Is THIS...finally... the beginning of the end for Fed?

Since the beginning of the year--heck, probably since last year, when Fred just turned 36--people have been saying he's 37.

Guys, Fred's 36, not 37. lol In a few weeks, he'll legitimately be 37.
 
Speculations about Federer's end started back in 2003 and continued till today:

UO03 - "What's one Wimbledon title worth? One slam wonder Federer!"
AO05 - "Safin wins! Federer is dead."
AO08 - "That's it! Bye, Federer!"
AO09 - "Why is he still here?"
UO09 - "Go home, your are too old!"
WIM10 - "Go away!"
WIM13 - "What was that?"
WIM14 - "Fancy new racquet won't protect you!"
WIM15 - "You lost to a player who eats grass."
UO15 - "SNever heard of break points, ha?"
AO16 - "Just die already!"
WIM18 - "The end."
 
Antonio Puente said:
Redemption would have been beating Nadal at RG 8-10 years ago, not beating a Nadal, who going into Australia, had been straight-setted by Troicki and Dimitrov(his only victory over Nadal).

Between Nadal and Fed, Fed's AO victory over Nadal was 5 slam titles ago - not the final chapter, just one tournament in the chain.

Nothing ended. Nothing was settled. Fed should beat Nadal once a decade in a slam.
Click to expand...
Keep the salt level high, man :p
 
Antonio Puente said:
That might be true, but let's not pretend there was anything great or historic about it. Everyone was beating Nadal. Troicki and Dimitrov were straight-setting him. Murray was laughing at him on clay. Three of Fed's four wins in 2017, including the signature moment in Australia, came before Nadal ever got back onto the horse and won a single tournament.

This in particular is cracks me up:



So, Nadal is a joke on HC, yet somehow beating a completely down and out Nadal on HC is the greatest moment in tennis history?

lol
Click to expand...
Nadal was already back on the horse after he beat Zverev at the AO. He reached the final and was a break up in the 5th set. Of course, because he lost, a fanboy like you comes up with all sorts of excuses and even bring up irrelevant matches like the Dimitrov and Troicki matches in Beijing ans Shanghai in 2016 which have no bearing for the AO 2017 which is in a new year when everything is reset. The same way Fed's loss to Goffin at the WTF had no beating on his AO 2018 campaign. I bet that if Nadal won, you wouldn't being up any excuse. Instrad you would come and say how Fed is an overrated fraud and wouldn't give a damn about his age and the fact that he had missed 6 months of tennis.

Of course Nadal didn't win tournaments until the clay season last year, doofus. It was because of Fed repeatedly stopping him :D Otherwise he would have won the AO and the Sunshine Double. And no, he didn't play better afterwards on HC. You're not fooling anyone by saying Nadal was playing better in the New York challenger.

Nadal beat Fed many times when Fed was low on confidence, but you never mention that.

So stay pressed and keep the salt level high.
 
Antonio Puente said:
Key words: on his way.

Of course when Djoker lost to Chung, Daniel, Paire, Klizan, Edmund and Cecchinato he was on his way to a Wimbledon title, and possibly more, but I'm guessing those matches won't go down as legendary, historic victories for the opposition.
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Wow, this comparison is on a whole new level of delusional o_O
 
Antonio Puente said:
Compared to other weak era chumps, was Nadal down and out at that point? Apparenty he wasn't down and out enough.

That said, we're not comparing Nadal to other weak era chumps. We're examining a match between two greatest players ever, and in the arc of their grand slam careers, when had Nadal entered a final lower than that? Beating Nadal in that final, at that point, in Australia is worthy of the type of worship Fed fans give it? Really? After a few years off, had Djoker stumbled through a few five setters to the RG final and lost, no one would have cared or taken note of it. Seriously.

Fed shoud beat Nadal once a decade in a slam, especially under those circumstances. What is special about it?
Click to expand...
Tell me, when has Fed ever arrived in a GS final lower other than AO 2017? Nadal was ranked no.9 at that time, while Fed was ranked 17.

Face it, you have no arguments. You're just butthurt that Nadal lost to a 35 year old Federer when you were sure Nadal had the match wrapped up before it even started.

You're an embarrassment to the Nadal fanbase.

