Is the ATP Cup a hit or a miss ?

Otacon

Hall of Fame
(...) Djokovic's ATP Cup win counts as a career title, while his Davis Cup triumph does not. This has sparked a war of words on social media.

US Davis Cup captain, Mardy Fish, took to Twitter to share his concern regarding the ATP Cup.


Vasek Pospisil, who is part of the ATP Player Council, acknowledged Fish before replying the ranking system is "no longer fair".

The debate prompted a reply by Sergiy Stakhovsky, who resigned from the ATP Player Council last year, criticising the board for "doing whatever they feel like".

Pablo Andujar declared the tournament "a joke", and Australian James Duckworth said it was "absolutely ridiculous".

John Millman, who picked up 70 rankings points and almost $177,000, also believes the point system of the ATP Cup is unfair and has called for equal opportunity for all players to be able to qualify for such a prestigious event.

A world ranking is calculated on a player's best 18 tournaments but a special clause enables those who played in the ATP Cup to add the additional points. And the world No 47 claims the extra countable tournament is wrong, as is the amount of total points.


As things stand, the Davis Cup and ATP Cup appear to be staying in their current formats. It may drive debate amongst players, but money, once again, is the deciding factor.


 

James P

Hall of Fame
I agree and mentioned elsewhere it shouldn't be an extra tournament due to the inherent unfairness in ability to qualify for the tournament. I'm fine with the ATP Finals being extra points, but not the ATP Cup. Make it replace your 18th best score if it happens to improve your standings, sure, but adding an extra line that only a very limited amount of people have an opportunity at is dumb.

Pretty much everything else about the tournament was fine. I'd also consider moving Perth to a city nearer Sydney, but that's a pretty low priority.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Totally agree about this event awarding ranking points when they've been taken away from Davis Cup and the Olympics!

That said, I did enjoy the ATP Cup but I don't like that it pushed the traditional pre-AO events aside eg. Brisbane, Sydney, Doha and Hopman Cup.
 
i guess they'll do as they did with the #NextMugs thing: temporarily count it as a title to make a splash on social crapworks... and come back to reason later.
what's next?... the laver cup exo will be a title as well? :rolleyes:
 

Third Serve

Hall of Fame
I think it'd be cool if the ATP Cup and Davis Cup had their own shared ranking system, separated from the rest of the tour. That way, countries are ranked instead of players. So both events would still hand out ranking points, but they wouldn't go to the official ATP ranking system and they would go to entire teams. But then again, two events probably aren't enough for such a system.
 
I think it'd be cool if the ATP Cup and Davis Cup had their own shared ranking system, separated from the rest of the tour. That way, countries are ranked instead of players. So both events would still hand out ranking points, but they wouldn't go to the official ATP ranking system and they would go to entire teams. But then again, two events probably aren't enough for such a system.
davis cup had(still has?) its own rankings:
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You have no argument as to why it is fine for the ATP Finals but not the Cup. The top 8 players versus the top 3-5 times 24? Sound like the Cup is more inclusive, to me.

I agree and mentioned elsewhere it shouldn't be an extra tournament due to the inherent unfairness in ability to qualify for the tournament. I'm fine with the ATP Finals being extra points, but not the ATP Cup. Make it replace your 18th best score if it happens to improve your standings, sure, but adding an extra line that only a very limited amount of people have an opportunity at is dumb.

Pretty much everything else about the tournament was fine. I'd also consider moving Perth to a city nearer Sydney, but that's a pretty low priority.
 

Fabresque

Professional
Going off what @Third Serve said, why not combine the ATP Cup and Davis Cup into a singular ranking system, not at all awarding any points for ATP singles rankings. Rank the national teams more accurately based on their performances at the events. The only downside would be the gap between the clearly “strong” teams and the “weaker” teams. Obviously the ATP Cup is only bringing in teams where their best singles player is a top ATP player, so those teams would gain significantly more points than teams like, who knows, Cyprus or Tunisia. Those teams probably won’t get to participate in the ATP Cup because they don’t have any known top players at the moment, so they’ll only have to rely on Davis Cup points.

