lbs
Clash 98 V2	Max Power 1.20	22kg/48lbs	21.3kg	5	9	8
Pro Tour 2.0	Max Power 1.20 / Pro Line 2 1.15	22kg/48lbs	22.4kg	5	8	8
Pro Tour 2.0	Max Power 1.20 / Pro Line 2 1.15	21kg/46lbs	20.0kg	7	8	7

 

[nintendoplayer]

Today was another string and racquet test, had my first session with the Clash 98 V2. First impression was that I'm hitting with a bat, quite clunky. But the consistency and control was surprisingly high, though the comfort was quite low with KB Max Power 1.20 strung at 48lbs. I will definitely cut out that string and test the Clash again with a lower tension. Also I noticed that the bigger head size helped me especially on my one handed backhand. I hit the frame a lot more when hitting with the Pro Tour 2.0. So the one handed backhand actually worked best with the Clash today, slice and top spin. On the forehand some balls traveled to the moon, but I also have to get used to the higher spin I have to put in my strokes with the Clash.
The grip size is different from my head's, had I known that before ordering I would've chosen a size 2 instead of 3. With head racquets grip size 3 works perfectly but the Wilson grips are obviously a bit bigger. So while I play with an overgrip with my PTs I have to play with the base grip with the Clash.
With KB Max Power strung at 48lbs I had the feeling that the Clash simply "masks" the stiffness but my arm still got sore after hitting 10-20 minutes with it.

The positive surprise were the hybrid setups I tested today, KB Max Power crossed with KB Pro Line 2. This hybrid string setup on my PT at 46lbs felt very nice.
So I will definitely try more hybrids next, Max Power with PL2 and MSV +38.

48lbs seems to be my upper limit with the KB Max Power string where the pain is already too much to take over a longer match, even with the bigger head size of the Clash. So I will definitely stay at or below 46lbs with KB Max Power from now on.

Racquet	String	Tension	Measured Tension (Stringster)	Comfort	Control	Consistency
Pro Tour 2.0	Pro Line 2 1.15	24kg/52lbs		4	10	10
Pro Tour 2.0	KB Max Power 1.20	21kg/46lbs	21.2kg	6	8	9
Pro Tour 2.0	KB Xplosive Speed 1.18	22kg/48lbs		8	5	4
Pro Tour 2.0	Tourbite Soft 1.15	22kg/48lbs	21.9kg	8	6	5
Pro Tour 2.0	Big Hitter Black 7 1.15	22kg/48lbs		5	5	4
Pro Tour 2.0	MSV +38 1.15 / Pro Line 2 1.15	23kg/22kg 50lbs/48lbs	21.3kg	8	6	7
93p	Max Power 1.20	20kg/44lbs	19.5kg	7	8	6
Clash 98 V2	Max Power 1.20	22kg/48lbs	21.3kg	5	9	8
Pro Tour 2.0	Max Power 1.20 / Pro Line 2 1.15	22kg/48lbs	22.4kg	5	8	8
Pro Tour 2.0	Max Power 1.20 / Pro Line 2 1.15	21kg/46lbs	20.0kg	7	8	7
Pro Tour 2.0	Max Power 1.20	20kg/44lbs	20.2kg
Clash 98 V2	Max Power 1.20	20kg/44lbs	19.5kg
Pro Tour 2.0	Max Power 1.20 / MSV +38 1.15	20kg/44lbs	20.5kg
Pro Tour 2.0	Max Power 1.20 / Pro Line 2 1.15	20kg/44lbs	20.4kg

 

[Trip]

@nintendoplayer - Nice update. I would restring the Clash 98 v2 with Max Power at 20kg and retest. You might also want to consider Head Hawk 1.20 Silver in place of Max Power. It's a bit more comfortable, yet even a bit lower-powered with similar control, plus I find it loses tension a bit more linearly/predictably over its life. In the same vein, Hawk 1.20 / KB PL 2 1.15 might be a holy grail setup for you.

 

[nintendoplayer]

@Trip Tomorrow we have a team game with my local club, was thinking about stringing the Clash at 21kg with MaxPower and Pro Line 2 but probably I'll go with your proposal and string the Clash at 20kg with MaxPower and hope to have enough control on fast german carpet Will also look into Head Hawk, thanks.

 

[Trip]

Sounds like a plan. Good luck in your match. I'll be interested to hear how the playtest goes.

