Is UTR accurate in comparing juniors, college players, and internationals?

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Junior tennis players are told to look for a college that is a good fit tennis wise so they wont sit on the bench. One suggested measurement is using UTR, e.g. look at the UTR of the top 6 players on college teams of interest and see how junior players' UTRs compare. I think jr to jr is fairly accurate though 30 matches is not enough for juniors-my son may play 30 matches in 2 busy months if he plays several 64 or 128 draws. College players may play less than 30 matches fall and spring season. Do any of you have an opinion on whether UTR is valid comparing jrs vs college players and internationals? There is limited crossplay except for ITFs, and a few juniors playing ITA summer competitions. Juniors who attend regular school cant play ITFs; in our section there were quite a few players at KZoo 16s that attend regular school (half day) and play high school tennis.

If any of you are college coaches reading this, do you think UTR or TRN is more accurate? I have heard UTR is used more in California and the Northeast than in the rest of the US. If coaches see it as accurate, then there is less pressure on players to miss several days of school to play an ITF so they can be compared to international players. I do think UTR may be overstated for juniors; most of the rising jr 4 star TRN 80-130 players rising juniors I know are ranked 11.6-12.4 and there are college players at mid tier school ranked in a similar range, and I am not sure these juniors are truly competitive with guys who have 2 years college playing experience. These juniors may have defeated some guys who are committed freshmen for D1, but that is different than playing guys with college experience. Many of these rising juniors were in the 10=10.5 UTR range as sophs so there is a high likelihood that many will have UTRs of 12.7-13 by summer before their senior year if their UTR increases .7-1.3 each year.

One other question, a lot of teams with rosters of players in the 11.5-13 range are 75% or more international players. If a US junior is in that range and the school is of interest, should the junior Email the coach? Are US players happy if there are only 1-2 Americans playing on the team? My son is looking at teams that are 50/50 but that really cuts down on the number of teams he can contact. I have heard many teams that are mostly international players have connections with academies in certain areas of the world, and there was no point in contacting those coaches. However there may be some schools that recruit internationals because they have not had success recruiting Americans. When my son contacted private D2 coaches, they were glad to hear from him.

Many US academies now have visiting international players and some are better and some are less talented than Americans. I have heard college coaches prefer internationals because of their maturity and work ethic. However, I think our US juniors work hard. Some tournaments they play two 3 sets matches WITH ADS (could take 3.5 hours for one) and 2 doubles in one day-occasionally they may do that two days in a row until they are exhausted and end up in the backdraw. Sometimes they compete those number of hours in 90+ degree heat. My son came in 2nd in a 3 1/2 day long 64 draw high level sectional tournament playing 6 singles and some dubs finishing at 8pm on a Monday night (sick school day), and Wed afternoon he defeated a top 100 TRN senior in a high school match and then had to catch up on schoolwork before another tournament the next weekend. His teammate played 10 matches over 4 days to win a backdraw at a high level sectional on a weekend + one "sick day" in the middle of state playoffs. Again one day off from tourney and then a big playoff match. These guys are passionate about tennis; they go to a academically high ranked public school, play tennis, do homework and that is about it. They take two virtual classes and do 2 weeks of work on one weekend on the weekends that dont have tournaments.Between high school tennis and tournaments, they may play 20+ matches in a single month, and the 1S and 2S matches are not cream puffs-they are playing 3-5 stars in a high school match. To me that is a great work ethic.

Do you think UTR in the future might encourage coaches who currently are mainly interested in internationals or US players with ITF points to take another look at American juniors? From what I have seen public D2s are not interested in US players at all; I have heard of coaches who did not answer Emails or phone calls from in state US juniors in similar UTR range as their current players. Junior players keep hearing at USTA forums to be open to playing at schools besides D1, but unless players are looking at private schools, I think players have a lower chance of playing D2 public schools than D1 public universities. Do you concur that the top D2 schools are almost all international players? Other than playing ITFs and/or hitting with international juniors at US academies, what is the best way for US juniors to show college coaches that they are ready and able to compete with international college players and that they will be hardworking teammates to international players on their own team?
 

andfor

Legend
You've got a lot going on here. But I say that UTR is a excellent tool in gauging a players ability JR and Open. If the player has enough matches to have 100% accuracy it's predictability is pretty good. My analysis is observational, I haven't seen a bunch of numbers crunched behind it. I'd bet it's very closely accurate.

