Is the Bosworth racquet simply an old discontinued racquet that he couldnt sell?

[The Pusher Terminator]

Is Bosworth really trying to get rid of a bunch of old racquets that he couldnt sell and now repackages for $400 bucks? Bosworth came out with the decagon frame a long long time ago. Brad Gilbert played with it during the 80's. In fact you can still buy the discontinued racquets from www.playfox.com . The racquet was designed by Bosworth and sold by Fox. Later on they were not selling anymore and were therefore discontinued. I wonder if Bosworth was stuck with a crapload of old frames and has now decided to "repackage" them for a very high price. Any opinions?

 

[andfor]

Interesting find. Not sure about the answer to your question. If you can actually buy them it's pretty funny.

You got something to say to me, don't you?

 

[The Pusher Terminator]

yes I do:

I just did a little research and I think I have the answer. The one that Fox sells is pretty much the same racquet. Bosworth claims he customizes the racquet but i dont believ him. There are at least two different Bosworth frames ...the fox 210 and the fox 210 sm. The only difference is the head size....90 inches and 96 inches respectively. The one that Martina uses is the exact same racquet as the Fox 210 SM. How do I know this you may ask? Well I clled Fox and they informed me that the Fox 210 SM is what Navratilova actually uses but that they do not have any SM's for sale. Why would fox tell me this if they didnt have any for sale? Its clearly a statement against their interest! They have no reason to lie....therefor i think that if you can get your hands on the Fox 210 SM you will be playing with a $400 dollar racquet for half the price!

 

[Marius_Hancu]

Bosworth's making lots of racquets, including fully custom, depends which model ...

 

[georgeyew]

Last Christmas season, they had the Fox Target 210s for 50% off. I don't know why they are not doing that this year. I was tempted to get a few at the sale price, but didn't.

 

[mctennis]

For some reason I think they are still 50% off. I thought I saw that on their site. I would hope they aren't models made in the 80's sitting in a warehouse. Of course in that era the racquets were very well made compared to what is made ( for the most part) today.

 

[andfor]

yes I do:

I just did a little research and I think I have the answer. The one that Fox sells is pretty much the same racquet. Bosworth claims he customizes the racquet but i dont believ him. There are at least two different Bosworth frames ...the fox 210 and the fox 210 sm. The only difference is the head size....90 inches and 96 inches respectively. The one that Martina uses is the exact same racquet as the Fox 210 SM. How do I know this you may ask? Well I clled Fox and they informed me that the Fox 210 SM is what Navratilova actually uses but that they do not have any SM's for sale. Why would fox tell me this if they didnt have any for sale? Its clearly a statement against their interest! They have no reason to lie....therefor i think that if you can get your hands on the Fox 210 SM you will be playing with a $400 dollar racquet for half the price!

Interesting response but a dodge non-the-less.

 

[vantagepoint]

Actually I do not understand the Pusher Terminator's response. The only knowledge I have about this is from a long conversation with Bosworth, followed by several emails. What I heard accords with what Marius Hancu said. Warren Bosworth indicated that he customizes many aspects of the frame, except for the head size, which stays at 96 si. Handle shape/type, balance and weight are apparently all custom-fit to the specs worked out between Bosworth and the client. They send out a long questionnaire as well which is very specific. I did not go forward, because the cost of two such frames is too much for my current level of interest in playing the game (I can find cheaper solutions to meet my needs).

Still, it sounds like the OP has a beef with Bosworth. If so, why not take it up with him personally? I called them out of the blue and Warren Bosworth was put on the line almost immediately. Otherwise, it's slamming his work with little basis, imo.

 

[The Pusher Terminator]

Actually I do not understand the Pusher Terminator's response. The only knowledge I have about this is from a long conversation with Bosworth, followed by several emails. What I heard accords with what Marius Hancu said. Warren Bosworth indicated that he customizes many aspects of the frame, except for the head size, which stays at 96 si. Handle shape/type, balance and weight are apparently all custom-fit to the specs worked out between Bosworth and the client. They send out a long questionnaire as well which is very specific. I did not go forward, because the cost of two such frames is too much for my current level of interest in playing the game (I can find cheaper solutions to meet my needs).

