Is there a stat in which Fed is better than Djoker on clay

[ImmorTAL Big 3]

I make this thread because in the last two days i read three new threads comparing Fed vs Djoker on clay and i want it to sum all in one thread.For me this isn t debatable -there isn t any i repeat any stat in which Roger overpowers Novak-The closest is there equal H2H overall and on RG.All other stats more RG titles,Finals,SF,QF match wins , win percent ,most masters,Titles,finals,Sf,qf,match wins , most clay titles overall,better win percent,most wins,winning at least twice all clay big tournament,winning vs Nadal at least twice on any big clay tournament,as well as beating Nadal at final on all clay masters are all in favour of Novak.So i dont think the 2 are even comparable on clay.Novak should be compare with Lendl and Muster as the 3rd best claycourter after Nadal and Borg but the 3 of them are clearly ahead of Federer on clay

 

[itrium84]

I make this thread because in the last two days i read three new threads comparing Fed vs Djoker on clay and i want it to sum all in one thread.For me this isn t debatable -there isn t any i repeat any stat in which Roger overpowers Novak-The closest is there equal H2H overall and on RG.All other stats more RG titles,Finals,SF,QF match wins , win percent ,most masters,Titles,finals,Sf,qf,match wins , most clay titles overall,better win percent,most wins,winning at least twice all clay big tournament,winning vs Nadal at least twice on any big clay tournament,as well as beating Nadal at final on all clay masters are all in favour of Novak.So i dont think the 2 are even comparable on clay.Novak should be compare with Lendl and Muster as the 3rd best claycourter after Nadal and Borg but the 3 of them are clearly ahead of Federer on clay

Fed is better than Novak in winning RG2011 SF matches.

 

[One]

The problems occurs because Fed fans use RG11 sf as a proof he is better. That was one of the best ever Rog clay match. Yes Novak was in his prime, but you cant really compare like that and use exception as the proof. Novak is for sure at least 4th best on clay while Rog is what, 8th 9th?

 

[Fiero425]

Fed is better than Novak in winning RG2011 SF matches.

I guess some have to keep coming back to that match from 10 years ago, but conveniently forget 3 Wimbledon finals where the so-called GOAT came up short; the last time having 2 MP's on serve! Which is more memorable to the masses and is being replayed over and over? Not that FO SF from 2011 I can tell you that!

 

[itrium84]

You asked for a stat in which Fed is better than Djoker on clay, I provided.

 

[Bud]

They are both excellent on clay. Federer had the misfortune of running into young Nadal on clay. Djok had the good fortune of running into older Nadal on clay.

No definitive stat to prove either is better than the other.

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

Hamburg titles I guess?

 

[socallefty]

Let’s compare their clay records

* One has 17 titles - 6 more than the other
* One has 2 RG titles - double that of the other
* One has 10 Masters titles - the other has 6
* One has beaten Rafa 8 times - the other has done so 2 times
* One has beaten Rafa twice at RG - the other only has done it in his dreams
* One has a 80% career win rate - the other is 4% points less
* Head to head is even at 4-4 including 1-1 at RG

The other player wins all the hypothetical matches though and the fact that he is 1-3 in the last decade is only because he got ‘old’. It seems like a tough call as hypothetical records are better than real life records on TTW

PS: Only one has a BH that Rafa uses as target practice on clay. Is that good or bad?

 

[Jonesy]

Undefeated, in fictional matches.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Mythical peak obviously. Attacking shotmakerer always prevails at his best by the nature of his play.
Hamburg/Madrid titles too.
That's it.

 

[ImmorTAL Big 3]

Mythical peak obviously. Attacking shotmakerer always prevails at his best by the nature of his play.
Hamburg/Madrid titles too.
That's it.

Novak has more Madrid open titles on clay than Fed 3-2./ i do not include 2006 madrid indoors because we are talking about clay only.
Also if we talk about peak i could point 2009 Federer most successful year on clay when he won Madrid beating Nadal at the final and of couse Roland Garros but loss 2009 Rome SF vs Novak.So on the argument that Roger have beaten prime Novak on clay in 2011 ,which is debatable because 2015 and 2016 Novak wasn't far worse i say that Novak beat Fed at his most successful year without a doubt.So Roger may or may have not beat prime Novak but Novak definitely beat prime Roger.