 

[nintendoplayer]

The Clash paint job is truly bad by the way. Coming off instantly after stringing:

 

[Trip]

@nintendoplayer - Yeah, not a fan of the Clash paint job at all. If I were to ever commit to it long-term, I would for sure go with gloss black via Wilson Custom (provided they could guarantee a spec match), otherwise order via TW with the matching service, then ship them off to a customizer for repainting (CTR in the USA, or Unstrung Customs in Europe). But I'd have to like the racquet an awful lot to invest that kind of money just in looks alone... (Thankful the Auxetic Prestiges have one of the all-time greatest paint jobs ever!)

 

[nintendoplayer]

Today was Clash 98 day and we had success together. Won my singles match 6:0 6:0 and the doubles match 6:2 6:1. The opponents weren't that strong, though the doubles players were a bit higher ranked in the german LK ranking system and could definitely play better than my singles opponent who was a classical pusher.
I don't like the Wilson grip, at all, neither the size / form nor the grip tape. Instantly got some blisters from it. Will probably replace it with a much dryer overgrip, see if that helps to make the grip feel better in my hand. I like the head grip (size) a lot(!) more, feels a lot more natural in my hand.
Apart from the grip, the Clash was very spinny on forehand and backhand, much more spin than with my Head PT. I also had to change my forehand grip to semi-western / western. If I wanted to hit a strong forehand it was quite a bouncy shot but the ball mostly went in. With the Clash I actually kind of begin to understand what "ball pocketing" means. When I hit the ball perfectly on my forehand, it actually felt as if I "pushed" the ball. Those kind of strokes felt pretty effortless.
I remember similar strokes on my backhand with the 93p and sometimes with the Head PT when stringing MSV +38 very low. When timing and positioning is perfect, the strings / racquet are very soft and you feel as if time is standing still for a moment, like in the Matrix. The Clash with KB Max Power at 44lbs actually reminded me of playing with the Head PT, strung with MSV +38 at very low tension. But the Head PT is heavier and not as easy to whip as the Clash. The frame is quite powerful compared to my Head PT, so I have to dose my swing speed a bit carefully with the Clash.
But when the forehands went in they had lots(!) of spin, much more spin than with the Head PT. And the opponent regularly had a problem returning the shot, the ball was quite bouncy on the opponent's side of the court.
So I play differently with the Clash and I have to control its power by staying relaxed and controlling my swing speed. Windshield-wiper forehands and slice backhands were the optimal way of playing for me on the fast carpet today. The slices also had so much spin that the opponents regularly couldn't find a proper answer.
Many professional reviewers state that the Clash 98 has an inconsistent stringbed - I cannot confirm that. Maybe having one of the most control-oriented strings in the Clash helped, but control and consistency weren't a problem, at all. Dosing the frame's power is the main issue, but I'm confident that's something you can get used to.
I was hitting only a few topspin backhands, only when there was a 90% chance of hitting a winner - and that also worked quite well.
Touch was also quite good, drop shots worked very effectively, luring my opponent to the net and then lobbing him with a volley worked surprisingly well. There were quite a few points I made with lobs, stops, nicely touched slices.
The comfort with Max Power at 44lbs was better than previously, but the shoulder still hurts, can feel the inflammation in the tendons. Head PT strung low with MSV +38 was much more comfortable. Somehow I got the impression that the Clash just "masks" the stiffness and vibration of the MaxPower string.
But there was also a coach watching me and telling me after my match that my ball throw is my problem, I throw the ball to far back and that stresses my shoulder. So I will take some serving lessons with that coach, hoping to improve my shoulder problem further.

So what are my conclusions?

- Maybe my Head PTs are actually too heavy (now) and the head size is too small. At least I get much fewer frame hits with the Clash.
- Maybe I should look out for some potential 98 frames
- I should probably stay in low-tension area. No matter which racquet or string, my shoulder doesn't like tension above 44lbs that much, even with a soft string like the MSV +38. I should probably get back on Mannarino's path which I already started to wander before with my Head PT and MSV +38 strung as low as 40lbs


So even if I don't stick with the Clash in the end, it already taught me some valueable lessons about my racquet journey

 

[Trip]

Nice update again @nintendoplayer. On the topic of alternative frames, I've been biting my tongue a bit over the last few months, because I didn't want to talk down your choices and wanted to let you figure it out for yourself, but it's interesting now that you've found a 98 that has shown you some upsides of a larger head and lighter weight, you may want to seriously explore that a bit more. With the right choice of a 98 that is controlled enough, you can come away with mostly all upsides and very few downsides, versus the likes of a PT 2.0 or 93P. If the 97-99 segment does become more of a serious look for you, I'm happy to delve back in and make suggestions as to what to try.

