Is USTA League 40+ going back to 5 courts?

schmke

Legend
It is still very early in the year, and I'm only looking at leagues that have started play, but I show very few doing 1/4.

Sections with some (but not all) 1/4 are Florida, Hawaii, Missouri Valley, New England, Northern, Southern, and Texas.

I don't show any others with any 1/4 leagues, but again some may not have started yet. I do see a variety of 1/3 and 2/3 but also some 1/2 for the lower/higher levels where they use the 3 court format.
 

LOBALOT

Legend
It is still very early in the year, and I'm only looking at leagues that have started play, but I show very few doing 1/4.

Sections with some (but not all) 1/4 are Florida, Hawaii, Missouri Valley, New England, Northern, Southern, and Texas.

I don't show any others with any 1/4 leagues, but again some may not have started yet. I do see a variety of 1/3 and 2/3 but also some 1/2 for the lower/higher levels where they use the 3 court format.

We are going 1/4 as I understand it. We haven't started yet (Mid May) but you know my district/section from previous messages.
 

jhick

Hall of Fame
FWIW, I noticed in my northern section (MN Twin Cities), there is now 1 line for singles and 4 lines for doubles for 40+.
 

loveallcats

Rookie
Our club doesn't have many singles players female 4.5 so we like the current format (1s, 3d), but it would be better if doubles were weighted so you don't end up counting sets / games.

I heard in some sections they weight the D courts.
 

romano

New User
Our club doesn't have many singles players female 4.5 so we like the current format (1s, 3d), but it would be better if doubles were weighted so you don't end up counting sets / games.

I heard in some sections they weight the D courts.
NorCal counts D1 as 2 points, S, D2 and D3 are 1 point each. Standings based on total points. I like it, D1 is typically always a good match as no one flips that line!
 

jhick

Hall of Fame
Is it just me, or does the elimination of a singles line in 40+ smack of ageism? I'm a 52 yr old primarily singles player, and this change really irks me.
It makes sense, especially at 4.5 and above. Congrats to you for playing singles, but for higher levels, it's not that easy for many to compete at singles against high level young players.
 

Fighting phoenix

Professional
It makes sense, especially at 4.5 and above. Congrats to you for playing singles, but for higher levels, it's not that easy for many to compete at singles against high level young players.
Yeah exactly, which is why it would be great for me to compete against 40+ singles players vs. the young guys in the 18+ leagues - super fun, but I'm on the edge of 4.5 now and would love to keep playing singles at a high level against guys closer to my age.
 

LOBALOT

Legend
Is it just me, or does the elimination of a singles line in 40+ smack of ageism? I'm a 52 yr old primarily singles player, and this change really irks me.

I am a measly 3.5 but I have a whole cadre of 40+ singles guys fighting to play each match our team plays. We would much prefer 2 courts of singles and frankly it would help our team.

You can call us an odd lot but when I march those guys out in 55+ without a singles court they are lost and I have to sit them because the whole 3 courts of dubs thing is really stupid and hard to captain.

You can't take a chance with your lineup in 55+ because one mistake and boom you lose the match as most matches are 2-1, 1-2 and very tight.
 

jhick

Hall of Fame
Yeah exactly, which is why it would be great for me to compete against 40+ singles players vs. the young guys in the 18+ leagues - super fun, but I'm on the edge of 4.5 now and would love to keep playing singles at a high level against guys closer to my age.
There is still one singles spot and you can still play tournaments with age requirements. The reality is that there are not many older guys competing at high level singles. At lower levels I can understand the argument.
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
All the doubles matches are done and the singles matches are half way through second set. Unless the players are cross country runners they are not having fun - they are just trying to push through. thus the only people who sign up are cross country runners - other people over forty are just not interested.

I know some - especially people who are under 40 or cross country runner types - will complain. But playing no ad makes singles play much more bearable - and predictable time wise. 2 singles courts no ad tennis for 40 and over would work just fine. If you want the whole endurance test you can play singles in 18 and over.

I almost stopped playing singles altogether after some grueling usta matches. But realized the no ad league is still more tiring then doubles but not ridiculously so.
 

atatu

Legend
All the doubles matches are done and the singles matches are half way through second set. Unless the players are cross country runners they are not having fun - they are just trying to push through. thus the only people who sign up are cross country runners - other people over forty are just not interested.

I know some - especially people who are under 40 or cross country runner types - will complain. But playing no ad makes singles play much more bearable - and predictable time wise. 2 singles courts no ad tennis for 40 and over would work just fine. If you want the whole endurance test you can play singles in 18 and over.

I almost stopped playing singles altogether after some grueling usta matches. But realized the no ad league is still more tiring then doubles but not ridiculously so.
You're talking about women's leagues right ?
 

cks

Hall of Fame
All the doubles matches are done and the singles matches are half way through second set. Unless the players are cross country runners they are not having fun - they are just trying to push through. thus the only people who sign up are cross country runners - other people over forty are just not interested.
Singles and doubles are different. I happen to enjoy both. And I do know some, not a lot, of players over 40 who still enjoy singles, including myself.

But playing no ad makes singles play much more bearable
Not for me.
2 singles courts no ad tennis for 40 and over would work just fine.
No thank you. However, 55+ is just 3 lines of doubles, and no singles. For 40+ leagues, 2s 3d > 1s 4d > 1s 3d.
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
Singles and doubles are different. I happen to enjoy both. And I do know some, not a lot, of players over 40 who still enjoy singles, including myself.


Not for me.

No thank you. However, 55+ is just 3 lines of doubles, and no singles. For 40+ leagues, 2s 3d > 1s 4d > 1s 3d.

