Your second statement is rather vague. How would they match up?Peak Bruguera vs peak Federer on clay, I´ll always take Sergi.Hands down.
None of both at their peak, I´ll always take Federer.Hands down.
Sergi had a mental problem with him.Far more talented but seemed unable to beat Muster.Muster didn´t have a good serve but his volleying was not bad.
He still had a solid career.one of the unluckiest tennis players of all time.
Your second statement is rather vague. How would they match up?
Bruguera cc peak matches Kuerten
but he lacked focus and could play shank tennis and the difference between his peak play and off zone play is much bigger than Federer' s
A lot of this misconception was Agassi's fault. Agassi said clay was like a different sport and disrespected Muster. Of course Agassi said all this BEFORE he won RG.
Most overrated is Kuerten IMO.
Funny because he embarrassed Peak Federer at RG.
Peak Bruguera vs peak Federer on clay, I´ll always take Sergi.Hands down.
None of both at their peak, I´ll always take Federer.Hands down.
Rome 2006 final
Peak Roger versus peak Rafa on clay, and Roger was just one point away from winning that five set thrilller.
In 2007 he actually bageled Rafa on clay
Rome 2006 final
Peak Roger versus peak Rafa on clay, and Roger was just one point away from winning that five set thrilller.
I don' t see where Muster récord is better than Kodes and where Rosewall' s only open era cc récord is anything close to Nastase or Orantes
Borg?Kodes was never the best clay courter in the world. The two years he won RG the best clay courter of that particular year wasn't playing. Muster was considered by far the best clay courter of 95-96, despite not winning RG in 96. That is the difference between them IMO.
You could be right on Nastase but Orantes was also never considered the worlds best clay courter, and never won RG. He did win the U.S Open on green clay once, but even then I don't think he would be considered as above Borg overall on clay.
Borg?
We compare Orantes vs Open era Rosewall on cc
Both won 1 GS and both lost one cc slam final in open era
But Orantes won far more top class cc events
In fact,as me stated in other threads,he won everything on clay but RG
Rosewall won RG twice in the Open Era didn't he?
N
1. Nadal
----mammoth gap-----
2. Borg
3. Lendl
4. Kuerten
5. Wilander
6. Vilas
7. Muster
8. Bruguera
9. Courier
10. Rosewall (factoring on in his open era clay play) or Laver (again factoring in only open era clay play)
I dont think he is either under or overrated. I think most rate him about right.
Thomas Muster is considered one of the greatest clay courters ever because he won 40 titles on the surface. But is his clay resume overrated considering how relatively mediocre he performed at the French Open? Apart from his 1995 title, he only made the it past the 4th round on two other occasions (1990 SF and 1998 QF). That means despite his clay prowess, he managed only 3 total trips to the FO QF stage. Compare that to a guy like Guillermo Vilas who also only had 1 FO title but made 3 other finals - losing to Borg twice and Wilanders once. The man backed up his clay accomplishments with deep runs at Roland Garros and only was prevented from multiple titles by all-time greats.
Nadal was much better in 2008, 2010, 2012, and 2007 on clay than 2006, so Rome 2006 final would hardly have been "peak Rafa". Even if that werent true, lets not create a fantasy that overall peak Federer = peak Rafa on clay. With a head to head of something like 1-6 on clay even in Federer's prime years (some vs teenaged Rafa) there is a huge gap. I venture to guess Muster could do atleast that well overall, if not slightly better. Muster could match Nadal's grinding ability, sliding proficiency on clay, fitness, consistency off the ground, and topspin, which Federer obviously cannot do any of.
As for Muster I would rate him as follows on clay in the open era:
1. Nadal
----mammoth gap-----
2. Borg
3. Lendl
4. Kuerten
5. Wilander
6. Vilas
7. Muster
8. Bruguera
9. Courier
10. Rosewall (factoring on in his open era clay play) or Laver (again factoring in only open era clay play)
I dont think he is either under or overrated. I think most rate him about right.
I don' t see where Muster récord is better than Kodes and where Rosewall' s only open era cc récord is anything close to Nastase or Orantes
All great clay-courters and I'm not going to nit-pick the rankings, except that the --- mammoth gap --- should be after Borg.
No it shouldnt be. Borg is nowhere near Nadal on clay in any sense at this point, and Rosewall could be argued to perhaps even be above Borg on clay (but he wont be only since Rosewall is so underrated regularly) so they are very close.
You are seriously underrating Borg here.No it shouldnt be. Borg is nowhere near Nadal on clay in any sense at this point, and Rosewall could be argued to perhaps even be above Borg on clay (but he wont be only since Rosewall is so underrated regularly) so they are very close.
If Borg and Nadal played in the same age time i really think that Borg is in the same level as Nadal.
But i think i 1988 Wilander would beat both Nadal and Borg
You are seriously underrating Borg here.
ravelok, I would rank Rosewall ahead of at least Bruguera and Courier.
You could be right. I honestly dont know as much about Rosewall's Open Era only (more familiar with his pre Open era) clay achievements as you probably would. I know he won only 1 French, but he did win alot of other clay tournaments, and like many at the time was not playing the French as often due to the big money exhibitions which were in fact more important than the French and Australian back then.
Muster was not overrated but it's a fair question why he didn't do better at the French Open. I think part of the problem was one leg being shorter than the other due to the accident caught up to him and his abysmal record against attacking players.
Yeah, he used to have a hard time with Courier, who attacked him by taking the ball off the rise, and Sampras and Stich got him by attacking at the net. That said, he accomplished everything he wanted to, i.e. FO, #1, and winning where he got injured.
Oh! You may not know how right you are.:wink:Seems Austrians are very stubborn
I cringed when I saw he would be playing Edberg. He used to beat Muster like a rented mule.
But I do believe Muster maximized his talents. Both the 1995 French Open and 1997 Players Championship were great moments for him.
Seems Austrian are very stubborn
Remember Nick Lauda?
Oh! You may not know how right you are.:wink: