Is the "ultra grinding" era over in men's tennis?

cluckcluck

Hall of Fame
No..have you seen Rublev...dude is a young version of Davydenko...same body type..and just camps out on the baseline..
Most of the middle tier guys camp on the baseline. I notice, that almost all ATP lacks variety these days.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
No..have you seen Rublev...dude is a young version of Davydenko...same body type..and just camps out on the baseline..
I'm not saying nobody grinds anymore. What I'm saying is that "ultra grinding" affairs that just seem to go on endlessly don't happen very often, if at all anymore.

And even more than that, we don't see back to back (to back, etc) performances like this. If you see somebody grind out a match for hours these days, they are almost always too spent to play the next round. That wasn't always the case I'd argue.

So my question is, why?

I'd also argue that we are seeing more injuries these days than in the recent past.
 

Jontyg

Rookie
I'm not saying nobody grinds anymore. What I'm saying is that "ultra grinding" affairs that just seem to go on endlessly don't happen very often, if at all anymore.

And even more than that, we don't see back to back (to back, etc) performances like this. If you see somebody grind out a match for hours these days, they are almost always too spent to play the next round. That wasn't always the case I'd argue.

So my question is, why?

I'd also argue that we are seeing more injuries these days than in the recent past.
In one of his interviews..Federer also lamented this demise of agressive tennis..i.e. approach the net more..he felt that the young guys just get “comfortable” from the baseline and the coaches don’t coach them to come to the net...he said thats one of the reason for the young guys not to break through at the slams...as he saw it..it would be impossible for a 20 or a 21 year old to go baseline to baseline against a DJ, or nadal or Andy...
 

Boom-Boom

Hall of Fame
I'm not saying nobody grinds anymore. What I'm saying is that "ultra grinding" affairs that just seem to go on endlessly don't happen very often, if at all anymore.

And even more than that, we don't see back to back (to back, etc) performances like this. If you see somebody grind out a match for hours these days, they are almost always too spent to play the next round. That wasn't always the case I'd argue.

So my question is, why?

I'd also argue that we are seeing more injuries these days than in the recent past.
maybe more anti-doping controls...at least?!

thank god no more EPOesque ultra grinding
 

Hmgraphite1

Hall of Fame
I'm not saying nobody grinds anymore. What I'm saying is that "ultra grinding" affairs that just seem to go on endlessly don't happen very often, if at all anymore.

And even more than that, we don't see back to back (to back, etc) performances like this. If you see somebody grind out a match for hours these days, they are almost always too spent to play the next round. That wasn't always the case I'd argue.

So my question is, why?

I'd also argue that we are seeing more injuries these days than in the recent past.
ATP could pass law that Simon not allowed to retire until a replacement is found.
 

cluckcluck

Hall of Fame
Wonder why...maybe it’s a lot easier when you are young to play baseline tennis...the only young guy who seems very agressive is Shapo..
I'm pretty sure it's coaching. Since these kids were just young pups when Nadal started getting the spotlight, so the coaching changed from "all court tennis" to "baseline grind".
I'm fairly certain that volleying and the art of chip-and-charge aren't taught as much as before (before meaning early 2000's).
 

Jontyg

Rookie
I'm pretty sure it's coaching. Since these kids were just young pups when Nadal started getting the spotlight, so the coaching changed from "all court tennis" to "baseline grind".
I'm fairly certain that volleying and the art of chip-and-charge aren't taught as much as before (before meaning early 2000's).
Also..i think young guys get discouraged if they get passed at the net..I remember Martina gave an Interview once where she said “ If I don’t get passed at least 15 times..I know that I am not coming to the net enough”...it requires some big cajones to keep coming to net..even if you get passed often..
 

smoledman

G.O.A.T.
Chung wants to be a grinder, but his feet are already sending him messages - NO. So I think even Chung will learn to become more aggressive soon and we'll have no more uber-grinders on tour in the top 30. Rafa will be the last holdout.
 

cluckcluck

Hall of Fame
Also..i think young guys get discouraged if they get passed at the net..I remember Martina gave an Interview once where she said “ If I don’t get passed at least 15 times..I know that I am not coming to the net enough”...it requires some big cajones to keep coming to net..even if you get passed often..
That's actually a good mantra, "If I don't get passed at least 15 times...I know that I am not coming to net enough."
But I do see your point, sadly we're in a time where everybody gets a "participation" trophy. And this is making the next generation of players to not get close to the net, unless they absolutely have to.
 