 

[Ray Mercer]

The only stat you need to know is that an ancient Federer took down an absolute peak Djokovic at the French in 4 sets. It’s the equivalent of someone taking down a peak 2006 Wimbledon Fed in 4 sets.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Novak has more Madrid open titles on clay than Fed 3-2./ i do not include 2006 madrid indoors because we are talking about clay only.
Also if we talk about peak i could point 2009 Federer most successful year on clay when he won Madrid beating Nadal at the final and of couse Roland Garros but loss 2009 Rome SF vs Novak.So on the argument that Roger have beaten prime Novak on clay in 2011 ,which is debatable because 2015 and 2016 Novak wasn't far worse i say that Novak beat Fed at his most successful year without a doubt.So Roger may or may have not beat prime Novak but Novak definitely beat prime Roger.

Hamburg and Madrid go together duh.

 

[Zeref]

Breakpoints Squandered

Beat that Nole fans

 

[Red Rick]

#colors of clay on which won.

 

[ForehandCross]

The entire thing is a whole bunch of gymnastics on both fan bases side.

The reality is Novak is largely much better than Federer on clay, but the one match where they played at their best, ( The stats for 2011 Djokovic on clay is bonkers, better than his RG winning years) , Federer narrowly won.

And the Federer fanbase completely forgets that, it was a very very narrow victory, which was in part due to Djokovic trying to outhit Federer of all people.

And Djokovic fanbase dismisses the match as a single event, when Djokovic was actually in the form of his life, posting numbers I guess he never posted again.

Personally never saw Djokovic's FH working on clay the way it worked that day, he was clobbering the ball like I have never seen him. BH could have been better but it was mostly due to Federer changing pace and slicing to that wing that Novak couldn't get it going.


@socallefty is 100% right that overall , it is stupid to even discuss who is better on clay, it's definitely Novak.

But When the question is about mythical hypotheticals, Federer did win the biggest match they played on the surface. And they are tied 3-3 on clay.

So he always will have people supporting him in those debates.

Personally I think Novak is miles better than Federer on clay, but at their absolute best, it will be even stevens between them.

 

[lucky13]

nole vs fed on clay

- RG titles: 2-1 (100% better)
- masters: 10-6 (67% better)
- all clay masters at least 2 times vs no rome or MC
- clay titles: 17 - 11 (55% better)
- W% on clay: 81% vs 76%
- h2h on clay vs rafa: 8-19 (30%) vs 2-14 (13%), on RG 2-7 (22%) vs 0-6 (0%)

h2h
RG: 1-1, sets: 4-3, games: 40-35
masters: 3-3, sets: 7-7, games 65-56 (nole RET in 2nd set in one match on 2-3)

 

[The_Order]

Let’s compare their clay records

* One has 17 titles - 6 more than the other
* One has 2 RG titles - double that of the other
* One has 10 Masters titles - the other has 6
* One has beaten Rafa 8 times - the other has done so 2 times
* One has beaten Rafa twice at RG - the other only has done it in his dreams
* One has a 80% career win rate - the other is 4% points less
* Head to head is even at 4-4 including 1-1 at RG

The other player wins all the hypothetical matches though and the fact that he is 1-3 in the last decade is only because he got ‘old’. It seems like a tough call as hypothetical records are better than real life records on TTW

PS: Only one has a BH that Rafa uses as target practice on clay. Is that good or bad?

Hmmmm.... the "other" you're referring to had the unfortunate luck of running into peak Rafa on clay.... the "one" you're referring to did what he does best... waits for Fedal to decline to beat them at their best majors...

 

[lucky13]

nole is not better than fed only on clay but on HC as well. the fact is that nole is better on at least 2 out of 3 surfaces than any tennis player in history! and being better on 2 out of 3 surfaces than enyone is something that does not take attention in GOAT debates even though it is a really important factor that should play a big role in GOAT debates!