 

[nintendoplayer]

@Trip

Would you rank the 98s comparably?

The more I read about 98s the more I'm afraid I'll have to test the Blade 98 18x20 (and the Extreme Tour)

 

[nintendoplayer]

The day after hitting with the Clash 98 V2 and MaxPower 1.20 strung at 44lbs...and the shoulder is sore. No bad pain, but playing tennis today would only add up to the soreness. My conclusion is that I even have to stay below 44lbs with the MaxPower string. And I will try a softer string in the mains.

Racquet	String	Tension	Measured Tension (Stringster)	Comfort	Control	Consistency
Pro Tour 2.0	Pro Line 2 1.15	24kg/52lbs		3	10	10
Pro Tour 2.0	KB Max Power 1.20	21kg/46lbs	21.2kg	4	8	9
Pro Tour 2.0	KB Xplosive Speed 1.18	22kg/48lbs		8	5	4
Pro Tour 2.0	Tourbite Soft 1.15	22kg/48lbs	21.9kg	8	6	5
Pro Tour 2.0	Big Hitter Black 7 1.15	22kg/48lbs		5	5	4
Pro Tour 2.0	MSV +38 1.15 / Pro Line 2 1.15	23kg/22kg 50lbs/48lbs	21.3kg	8	6	7
93p	Max Power 1.20	20kg/44lbs	19.5kg	6	8	6
Clash 98 V2	Max Power 1.20	22kg/48lbs	21.3kg	5	9	8
Pro Tour 2.0	Max Power 1.20 / Pro Line 2 1.15	22kg/48lbs	22.4kg	4	8	8
Pro Tour 2.0	Max Power 1.20 / Pro Line 2 1.15	21kg/46lbs	20.0kg	7	8	7
Pro Tour 2.0	Max Power 1.20	20kg/44lbs	20.2kg	5	8	7
Clash 98 V2	Max Power 1.20	20kg/44lbs	19.5kg	6	8	8
Pro Tour 2.0	Max Power 1.20 / MSV +38 1.15	20kg/44lbs	20.5kg	7	7	7
Pro Tour 2.0	Max Power 1.20 / Pro Line 2 1.15	20kg/44lbs	20.4kg	6	7	7
Pro Tour 2.0	Max Power 1.20	18kg/40lbs		6	8	7
Clash 98 V2	Max Power 1.20	18kg/40lbs	17.9kg	7	8	8
Clash 98 V2	MSV +38 1.15 / Max Power 1.20	18kg/40lbs		7	6	5
Clash 98 V2	Max Power 1.20	17kg/38lbs		8	8	8
Pro Tour 2.0	Polyfibre Hightec Premium 1.15	19kg/42lbs		7	7	7
Pro Tour 2.0	Max Power 1.20	16kg/36lbs		8	9	7

 

[Trip]

@nintendoplayer - Beckett's 98's ratings, like most things, should be taken in context; in this case, with a bit of bias towards more advanced skill levels, which is why you see so many 18x20's and 310g+ frames that high up the rankings. Don't get me wrong, those ratings may be mostly dead-on for, say, a physically-strong 4.5+, but they also may be less appropriate for a more lightly-built and/or lower-level player. Also, he brings sponsorship status and overall marketability into the picture, and while I could see those areas very much having an influence on product availability, they have little to nothing to do with the simple merits of the frame itself. Apart from that, though, not a bad general ranking, and I think you actually happen to align more with his rankings than not, as you're more of a mid-high level yourself, who also likes denser patterns.

As for frames to look at for yourself specifically, I think you want to aim for direct/unfiltered feel, <=64RA, 18 or dense 16 mains, ~320+ strung SW, and unstrung weight/balance of 305g/<=32cm (7pts HL), 310g/<=31.5cm (9pts) or 320g/<=31cm (11pts). Given that, here's what I would look at:

- Angell K7 Lime
- Babolat Pure Strike VS (97", will need medium customizing, but still worth a look)
- Dunlop CX 200 (will need medium customizing)
- Head Auxetic Prestige Pro
- Prince ATS Tour 98 (chunkier beam than you may want, but I'd try it nonetheless)
- Prince ATS Tour 100P (it's no wider at 9 and 3 than the 98, so plays smaller than most 100's)
- Volkl C10 Pro, more so C10 EVO (will need customizing, but lighter starting weight)
- Wilson Blade v8 18x20

Hope that helps!

