Is Wawrinka now a better player than Murray?

Jokervich

Jokervich

Hall of Fame
I believe he is now. He's won 2 slams - equal to what Murray's achieved. He's beaten Djokovic twice in slams in the last 2 years - 2014 Australian Open (the slam where Djokovic has pretty much crushed everyone from 2011 onwards) and 2015 French Open, as well as almost beating him in the 2013 US Open (was up 2 sets to 1 in that semi final). With Nadal in poor form, Wawrinka is the only player who can realistically beat Djokovic over 5 sets right now. On his way to the French Open title, Wawrinka also demolished Federer in straight sets and had to beat Nadal in the Australian Open final back when Nadal was actually good.

Compare that to Murray - since 2013 Wimbledon (a final in which Djokovic played pretty poorly, you have to admit), he's been crushed by Djokovic and Federer. He holds a 1-9 record over Djokovic and a 0-5 record over Federer since 2013 Wimbledon, including a loss in straight sets at Wimbledon this year. A guy who's supposed to be at the peak of his career gets crushed on home turf by an almost 34 year old has-been. He's also routinely struggled against Nadal in slams. The one (and only) time he beat Nadal in a slam was in the 2008 US Open, 7 years ago (2010 Australian Open doesn't count because Nadal retired as injured).

As far as head to heads are concerned, Wawrinka has beaten Murray in their last 2 slam meetings. The last one at the US Open was a crushing straight sets victory where Murray only won 9 games.

It amazes me that Murray is talked of as the better player, when this simply isn't the case. The evidence is plain and clear that Wawrinka is now the better player.
 
Ooookkkayyy...so remind me again why Murray has 35 titles and Stan has only 10? Why Murray has 11 career wins over Federer and Stan has only 3? Why Murray has 9 career wins including TWO Slam finals against Djokovic and Stan has only 4 and 1? Why Murray has beaten Federer in 3 big finals and Stan hasn't beaten him in any? Why Murray has beaten Djokovic in 5 big finals and Stan has beaten him only once? Why you make excuses for Djokovic at 2013 Wimbledon but choose to ignore Nadal's medical timeout and injury at 2014 AO? :rolleyes:

But I suspect you know all this already, don't you? I suspect you don't even like Stan very much but are just using him to have a go at Murray because you don't like Andy very much, do you? You're just the latest in a long line of trolls who think they can use another player who happens to be playing well to somehow cast doubt on the real target of this pathetic little thread of your's.

I'm right, aren't I? Thought so!

Now troll off and let the proper posters on here post some interesting and worthwhile threads!
 
I forgot tennis started in 2014. Are you for real? How many Masters 1000s does Wawrinka have? 1. Murray? Like 11. On top of that he made 8 slam finals and had, up until recently, even H2Hs with Fed and Novak. THE UNDERRATING OF MURRAY HERE IS REAL.
 
NBP said:
I forgot tennis started in 2014. Are you for real? How many Masters 1000s does Wawrinka have? 1. Murray? Like 11. On top of that he made 8 slam finals and had, up until recently, even H2Hs with Fed and Novak. THE UNDERRATING OF MURRAY HERE IS REAL.
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QFT! The OP is just a typical Murray-hating troll. They pop up everywhere. Their agenda is so obvious!
 
jm1980 said:
Technically not correct. Murray has always trailed Novak
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Wow I didn't mean exactly even, I meant around an even one. He was 7-8 going into the Shanghai 2012 final which he actually held match points to go 8-8.
 
Mainad said:
QFT! The OP is just a typical Murray-hating troll. They pop up everywhere. Their agenda is so obvious!
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It's mad how people can say Wawrinka is better than Murray. I love Wawrinka, I really do but how is he better? Like how? 2-2 in slams, then go to the tie-break, and in nearly every single metric Murray is on top. Slam finals, semi-finals, consecutive quarterfinals, Masters 1000, H2H vs. the Big Three etc.
 
Cenarius said:
How many masters 1000 has won? That's right 1.Nice try keep playing.
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Mainad said:
Ooookkkayyy...so remind me again why Murray has 35 titles and Stan has only 10? Why Murray has 11 career wins over Federer and Stan has only 3? Why Murray has 9 career wins including TWO Slam finals against Djokovic and Stan has only 4 and 1? Why Murray has beaten Federer in 3 big finals and Stan hasn't beaten him in any? Why Murray has beaten Djokovic in 5 big finals and Stan has beaten him only once? Why you make excuses for Djokovic at 2013 Wimbledon but choose to ignore Nadal's medical timeout and injury at 2014 AO? :rolleyes:

But I suspect you know all this already, don't you? I suspect you don't even like Stan very much but are just using him to have a go at Murray because you don't like Andy very much, do you? You're just the latest in a long line of trolls who think they can use another player who happens to be playing well to somehow cast doubt on the real target of this pathetic little thread of your's.

