ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
And they fill the sock with empanadas, right? THATS WHAT I SAW!!
Is there specific technique for dropping the racket in FH, BH STROKES?
- Thread starter user92626
- Start date
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Dude, when are you going to come to NorCal and let me fix your forehand? None of what you have seen posted on here is going to help. YouTubers are over complicating the ATP forehand by examining it too closely. They are Chas-ing out over slow speed video and telling you about positions etc. That is not how it is done. It is way easier than this.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
This is probably the nicest thing that I've ever heard from you. Thanks.
So you're in Northern CA? Can I pay for your bus ticket to come to So CA?
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Is that where you are? Taking my senior in high school daughter to Cal Poly this fall. We’ll meet halfway.This is probably the nicest thing that I've ever heard from you. Thanks.
So you're in Northern CA? Can I pay for your bus ticket to come to So CA?
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
No, neither one employs a WTA style. Takeback of both are more compact than typical WTA styles. Del Potro is probably closer to WTA than these guys.I think the two instructions in SA post are old school? Or maybe WTA style? I dunno.
The top ATP guys aren't turning the arm up until they are ready for the forward phase.
Look:
Not really sure what you mean by "turning the arm up".Elaborate por favor. There are many ways to hit an ATP Fh. With these guys I see elements of both a compact classic style (like Agassi) and more modern styles.
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SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Recently discovered that there are now 3 Cal Poly campuses. Humboldt State, as of 2 years ago, is now Cal Poly Humboldt. Assume you're referring to Cal Poly SLO tho
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Yes SLO.
There really aren’t a lot of ways to hit an ATP forehand. There are different ways and locations to hold the racquet upon completion of take back, but everyone does the same thing from there.
It’s like shooting a basketball. Forgetting Rick Barry, two-hand set shots, shooters extend the arm at an angle to create an arc and use wrist flexion to release the ball. Believe it or not the ATP forehand is also that simple.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Right here, time mark 0:35. He (intentionally) turns his arm ...effectively pointing the racket at back fence and opening up the face.
Now look at the Djo, do you see this "arm turning" in his way to point the racket back?
Dragy
Legend
Yeah, Djokovic is also turning his arm elbow-down as he starts uncoiling. The instructing guy demonstrates it with exaggeration, Novak is transitioning more smoothly. But watching Novak, someone with an issue (trying to pull it with elbow still back, and getting his wrist snapped back) will likely not see it. So it's healthy to demonstrate this transition into proper arm-shoulder configuration as the coach does.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Djok does everything smoothly, no question about it, but more importantly extremely technical and efficient (proof is in the pudding). Hence, I "question" the coaches'.
Both approaches work for hitting the ball though. To me the coach's "early" turning/opening up the racket is more gradual, as opposed to Djok's abrupt "flipping" (0:09,0:10). Check it out. Remember I said this abrupt flipping was giving me problem?
I think at this point I understand things much much better. I can reconcile the two approaches and combine and find the best way for me.
Dragy
Legend
I disagree with calling Djokovic abrupt, even at that "flipping" part of the swing. His swings are long and smooth, he enters the slot comfortably. Federer is abrupt, Nadal is quite extreme too. Fritz is of more modern guys.Djok does everything smoothly, no question about it, but more importantly extremely technical and efficient (proof is in the pudding). Hence, I "question" the coaches'.
Both approaches work for hitting the ball though. To me the coach's "early" turning/opening up the racket is more gradual, as opposed to Djok's abrupt "flipping" (0:09,0:10). Check it out. Remember I said this abrupt flipping was giving me problem?
I think at this point I understand things much much better. I can reconcile the two approaches and combine and find the best way for me.
But this is kind of taste and detail discussion. If you apply what the Jerry Albrikes coach does, you'll be good. It's alike Agassi and Tsitsipas a lot.
One thing you may want to consider, when he puts it there in static demonstration, it's a bit odd, but when he executes it vs live ball, with uncoiling and forward body shift, it goes together with pulling, which is perfect.
Dragy
Legend
Even this isn't abrupt, watch slowmo part. Just more goes into reversing vs looping.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Yeah..ok. Abrupt is a subjective term.
What I mean is I can pinpoint the time where Djok's racket flips from closed to open. That time is much more apparent and brief (hence term abrupt).
Now look at the rec coaches, like the one in my post 62. There's no particular time mark where you can tell that his racket face starts to open for contact.
Dragy
Legend
Yeah, because you first learn enter the shape properly, and only then with experience you can shorten it, I guess.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, reversing and looping is good term, too.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
I see.