 

[tele]

@nintendoplayer - Beckett's 98's ratings, like most things, should be taken in context; in this case, with a bit of bias towards more advanced skill levels, which is why you see so many 18x20's and 310g+ frames that high up the rankings. Don't get me wrong, those ratings may be mostly dead-on for, say, a physically-strong 4.5+, but they also may be less appropriate for a more lightly-built and/or lower-level player. Also, he brings sponsorship status and overall marketability into the picture, and while I could see those areas very much having an influence on product availability, they have little to nothing to do with the simple merits of the frame itself. Apart from that, though, not a bad general ranking, and I think you actually happen to align more with his rankings than not, as you're more of a mid-high level yourself, who also likes denser patterns.

As for frames to look at for yourself specifically, I think you want to aim for direct/unfiltered feel, <=64RA, 18 or dense 16 mains, ~320+ strung SW, and unstrung weight/balance of 305g/<=32cm (7pts HL), 310g/<=31.5cm (9pts) or 320g/<=31cm (11pts). Given that, here's what I would look at:

- Angell K7 Lime
- Babolat Pure Strike VS (97", will need medium customizing, but still worth a look)
- Dunlop CX 200 (will need medium customizing)
- Head Auxetic Prestige Pro
- Head Auxetic Radical Pro (supposed to play noticeably softer than the G360+)
- Prince ATS Tour 98 (chunkier beam than you may want, but I'd try it nonetheless)
- Prince ATS Tour 100P (it's no wider at 9 and 3 than the 98, so plays smaller than most 100's)
- Volkl C10 Pro, more so C10 EVO (will need customizing, but lighter starting weight)
- Wilson Blade v8 18x20

Hope that helps!

in addition to @Trip 's great recommendations, you might want to demo the vcore pro 97 and 97d (or pick up a used hd)　if you already havent

 

[nintendoplayer]

Thanks @Trip

Would you also judge the Clash 98 V2 as a "low level player's frame" as Beckett does in his video? Feels somehow exaggerated to me.

Regarding your proposals:
I know the CX 200 Tour quite well, having customized it in several steps but could never find a comfortable setup with it. I must say that I like muted frames, that's also why I still like the Head PT so much - and probably the Clash.
The CX200 Tour certainly is a great frame from a pure playability-perspective, but for me it transfers too much vibration. And what I call "vibration" is the "feel" and "crispness" for others as far as I understand these attributes from the many reviews and forum threads I've read. Many people seem to prefer "feeling where the ball hit the stringbed", knowing whether they hit the sweetspot or not. For me the ideal frame is completely muted.

I also tested the Pure Strike 18x20 and 16x19 last year

The Babolats (Pure Strike 18x20, Pure Drive Lite) gave me painful feelings in my arm right from the first hit.

Pure Strike 16x19 - an interesting frame. I instantly felt the higher stiffness and higher power this frame brought to the table. The few shots I made with it were quite powerful, many times even too powerful. But in comparison to the other racquets this simply didn't feel right. Quite disconnected from the ball and a bit of a weird "how hard do I swing, how much energy comes out of the racquet?" ratio.
So I can imagine having very powerful groundstrokes after getting used to the Pure Strike, but to me it was missing control and the feeling of being truly connected to the ball. And it instantly raised my stiffness-alarm in the shoulder.

Do you think the Pure Strike VS could feel noticeably different?

The Prestige is an interesting frame, I have tested the MP last year and had some irritating sensations in my shoulder, but I could feel what people love about the Prestige. In my mind the Prestige has the label "Head PT's cousin, a bit easier to use, but shares many characteristics", making me think that it won't be that different to my Head PTs apart from a slightly larger head? Also that the Prestige won't give me any free power which I have now discovered and beginning to like with the Clash?
Actually I hit more winners with the Clash last Sunday than in any of my previous matches where I used the Head PT.

The Radicals are labeled "stiff and not very shoulder friendly" in my mind for some reason, probably because I watched so many reviews and the Radicals have never been in the "comfortable" category. Is my labeling wrong?

The Prince ATS frames are completely unknown to me, but also hard to find on Germany's used market or for rent. Same for the Angells, even harder to find (used) in Germany or for rent.

So I would probably reduce the potential demo-frames to these

- Prince ATS Tour 98 (chunkier beam than you may want, but I'd try it nonetheless)
- Prince ATS Tour 100P (it's no wider at 9 and 3 than the 98, so plays smaller than most 100's)
- Volkl C10 Pro, more so C10 EVO (will need customizing, but lighter starting weight)
- Wilson Blade v8 18x20


or would you call that a mistake, excluding the others?



@tele I already demoed the Vcore Pro 97 and 100 in the past http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...-the-right-choice-for-me.732487/post-16728089
do you think I should re-demo them?