Still, it sounds like the OP has a beef with Bosworth. If so, why not take it up with him personally? I called them out of the blue and Warren Bosworth was put on the line almost immediately. Otherwise, it's slamming his work with little basis, imo.

I have absolutely no beef with Bosworth at all. I don't know the man and I have never bought a racquet from him. All I did was get a little suspicious. Therefore I did a little detective work and called Fox. They told me that Navrataliova is actually playing with the 210 SM which Fox does not sell. I did not know whether or not to believe them, but since this was a statement against their interest I chose to believe them. Why would they tell me something like that if they could not make any money off of it? They seem quite credible and I believe them...but please dont take my word for it.....give them a call for yourself. I would call Bosworth as well....but unlike Fox he has every reason to lie. Assuming, only for arguments sake, Bosworth was simply repackaging the 210 SM...well then he would never admit something like that. On the other hand what does Fox have to gain? They dont have any 210 SM's to sell to you. Why would they lie?

 

[vantagepoint]

In my conversation with Warren B, he indicated they basically take a shell/template, the head and then build the racquet around that...including having access to the head so as to insert or add weight to it in some fashion (or perhaps inside the handle). So unless he does not do that and just ships a standard frame - the same one as the site you mentioned sells - then the information they gave you is incorrect. The proof to me that customization is part of the deal is in the questionaire sent out after you make contact. If that is all bluff, then I would think pissed-off customers would have 'outed' him long ago.

 

[The Pusher Terminator]

In my conversation with Warren B, he indicated they basically take a shell/template, the head and then build the racquet around that...including having access to the head so as to insert or add weight to it in some fashion (or perhaps inside the handle). So unless he does not do that and just ships a standard frame - the same one as the site you mentioned sells - then the information they gave you is incorrect. The proof to me that customization is part of the deal is in the questionaire sent out after you make contact. If that is all bluff, then I would think pissed-off customers would have 'outed' him long ago.

How do you know thats true? I bet that "shell" you are refering to is simply an old 210 sm with a paint job.

As to the questionare....well that really does not prove anything. Lets just say for arguments sake that Bosworth is running a scam. Wouldnt he then come up with a "questionare" and then say "give me 400 bucks for this customized racquet made perfect for you". Now dont get me wrong...I do believe that he customizes the racquet. But I believe that the "shell" that he is customizing is an old 210 SM that he could not get rid of. Save yourself some money and just send your Wilson Ncode to Bosworth to customize!

As to customers being pissed off....well in the 70's they sold a "pet rock" to people. I am serious! It was simply a rock packaged in a box. It came with instructions on how to feed and care for your "pet rock". They made millions. Tennis fans are even more gullible. Do you know why they used to have autographed racquets. Its because in the days of wood all the racquets were basically the same....so they would put a paint job on it and have Jack Kramer autograph it....but it was virtually the same as any other wodden racquet of the day. We get fooled all of the time! I am not even sure that this Ncode technology is for real...I mean Ncode technology has not been perfected in anything...why would it be perfected in only tennis racquets? Or how about that Head racquet that claimed to have a computer chip in it that would enable all kinds of stuff!...now that was really funny! Anyway, i digress...the point is people can be easily fooled that they are playing with a a brand new racquet. You would never know that you are actually playing with a racquet from the 70's...more specifically the old Fox 210 SM...LOL!

 

[Vantage231511]

First, last year Fox was willing to sell old stock off for $50 per frame, and I remember there was a post here where one of the dudes on this site talked to Fox about it and suddenly they upped their price!