Now tell me, what was so special about Nadal beating a mono-ridden Fed at Wimb 2008?
 
mike danny said:
I don't think he is finished just yet. I think he still has 1 more left in him.

The Anderson loss simply reminded us that the guy is 37, not 27. He is not the favorite for every slam anymore, even his best one.
Click to expand...

... Um ... But didn't everyone say Fed was a shoe in to win it again his year before it began? :rolleyes:
 
mike danny said:
Tell me, when has Fed ever arrived in a GS final lower other than AO 2017? Nadal was ranked no.9 at that time, while Fed was ranked 17.

Face it, you have no arguments. You're just butthurt that Nadal lost to a 35 year old Federer when you were sure Nadal had the match wrapped up before it even started.

You're an embarrassment to the Nadal fanbase.

Now tell me, what was so special about Nadal beating a mono-ridden Fed at Wimb 2008?
Click to expand...

Well this 'mono ridden' guy managed to straight set the rest of his opponents before meeting Nadal in 08 Wimbledon.
Bit strange that someone so ill could do that, and then play 5 sets in the final no problem.:rolleyes:
 
kevaninho said:
... Um ... But didn't everyone say Fed was a shoe in to win it again his year before it began? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Hence, the "the Anderson loss reminded us that fed is 37, not 27. He is not the favorite for every slam anymore, not even his best one" part.

And not every Fed fan was saying he was a shoe in. The knowledgeable ones were being precatious.

Some Nadal fans were calling Nadal a lock for RG when the AO had just ended.
 
Its all been circumstance. If Djoker hadn't looked so strong in Wimbledon, no one would be doubting Fed. Remember he was supposedly favourite for last USO. and Wimby 18.
People constantly change their opinion based on 1 showing, its laughable.
 
kevaninho said:
Well this 'mono ridden' guy managed to straight set the rest of his opponents before meeting Nadal in 08 Wimbledon.
Bit strange that someone so ill could do that, and then play 5 sets in the final no problem.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Look who I was responding to first. There is no room for rational arguments with that guy so I just played by his rules.
 
Hydrocella said:
Fed’s motivation has always been the most fascinating part to me.

What makes him tick?

2009 USO Final is a great example.

In fact, every time he’s across Delpo how he ends up playing communicates a lot about what motivates him.

I think Fed’s motivation is unique to him, it’s different from every other person on tour.

It’s both his best asset and worst liability.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the uncanny resilience does not get nearly enough press, and cannot be overstated.

I've heard his focus characterized as borderline sociopathy. If so, I guess this is one of the shining examples of the marriage of single-minded determination and the relentless pursuit of self-improvement.
 
To actually answer the OP's question, yes I do think Fed is on another downward cycle again. Because there isn't much to attribute to the loss of form, you can say 2013 was due to the back, rust, old racquet, 2014-2015 was stopped by Peakovic, 2016 knee issue. But now it's just him losing a step again, it's more similar to the 2010-2011 years. But Fed was due to have a lackluster period (let's face it we talk about the AO-IW-Miami triple in 2017 casually but it's at the age of 36 it's frankly utterly ridiculous/freak incident).

Whether this is the final countdown for Fed is entirely a different question though. In 2013 I didn't think he was going to come back (his Basel-Paris-WTF performance installed a glimmer of hope in me), in 2016 I was sure he would come back at a high level, right now I'm not too optimistic, but it's not the first time Fed has surprised me.
 
Rubens said:
Do not worry. Somewhere in San Diego, in a damp smelly basement, a fat low-life turd on his computer is doing his best to jinx Fed's rivals by posting jinx threads on this forum during each tournament. As long as he does this, there is hope for Fed.
Click to expand...

Damn it! Are you spying on me???
 
mike danny said:
The Anderson loss simply reminded us that the guy is 37, not 27.
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Federer losing focus after getting a slam lead has little to do with age. The below doesn't even list those 5-setters that shouldn't have gone to 5 sets won by Roger:

2005 AO: 2-1 set lead; went for the headline making between-the-legs winner on match point.
2009 USO: After going up 2-1, assumed Delpo would go away, then found himself in a match.
2010 USO: Ditto with Djokovic.
2011 Wim: Ditto with Tsonga after going up 2-0.
2011 USO: 2-0 set lead; rattled by Nole's saved match point/give-me-some-love celebration.
2016 Wim: Blown 2-1 set lead to a LostGen. Gag.
2018 Wim: Ditto of 2011 with Anderson.
 