I'm right, aren't I? Thought so!

Now troll off and let the proper posters on here post some interesting and worthwhile threads!
Click to expand...

NBP said:
I forgot tennis started in 2014. Are you for real? How many Masters 1000s does Wawrinka have? 1. Murray? Like 11. On top of that he made 8 slam finals and had, up until recently, even H2Hs with Fed and Novak. THE UNDERRATING OF MURRAY HERE IS REAL.
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The point is Wawrinka is a better player NOW. Who cares what happened years ago or how many Masters titles Murray has. I'm sure everyone would agree Djokovic is a better player than Federer, despite Federer holding 17 grand slams to Djokovic's 10. The past is the past. The present is what matters.
 
Jokervich said:
The point is Wawrinka is a better player NOW. Who cares what happened years ago or how many Masters titles Murray has. I'm sure everyone would agree Djokovic is a better player than Federer, despite Federer holding 17 grand slams to Djokovic's 10. The past is the past. The present is what matters.
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Absoloutely laughable. Djokovic is not, career wise, a better player than Federer. Now? Obviously he is, don't need Sherlock to tell you that. What kind of crap is that ''Who cares what happened years ago or how many Masters titles Murray has''. That's the whole point of this thread is it not lmfao.
 
Obvious troll thread is way too obvious. I stopped reading as soon as I saw "gets crushed on home turf by an almost 34 year old has-been".
 
As a Murray fan, I admit it's a possibility that shouldn't be discounted. Wawrinka seems to bring his best in slams and results wise has performed better in slams this year than Murray. Even last year he won a slam whilst Murray was never really close to winning one. Has he had a better career than Murray though? Definitely not. Hopefully Murray can get his form together in slams next year. He's doing pretty well in m1000's and everything below that.
 
Overall Murray has had the better career no question, but in the past few seasons Stan has been better regardless of the ranking system. Surprised Murray is ahead at the moment.

As from a technical standpoint, Wawrinka is better and the biggest favourite to win any title outside of Djokovic. Murray is more consistent which counts for something, but Wawrinka as of late has been the only one to hurt Djokovic at the slams.
 
Jokervich said:
The point is Wawrinka is a better player NOW. Who cares what happened years ago or how many Masters titles Murray has. I'm sure everyone would agree Djokovic is a better player than Federer, despite Federer holding 17 grand slams to Djokovic's 10. The past is the past. The present is what matters.
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Ok.As of now Wawrinka is playing better,but also as of now Murray has accomplish more than him.
 
Anaconda said:
Overall Murray has had the better career no question, but in the past few seasons Stan has been better regardless of the ranking system. Surprised Murray is ahead at the moment.

As from a technical standpoint, Wawrinka is better and the biggest favourite to win any title outside of Djokovic. Murray is more consistent which counts for something, but Wawrinka as of late has been the only one to hurt Djokovic at the slams.
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Why? Murray is far more consistent throughout the season and always has been.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Why? Murray is far more consistent throughout the season and always has been.
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Because Wawrinka has posted significantly better slam results including a slam win, and Murray has only managed 1 ms title. When Murray was ahead of jmdp in 2009 it was due to the fact he was winning ms events and doing better than him in two of the majors.

Wawrinka has clearly been the second best player since; 2 slam titles, an ms title, deep runs elsewhere. Like you said he is inconsistent but i don't think Murray fans can argue this. Murray has had the better career. Wawrinka fans Can't argue this either.
 
Anaconda said:
Because Wawrinka has posted significantly better slam results including a slam win, and Murray has only managed 1 ms title. When Murray was ahead of jmdp in 2009 it was due to the fact he was winning ms events and doing better than him in two of the majors.

Wawrinka has clearly been the second best player since; 2 slam titles, an ms title, deep runs elsewhere. Like you said he is inconsistent but i don't think Murray fans can argue this. Murray has had the better career. Wawrinka fans Can't argue this either.
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Who cares if Wawrinka has posted better slam results when he's often crashing out of Masters tournaments in the early rounds to every Tom, Dick and Harry? The slams aren't the only tournaments and the ranking system rewards consistency throughout the year which is why Murray has nearly always been ahead of Stan since he turned professional.
 