 

[Antonio Puente]

nole is not better than fed only on clay but on HC as well. the fact is that nole is better on at least 2 out of 3 surfaces than any tennis player in history!

No doubt. I enjoyed seeing the hardcourt GOAT at work in Tokyo and the USO final.

Within the Big 3, the hardcourt GOAT is in 3rd place at one of the two HC slams.

 

[Biotic]

1. Hypotheticals
2. Hamburg titles, which stopped being a clay tournament when Djoko was 21. If it continued, that one would likely be gone, considering it had a low bounce.

 

[Biotic]

The entire thing is a whole bunch of gymnastics on both fan bases side.

The reality is Novak is largely much better than Federer on clay, but the one match where they played at their best, ( The stats for 2011 Djokovic on clay is bonkers, better than his RG winning years) , Federer narrowly won.

And the Federer fanbase completely forgets that, it was a very very narrow victory, which was in part due to Djokovic trying to outhit Federer of all people.

And Djokovic fanbase dismisses the match as a single event, when Djokovic was actually in the form of his life, posting numbers I guess he never posted again.

Personally never saw Djokovic's FH working on clay the way it worked that day, he was clobbering the ball like I have never seen him. BH could have been better but it was mostly due to Federer changing pace and slicing to that wing that Novak couldn't get it going.


@socallefty is 100% right that overall , it is stupid to even discuss who is better on clay, it's definitely Novak.

But When the question is about mythical hypotheticals, Federer did win the biggest match they played on the surface. And they are tied 3-3 on clay.

So he always will have people supporting him in those debates.

Personally I think Novak is miles better than Federer on clay, but at their absolute best, it will be even stevens between them.

In normal RG conditions, with standard balls, a 4 set victory would probably turn into a 4 set defeat.

One only has to look at the difference it made between 2012 Madrid and 2012 RG result for Federer.

 

[RaulRamirez]

Fed deserves full credit for beating Novak at RG11.
Was that enough for me to consider him better than Novak on clay? No, Novak's overall record and set of accomplishments is stronger.

 

[Europa1]

Hamburg titles I guess?

Which one has more best of five wins on clay excluding the years neither was able to play?

 

[NatF]

Don't think there's anything now tbh.

 

[ImmorTAL Big 3]

Which one has more best of five wins on clay excluding the years neither was able to play?

According to ultimatetennisstatistics.com it s still Djokovic 90 wins in 109 matches compare to Fed 89 from 114.If we compare matches who went to 5th set it s 10-4 Novak to 6-4 Roger. I said you 95 % of any clay stats between the two are all in favour of Novak.

 

[Hitman]

Interesting Federer leads Djokovic in their H2H in MC 3-0. So he has that I guess.

 

[RF-18]

They are both excellent on clay. Federer had the misfortune of running into young Nadal on clay. Djok had the good fortune of running into older Nadal on clay.

No definitive stat to prove either is better than the other.

No definitve stat to prove either is better than the other? Literally every stat on clay favours Djokovic, as per OP. It's not even a debate anymore.

 

[Amen786]

I make this thread because in the last two days i read three new threads comparing Fed vs Djoker on clay and i want it to sum all in one thread.For me this isn t debatable -there isn t any i repeat any stat in which Roger overpowers Novak-The closest is there equal H2H overall and on RG.All other stats more RG titles,Finals,SF,QF match wins , win percent ,most masters,Titles,finals,Sf,qf,match wins , most clay titles overall,better win percent,most wins,winning at least twice all clay big tournament,winning vs Nadal at least twice on any big clay tournament,as well as beating Nadal at final on all clay masters are all in favour of Novak.So i dont think the 2 are even comparable on clay.Novak should be compare with Lendl and Muster as the 3rd best claycourter after Nadal and Borg but the 3 of them are clearly ahead of Federer on clay

2011

 

[Milanez82]

The entire thing is a whole bunch of gymnastics on both fan bases side.

The reality is Novak is largely much better than Federer on clay, but the one match where they played at their best, ( The stats for 2011 Djokovic on clay is bonkers, better than his RG winning years) , Federer narrowly won.

And the Federer fanbase completely forgets that, it was a very very narrow victory, which was in part due to Djokovic trying to outhit Federer of all people.