duaneeo said:
Federer losing focus after getting a slam lead has little to do with age. The below doesn't even list those 5-setters that shouldn't have gone to 5 sets won by Roger:

2005 AO: 2-1 set lead; went for the headline making between-the-legs winner on match point.
2009 USO: After going up 2-1, assumed Delpo would go away, then found himself in a match.
2010 USO: Ditto with Djokovic.
2011 Wim: Ditto with Tsonga after going up 2-0.
2011 USO: 2-0 set lead; rattled by Nole's saved match point/give-me-some-love celebration.
2016 Wim: Blown 2-1 set lead to a LostGen. Gag.
2018 Wim: Ditto of 2011 with Anderson.
Click to expand...
Agree w all cept 2016 Wimb. Surgeryerer had no business getting past Cilic to meet Rabotic.
 
What.Federer 2018 season is decent.He played 7 tournaments and made 5 finals and won 3 of them.Do you expect from him to win every tournament he enters.Yes his level of play the last year was higher than this for sure but this is not surprise.He cant keep IW 2017 and Wimbledon 2017 level for a long time.
 
kevaninho said:
Its all been circumstance. If Djoker hadn't looked so strong in Wimbledon, no one would be doubting Fed. Remember he was supposedly favourite for last USO. and Wimby 18.
People constantly change their opinion based on 1 showing, its laughable.
Click to expand...

For me it’s not one showing though.

1. It’s the contrast w 2017 where he won all the close matches at the business end ( heck- seemed like he won just about every match he played. ). Now he’s losing the close ones in Indian wells, Halle, Wimbledon. Let’s not even mention Miami.

2. He is days away from 37 years old. His tenure at the top is getting beyond ridiculous.
But every year we get closer to crying wolf accurately.
 
kevaninho said:
Well this 'mono ridden' guy managed to straight set the rest of his opponents before meeting Nadal in 08 Wimbledon.
Bit strange that someone so ill could do that, and then play 5 sets in the final no problem.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yes who could forget him only losing to Djokovic in the semis of the AO that year due to 'mono'. During that tournament his 'mono' symptoms were at their peak yet he still managed to get to the semis.

It's also the reason why he got his arse handed to him by Nadal at Roland Garros (4th year in a row). But it still begs the question, how did he manage to get to the final of the most physically gruelling grand slam whilst suffering from the debilitating effects of 'mono' ????
 
Purplemonster said:
Yes who could forget him only losing to Djokovic in the semis of the AO that year due to 'mono'. During that tournament his 'mono' symptoms were at their peak yet he still managed to get to the semis.

It's also the reason why he got his arse handed to him by Nadal at Roland Garros (4th year in a row). But it still begs the question, how did he manage to get to the final of the most physically gruelling grand slam whilst suffering from the debilitating effects of 'mono' ????
Click to expand...
GOATs don’t get mono like everyone else. ;)

Without it he probably has another 3 slam season.
 
As much as it pains me, I agree Federer 2018 is looking old. He looked to have the magic early in Wimbledon but the Andersen match was a major disappointment. I hate to say he will not win another slam because you never know but it is unlikely at this point. All the competition is roughly 5 years younger or more. 5 years is a long time for a 36 year old player's competition. The young guns are almost 15 years younger.
 
A6caufQ.jpg
 
Purplemonster said:
Yes who could forget him only losing to Djokovic in the semis of the AO that year due to 'mono'. During that tournament his 'mono' symptoms were at their peak yet he still managed to get to the semis.

It's also the reason why he got his arse handed to him by Nadal at Roland Garros (4th year in a row). But it still begs the question, how did he manage to get to the final of the most physically gruelling grand slam whilst suffering from the debilitating effects of 'mono' ????
Click to expand...
Testament to greatness.
 
Purplemonster said:
Yes who could forget him only losing to Djokovic in the semis of the AO that year due to 'mono'. During that tournament his 'mono' symptoms were at their peak yet he still managed to get to the semis.