If a ranking system like this did happen, I don’t think it would be a bad idea, but I just think, in a way, the rich would get richer (Serbia, France, etc..) and the poor stay poor.
 

pasta

New User
Players had all of 2019 to qualify to play on their team in this tournament ... What is it so unfair ? if you are ranked out of top 100 - no Grand Slam for you ! If you are ranked outside 50 - no Masters for you ! If you are no top 8 at the end of the year - no ATP Finals for you !

Why is this different ? If you are not top 2 player from the country - no ATP Cup for you !

I like big push from both ATP and ITF to promote tennis as a team sport ... I also like and play in USTA Leagues and do not mind the format, there is something to be said about playing for a team ...

OTH ... ;)
 

James P

Hall of Fame
I have no issues with it being for ranking points, just that it's on the 19th tournament line, because there are boatloads of top 50 players uselessly ineligible (see Rublev, Paire before Pouille dropped out, Carreno Busta, Opelka, Tiafoe, Ramos Vinolas, Mannarino, Querrey, Millman although he did get to play as #3, Verdasco) while there were tons of 100+ that were eligible as #2s of weaker countries.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The reality is that the ATP Cup makes the Davis Cup in its new format redundant.

The Cup is at a better point in the calendar and can attract better players due to the points system.

I think that the sooner the Davis Cup goes back to its home and away format, the better it stems the reputational damage to its product.

Having said that, I think that the Davis Cup should go to a three match but five set format, over two days.

The first day is a singles while the second day is a singles and a doubles, whether dead or not.

Teams of five where the singles players can't play doubles.
 
Last edited:

Fridge

Semi-Pro
I don't like the fact that some really low ranked players are just given the chance to win a "tournament" just because they have one good countryman. See Greece and Georgia
 

Wilsonpro

Rookie
Totally agree about this event awarding ranking points when they've been taken away from Davis Cup and the Olympics!

That said, I did enjoy the ATP Cup but I don't like that it pushed the traditional pre-AO events aside eg. Brisbane, Sydney, Doha and Hopman Cup.
Atp cup will not last more than next year
 

xFedal

Legend
(...) Djokovic's ATP Cup win counts as a career title, while his Davis Cup triumph does not. This has sparked a war of words on social media.

US Davis Cup captain, Mardy Fish, took to Twitter to share his concern regarding the ATP Cup.


Vasek Pospisil, who is part of the ATP Player Council, acknowledged Fish before replying the ranking system is "no longer fair".

The debate prompted a reply by Sergiy Stakhovsky, who resigned from the ATP Player Council last year, criticising the board for "doing whatever they feel like".

Pablo Andujar declared the tournament "a joke", and Australian James Duckworth said it was "absolutely ridiculous".

John Millman, who picked up 70 rankings points and almost $177,000, also believes the point system of the ATP Cup is unfair and has called for equal opportunity for all players to be able to qualify for such a prestigious event.

A world ranking is calculated on a player's best 18 tournaments but a special clause enables those who played in the ATP Cup to add the additional points. And the world No 47 claims the extra countable tournament is wrong, as is the amount of total points.


As things stand, the Davis Cup and ATP Cup appear to be staying in their current formats. It may drive debate amongst players, but money, once again, is the deciding factor.


ATP DOESN'T COUNT AS EXTRA TITLE WIN FOR DJOKOVIC... HE STILL IS ON 77
 

Chadwix

Professional
(...) Djokovic's ATP Cup win counts as a career title, while his Davis Cup triumph does not. This has sparked a war of words on social media.

US Davis Cup captain, Mardy Fish, took to Twitter to share his concern regarding the ATP Cup.


Vasek Pospisil, who is part of the ATP Player Council, acknowledged Fish before replying the ranking system is "no longer fair".

The debate prompted a reply by Sergiy Stakhovsky, who resigned from the ATP Player Council last year, criticising the board for "doing whatever they feel like".

Pablo Andujar declared the tournament "a joke", and Australian James Duckworth said it was "absolutely ridiculous".