 

[tele]

Thanks @Trip

I know the CX 200 Tour quite well, having customized it in several steps but could never find a comfortable setup with it. I must say that I like muted frames, that's also why I still like the Head PT so much - and probably the Clash.
The CX200 Tour certainly is a great frame from a pure playability-perspective, but for me it transfers too much vibration. And what I call "vibration" is the "feel" and "crispness" for others as far as I understand these attributes from the many reviews and forum threads I've read. Many people seem to prefer "feeling where the ball hit the stringbed", knowing whether they hit the sweetspot or not. For me the ideal frame is completely muted.
Taking this into account, I guess some of your proposed frames won't fit my preferences?

I also tested the Pure Strike 18x20 and 16x19 last year





Would you assume the Pure Strike VS could make me change my mind about the Pure Strike?


@tele I already demoed the Vcore Pro 97 and 100 in the past http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...-the-right-choice-for-me.732487/post-16728089
do you think I should re-demo them?

Did you demo the 97D specifically? If not, it seems like it would be worth a try if you want a slightly lighter, more forgiving, more powerful version of what you have now without making a drastic change. As a caveat, though, I have only played with its predecessor, the HD, which I used for two years, but the new one does not sound like much of a departure. The head size does not feel any less forgiving than the 98s I have hit with. However, if you have already demoed the 97D or the 97HD, my guess is you got a decent enough idea the first time around. Also, since you are having shoulder issues, I might string it with the lightest string you have to reduce SW.

 

[nintendoplayer]

@tele I haven't actually demoed the D models, only the 97 Pro and 100 Pro, couldn't imagine the D would be that different. Will look into the D model, thanks.

 

[nintendoplayer]

So many racquets, so little time…

 

[Trip]

@nintendoplayer - No, I wouldn't judge the Clash 98 v2 as a "low level" player's frame. Perhaps Beckett was labeling it as such due to some perceived inferiority centering around the Clash silo, like that the string bed isn't predictable enough or something similar, but I'm willing to bet both the 100 Pro and the 98 could very well have a presence as high as ITF/Challenger or beyond, and although they can be a bit polarizing in behavior/feel, I still can't see a glaring-enough hole in the frame to dub it just a "low level" frame. Not even close. Take that for what it's worth to you, though.

Anyways, moving on, I think your reactions are good ones. Also, I'm going to remove my suggestion to try the Auxetic Radical Pro, as upon further research it's probably still going to be too stiff and brassy for you. So strike that from the record! As for the others, I can see why you'd want to leave out the Prestige Pro, and looking at Head as a whole, I think perhaps the modern graphene-based layups may just not agree with you -- possibly fixable with silicone and/or comfort grips, but why go there if there are alternatives that are natively more comfortable with much less, if any, special doctoring up required. And re- Angell, I get it; not much access makes it a hard/non-existent demo. Same goes for Prince if it's just too much effort to get access. As for the Pure Strike VS, it's really only a Strike by name and not much more, being more of reincarnated Pure Control than anything else, really. If I'm being honest, though, it still does share some of that somewhat-airy Babolat feel, not so much harsh as hollow (the Prince Tours have a fair amount of it as well); plus the medium-dense/medium-open 16x20 may not offer quite as much density as you're looking for, and the frame may likely require more customization that you might want to monkey with, compared to most of these others, so if you skipped it, I wouldn't call it a major oversight.

So, onto a modified list (alphabetical by brand):
- ProKennex Ki Q+ Tour Pro 325 (18x20)
- Tecnifibre TF40 305 18x20 and/or 315 18x20 (315 still available in Europe, supposedly)
- Volkl C10 Pro
- Volkl C10 Evo
- Wilson Blade v8 18x20
- Wilson Clash 98 v2
- Yonex VCore Pro 97D

Re- the PK, I know 325g might be pushing it, but the Kinetic tech I think could be worth a try for you and possibly a game-changer for arm health if it agrees with you. As for the TF40, it's on the bubble comfort-wise, but a lot of good feedback on the latest iteration, so potentially worth a hit. I know @Rosstour said he tore a rotator cuff with the previous version, but considering we're narrowing down to this extent, I'd keep it in the fray as long as you don't see a glaring issue. As for the 97D, I would piggyback off of @tele's suggestion of it; if there's a Yonex for you, that is probably the front-runner. Hopefully you can get one as on-spec as possible, or slightly under-spec. It will likely be a bit thuddier than the Blade 18x20, with a bit more rigid hoop and slightly softer neck (which may or may not agree with your arm), plus 320g to hoist overhead with that thuddy of a head may not be a shoulder pleaser, but I still think it's worth a try. You could also try the VCP 97 310, but it's definitely less beefy, not as stable across the string bed (especially between 9 and 3), has more tip flutter and more of a power ceiling -- the combination of which can be somewhat addressed with some lead at 10 and 2, but the "issues" are still there IMHO.