It's also the reason why he got his arse handed to him by Nadal at Roland Garros (4th year in a row). But it still begs the question, how did he manage to get to the final of the most physically gruelling grand slam whilst suffering from the debilitating effects of 'mono' ????
Click to expand...
Not sure if sarc or what, but it's undeniable that he played thru mono in AO 08. Medically documented. What's harder to prove is how much the affects lingered for FO/Wim. I think it contributed to his slight decline that year and even after, and without it he'd have won Wim easy, but I understand it's debatable. I also don't use this as an excuse for anything: you win what you win and there are no moral victories. He's had a successful career.
 
Purplemonster said:
Yes who could forget him only losing to Djokovic in the semis of the AO that year due to 'mono'. During that tournament his 'mono' symptoms were at their peak yet he still managed to get to the semis.

It's also the reason why he got his arse handed to him by Nadal at Roland Garros (4th year in a row). But it still begs the question, how did he manage to get to the final of the most physically gruelling grand slam whilst suffering from the debilitating effects of 'mono' ????
Click to expand...
How did Djokovic manage to reach a masters final and 2 slam QF's last year while presumably injured since second half of 2016?

Or even better. How did Tipsarevic push Fed to 10-8 in the 5th at that AO while not winning even a single set afterwards jn any of their matches?
 
Purplemonster said:
Yes who could forget him only losing to Djokovic in the semis of the AO that year due to 'mono'. During that tournament his 'mono' symptoms were at their peak yet he still managed to get to the semis.

It's also the reason why he got his arse handed to him by Nadal at Roland Garros (4th year in a row). But it still begs the question, how did he manage to get to the final of the most physically gruelling grand slam whilst suffering from the debilitating effects of 'mono' ????
Click to expand...
Truly sad that you have to bring up a match from ten years ago since nothing in the past five years is worth mentioning.
 
duaneeo said:
Federer losing focus after getting a slam lead has little to do with age. The below doesn't even list those 5-setters that shouldn't have gone to 5 sets won by Roger:

2005 AO: 2-1 set lead; went for the headline making between-the-legs winner on match point.
2009 USO: After going up 2-1, assumed Delpo would go away, then found himself in a match.
2010 USO: Ditto with Djokovic.
2011 Wim: Ditto with Tsonga after going up 2-0.
2011 USO: 2-0 set lead; rattled by Nole's saved match point/give-me-some-love celebration.
2016 Wim: Blown 2-1 set lead to a LostGen. Gag.
2018 Wim: Ditto of 2011 with Anderson.
Click to expand...

Nice post.

For crying out loud, all this talk about old man Fed, wanting to mollycoddle and swaddle him like he’s some sort of fragile geriatric gets weary. He’s a world class athlete.

He won a slam this year and went deep in just about every tournament he entered - isn’t that enough?
 
Federev said:
Say it isn't so.

But nothing Fed has shown since AO '18 says he's maintaining vs declining.

Rather it says he's amazing and still great, but he's running out of whatever brought him to near peak form at IW2017.

Of course, each year it gets harder and more inevitable. But most of 2017 & AO'18 was pure magic. It was like the finale of the greatest 4th of July fireworks show.

But since then - and even in hints before (remember WTF '17?) - its been a downward trend.

We're a little sore from SW19, so let's say v. Anderson was a bad day.

But honestly, Fed fan, ...can you see Fed holding off a resurgent Novak at USO - or even necessarily a strong Nadal showing? I don't see it as likely.

Rather, I can see him being humbled and overwhelmed by Delpo and Cilic and perhaps a resurgent Stan.

Maybe I am just the Eeyore of Fed fans, but if I had to bet I would say this is actually finally the beginning of the sunset.

I don't want it to be true, but can anyone give realistic evidence-based hope?
Click to expand...

Sadly, he is not playing as well as he did in the first half of 2017. Rosset (?) was right in saying that he has reverted to being too passive. He was playing from the baseline too much and for some reason his forehand was working too well.
I say him play in Stuttgart, where I felt more optimistic, but even there he was only just containing a Kyrgios who was - for once - really trying. For numerous passages during the match K was out running and out manoeuvring Federer and he came out on top because he volleyed more.
But I shall never understand anyone who doesn't acknowledge that his STYLE OF PLAY generally and its 'artistry' (hackneyed word) is far superior to that of any other player in the last 15 years or so. Nadal and particularly Djokovic play ugly tennis, Djokovic's movements however gymnastic and amazing are truly ugly to watch and I do not see how anyone could prefer his robotic style and metronomic accuracy superior to the creativity of Federer's way of playing.
 