No no don't worry guys tennis started on the 1st of January 2014. We live in a world were Cilic is as good as Nadal and Wawrinka is second in the GOAT debate.
 
Answer is Yes. Just too obvious. Stan is miles ahead comparing their GS results in last couple of years. Being a percentage baseliner contributes to Murray's consistency but yeah Ferrer has that kind of consistency too. Consistency of getting ass kicked by Big 3 (Big 2 now) in when it matters the most while Stan Wawrinka has established himself very consistent force in GS events and he has winning record (4-3) against Big 3 since beginning of his prime.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Who cares if Wawrinka has posted better slam results when he's often crashing out of Masters tournaments in the early rounds to every Tom, Dick and Harry?
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Well a lot of people are gonna care, because Slams are what people remember. Slams are what Murray should be winning more of. Let's say Murray ended with like 20 m1000's and a couple of slams and Wawrinka ended with around 4 slams and however much M100's he has (so irrelevant that I don't even know how much he has) then Murray would be seen as a guy that vastly underachieved on the big stage, and Wawrinka would be seen as someone that took his chances when he had them.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Who cares if Wawrinka has posted better slam results when he's often crashing out of Masters tournaments in the early rounds to every Tom, Dick and Harry? The slams aren't the only tournaments and the ranking system rewairds consistency throughout the year which is why Murray has nearly always been ahead of Stan since he turned professional.
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But Murray hasn't been racking up many titles either; if he had been, then i would understand.

What has Murray won in the past 2 seasons? 1 ms title. Nothing on Wawrinka. Wawrinka might have had some poor losses, but has some certo impressive wins. Murray otoh has one good title in Montreal.



You make it seem like Murray has only been losing to Djokovic this year and Wawrinka has been losing to 4.5 players....Kevin Anderson says hi. Some all time great that one is!
 
killerboi2 said:
Well a lot of people are gonna care, because Slams are what people remember. Slams are what Murray should be winning more of. Let's say Murray ended with like 20 m1000's and a couple of slams and Wawrinka ended with around 4 slams and however much M100's he has (so irrelevant that I don't even know how much he has) then Murray would be seen as a guy that vastly underachieved on the big stage, and Wawrinka would be seen as someone that took his chances when he had them.
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I mean in terms of the rankings, not the player's legacy.
 
I'll preface this answer by saying that I'm a Stan fan: no. While I think that Stan's zoning level is scarier than Murray's, the consistency just isn't there to support this notion. At least not yet.
 
Sirius Black said:
I'll preface this answer by saying that I'm a Stan fan: no. While I think that Stan's zoning level is scarier than Murray's, the consistency just isn't there to support this notion. At least not yet.
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He has posted very consistent results in GS events since his USO breakthrough though. Here is breakdown of his GS results in 2014-15:

2 Wins
2 SF
3 QF
1 R1 Loss.

2 WTF Semifinals.

Overall progressed to QF at least in 7/8 last GS events, just like Murray. On top of that he has 2 wins beating multiple ATG players in route on both occasions. He is not kind of player who brings his best Tennis for plenty of events in season but looking at stats above, you can feel sure about seeing him playing well for Slams and WTF at least. He is second most consistent player in biggest tournaments these days just behind Djokovic.
 
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Anaconda said:
But Murray hasn't been racking up many titles either; if he had been, then i would understand.

What has Murray won in the past 2 seasons? 1 ms title. Nothing on Wawrinka. Wawrinka might have had some poor losses, but has some certo impressive wins. Murray otoh has one good title in Montreal.
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Your usual bias against Murray shows yet again. He won nothing of significance in 2014 but we all know why that was. In 2015, he won 2 Masters titles (you forgot Madrid and don't give me guff about Nadal's form because he was playing well in Madrid) and made a final and 2 semis at the Slams!

Anaconda said:
You make it seem like Murray has only been losing to Djokovic this year and Wawrinka has been losing to 4.5 players....Kevin Anderson says hi. Some all time great that one is!
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Anderson, the same guy who took Djokovic to 5 sets at Wimbledon, is still ranked higher than Gasquet, Stan's conqueror at Wimbledon. Both players have had some shocking losses to much lower-ranked players this year but Stan's loss to Haase (ranked #104) still beats Murray's loss to Coric (ranled #84).
 
Mainad said:
Your usual bias against Murray shows yet again. He won nothing of significance in 2014 but we all know why that was. In 2015, he won 2 Masters titles (you forgot Madrid and don't give me guff about Nadal's form because he was playing well in Madrid) and made a final and 2 semis at the Slams!
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Rafa was not playing well at any point this season.
 