I hope that helps to make the list a bit more relevant.

 

[nintendoplayer]

Thanks @Trip

Interestingly, the C10 Evo doesn't seem to be available (in Europe?).

Search Results - Tennis Warehouse Europe

www.tenniswarehouse-europe.com

While I'm restringing the Clash 98 V2 and Head PT 2.0 once more, I'm a bit shocked about the noticeably worse build quality of the Clash. You can instantly see and feel that the PT is of a much higher quality in terms of material and build quality.
That's also part of the reason why I love the PT, the price / build quality / performance ratio feels better than any other racquet I've tested so far. In that regard, the Clash feels like a very bad example regarding what you get for your money.

But if the Clash works for my shoulder, I'll still gladly pay Wilson for their overpriced product

 

[Trip]

Very welcome @nintendoplayer. As for the Clash build quality vs the PT 2.0, interesting to note, but I'd agree, whatever serves your arm best in the long run has to be the choice.

Speaking of that, any thoughts on ProKennex, specifically that Q+ Tour Pro 325, or maybe the 315 (although it's stable and precise than the 325)? I know I mentioned PK earlier in the thread, but nothing much more was said about it at the time. Do you think you'd be willing/able to give PK a chance?

 

[nintendoplayer]

@Trip I already tested the ProKennex Q+ Tour right when starting this thread, you can see my comment in my first post - it felt "meh" I didn't like the rattling sound from the frame and couldn't get in groove with it, but I also have more racquet experience now, so a re-test would make sense. The 325 version doesn't seem to be available for rent in Germany, also rarely found on the used market. So I would have to purchase it new - which I could imagine doing as soon as I reach a dead end with the Clash.

 

[Trip]

Ahh, that's right, I think you already told me that regarding the Q+ and (again!) I forgot -- my apologies. Yeah, I would keep trying the Clash until you reach a consensus on it. If you don't find it consistent or controlled enough, then, maybe work in the Blade 18x20, VCP 97D and/or TF40 (maybe even the 16x19, as it's still a pretty dense pattern) or whichever Volkls C10 is available.

 

[nintendoplayer]

@Trip I couldn't resist and had to fill the Clash-handle with silicone Raised the weight about 30g and made the racquet a lot more headlight.
The Clash felt pretty nice today on the tennis wall. Strung with MaxPower 1.20 at 40lbs - a lot more comfortable than before and the sweetspot felt quite big. Only now I begin to understand how important the sweetspot is which I probably haven't hit at a particularly high rate with the PT before. Had the PT with me as well, also strung with MaxPower at 40lbs, but its sweetspot was much smaller, leading to a lot more shock-strokes and frame hits. I'm now beginning to understand that my shoulder problem is probably also related to me not hitting the sweetspot often enough with the Head PT and 93p.
The bigger sweetspot and raised power of the Clash-frame makes hitting OHBHs pretty effortless when the timing is right - as if you were simply pushing and redirecting the ball. Control was still pretty high and I had no problem with consistency.
The string itself did not feel softer than when strung at 44lbs, but I had the impression that the sweetspot was bigger, making hitting with MaxPower more bearable than before. When hitting the frame or too far outside the sweetspot, I still felt unpleasant shocks from the frame. Serving also worked quite well with the Clash - we slowly get into a groove.
I'm also eager to do my first SW measurements soon with the Briffidi SW1 device, so I can measure and customize my racquets better in the future.

 

[Trip]

I'm now beginning to understand that my shoulder problem is probably also related to me not hitting the sweetspot often enough with the Head PT and 93p.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner!

The bigger sweetspot and raised power of the Clash-frame makes hitting OHBHs pretty effortless when the timing is right - as if you were simply pushing and redirecting the ball.
[...]
Control was still pretty high and I had no problem with consistency.
[...]
Serving also worked quite well with the Clash - we slowly get into a groove.

✔
✔
✔

I'm also eager to do my first SW measurements soon with the Briffidi SW1 device, so I can measure and customize my racquets better in the future.

Cannot recommend the Briffidi SW1 highly enough -- it's a total game-changer for any enthusiast. The creator really came up with something novel.