The Bosworth is NOT the same as the Fox, although since Warren B. designed and patented the octagonal head he is still using it. Bosworth does a full custom job. Grips are actually molded to the person's hand preference. Weight is added in a process that is proprietary to Mr. B, but is unique (I know the process but in fairness to Warren and Jay won't discuss it here).

If you buy from Bosworth, you are not getting anything even close to the Fox frames.

Now, having said that, the Fox frames play pretty darn good and it is a way to have a Bosworth designed frame at a fraction of the cost. But don't confuse off the shelf with Bosworth Custom.

Also, the Bosworth Fox frames are at least a decade old. So, even though they are new, there may be some degredation in play just because of poor storage and warehouse movements.

 

[The Pusher Terminator]

You may be right...but I am a little suspicious of your answer. Why do you call him Warren? And who is Jay? Do you know these guys very well? It sounds like you know a little too much for someone who claims to have had only one conversation with "Warren" and a few follow up emails. Whats even more astounding is that you also claim that you do not own a Bosworth racquet! I find it strange thate even though you were not accused of anything you stated that you only had one conversation with Mr. Bosworth and that you do not even own a Bosworth racquet. Why would you bring that up? .You also claim that the 210 SM is a great frame...how do you know? No one can even find one of these sticks! You refer to Mr. Bosworth as "Warren" and talk about some associate of his:"Jay" (whoever he is?). You seem to know about the entire manufacuting process....whats really going on here?

On a second point: FOX DOES NOT SELL THE 210 SM!!! They only have the 210. But if you know where I can get my hands on the 210 SM I would jump on it....does your friend "Warren" have any in stock?...hint, hint, wink, wink....LOL

Finally, I am not saying that I know for sure what Bosworth is doing. I am just saying what Fox is saying about Bosworth. You may choose to discard them.. ..but they seem credible to me as they do not sell the racquet. That being said, I hope Bosworth is NOT simply repackaging the 210 SM because I would love to buy one!!! I guess the only way to really tell is to set Bosworth up. Two different people would have to fill out two completely different questionares.....then we would have to see if they received two completely different racquets.

 

[danix]

Pusher, if you're that excited about it, buy one of each and do a full test on them. I really don't think this is worth yelling about. Vantage's reply was very clear and obviously he has been in the business for a while.

Hardly any pros play with off-the-shelf frames, so it's natural that Martina's is customized, even if the Fox frame is the starting point.

Regardless of price, his point about the aging of the frames is probably the main reason not to "invest" in a leftover Fox frame.

 

[vantagepoint]

I am not Vantage with the numbers, I am someone else. I don't represent Warren Bosworth, nor are we friends. I think Jay is his son, but am not even sure of that. I did speak to him on the phone once, he was very nice and interesting to speak with, and told me some stories that showed he does care about his clients. His approach to customer relations was 'old-school' and I appreciated it. Sounds to me like you've taken it upon yourself to damage his rep without any real knowledge, which is a shame.

P.S. What Bosworth told me over the phone is consistent with what Vantage-with-the-numbers said.

 

[Vantage231511]

Pushie,

First, if you are or have been a USPTA member for the past decade or two, you would have met Warren and Jay (yes his son) at several of the annual conferences. Mr. B. has presented there a couple of times.

As for the Fox, I remember from the old days that there were two different versions. I am familiar with what is on the Fox website and since I once owned the Fox Dynamite (like Yonex but several years earlier) I can tell you the quality of the frames.

I also happen to have some ties to the plastics industry. There is a plastic supplier who has on their website that they sell different mass grommet strips to Bosworth. Its outlined very well.

I also thought about buying a couple of Boz's, and did my research.

 

[The Pusher Terminator]

Pushie,

First, if you are or have been a USPTA member for the past decade or two, you would have met Warren and Jay (yes his son) at several of the annual conferences. Mr. B. has presented there a couple of times.

As for the Fox, I remember from the old days that there were two different versions. I am familiar with what is on the Fox website and since I once owned the Fox Dynamite (like Yonex but several years earlier) I can tell you the quality of the frames.