John Millman, who picked up 70 rankings points and almost $177,000, also believes the point system of the ATP Cup is unfair and has called for equal opportunity for all players to be able to qualify for such a prestigious event.

A world ranking is calculated on a player's best 18 tournaments but a special clause enables those who played in the ATP Cup to add the additional points. And the world No 47 claims the extra countable tournament is wrong, as is the amount of total points.


As things stand, the Davis Cup and ATP Cup appear to be staying in their current formats. It may drive debate amongst players, but money, once again, is the deciding factor.


Tennis made a very big mistake by allowing atp points for an invitational. Whoever thought this was a good idea should never work in tennis again, goto Wwe or ufc.

Little Norway w like one pro player out of 2 in history took the big US of A out :laughing:
Only in ATP cup
Ya, but i look at your roster and see 0 diversity. You guys may be trying maximize your tennis but the US federation puts tennis 2nd.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The distinguishing characteristic of the event is that it is a team event, so the team is the entity that needs to qualify.

This does not make it an invitational, which suggests mere choice without reference to a strict order of qualification, like the Laver Cup with its three captain's picks.

Tennis made a very big mistake by allowing atp points for an invitational. Whoever thought this was a good idea should never work in tennis again, goto Wwe or ufc.
 
Last edited:

Chadwix

Professional
This does not make it an invitational
If im the third best singles player in spain, im ranked alot higher than some of these players but not allowed to play. Its similar to the olympics (why they cannot give points)

Tennis has two types of events, opens and invitationals. There is no qualifing for the atp cup.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The Olympics is not an ATP event and neither are the slams.

Whether they accord points or not is solely up to the ATP.

They do so for the slams and they did so once with the Olympics.

ATP events, including the Cup, have eligibility rules.

It's just a question of individual versus team eligibility.

If im the third best singles player in spain, im ranked alot higher than some of these players but not allowed to play. Its similar to the olympics (why they cannot give points)

Tennis has two types of events, opens and invitationals. There is no qualifing for the atp cup.
 

Chadwix

Professional
The Olympics is not an ATP event and neither are the slams.

Whether they accord points or not is solely up to the ATP.

They do so for the slams and they did so once with the Olympics.

ATP events, including the Cup, have eligibility rules.

It's just a question of individual versus team eligibility.
Ya the itf. They are called the ATP rankings? They are called atp points??

They do not do this for slams, i like how you slip in misformation :) Slams have qualifiers. Anyone can play in the us open if you win enough pre qualies and pay your entry.

Atp events do not have eligibility rules aside from peds/entry fee.

The best 128 players do not play in the olmypics, much like the best players werent playing in the atp cup. Thus no points or offical prize money.
 

pasta

New User
ATP events do have eligibility rules ... you are a pro and you have to win certain number of matches to get certain number of points ... more matches you win - more points you get ! and then you get rewarded at the end of the year for a good/bad year you've had ... And then you get to compete in these events that basically recognize your year effort.

In the case of ATP Cup - best TEAM won !!!
 

Robert F

Semi-Pro
I thought it was a hit. In the US the access to this on TV was easy and clear. Good matches almost daily and it highlighted doubles in a way that we haven't seen before. Being on the same day compared to the old DC format, made you want to stick around and watch it.

Good spot in the calendar, but being in Australia poses some issues for attendance.

From a fairness perspective, adding a 19th line seems unfair, let it replace one of the other lines fairly.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You don't like team events but this does not make them invitational. There are rules governing qualification based on merit.

The best teams play in the olympics and the atp cup, so if you are a great player in a poor team that is bad luck for you.

The ATP wants a teams events, so you are also the one out of luck. They will be crying all the way to the bank.

Ya the itf. They are called the ATP rankings? They are called atp points??

They do not do this for slams, i like how you slip in misformation :) Slams have qualifiers. Anyone can play in the us open if you win enough pre qualies and pay your entry.

Atp events do not have eligibility rules aside from peds/entry fee.