 

[nintendoplayer]

Had another hitting session today, my hitting partner was the classical pusher. Put MSV +38 1.15 in the mains and MaxPower 1.20 in the crosses at 40lbs. My hope was to have better comfort while maintaining lots of MaxPower-control. It didn't work perfectly, control was worse than a full stringbed of MaxPower, but the sweetspot was huge. I had to be on my toes and always move into the ball with good timing, otherwise the ball would fly. I was "patting and pushing" the ball quite often, resulting in regular shots that felt quite weak. Also had the feeling I was pocketing the ball for a short eternity and taking the ball very late in order to slingshot the ball.
Felt quite comfortable, though the MaxPower stiffness was still present a few times. My unforced error rate was way too high with this setup, but I always ask myself if I simply have to get used to such low tension and reduce the unforced error rate step by step. In a serious match against a better opponent I would always grab the racquet with higher tension to maintain control - which then kills my shoulder.
Should I try fullbed of MaxPower at even lower tension in hope to have better control?

Here's a video with a few successful low tension-rallies. The racquet is also pleasantly silent with this low tension, you can only hear the the strings spinning the ball.
I'm the guy with the white shirt.

IMG_5015

Clash 98 v2 MSV +38 1.15 / MaxPower 1.20 both at 40lbs

www.veed.io

 

[Trip]

Just keep going lower and see what happens! Pretty soon, you'll be down into Mannarino territory and you'll be able to pull tension by hand! Who needs a stringing machine anyways!

Kidding aside, I would try Max Power at 16.5kg (~36.5 pounds). Considering 40 lbs still got an "8" on control, I'm pretty confident 16.5kg could be a good middle ground.

Also, IMHO you're hitting with much nicer margin with the Clash 98 v2 than either of the PT 2.0 or 93P. Good move giving that racquet a shot.

 

[nintendoplayer]

Also, IMHO you're hitting with much nicer margin with the Clash 98 v2 than either of the PT 2.0 or 93P.

Could you explain your impression in more detail? Are you referring to how high the ball clears the net and / or where I hit the ball on the stringbed?

When stringing at such low tension I always remember this article:

and that you should focus on clearing the net at a relatively low height in order to keep the ball in. And when my timing was right, I was able to implement this quite well.

 

[Hansen]

clearing the net lower and have good length automatically is the opposite of good margin for error. the whole point of having a full poly setup is to be able to hit out, and use the racquet head speed to put enough spin on the ball to get good netclearance and be more consistent. or on the other hand that the stringbed is stiff enough to allow for perfect length control (if you are a flatter hitter) to get consistency. to aim low in regard to the net, because otherwise the ball will sail is in isolation no good advice.

 

[Trip]

Similar to Hansen's reply, good margin means a healthy amount of height over the net (2-4 feet), good depth of shot with less visible strain from the player to get that depth, coupled with enough spin and ball flight arc to land your shots with a safe amount of distance inside the lines. Those things combined are what I refer to as "margin" as a whole.

 

[Hansen]

for me even the opposite is true. on my spinny forehand side it is easy to use low tension poly and get a nice arc (like sock for example), but on my flatter backhand side it is really difficult to get the precision needed.
but there are examples of players that can do it (low tension and flat hitter), like kukushkin.

 

[nintendoplayer]

Just calibrated my SW1 and got some interesting results.

Clash 98 V2 strung with MaxPower 1.20, including worm dampener: 333 SW
Head PT #1 strung with Polyfibre Hightec Premium 1.15, including worm dampener: 331 SW
Head PT #2 strung with MaxPower 1.20, including worm dampener: 330 SW

Nice. And quite interesting that the Clash has higher SW than my Head PTs. Doesn't feel that way, feels easier to whip.

 

[Trip]

@nintendoplayer - Very cool you have an SW1. Welcome to the club! What are the strung static weights and balance points on your two PT 2.0's and the Clash?

 

[nintendoplayer]

Clash 98 V2: 367g
Both Head PTs are exactly 368g....what a weird coincidence

And I cannot measure balance, but here‘s a photo:

The Clash is even more headlight than those 2 PTs

 

[Soundbyte]

And I cannot measure balance, but here‘s a photo:

You don't have access to a pencil and a ruler?

 

[Trip]

To get to upper 360's static weight, I take it you're doing 20-30g of silicone, a leather grip and an overgrip (or two)? Anything else? Any hoop lead?

 

[nintendoplayer]

No lead in the hoop. I only added between 20-30g of silicone, nothing else. I usually leave the standard base grip on the racquet and add a very basic overgrip. On the Clash I even removed the standard base grip and then put 2 overgrips on. The worm dampener also weighs 2-3grams

 

[Hansen]

almost 370g is a lot if you have shoulder problems. if you like the dampened feel of silicone in the handle, have you considered to buy i way lighter frame and modify that to more shoulder friendly specs, weightwise.

