Is there a difference(s) between the ATP 2hbh and the WTA 2hbh?

[thomasferrett]

You hear talk of ATP forehand vs WTA forehand. There are differences there in use of stretch-shortening cycle, more racket-head lag, more active wrist through contact, pat-the-dog 'pre-pronation' motion in the backswing, more pronation in the followthrough...etc...

Are there any significant differences between how the pro men and pro women hit 2hbh's, on average?

 

[Topspin Shot]

Actually, yes. The men tend to hit with a straight left arm and have more of a stretch shortening cycle in their left forearm. The women tend to hit with both arms bent.

 

[rkelley]

Actually, yes. The men tend to hit with a straight left arm and have more of a stretch shortening cycle in their left forearm. The women tend to hit with both arms bent.

I agree with the first point. A majority of the men hit straight/bent (at contact, non-dom/dom). A few hit straight/straight, and there have been a few who hit bent/bent. The majority of the women seem to hit bent/bent. A few hit straight bent. I don't know of any women who hit straight/straight, but there's probably someone.

I don't know about the second point on stretch shortening and what seems to be implied with that. No matter your gender or your arm configuration pros are creating a lot of rhs. The women, like the men, are hitting the crude out of the ball off their groundies. I don't see how to do that unless the player gets their hands out in front and whips the racquet to one degree or another.

I also don't know how much stretch shortening is going on in a pro bh in the forearm. Curious on others thoughts on this, but I think of the left wrist more as a hinge like on the fh. The big difference between the fh and bh is that I have the dominant arm on the end of the handle on the bh so I can use it to help whip the racquet into the ball at contact. But that's a pulling action mostly of the dominant arm. I generally try not to carry a lot stiffness in the wrists and forearms on the bh unless I'm in a bit of trouble and blocking back a bunch of pace, or a serve return.

 

[WildVolley]

Among the top men, only Ferrer seems to hit WTA-style with the bent-bent arm structure.

In general, the ATP 2hbh style is straight (top hand) bent (bottom hand) at contact.

 

[Lukhas]

Tennis Oxygen had released a video on the subject. Which isn't available anymore for ahem, reasons. From what I remember, it had emphasis on a bigger, loopier takeback for women and a more over the shoulder/near the head finish. Men had a shorter takeback that is more sideways rather than behind the body, pointing the racquet behind (towards the back fence) during the takeback instead of upwards, more core usage and a more sideway finish rather than over the shoulder/close to the head.

That's what I remember.

 

[heninfan99]

http://www.procomparetennis.net/media/sequence_images/640/unuu1234624271.jpg

 

[heninfan99]

http://www.procomparetennis.net/media/sequence_images/640/mnyw1298761505.jpg

 

[heninfan99]

The difference? About 20 mph. HA. But I think Lukhas is right, some subtle differences.

 

[thomasferrett]

But unlike the difference between wta and atp forehands, I don't see any pre-contact pronation on the atp 2hbh...;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqei7x_lVDE#t=69

Prep phase looks the same to me, in that racket strings are pointing towards the side fences at the back-swing, instead of pointing towards the ground and sky as would happen in the pat-the-dog motion of an atp forehand that is using pre-contact pronation...

So the only real difference between atp and wta 2hbh is hitting arm structure configuration, where most women use a bent/bent swing, and most men use a straight/bent swing? That's not really a fundamental difference is it? Just a preference thing?

 

[robok9]

Typically (in most cases), it seems the WTA players have a more linear take-back, whereas the ATP players do more of a looped backswing.

 

[thomasferrett]

Typically (in most cases), it seems the WTA players have a more linear take-back, whereas the ATP players do more of a looped backswing.

I kinda thought it was the opposite - women have a loopier take-back on both wings.

Compare the take-back of Sharapova's backhand compared to Gulbis's for example...

 

[julian]

Both wings

I kinda thought it was the opposite - women have a loopier take-back on both wings.

Compare the take-back of Sharapova's backhand compared to Gulbis's for example...

You should think twice whether Gulbis is the best example of an ATP player.
My advice is to read your posts before you post them.

 

[julian]

A trick question for you

Actually, yes. The men tend to hit with a straight left arm and have more of a stretch shortening cycle in their left forearm. The women tend to hit with both arms bent.

SSC is sometimes translated as:
1.stretch shortening cycle
or
2.shortening stretch cycle

Which one is used for a left/non dominant hand for backhand?

 

[TennisCJC]

Shara vs Djoko comparison above is pretty cool. Shara's swing looks just a wee bit higher on the prep and she has a couple of inches more bend in her L arm as she comes into contact. They are almost identical in the photo that shows the racket head at full extension pointing toward the opposite fence - L arm is straight, R arm bending into follow thru. Good sequence and these are 2 of the best 2HBHs out there.

 

[rkelley]

So the only real difference between atp and wta 2hbh is hitting arm structure configuration, where most women use a bent/bent swing, and most men use a straight/bent swing? That's not really a fundamental difference is it? Just a preference thing?

I think it's more than just a preference thing. I think the arm structure at contact affects how the arms are used to create power. Yandell has talked about this. His thinking is that the bent/bent is more left arm dominated, almost a total left handed fh. Straight/bent is still a lot of left arm, but not as much as bent/bent. I'd add that there's an important role for the right arm in creating power in straight/bent (not sure if Yandell agrees with this idea). Anyway, I think he's on to something there.

The hands are also closer to the body at contact with the bent/bent (as is the contact point itself). I think it's just a consequence of the left arm being bent. Look at the Djokovic and Sharapova pictures.

In either case the hands get out in front and drag the racquet head into contact. You can hit the ball hard with either arm configuration.

 

[sureshs]

His thinking is that the bent/bent is more left arm dominated, almost a total left handed fh.

Women are supposedly more ambidextrous. Could it be a reason for this?

 

[5263]

In either case the hands get out in front and drag the racquet head into contact. You can hit the ball hard with either arm configuration.

Very key!....

 

[WildVolley]

You should think twice whether Gulbis is the best example of an ATP player.
My advice is to read your posts before you post them.

Gulbis has one of the best 2hbhs on the men's tour and hits straight bent at contact.

Why wouldn't you consider the Gulbis bh a good example of an ATP 2hbh?