Is there a more lucky tiebreak win than Nadal Zverev 2022 first set?

T

toth

Hall of Fame
Zverev had 6:2 lead.
Nadal served an ace ; 6:3

Zverev big serve, he goes to the net, it is in his hand; miss a bit -6:4

Zverev big serve than big angled forehand, opened court attak the net, Nadal bravoruos fh passing winner. I think if Zverev attak the other side he wins the point, it was in his hand. 6:5

Nadal serve, long rally, Nadal drop shot, Zverev at the net, it is again in his hand, miss. 6:6

THank you for your answer
Toth
 
A guy not being clutch enough in the big moments to play the correct shot does not make the other guy any more lucky than someone who is the benefit of half a dozen unforced errors.

There are many, many tiebreakers you could put down to luck, if you want to be so reductive. How about Hubie coughing up the minibreak only to be gifted it back with a double fault just last night?

But yes, Zverev going into Nadal's forehand when he had the whole court open was hilarious. :D
 
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ibbi said:
Not sure how the nailing of both those forehands can be dismissed as the most lucky thing that ever happened.
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Of cource Nadal had the best passing shots ever.
But at 6:4 Zverev could win the point playing behind Nadal, i think, we will never be sure.
 
toth said:
Of cource Nadal had the best passing shots ever.
But at 6:4 Zverev could win the point playing behind Nadal, i think, we will never be sure.
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Well, of course, but again, if someone is just hitting unforced errors then the beneficiary is luckier than someone who is given the opportunity, as Nadal was, but actually has to still execute the shots.
 
Barton said:
I really wonder how long that match would have lasted if Zverev didn't get injured. Brutal conditions for them to play.
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Something would physically give, I think. Dunno who, or how.

That was probably the most grueling match I've ever seen, and I've seen a LOT of grueling clay matches. Heat-wise/humidity-wise, it was like tropical conditions, but also slower and grindier. Of course the play styles involved were a factor too.
 
When it comes to moments of finishing a set or match against Any of the big 3 - you need to pick the right shot to go aggressive on.
Tensing up is something you can see happen in many of those folks when trying to beat nadal/fed/Djoko
 
toth said:
Zverev had 6:2 lead.
Nadal served an ace ; 6:3

Zverev big serve, he goes to the net, it is in his hand; miss a bit -6:4

Zverev big serve than big angled forehand, opened court attak the net, Nadal bravoruos fh passing winner. I think if Zverev attak the other side he wins the point, it was in his hand. 6:5

Nadal serve, long rally, Nadal drop shot, Zverev at the net, it is again in his hand, miss. 6:6

THank you for your answer
Toth
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that volley miss from zverev on setpoint is similar to roddicks volley miss against federer at wim 2009 final. both are not good at net, know it, and so play even worse at net at important points.
 
It's just Zverev being Zverev. If anything this tells that he was NEVER going to win that match. Closed roof, extreme humidity clay court in the summer? That's the perfect recipe of a grindfeast and i would pick a random top 200 instead of Zverev to win such a match.
 
Honestly as far as just the breaker Zverev only messed up the volley at 6-3 other than that was mostly snatched away by good play from Rafa. It's hindsight 20/20 with 6-4 that Zverev should've hit behind him considering he'd dragged Nadal so far out wide and it was low key a great dig to not set him up with some softball putaway. He hit into the open court with his more dynamic wing Nadal needed to come up with a shot that'd be on his career highlight reel and he did. First set as a whole was alright both guys had chances to finish it earlier before the bottom fell out on that match bc conditions made it ugly. The 2nd set was a completely different matter and crapshoot that Zverev had absolutely no business allowing to get to 6 all as it was heading before the injury and a microcosm of why he's slamless + why he deserves zero benefit of the doubt that he'd have won that match if it continued. He had every opportunity to be up in the score at the time of the injury to even entertain that conversation and he gagged at quite literally every turn within that match as he's done his entire career in these big spots in majors against a tier 1 opponent. The only time he's actually crossed the finish line in that spot was when soon to be 38 yr old injured Djokovic couldn't go beyond a set a few weeks ago enough said. Don't care how tired Nadal would've been, on Chatrier with the gulf in mental strength/clutchness in the two no shot.
 