Jontyg

Rookie
They were. But they haven't been effective for a while now. Is it just age? Because their performance seemed to decline almost literally overnight.
I think Ferrer is the most consistent non-grand slam winner..for such a grinding game..he has been relatively healthy through his career..
 

Jontyg

Rookie
That's actually a good mantra, "If I don't get passed at least 15 times...I know that I am not coming to net enough."
But I do see your point, sadly we're in a time where everybody gets a "participation" trophy. And this is making the next generation of players to not get close to the net, unless they absolutely have to.
Hey maybe Fed will get into coaching and start a net-game revival.. ;)..i would hate for him to disapper like Pete
 

Jontyg

Rookie
Ferrer and Simon are. Rublev wants to finish points early and ofte goes for too much. No net game though
Not so sure man..evertime I watch him..my body aches..todays game against Pospisil..there were so many points where he hit deep into the court to his BH..and could have finished the point by coming in..but no..stayed back and lost the TB in the first set..
 

vex

Hall of Fame
That's my theory
Quite a theory. So... Andy, Djoker and Rafa - the epic grinders you're referencing without naming were all doping but now they're not so .... they're injured(?) BUT the world #1 37-year old is simultaneously clean as a whistle.

Cool theory bro
 

smoledman

G.O.A.T.
The latter half of 2016 witnesses the worst amount of grinding I've ever seen. Only Stan 'The Man' saved tennis in the period from being utterly dominated by the grinders. Of course both Mugray and Djoker paid the ultimate price for their arrogant grinding - early retirement.
 

sportmac

Hall of Fame
I'm pretty sure it's coaching. Since these kids were just young pups when Nadal started getting the spotlight, so the coaching changed from "all court tennis" to "baseline grind".
I'm fairly certain that volleying and the art of chip-and-charge aren't taught as much as before (before meaning early 2000's).
I agree with that. I attend a lot of junior tournaments and events. I've seen drills where they're teaching them to backpedal into the backhand side of the court to hit forehands. I don't recall seeing any slice followed by coming to the net drills (that doesn't mean it's not done, just that I've not seen it).
 

sportmac

Hall of Fame
Coric was hitting some Peakovic laser backhands against Fedr the other day though. I wonder if that's a new feature of his game. If he can continue hitting the BH like that, watch out!
I like Coric. I think he's got one of the more balanced games out there.
 

WhiskeyEE

Legend
You have to be an A+ athlete to succeed with that style. And A+ athletes stopped choosing to play tennis. Murray-Djokovic-Nadal was the last generation that did.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
We might be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and should be hoping that it is not a freight train.

At least on HC and Grass.

Clay has been always a kind of grinders' paradise, and, IMO, should remain that way.

:cool:
 
I agree with that. I attend a lot of junior tournaments and events. I've seen drills where they're teaching them to backpedal into the backhand side of the court to hit forehands. I don't recall seeing any slice followed by coming to the net drills (that doesn't mean it's not done, just that I've not seen it).
Maybe that is changing (or it depends on which coach/which part of the world) but I see this coach who is working with top ranked national juniors doing slice drills. I saw him do it with kids who must have been 14 or thereabouts and the other day with a much younger kid, maybe no more than 10 and the kid was already hitting beautiful slice. I have been crying hoarse about the lack of slice drills and it seems that finally coaches, at least some of them, are changing their approach. Even some of the pros who weren't earlier wont to using slice have started doing it (eg Azarenka in the Keys match). But these are older players who have probably realised they save effort by not going for the double hander every time. The young ones like Rublev are more likely to enjoy ball bashing, unfortunately. And Rublev can hit a slice, just doesn't want to.
 

okdude1992

Hall of Fame
No..have you seen Rublev...dude is a young version of Davydenko...same body type..and just camps out on the baseline..
What? Rublev is a mindless ball basher. Not a grinder

Zverev, Coric, and Chung like to grind. But not to the extent of Nadal/Djokovic/Murrray
 

smoledman

G.O.A.T.
What? Rublev is a mindless ball basher. Not a grinder

Zverev, Coric, and Chung like to grind. But not to the extent of Nadal/Djokovic/Murrray
Agreed. I believe the ultra-grinding era is over. Even Rafa doesn't like to grind like he used to. But the damage is done with all the slams won by Nadal, Djokovic and Murray with that style.
 
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