Maybe these are good necessary basic steps for learning.
Took me some time to reconcile the difference and figure things out for myself.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
No you can’t. Neither, nor a combo of both, will work. You’ve given yourself a focus point that you should never have to even think about.
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user92626
G.O.A.T.
Interesting. Thats better than focus on nothing.
Can i pay you to tell me the correct focus point?
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
No. Can’t imagine charging someone to teach them to hit a tennis ball.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Someone here( on the forum) wanted me to pay him for that. Not even a coach!
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
No he didn’t.
Like Tom in the video, I'm switching to a 2hbh and had a hard time getting it to feel loose and natural. One thing that helped me relax on the bh was to hang my pinky (and sometimes my ring finger off the end). Keeping the grip loose allows the natural gravity drop. Also, I had a little Velcro one pound weight I attached to the top of the hoop and shadow swung before hitting.
FH, it always felt natural to get the drop and subsequent whip.
FH, it always felt natural to get the drop and subsequent whip.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
He did. How would you know?
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
It wasn’t the kind of “no he didn’t” you think it was.
Since it is apparently public knowledge, who was it, or do you girls gossip in the girl’s room while doing your make-up?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
No further comments on this.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Why do you always want to keep what you understand a secret?
Does it serve you well? Gain you respect, liking from ppls around you?
To me it's ridiculous.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Sounds like some pathological enjoyment, eh?
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
To be honest, I understand something that no one else has even come close to stating. I can tell that even the people that charge money to fix strokes don’t get it, by what they post. It will eventually come to light and you will see what I mean.
If you believe that the modern forehand came about in the way it is taught, you’d have to be crazy. Like “I need to flip this racquet into a lag position, find a slot to put it in, pull the butt cap forward and then pronate the forearm to get that last bit of topspin out of it. That will make the perfect forehand!”
It is a simple concept that has been overly dissected and taught from a point of different racquet positions. How has learning the forehand from a handful of different racquet positions worked for you?
If you believe that the modern forehand came about in the way it is taught, you’d have to be crazy. Like “I need to flip this racquet into a lag position, find a slot to put it in, pull the butt cap forward and then pronate the forearm to get that last bit of topspin out of it. That will make the perfect forehand!”
It is a simple concept that has been overly dissected and taught from a point of different racquet positions. How has learning the forehand from a handful of different racquet positions worked for you?
user92626
G.O.A.T.
You can take your understanding of the FH to your grave for all I care.
I think Curious is right. At this point it's pathological for you, the way you "communicate".
Dragy
Legend
@ballmachineguy you are going to be like @Chas Tennis but without longreads reposted.
(Sorry for being toxic, I recognize it, but cannot resist)
(Sorry for being toxic, I recognize it, but cannot resist)
user92626
G.O.A.T.
I don't understand what you mean.
Chas is sincere & instruction focused. Couldn't be more different from Ballmachineguy.
Dragy
Legend
Chas is sincere in repeating couple of ideas for 9? 10 years? Reposting same posts and texts, not listening, not trying to learn in discussion. Not posting his videos neither having examples of anyone who improved using his advice or coaching.
Ballmachineguy doesn’t have same volume of pics, links and posted texts. And is actively aggressive.
This is my sincere opinion, and I stop attacking and mocking people further on
user92626
G.O.A.T.
To be fair many of us have only so many ideas that we believe in or stand behind. So it's fine to repeat same things over and over, maybe for newcomers as long as they adhere to the point of this place, ie instructions & tips. And that's what Chas does. I rather like his dedication & consistency. Occasionally Chas brings up a good pro video.Chas is sincere in repeating couple of ideas for 9? 10 years? Reposting same posts and texts, not listening, not trying to learn in discussion. Not posting his videos neither having examples of anyone who improved using his advice or coaching.
Ballmachineguy doesn’t have same volume of pics, links and posted texts. And is actively aggressive.
This is my sincere opinion, and I stop attacking and mocking people further on
Ballmachineguy is an indefensible outcast. He comes to an instructions place but only says people are wrong, suck, givers and takers alike. Everyone is wrong, clueless. That is it. No why, no how, no basis for his allegations. Only pics he posts are mocking types if not for to say someone is wrong.
I don't think you were attacking anyone in this thread, neither am I. I can banter but occasionally I also like to be ...serious. No need to ignore the elephant in the room.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I’m wondering how many different tips I’ve heard/seen from people in person and from videos in the last 10 years. Anyone want to guess? 500? 1500? On how many of them have I worked seriously and long enough? I remember there was a poster here with a muscle memory theory: execute a shot 10,000 times without hitting anything else during that period for a permanent change, which I did on my forehand. There was no noticeable improvement!