Slightly Biased Nadal Fan said:
Honestly as far as just the breaker Zverev only messed up the volley at 6-3 other than that was mostly snatched away by good play from Rafa. It's hindsight 20/20 with 6-4 that Zverev should've hit behind him considering he'd dragged Nadal so far out wide and it was low key a great dig to not set him up with some softball putaway. He hit into the open court with his more dynamic wing Nadal needed to come up with a shot that'd be on his career highlight reel and he did. First set as a whole was alright both guys had chances to finish it earlier before the bottom fell out on that match bc conditions made it ugly. The 2nd set was a completely different matter and crapshoot that Zverev had absolutely no business allowing to get to 6 all as it was heading before the injury and a microcosm of why he's slamless + why he deserves zero benefit of the doubt that he'd have won that match if it continued. He had every opportunity to be up in the score at the time of the injury to even entertain that conversation and he gagged at quite literally every turn within that match as he's done his entire career in these big spots in majors against a tier 1 opponent. The only time he's actually crossed the finish line in that spot was when soon to be 38 yr old injured Djokovic couldn't go beyond a set a few weeks ago enough said. Don't care how tired Nadal would've been, on Chatrier with the gulf in mental strength/clutchness in the two no shot.
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Exactly, Zverev did nothing wrong, that was one of Rafa's best shots in his entire career lol it was silly-good.
 
Pheasant said:
Yeah, it’s gotta be luck, because a guy that’s won the FO 14 times needs luck against a guy like Zverev.
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Even Rafa loose a few sets in the French Open events.
This could have happen against Zverev in this tiebreak, it was in Zverev hand.
Just my opinion.
 
But what luck.
The sequence with which a Nadal with his back against the wall overturned that tiebreak is one of the most impressive ever seen on a tennis court.

I often watch the highlights of that match, precisely because I consider it as compelling as few others.
The level expressed by both was very high, albeit in alternating phases.
Zverev was one of the few who did not suffer Nadal's diagonal forehand and his surreal rotations of the ball, simply because Zverev hits the backhand as if it were a smash, so he suffers less from such high bounces.

Literally an instant classic match, and some even have the courage to think about luck.
 
Winner Sinner said:
But what luck.
The sequence with which a Nadal with his back against the wall overturned that tiebreak is one of the most impressive ever seen on a tennis court.

I often watch the highlights of that match, precisely because I consider it as compelling as few others.
The level expressed by both was very high, albeit in alternating phases.
Zverev was one of the few who did not suffer Nadal's diagonal forehand and his surreal rotations of the ball, simply because Zverev hits the backhand as if it were a smash, so he suffers less from such high bounces.
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Winner Sinner said:
Literally an instant classic match, and some even have the courage to think about luck.
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Exactly, Zverev was very unbothered by Rafa's game it was insane.
 
I remember that match as being hideous. I only re-watch the tiebreak. But otherwise I just remember it being so slow and muggy that it made for awful tennis where it was impossible to hit through anything. And of course the endless trade of breaks in the 2nd set.
 
Sport said:
By OP's "logic", Federer was lucky in the first tie-break of the W 2009 final, when Roddick led 6-2.

Thank you for your answer,

-Sport.
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He was lucky. Roddick botched that volley. That tie break, had Roddick won it, would have taken him to the Wimbledon title. Federer was at his mercy in that tie break.
 
Hitman said:
He was lucky. Roddick botched that volley. That tie break, had Roddick won it, would have taken him to the Wimbledon title. Federer was at his mercy in that tie break.
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Fed was lucky in that TIebreak but thinking rest of the match would have played out similarly is kinda not true.
 
TennisGrandpA said:
Fed was lucky in that TIebreak but thinking rest of the match would have played out similarly is kinda not true.
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Nothing is 100%, but considering Roddick managed to win another set, and pushed Federer all the way in the fifth, with Federer having massive difficulties reading his serve that day, chances of Roddick losing three sets in a row are lot less likely than him winning one more set, considering his form.
 
Hitman said:
Nothing is 100%, but considering Roddick managed to win another set, and pushed Federer all the way in the fifth, with Federer having massive difficulties reading his serve that day, chances of Roddick losing three sets in a row are lot less likely than him winning one more set, considering his form.
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Yes Rods wis the second set without that massive choke , but Fed would have played differently had he lost the first set. We can’t see things in isolation that was my point ,IMO Winning first set would have definitely increased his chances but given their rivalry Fed always has something extra for A-Rod.
 
TennisGrandpA said:
Yes Rods wis the second set without that massive choke , but Fed would have played differently had he lost the first set. We can’t see things in isolation that was my point ,IMO Winning first set would have definitely increased his chances but given their rivalry Fed always has something extra for A-Rod.
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That day though he wasn't reading the serve. IMO, considering how the actual match went, I think Roddick broke Federer's serve more times than the other way round. Two sets to love down in a slam final, even for Federer against Roddick is not a given, especially on that day. Roddick played insanely well overall, look how many times he was serving to stay in the match in the fifth that it took until 16-14 for Federer to finally get a break through.
 
Hitman said:
That day though he wasn't reading the serve. IMO, considering how the actual match went, I think Roddick broke Federer's serve more times than the other way round. Two sets to love down in a slam final, even for Federer against Roddick is not a given, especially on that day. Roddick played insanely well overall, look how many times he was serving to stay in the match in the fifth that it took until 16-14 for Federer to finally get a break through.
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Definetely Roddick had the chance that day and if he wins the sec set would have been even more chance
Just my opinion
 
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