Regarding your player wanting to play college, your observations on internationals and coaches are close to correct. I see a couple of things in college tennis and the recruiting process. 1. Many coaches (Mid-major D1 and DII) recruit internationals because those players have less bias about where they will play and get their education. 2. International players are more committed (I'm generalizing from a coaches perspective) to play tennis and get their degree at the same time. They have less options, can't go home. i.e. failure is not an option. Coaches see them often as easier to coach. 3. American kids don't try hard enough or are open minded enough during the recruiting process. They need to be proactive in contacting more schools/coaches. Many coaches with heavy international rosters would love more quality American players, but they have such a hard time getting them. 3. UTR is a good tool in gauging appx. playing level compared to incoming recruits.

Got to go. Let me know if you want to talk more.
 
. Many coaches with heavy international rosters would love more quality American players, but they have such a hard time getting them.

I think andfor is spot on with his reply. There are many D1 mid-majors with UTR ~11.5 players at the bottom of the roster. They would love to have more interest from US players but cannot effectively recruit them. Send some emails and good luck.
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Thanks andfor and justinmadison for your responses. My son's initial Emails to a few schools with 50/50 rosters have been fruitful-ongoing conversations with unofficial visits taken or scheduled, tournament matches watched at his request. I asked about UTR because recruiting articles say to contact 8-20 schools. If he includes schools with mostly foreign rosters, he can find enough with the desired criteria of geographical, academic/major, and tennis fit. He can Email those schools and see if he gets a reply. I do find it ironic that some in state public D2 schools will not respond to US recruits; the coach of an in state public D2 didn't return calls from a senior who is the UTR level of the team's line 3. Maybe that coach already had his global pipeline. It is unfortunate when some instate schools turn their noses up at qualified in state students. Some good players play USTA club tennis on campus instead of collegiate tennis as it would cost them more even with a partial scholarship to go out of state to play. US players may not get the in state tuition waivers that internationals do (common for public D2).

My son is openminded, and his recruiting process will be easier for D1 after Sept 1 when he can be emailed or called back. While my son and his rising junior 4 star buddies may be 11.6-12.4s now, they certainly expect to be higher next spring and summer when recruiting peaks. Their path is less obvious than their blue chip and 5 star classmates who will probably play for top D1 schools. However I do believe they all can find a good fit school if they dont focus on schools that are unrealistic. Hopefully if they use UTR, TRN and common sense, they wont make that mistake.
 

andfor

Legend
Sounds as if your son will have options. The fact he's reaching out to a number of schools is definitely a good thing. That stinks when a coach won't return the contact. If there's a coach that won't respond to email, have you tried calling? It not, see if you can find the coaches phone number(s) on their website. If your player initiates the call the coach, I believe the coach can accept calls and talk with the player anytime. If your son gets a voicemail leave them a message and let them know when he will call the coach back (date and time), then be sure to follow through with the follow up call. Coaches just can't initiate the contact during dead periods. Try old fashion snail mail if you have a school you have not heard from and want to talk with. Maybe even try FedEx'ing them a letter and video, that will get their attention. Last tip, if there's an asst. coach, reach out to them as well if not getting a response from the head coach. Often the assistants are as involved or more so in the recruiting process and may be easier to get in touch with. Good luck and remain persistent in your sons proactive activity during the recruiting process. He's going to get a scholarship and end up somewhere that make him happy.
 
Junior tennis players are told to look for a college that is a good fit tennis wise so they wont sit on the bench. One suggested measurement is using UTR, e.g. look at the UTR of the top 6 players on college teams of interest and see how junior players' UTRs compare....

jcgatennismom, we would like to wish your son the best of success during his college tennis recruiting efforts.