And Djokovic fanbase dismisses the match as a single event, when Djokovic was actually in the form of his life, posting numbers I guess he never posted again.

Personally never saw Djokovic's FH working on clay the way it worked that day, he was clobbering the ball like I have never seen him. BH could have been better but it was mostly due to Federer changing pace and slicing to that wing that Novak couldn't get it going.


@socallefty is 100% right that overall , it is stupid to even discuss who is better on clay, it's definitely Novak.

But When the question is about mythical hypotheticals, Federer did win the biggest match they played on the surface. And they are tied 3-3 on clay.

So he always will have people supporting him in those debates.

Personally I think Novak is miles better than Federer on clay, but at their absolute best, it will be even stevens between them.

Djokovic indeed had trouble with Federer slice that day, it was just a masterful tactical performance from Fed where his defense was top notch aided big time by one of his best ever serving performances too
Also Djokovic not playing QF might have disrupted his rhythm
In any case, a tight match where Federer was the more clutch player.

 

[lucky13]

No doubt. I enjoyed seeing the hardcourt GOAT at work in Tokyo and the USO final.

Within the Big 3, the hardcourt GOAT is in 3rd place at one of the two HC slams.

still HC GOAT and still better on 2 of 3 surfaces than anyone else including fed and rafa!

 

[Europa1]

According to ultimatetennisstatistics.com it s still Djokovic 90 wins in 109 matches compare to Fed 89 from 114.If we compare matches who went to 5th set it s 10-4 Novak to 6-4 Roger. I said you 95 % of any clay stats between the two are all in favour of Novak.

Disregard

 

[lucky13]

Disregard

me too. is more like 98-99% or closer to 100% than 95%.

 

[Third Serve]

won on two colors of clay

 

[ImmorTAL Big 3]

All comparison
Djokovic/Federer
GS-Titles,Finals+,SF+,QF+,R16+,Match wins,win%-2-1,6-5,11-8,15-12,15-15,81-73,81-15 73-17,84.38%-81.11%
Masters-Titles,Finals+,SF+,QF+,Match wins,Win%-10-6,18-16,25-19,32-26,122-113,122-30 113-38,80.26%-74.83%
Monte Carlo Masters-Titles,Finals+,SF+,QF+,Match wins,Win %-2-0,4-4,7-4,9-8,35-30,35-10 30-13,74.47%-69.77%
Madrid Masters /post 2009/-Titles,Finals+,SF+,QF+,Match wins,Win%-3-2,3-3,5-4,6-5,22-20,22-5 20-5, 81.48%-80.00%
Rome Masters-Titles,Finals+,SF+,QF+,Match wins,win%-5-0,11-4,12-6,15-8,59-34,59-10 34-16,85.51%-68.00%
ATP 250-Titles,Finals+,SF+,QF+,Match wins,win%-5-4,6-5,7-6,8-6,31-25,31-8 25-10,79.49%-71.43%
Team cups /Davis cup /10-4 12-4
H2H Overall H2H 4-4 GS 1-1,Both SF,Masters 3-3,F-1-0,SF 2-2,R64 0-1
H2H vs Nadal overall 8-19 2-14,29.6%-12.5%
H2H vs Nadal GS 2-7 0-6, 22.2%-0%
H2H vs Nadal Masters 6-11 2-8 35.3% -20%/ Finals 4-6,2-7/
H2H vs Top 1,Top 5,Top 10,Top 20,Top 50 overall-3-7 1-5,24-25 18-21,45-32 32-29,73-38 61-41,148-48 136-55
H2H vs Top 1,Top 5 ,Top 10 ,Top 20 ,Top 50 at GS - 0-1 0-2, 7-9 4-8 ,13-12 8-12 ,25-12 15-14 ,40-14 31-16
H2H vs Top 1,Top 5, Top 10,Top 20,Top 50 at Masters -3-5 1-3,17-15 12-13, 31-19 21-15,44-24 42-23,95-29 93-33
Highest clay Elo ranking 1-2
NOVAK HAVE WON CARRER DOUBLE CLAY masters plus 2 RG