The best 128 players do not play in the olmypics, much like the best players werent playing in the atp cup. Thus no points or offical prize money.
 
Last edited:

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
It's a veritable orgy of first class tennis if you live in Australia, but the Spanish Davis Cup barely registered here so it might be the same for the ATP Cup elsewhere.

I think it was a hit but I just didn't catch any matches live. Couldn't be bothered.
 

Chadwix

Professional
You don't like team events but this does not make them invitational.
I dont think you understand tournament entry.

American nationalist? I dont like the usta

"The best teams play in the olympics and the atp cup, so if you are a great player in a poor team that is bad luck for you.

The ATP wants a teams events, so you are also the one out of luck. They will be crying all the way to the bank."

My example was a great player on a great team who isnt allowed to play due to the entry system.

I dont like the current ATP, they are putting money above the integrity of the sport . The integrity unit should look into them instead of the guy ranked 450 playing for $500
 

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
I like it and think it should be combined with Davis Cup. Only problem is host nation has such a big advantage.
 

tonylg

Hall of Fame
Here's a question, if the Davis Cup final in Spain was between Australia and Canada, would it have been a sell out .. or an empty stadium?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
It's a team event. If you don't like them go suck eggs.

You are an American nationalist who doesn't like the USTA, so go suck eggs.

I dont think you understand tournament entry.

American nationalist? I dont like the usta

"The best teams play in the olympics and the atp cup, so if you are a great player in a poor team that is bad luck for you.

The ATP wants a teams events, so you are also the one out of luck. They will be crying all the way to the bank."

My example was a great player on a great team who isnt allowed to play due to the entry system.

I dont like the current ATP, they are putting money above the integrity of the sport . The integrity unit should look into them instead of the guy ranked 450 playing for $500
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
This is the downside to having the event at one time and in one place. The traditional Davis Cup avoided this problem.

My assumption is that these events are produced for a global televsion audience more than a home crowd.

And they probably sell out a final before anyone knows who is competing. But then they need to show.

Here's a question, if the Davis Cup final in Spain was between Australia and Canada, would it have been a sell out .. or an empty stadium?
 

Chadwix

Professional
It's a team event. If you don't like them go suck eggs.

You are an American nationalist who doesn't like the USTA, so go suck eggs.
Mixed doubles is a team event, does it award singles pts? I noticed you use alot of "ist's".

I enjoyed the event btw. Give them money but no points. I think thats why they applied points and shows corruption, no one would of played it otherwise. I dont like self promotion by the boss, im sure a graveyist like yourself has no problem with such acts.
 

RelentlessAttack

Professional
You have no argument as to why it is fine for the ATP Finals but not the Cup. The top 8 players versus the top 3-5 times 24? Sound like the Cup is more inclusive, to me.
it just further solidifies the rich get richer attitude that keeps the top of the game very stable and resistant to upsets and young players and players without national backing breaking through that we’ve seen for a while. ATP finals fills a role at the end of the calendar year rewarding people who were the best in that calendar year, and has great history. This event was pulled of a hat to replace Davis cup
 

tonylg

Hall of Fame
This is the downside to having the event at one time and in one place. The traditional Davis Cup avoided this problem.

My assumption is that these events are produced for a global televsion audience more than a home crowd.

And they probably sell out a final before anyone knows who is competing. But then they need to show.
The traditional Davis Cup was far, far superior, but the ATP made the continuation of that format impossible.
 

pasta

New User
It is an ATP event and as such ATP makes the rules regarding the points ...


I personally do not like Basel tournament but it is what it is ...
 

LETitBE

Hall of Fame
I dont think you understand tournament entry.

American nationalist? I dont like the usta

"The best teams play in the olympics and the atp cup, so if you are a great player in a poor team that is bad luck for you.

The ATP wants a teams events, so you are also the one out of luck. They will be crying all the way to the bank."

My example was a great player on a great team who isnt allowed to play due to the entry system.

I dont like the current ATP, they are putting money above the integrity of the sport . The integrity unit should look into them instead of the guy ranked 450 playing for $500
its all about bums on seats
 
Top