PS: it was @ADS who was last seen here in 2021. He wrote a book called “Muscle Memory and Imagery: Better Tennis”
PS: it was @ADS who was last seen here in 2021. He wrote a book called “Muscle Memory and Imagery: Better Tennis”
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ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
I told you you are doing it wrong. I told you what to do many times. I told user what to do. You don’t do it, so I reserve the right to not repeat myself. Telling you you are doing it wrong is better than letting you believe you are on the right track when you aren’t.I’m wondering how many different tips I’ve heard/seen from people in person and from videos in the last 10 years. Anyone want to guess? 500? 1500? On how many of them have I worked seriously and long enough? I remember there was a poster here with a muscle memory theory: execute a shot 10,000 times without hitting anything else during that period for a permanent change, which I did on my forehand. There was no noticeable improvement!
PS: it was @ADS who was last seen here in 2021. He wrote a book called “Muscle Memory and Imagery: Better Tennis”
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Curious
G.O.A.T.
Yes, you did. That’s what you do.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
You said take the racket back and drive the hitting shoulder once it starts dropping, that’s it. I tried that, didn’t work. So?
user92626
G.O.A.T.
told me what? Give a link or you're a liar.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Same old song that this guy's harping on. Even my stuck CD player repeats less.
@ballmachineguy
You got much to learn from @Chas Tennis
Post specific helpful stuff even repetitive.
No one wants to hear you repeating they are wrong.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
He told you and me to go and see him in NorCal. And we didn’t listen!
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
Ways to Adjust Racket Height to Impact Ball for Ground Strokes
The well know instruction to 'bend your knees for low balls' is one way to adjust the height of the racket head for low balls. It works for all ground strokes. SPECIFY GROUND STROKE or ALL GROUND STROKES and METHOD and BALL HEIGHT Add comments, pictures, videos, and any issues. Examples: ALL...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
Rotation axes and their tilts are an interesting option for impact height adjustment. One rotation & axis direction to observe would be for the main rotation. Is height adjustment being done or is it being avoided by tilting the main rotation axis? See videos. Is the waist where the axis tilt occurs for the main rotation?
Toly composite videos are very good for showing racket paths in one frame. Always check Toly's work.
How many height adjustment ways are in use here? How many rotation axes for racket head speed? Tilt the torso axis?
If you are unfamiliar with rotation axes, take a racket in your hand and demo the various motions in the strokes separately. Pelvis rotation from legs, uppermost body at shoulders from trunk, arm at shoulder joint, lower arm at elbow, wrist, everything that you see in stroke videos like the Djokovic video.
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ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Even if they charged you 10x the normal airfare, it would be worth it.
Remove the word "simple" and replace "overly" with "incorrectly" and I agree completely. So, how's it done?
It's actually 50,000 reps.I’m wondering how many different tips I’ve heard/seen from people in person and from videos in the last 10 years. Anyone want to guess? 500? 1500? On how many of them have I worked seriously and long enough? I remember there was a poster here with a muscle memory theory: execute a shot 10,000 times without hitting anything else during that period for a permanent change, which I did on my forehand. There was no noticeable improvement!
PS: it was @ADS who was last seen here in 2021. He wrote a book called “Muscle Memory and Imagery: Better Tennis”
user92626
G.O.A.T.
LOL NOOBIE.
Remind me of the thing where I put up "Dangerous. Beware of Dog" "Keep Away" signs on front door. Everywhere. Yet there's still idi...uh...people come knocking...
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Oh great, Curious. I was trying to be serious with him for a second, trying to get him to change his behavior, but you went back to nonsense bantering.
And, he's back to insulting your tennis level. His usual mode. Nice!
I give up. I can't be serious with you guys.
Can't remove the spots on leo, the stank on skunk. It is what it is.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
You’re gonna live to eat those words. Ten minutes with either of you and you’d have foolproof forehands.Oh great, Curious. I was trying to be serious with him for a second, trying to get him to change his behavior, but you went back to nonsense bantering.
And, he's back to insulting your tennis level. His usual mode. Nice!
I give up. I can't be serious with you guys.
I'd love to see that
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
You will, eventually.
Your dog ran away when he saw meLOL NOOBIE.
Remind me of the thing where I put up "Dangerous. Beware of Dog" "Keep Away" signs on front door. Everywhere. Yet there's still idi...uh...people come knocking...
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