Please keep in mind that the Universal Tennis Rating (UTR) system measures a player's current level of competitiveness. Many college coaches use the UTR system to augment their decision making process to determine if a recruit as the right fit for their team, with the recruit's UTR being just the starting point for their selection criteria.

For others reading this post, here is the link to the 'Using UTRs to find your college tennis fit' article: https://goo.gl/WR5fgY

Plus, you can find out what some college coaches think about the UTR system at: http://ow.ly/Pv86L
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
jcgatennismom, we would like to wish your son the best of success during his college tennis recruiting efforts.

Please keep in mind that the Universal Tennis Rating (UTR) system measures a player's current level of competitiveness. Many college coaches use the UTR system to augment their decision making process to determine if a recruit as the right fit for their team, with the recruit's UTR being just the starting point for their selection criteria.

For others reading this post, here is the link to the 'Using UTRs to find your college tennis fit' article: https://goo.gl/WR5fgY

Plus, you can find out what some college coaches think about the UTR system at: http://ow.ly/Pv86L

UniversalTennis.com
Redefining tennis. Worldwide.
Thanks for the helpful links. Does your system have the capacity to show predictive or historical trends? Behind the scenes of the software, are all players in one bucket, or are they identified as junior player, college player, international junior, pro, etc? For example, it would help juniors looking for colleges to see broad historic trends or forecasts, e.g. if a player was a 10 as a soph, he has x % chance of being an 11, y % chance of being a 12, z % chance of being a 13 by the time he graduates. Since my son played the same tournament 2 summers in a row that used UTR for selection, we were able to track his UTR change. He had a big jump in one year (1.3) which I assume is not typical but I am hoping to see .5-1.0 change over the next year. I assume as players reach higher levels the positive changes are smaller, e.g. it is a lot harder to move from a 13 to 13.5 than it is to move from a 10 to an 11.

One other question, did UTR do a downward adjustment of most juniors in July? We upgraded to the decimal UTR in April or May, and we were tracking some juniors and college teams on the dashboard. Almost all the juniors went down .2-1.0 in a 6 week period with the average going down .3 or .4. Even players who went up on TRN went down on UTR. The biggest changes were for 16s and under players. Most of the 18s players only went down .2. At the same time, some college players who had not played matches since April went up .2-.5. Was this a planned correction of overstated juniors or did the system automatically adjust as there was some crossplay between juniors and college players in the summer? I think the newer lower numbers for juniors are probably more realistic. I wish there were opportunities for college/junior crossplay during the year-esp in the fall- instead of just ITA events during the summer or men's tournaments. I have heard of at least one fall college invitational (not D1) that lets a few juniors fill empty spots in the B and C draw. It would be great if more invitationals reserved up to 1/8 of their B and C draws for strong local juniors. Coaches who were already there would see junior players, and junior players would get a reality check on their college competitiveness. The top juniors already know where they stand but it would help the 4 stars and maybe some of the 3 and 5 stars gauge their level vs college players.
 

SStrikerR

Hall of Fame
I'll start off by saying that I like UTR, it's a nice system.

Now here's my advice: Stop paying so much attention to it. His goal should be improvement, not specific UTR ratings. Every player develops at different rates, and this can change wildly from year to year. If your son improves, his UTR will rise accordingly.
 

andfor

Legend
I'll start off by saying that I like UTR, it's a nice system.

Now here's my advice: Stop paying so much attention to it. His goal should be improvement, not specific UTR ratings. Every player develops at different rates, and this can change wildly from year to year. If your son improves, his UTR will rise accordingly.

For me, I appreciate your message. Focus on working hard and improving every day with a good attitude, should always be the primary focus. I agree worrying too much about where the actual ranking is can be counterproductive to the players development. But for this kid, it sounds like he's a boarderline top DI, strong mid-major DI, high DII prospect. Trying to figure out where to spend time in the college recruiting process and to have an idea where you fit in is a worthwhile effort when targeting schools to talk with.
 
Top