nochweiterroger said:
Sadly, he is not playing as well as he did in the first half of 2017. Rosset (?) was right in saying that he has reverted to being too passive. He was playing from the baseline too much and for some reason his forehand was working too well.
I say him play in Stuttgart, where I felt more optimistic, but even there he was only just containing a Kyrgios who was - for once - really trying. For numerous passages during the match K was out running and out manoeuvring Federer and he came out on top because he volleyed more.
But I shall never understand anyone who doesn't acknowledge that his STYLE OF PLAY generally and its 'artistry' (hackneyed word) is far superior to that of any other player in the last 15 years or so. Nadal and particularly Djokovic play ugly tennis, Djokovic's movements however gymnastic and amazing are truly ugly to watch and I do not see how anyone could prefer his robotic style and metronomic accuracy superior to the creativity of Federer's way of playing.
Click to expand...
I don't know if I would say "ugly", but for sure I find Novak's movement mostly uninteresting even if it is amazingly effective. Nadal looked fierce to me and pretty cool at SW19 this year.

But I agree that Fed's 5-4-3-2-1-BLAST OFF forehand and his eagle spreading its wings Backhand win hands down.
 
Define "the end"

Also, define "the beginning"

Because honestly, I think it started a long time ago

For a long time he was good enough to beat everyone besides his main rivals, but now he's starting to lose to also-rans on his own pet Slam.
 
I won't be calling any embassies yet, but Fed's groundstrokes were really worrying all tournament. The feet just weren't moving fast enough. The steps were short but too slow and ploddy. He wasn't into position for a lot of basic rally balls so he was playing a lot of whippy, bent-arm FHs and a lot of half-swing BHs that had no pace or penetration or angle. There was a lot of very shaky stuff where 6 or 7 out of 10 balls were ordinary but he got organised enough on the rest to get away with it.

It took someone hitting with the pace of Anderson to expose it. He wasn't even redirecting the pace well, which has been a signature of his defensive game. He seemed a bit distracted and disinterested frankly, and I didn't find the chum jetzes that convincing either. I get the feeling that Fed had somehow convinced himself that these groundstrokes would work and were working, which is truly bizarre. I watched the match again last night and I still have no idea how he could just drift off like that and not finish Anderson off. Maybe the $300m went to his head.
 
Federev said:
Say it isn't so.

But nothing Fed has shown since AO '18 says he's maintaining vs declining.

Rather it says he's amazing and still great, but he's running out of whatever brought him to near peak form at IW2017.

Of course, each year it gets harder and more inevitable. But most of 2017 & AO'18 was pure magic. It was like the finale of the greatest 4th of July fireworks show.

But since then - and even in hints before (remember WTF '17?) - its been a downward trend.

We're a little sore from SW19, so let's say v. Anderson was a bad day.

But honestly, Fed fan, ...can you see Fed holding off a resurgent Novak at USO - or even necessarily a strong Nadal showing? I don't see it as likely.

Rather, I can see him being humbled and overwhelmed by Delpo and Cilic and perhaps a resurgent Stan.

Maybe I am just the Eeyore of Fed fans, but if I had to bet I would say this is actually finally the beginning of the sunset.

I don't want it to be true, but can anyone give realistic evidence-based hope?
Click to expand...

I am a bit pessimistic too. Since AO 2018 he hasn't been quite the same.
As Marc Rosset (I think) has said recently, he's reverted to being too passive.
I saw him at Stuttgart and felt more optimistic. Against Kyrgios - who really tried and took the match seriously - Fed only just kept ahead and was frequently bettered in baseline exchanges. K had him dashing all over the place. Fed won by going to the net. I didn't see that happening at Halle or Wimbledon.
Mannarino didn't turn up for the first set. It could easily have gone to 4 sets.
I didn't watch much of the Anderson match, but Fed looked tired.
A good first set against an opponent who hasn't got his head around playing Federer yet, followed by a fade has become a not uncommon scenario.
BUT he is still the greatest player, NOT because of the statistics, but because of HIS STYLE OF PLAY.
He is the one who plays tennis as it should be played
 
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