 

[nintendoplayer]

almost 370g is a lot if you have shoulder problems.

If you read this thread from the beginning you could come to a different conclusion My experience is that adding weight is not a problem but actually very good for my shoulder. What hurt me most was always related to string tension and vibrations and I had the best comfort with the Head PT, silicone in the handle and low tension poly.
I also experimented with silicone in lighter frames...but it never had the same amount of comfortable dampening as in the PT.
In the end the heaviest frames were the most comfortable ones. Which I account to the pure mass absorbing shocks as well as me automatically swinging slower / using full body rotation because of the higher weight. As soon as I play with a lighter frame I tend to swing faster and swing primarily with my arm which then hurts the shoulder again.
My impression is that weight is actually beneficial for sensitive shoulders. To me, swinging a head-heavy lighter racquet feels less comfortable than swinging an actually heavier but way head-lighter racquet.

 

[nintendoplayer]

Had another session on the tennis wall today and 17kg/38lbs MaxPower 1.20 on the Clash 98 V2 felt pretty comfortable with good control, will use this for upcoming matches as default setup. On the Head PT the same comfort at 16kg/36lbs with good control. Polyfibre Hightec Premium 1.15 on the Head PT strung at 19kg/42lbs felt a bit weird, also made a weird sound when hitting. Like a generic soft string with good comfort, average control and a weird pingpong sound.

 

[nintendoplayer]

Hit the tennis wall again today and had a direct comparison of the Clash with / without silicone. Without I can whip easier, need less energy, but it‘s also a bit unstable in comparison and I tend to swing too fast on my backhand from time to time.
With silicone it feels sturdier, more stable, which feels useful against heavy hitters.
It‘s a fine line between the silicone noticeably reducing shock and the added weight needing more muscle energy. Without silicone I can feel TE from shock hits, with silicone the shoulder gets sore quicker.
But I will remove the silicone and continue with MaxP at 16kg which felt very comfortable.

 

[Trip]

How about adding 10-15g of silicone instead of your usual 20-30g? Perhaps it would be the best of both worlds?

 

[nintendoplayer]

@Trip For now I will continue testing the Clashes without any silicone, see if they'll still be comfortable with low tension. If it doesn't work as expected, I can still follow your route, though I did that before with the PTs and the effect wasn't nearly as good. That's why I'm somehow in the "all or nothing" camp. But let's see how the Clash works.

Another interesting thing I found out after getting a 2nd Clash: their swingweight varies drastically. After removing every bit of silicone from Frame #1 I compared their static weight and swingweight:

Clash 98 V2 Frame #1

Strung static weight 337g
Strung swingweight 331
Unstrung static weight 315g incl. base grip
Unstrung swingweight 302


Clash 98 V2 Frame #2

Strung static weight 326g
Strung swingweight 318 (MaxPower 1.20), 316 (Xplosive Speed 1.18)
Unstrung static weight 310g
Unstrung swingweight 288


Clash 98 V2 Frame #3

Unstrung static weight 308g
Unstrung swingweight 284


Clash 98 V1 Frame #1

Unstrung static weight 311g
Unstrung swingweight 291


While Frame #2 is a bit head-lighter than Frame #1 (Frame #2 in front)

So we have a static weight difference of 11g while the swingweight is even 13g higher on Frame #1. Maybe my impression of Frame #2 being a lot easier to whip is related to the swingweight being 13g lower?
Spontaneously I would add 12g of lead to Frame #2, but that would make it a lot more head-heavy compared to Frame #1?

Any proposals?

Another weird idea I had: label one frame "whippy", the other one "sturdy" and use the appropriate one in matches depending on how hard the current opponent is hitting....?

 

[Trip]

My proposal: So Frame #2 is pretty much on-spec. Presuming you have the cash, I would place an order with TWE using their matching service (all-but-mandatory with Babolat, Head, Wilson, Tecnifibre) to find you another one (or more) that's as close to Frame #2 as possible (re-measure unstrung weight, balance, swing weight just to be sure, and share those numbers with them). Then sell Frame #1. Now you'll have nearly identical platform templates, making spec replication easier and more uniform, and having on-spec frames will afford you a much wider customization window, which is crucial when the frame in stock form is already close to playable (as it appears to be in this case).

So that's what I would do, as opposed to just settling with trying to wrestle matching two frames at such a wide variance.