is the use of gravity in the modern FH loop a myth?

[dominikk1985]

While there are some players who use a high loop and then swing down fast like a rollercoaster using the gravity I feel that the "modern FHs" of nadal and federer don't really use gravity. the will have a small loop in lifting the racket but instead of swinging down they will usually lower the racket quite slowly during the pat the dog phase and only then lay the wrist back and accelerate.

I know it is slow motion but it looks like he is not really accelerating down but instead drops the arm and racket as a unit quite slowly and then accelerates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhvKafCYsk

do you think that is accurate?

here is a live speed. it still looks like he is dropping his arm slower than gravity before he accelerates

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg

 

[LeeD]

Now here is where talking theory supersedes actual tennis play.
Gravity exists, can't be forgotten, so needs to be regarded.
More important, is whether the loop forehand and backhand works for YOU, compared to a straight takeback.

 

[5263]

While there are some players who use a high loop and then swing down fast like a rollercoaster using the gravity I feel that the "modern FHs" of nadal and federer don't really use gravity. the will have a small loop in lifting the racket but instead of swinging down they will usually lower the racket quite slowly during the pat the dog phase and only then lay the wrist back and accelerate.

I know it is slow motion but it looks like he is not really accelerating down but instead drops the arm and racket as a unit quite slowly and then accelerates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhvKafCYsk

do you think that is accurate?

here is a live speed. it still looks like he is dropping his arm slower than gravity before he accelerates

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg

Maybe I don't get your point, but they definitely work with gravity to lower
the stick on the backswing.
I would agree they don't use gravity to accel the stick, as like you say, it
is not normally time for that yet unless they are rushed.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Not a myth for me (or my students) even tho' I do not usually use a super-high takeback. Let the forearm/arm relax as the racket head drops. Then use the gravity-assist at the bottom of the loop to redirect the arm and racket to start the forward swing. (If you are not relaxed, then you may not be deriving the gravity-assist benefit).

Most of us also use the gravity-assist (and momentum) on the racket head drop after the trophy. Again, if you are relaxed, then gravity can be your friend.

 

[suryanaga]

Even with a high loop, almost all of the racquet head speed is generated through the body of the player. Gravity is constant and affects every motion. If the "loop" that you are referring to is the action of dropping the racquet head in between the racquet take-back and the actual forward swing, it is used for preparation, not specifically for the acceleration of the ball.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

^ When you lift the racket up for the upper part of the loop, we are working against gravity to develop more potential energy for the arm/racket system. If we let gravity assist on the down phase of the loop, by relaxing the forearm/arm somewhat, we can more easily start to generate more kinetic energy for the rest of the loop (including the forward swing to contact).

Sure, the RHS or power delivered by the arm/racket is a result of the kinetic chain employed by the body. The relaxation that employs the gravity-assist that I speak of yields a kinetic chain that is more relaxed and is more effiicient (and effective).

 

[suryanaga]

^ When you lift the racket up for the upper part of the loop, we are working against gravity to develop more potential energy for the arm/racket system. If we let gravity assist on the down phase of the loop, by relaxing the forearm/arm somewhat, we can more easily start to generate more kinetic energy for the rest of the loop (including the forward swing to contact).

Sure, the RHS or power delivered by the arm/racket is a result of the kinetic chain employed by the body. The relaxation that employs the gravity-assist that I speak of yields a kinetic chain that is more relaxed and is more effiicient (and effective).

Of course we don't force down the racquet when we drop our arm for the loop, I definitely agree with you, I was just addressing OP's theory that gravity plays a large part in providing acceleration for ball contact.

 

[dominikk1985]

^ When you lift the racket up for the upper part of the loop, we are working against gravity to develop more potential energy for the arm/racket system. If we let gravity assist on the down phase of the loop, by relaxing the forearm/arm somewhat, we can more easily start to generate more kinetic energy for the rest of the loop (including the forward swing to contact).

Sure, the RHS or power delivered by the arm/racket is a result of the kinetic chain employed by the body. The relaxation that employs the gravity-assist that I speak of yields a kinetic chain that is more relaxed and is more effiicient (and effective).

it depends on whether the player really lets the arm drop freely or whether he "guides" his arm down slowly to set up the stroke.

 

[Cheetah]

plus 1 on the LeeD post

 

[Shroud]

Now here is where talking theory supersedes actual tennis play.
Gravity exists, can't be forgotten, so needs to be regarded.
More important, is whether the loop forehand and backhand works for YOU, compared to a straight takeback.

With the cheetah too!

If you recall Leed, I picked our hitting session to try a straight takeback on the forehand. It always ended up being a wta takeback.

Loop works better for me on the forehand and YES there is a gravity component though it is controlled.

Backhand not so much.

 

[LeeD]

Yeah, you did mention that.
I just assumed it was a smart play. I also tend to straighten my takeback when I NEED to play more consistent, while the loop gives me loose and easy power.
I always mentioned the two German girls with the best WTA forehands of their time. Steffi and Anke. Steffi had the loop forehand. Anke took it straight back and down, pat the dog. Both had great forehands.

 

[RetroSpin]

I think the OP is at least partially correct. He said they don't accelerate in the downswing, which is clearly correct. they accelerate only at the bottom when they lay the racquet head back. Of course, they do use gravity in the loop phase. It's just that they use it to get into the power position. they don't use it to power the stroke.