I also happen to have some ties to the plastics industry. There is a plastic supplier who has on their website that they sell different mass grommet strips to Bosworth. Its outlined very well.

I also thought about buying a couple of Boz's, and did my research.

Vanty (with numbers),

Look i dont want to give you a hard time. Lets assume arguendo that Bosworth is taking an old 210 SM and then customizing it...well then thats worth $400 bucks in my book. But I just would like to know if thats true. Furthermore I would also like to know if he is really significantly customizing. Are there any Bosworth owners on this site that can describe their specs to us? That way we can tell if there are any real differences between the racquets thus proving any siginificant customization.

Mr. Vantage without numbers and others : I have said absolutely nothing derogatory about Bosworth. I am simply repeating what Fox has told me. If you have a beef its with Fox and not me! Dont kill the messenger!

Danix, I agree with you that Vantage with numbers has obviusly been in the business for a long time. He seems to know Bosworth very well which does make me suspicious. As to asking me to buy two Bosworth frames , i think thats a great idea! Please make your check payable to the Pusher terminator.....lol.

 

[Tim Tennis]

Interesting, one of my very good loyal customers informed me that Boswell was "maybe infringing" on my patent with his asymetrical handle that he made for Martina. I went to his site and found a photo of the racquet that he supposedly modifies for Martina but interestingly enough it did not show the handle. I would like to see just what shape the handle has. Hey, I hope it does look like the Wonder Wedge. Hell, you can modify your own racquets for only $10.00 ea with the WW.

www.tennisgeometrics.com

 

[Vantage231511]

I have talked to the people at Fox over the years (most of whom no longer work there) and did talk to the Bosworths when I was considering a custom frame. I remember a conversation where it was mentioned (I think by Warren) that after his contract and affiliation with Fox expired they were still producing new frames and using his name on them (other then those he designed and other then leftover stock from his days with them) and he had to have them stop doing so.

As for their frames, they are not leftover stock. I believe it was a Fox exec who told me that ALL old Boz stock was their property and that they still had quite a bit in the warehouse.

Like I said, Bosworth has a unique grommet system that he uses to customize weight and balance. I don't have any clue as to how many base frames he makes at a time.

 

[The Pusher Terminator]

Interesting, one of my very good loyal customers informed me that Boswell was "maybe infringing" on my patent with his asymetrical handle that he made for Martina. I went to his site and found a photo of the racquet that he supposedly modifies for Martina but interestingly enough it did not show the handle. I would like to see just what shape the handle has. Hey, I hope it does look like the Wonder Wedge. Hell, you can modify your own racquets for only $10.00 ea with the WW.

www.tennisgeometrics.com

The wedge is actually an incredible tool. I have attatched it to my grips and it has changed everything. All my shots are "powered up". In a recent Tennis magazine article, it was stated that the shape of your grip may be of more importance than your racquet or your strings. You have go to try it!

 

[Ronaldo]

Not sure how much more weight Bosworth can add to the WB-210. Have a NEW Composite WB-210 and it weighs 13.3 oz UNSTRUNG!

 

[The Pusher Terminator]

Not sure how much more weight Bosworth can add to the WB-210. Have a NEW Composite WB-210 and it weighs 13.3 oz UNSTRUNG!

If you are refering to the wedge....it doesnt weigh really anything. its a piece of foam.

How do you like that 210?

 

[Ronaldo]

Never used it, still has the plastic over the leather grip.

 

[The Pusher Terminator]

Never used it, still has the plastic over the leather grip.

Damn! Thats sorta like keeping a ferari in the garage. Come on man...break it out! I really dont think it will ever be a collectors piece.

 

[Attila the tennis Bum]

I was doing a search on Bosworth and found this old post.

According to this post Fox sports says that the current Bosworth for $300bucks is the exact same racquet as the Bosworth 210 S which is on sale here at TW for $49.99!