Mainad said:
He won nothing of significance in 2014 but we all know why that was. In 2015, he won 2 Masters titles (you forgot Madrid and don't give me guff about Nadal's form because he was playing well in Madrid) and made a final and 2 semis at the Slams!



Anderson, the same guy who took Djokovic to 5 sets at Wimbledon, is still ranked higher than Gasquet, Stan's conqueror at Wimbledon. Both players have had some shocking losses to much lower-ranked players this year but Stan's loss to Haase (ranked #104) still beats Murray's loss to Coric (ranled #84).
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Fair points, forgot about his clay ms, tbf I was completely stoned in that time. Nah no excuses here - he still beat Nadal on clay. Still doesn't stop me from regarding 2 slam wins higher than 2 ms wins.

Btw I'm not denying Wawrinka has poor losses. That djokovic fan is trying to say Murray has no poor losses which is wrong.
 
BringBackSV said:
Rafa was not playing well at any point this season.
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He has not been at the top of his form but Madrid was still his best tournament and the only Masters event this year where he made the final which he reached without dropping a set including against 2 top 10 seeded players.
 
D.Nalby12 said:
He has posted very consistent results in GS events since his USO breakthrough though. Here is breakdown of his GS results in 2014-15:

2 Wins
2 SF
3 QF
1 R1 Loss.

2 WTF Semifinals.

Overall progressed to QF at least in 7/8 last GS events, just like Murray. On top of that he has 2 wins beating multiple ATG players in route on both occasions. He is not kind of player who brings his best Tennis for plenty of events in season but looking at stats above, you can feel sure about seeing him playing well for Slams and WTF at least. He is second most consistent player in biggest tournaments these days just behind Djokovic.
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Fair enough.
 
Absolutely not. I was afraid this type of thread would come up when Waw won his 2nd slam and who he beat bla bla to win his slams.

Murray is a better player than Wawrinka and a far greater champion wich his merits shows. No question. He is also more talented. People get trolled away when they see Wawrinkas flashy shots but that is the only thing he can do.
 
2 slams + 6 extra finals
11 masters
1 OG
and a heck of other titles

Waw really has nothing on Murray and never will.
 
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RF-18 said:
Absolutely not. I was afraid this type of thread would come up when Waw won his 2nd slam and who he beat bla bla to win his slams.

Murray is a better player than Wawrinka and a far greater champion wich his merits shows. No question. He is also more talented. People get trolled away when they see Wawrinkas flashy shots but that is the only thing he can do.
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Is this fart or onion?
 
RF-18 said:
A fact. Look at their careers, but also their tennis. Clear as day Murray is more talented.


Actually I'm not sure why I'm even having this conversation.
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It's fact you can't judge talent level just by going with career achievements alone. I'm sure you'll disagree with me, if I apply similar logic to Nadal- Djokovic case.
 
Waw has nothing on Murray, but had to beat Djoker Nadal and Federer Djoker to win his slams. Murray only had to go through Novak both times, right?

Not saying Stan is a better player either...Not making any of those types of claims really, but I think it's a bit ridiculous to say it's not even close. To me, Stan has shown a higher level of play to win his slams than I've ever seen of Murray.
 
RF-18 said:
2 slams + 6 extra finals
10 masters
1 OG
and a heck of other titles

Waw really has nothing on Murray and never will.
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Can you even thread title? Nobody has said Wawrinka is better than Murray in terms of achievements now. Op just has said, he is better player than Murray right now based on his performance in GS events lately. He simply has bigger shot of winning those than Murray. It's just like Murray was better than him back in 2012.
 
Just looking at the title of the thread, I knew Mainad would be thriving under these conditions.

bruce-lee-kicks-o.gif
 
D.Nalby12 said:
Can you even thread title? Nobody has said Wawrinka is better than Murray in terms of achievements now. Op just has said, he is better player than Murray right now based on his performance in GS events lately. He simply has bigger shot of winning those than Murray. It's just like Murray was better than him back in 2012.
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Well he does bring in what both players have achieved, and says they are equal in terms of achievements. Then goes on to say who they beat, etc etc. Seems like he wants to compare them overall, and proceeds to say Waw is better.
 
I'd like to see a match between them atm, just not with a burnt out Murray.

Murray clearly has been the much better player over their careers. Wawrinka has the better 2015 due to the French Open, but Murray has the much more consistent 2015.

Does Wawrinka have "a higher top level" maybe. I'd like to see how the Murray/Djokovic match had gone without being paused.

I want to see them both this year have a match where neither is tired involving backhand to backhand rallies.
 
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