I understand your perspective. But I think this is a matter of the perfect being the enemy of the good. Like you say one singles match for 40 and over and none for 55+. 3 doubles just means you need a larger team to take to regionals and state and often it is
announced so late it is a scramble to get 3 doubles and one singles court.



In colder climates no indoor courts want to hold a court for this amount of time and the whole test of endurance (rather then tennis) is not appealing to many players especially older ones. When you get to regionals and nationals and want to see if people can play double headers singles matches or that might go 2.5 hours each it gets ridiculous.



In chess they had to start using clocks because one side instead of out playing the other would try to "out sit" the other by taking so long with their move the other side just got exhausted. I realize these matches are a breeze compared to full 3 sets or the pro 5 sets. (although not if you are expecting to play a double header) But lots of the guys on these leagues are not pro or college athletes and are just trying to play for fun. By the end of many of these matches few are playing crisp tennis but instead are just slogging through it. That is why few- outside of the cross country types - are interested.
 

cks

Hall of Fame
When you get to regionals and nationals and want to see if people can play double headers singles matches or that might go 2.5 hours each it gets ridiculous.
True. I've been to sectionals once, and I played 2 singles matches that first day. It was pretty rough and I told my captain I would only play one single match per day in the Texas heat (August). I think if I was in better physical shape, I could have played two singles matches that second day.
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
You're talking about women's leagues right ?
No I don't know about the women's matches. Women have more slow twitch muscles then men so I would think they would not mind the longer singles matches as much as men who have a higher percentage of fast twitch muscles.

"Perhaps most notably, women tend to have about 27 to 35 percent more type I muscle fibers than men."

https://www.livestrong.com/article/355987-female-male-muscles/

Type 1 muscles are the slow twitch - better for endurance then the type 2 fast twitch burst strength/bulkier muscles men have more of.
 

netlets

Professional
they need to go back to the + leagues at 4.5 where two 5.0s can play in a match and you have 2 singles and 3 doubles. this allows more opportunity for 5.0 40+ players to play.
Exactly. I haven’t played on a league team since 2016 - need to be on a 4.5+ team as there are no 5.0 leagues near me. Also, should be 2 singles and three dubs - fewer people and allows more singles players to play. Really dislike 4 doubles teams - ughhh.
 

Fighting phoenix

Professional
Exactly. I haven’t played on a league team since 2016 - need to be on a 4.5+ team as there are no 5.0 leagues near me. Also, should be 2 singles and three dubs - fewer people and allows more singles players to play. Really dislike 4 doubles teams - ughhh.
Totally agree - people bumped to 5.0 get stuck in purgatory, and 40+ isn’t geriatric and no reason why we can’t have two singles lines!
 

Roforot

Hall of Fame
3 dubs and 2 singles here in Southern CA. I'm getting in better shape in case I need to put down singles duty. Slightly tweaked my hamstring the other day... other than that though I feel my conditioning and movement has been great.

edit -- My bad, this is 18+ not 40.
 
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Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
“Cross country types”? Well, yes I suppose that old fat guys don’t like singles. But if you are old, fat, and don’t want to move around then go play pickle ball
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
“Cross country types”? Well, yes I suppose that old fat guys don’t like singles. But if you are old, fat, and don’t want to move around then go play pickle ball

Sprinters and other top athletes are not old or fat, even though they are not like the rail thin cross country types you see competing at the top level of endurance sports like marathons. A football linebacker or running back is not someone who is old or fat.

If you play singles with no ad you play for about an hour and a half. That is plenty of running to make it hard for the fat old guys to compete. But when you get beyond that it has less to do with athleticism and more to do with having as little muscle on your body as possible. That might be fine for the pros that want to do all they can to improve. But for adult rec men it is not ideal. Keeping some muscle mass is good for you.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
I understand your perspective. But I think this is a matter of the perfect being the enemy of the good. Like you say one singles match for 40 and over and none for 55+. 3 doubles just means you need a larger team to take to regionals and state and often it is
announced so late it is a scramble to get 3 doubles and one singles court.



In colder climates no indoor courts want to hold a court for this amount of time and the whole test of endurance (rather then tennis) is not appealing to many players especially older ones. When you get to regionals and nationals and want to see if people can play double headers singles matches or that might go 2.5 hours each it gets ridiculous.



In chess they had to start using clocks because one side instead of out playing the other would try to "out sit" the other by taking so long with their move the other side just got exhausted. I realize these matches are a breeze compared to full 3 sets or the pro 5 sets. (although not if you are expecting to play a double header) But lots of the guys on these leagues are not pro or college athletes and are just trying to play for fun. By the end of many of these matches few are playing crisp tennis but instead are just slogging through it. That is why few- outside of the cross country types - are interested.
Par for the course, but pretty much everything you said there is 100% wrong.
 

silentkman

Hall of Fame
Sprinters and other top athletes are not old or fat, even though they are not like the rail thin cross country types you see competing at the top level of endurance sports like marathons. A football linebacker or running back is not someone who is old or fat.

If you play singles with no ad you play for about an hour and a half. That is plenty of running to make it hard for the fat old guys to compete. But when you get beyond that it has less to do with athleticism and more to do with having as little muscle on your body as possible. That might be fine for the pros that want to do all they can to improve. But for adult rec men it is not ideal. Keeping some muscle mass is good for you.
wrong
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
The 40 and over 3.0 and 3.5 going to state both share players but the state schedule makes it impossible for people to play on both teams. So my 3.0 team will need to default a court and the 3.5 team will have the bare minimum 9 players for both rounds of state they have to play.
 
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