jmacdaununder2
Legend
Hewitt won two slams, Moya & ARod won one each and made additional finals.
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Is Zverev the best player to never win a slam?
- Thread starter TheNachoMan
- Start date
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Definitely tsonga may win a couple of slams in pathetic USOpen 2020 type field.
NonP
Legend
Like I said the other day Tanner is the one guy I can see winning a (de facto) Slam with a great degree of probability in a less loaded era. (I had Tsonga in mind as well but overlooked his chronic weight issues.) @Pro tennis historian's stats in his latest (self-published) book The All Time Greatest Servers made moi realize just how great that legendary lefty serve was. To almost match A-Rod's career aces/SG with wood (0.84 vs. 0.88) and indeed top Pistol's (0.80) by a fair margin... unreal.
If you insist on being anal and exclude Roscoe (and Vitas):
Achievements - Okker followed by Mecir and then by Leconte and Tsonga (tie), with honorable mentions to Curren and Philippoussis
Potential - Leconte, then Philippoussis
Okker's additional RU appearance at the '73 YEC (a de facto major then) and more extensive trophy collection give him the edge over Mecir who underperformed in both of his Fs. Y'all should be more familiar with the rest.
Zed doesn't make the cut when he's got all of 1 major F unlike those guys (sans Henri and Jo - yup both Frenchmen), won a pitiful 2 Slam matches against the top 10 and yet to reverse his history of choking. 2 YECs don't make up for those glaring holes cuz the event no longer carries half the same weight it used to.
That said:
Baghdatis - 2006 AO
Berasategui - 1994 RG
Berrettini - 2021 WIM
Coria - 2004 RG
Corretja - 2001 RG
Curren - 1983 AO*, 1985 WIM
P. Dent - 1974 AO*
Denton - 1981 AO*
Enqvist - 1999 AO
Kodeš - 1971/73 USO
Kyrgios - 2022 WIM
C. Lewis - 1983 WIM
J. Lloyd - 1977 AO (2)*
J. Marks - 1978 AO*
Martin - 1999 USO
A. Medvedev - 1999 RG
Norman - 2000 RG
Okker - 1968 USO
Parun - 1973 AO*
Pecci - 1979 RG
Philippoussis - 1998 USO
Pilić - 1973 RG*
Proisy - 1972 RG*
Puerta - 2005 RG
Roche** - 1969/70 USO
Ruud - 2022 USO
Rusedski - 1997 USO
H. Solomon - 1976 RG*
Tanner - 1979 WIM
Tsitsipas - 2021 RG
Tsonga - 2008 AO
A. Zverev - 2020 USO
Total appearances - 35
And the rest who couldn't/didn't (above multi-finalists who also meet this dubious criterion are included in brackets):
K. Anderson - 2017 USO, 2018 WIM
M. Anderson - 1972 AO*
Berdych - 2010 WIM
Clément - 2001 AO
[Corretja - 1998 RG]
Crealy - 1970 AO*
[Denton - 1982 AO*]
Ferrer - 2013 RG
Franulović - 1970 RG*
Gerulaitis - 1979 USO, 1980 RG
González - 2007 AO
Gottfried - 1977 RG*
Leconte - 1988 RG
[Martin - 1994 AO]
Mečíř - 1986 USO, 1989 AO*
Metreveli - 1973 WIM*
Nalbandian - 2002 WIM
Nishikori - 2014 USO
Pernfors - 1986 RG
[Philippoussis - 2003 WIM]
Pioline - 1993 USO, 1997 WIM
Raonic - 2016 WIM
Rios - 1998 AO
[Roche** - 1968 WIM]
[Ruud - 2022/23 RG]
Sadri - 1979 AO*
Schüttler - 2003 AO
Soderling - 2009/10 RG
[Tsitsipas - 2023 AO]
Verkerk - 2002 RG
Warwick - 1980 AO*
Washington - 1996 WIM
Total - 38
**Roche's '66 RG was an amateur Slam title.
So Zed's choking is actually to be expected of RUs. In fact, of the 35 finalists who won at least a set Zverev joins only Coria, Martin, AMed, Okker, Tanner and Tsits in having pushed their opponents to five! Oh and other than Tom, Roscoe and maybe Todd every one of 'em has been accused of choking away their almost certain W one way or another. Now I dunno about you but something tells moi these guys have been perhaps unduly demonized for the unforgivable crime of being younger aka being fresher in our minds!
Like I said Zed's pathetic Slam record vs. the top 10 is a bigger strike against his resume. One crap outing in a major F, however excruciating it was, isn't enough to demote him to 2nd-tier status when he's got 5 extra Slam SFs, 2 YECs and an Olympic gold medal to boot.
If you insist on being anal and exclude Roscoe (and Vitas):
Achievements - Okker followed by Mecir and then by Leconte and Tsonga (tie), with honorable mentions to Curren and Philippoussis
Potential - Leconte, then Philippoussis
Okker's additional RU appearance at the '73 YEC (a de facto major then) and more extensive trophy collection give him the edge over Mecir who underperformed in both of his Fs. Y'all should be more familiar with the rest.
Zed doesn't make the cut when he's got all of 1 major F unlike those guys (sans Henri and Jo - yup both Frenchmen), won a pitiful 2 Slam matches against the top 10 and yet to reverse his history of choking. 2 YECs don't make up for those glaring holes cuz the event no longer carries half the same weight it used to.
That said:
This actually isn't the strongest case against Alex cuz the majority of Slam RUs flop in their 1-3 F appearances. Here are all the OE RUs who managed to steal at least one set in their respective F, including the winners of early-OE majors that may not be worth full or even partial Slam status (all such editions are asterisked):
Baghdatis - 2006 AO
Berasategui - 1994 RG
Berrettini - 2021 WIM
Coria - 2004 RG
Corretja - 2001 RG
Curren - 1983 AO*, 1985 WIM
P. Dent - 1974 AO*
Denton - 1981 AO*
Enqvist - 1999 AO
Kodeš - 1971/73 USO
Kyrgios - 2022 WIM
C. Lewis - 1983 WIM
J. Lloyd - 1977 AO (2)*
J. Marks - 1978 AO*
Martin - 1999 USO
A. Medvedev - 1999 RG
Norman - 2000 RG
Okker - 1968 USO
Parun - 1973 AO*
Pecci - 1979 RG
Philippoussis - 1998 USO
Pilić - 1973 RG*
Proisy - 1972 RG*
Puerta - 2005 RG
Roche** - 1969/70 USO
Ruud - 2022 USO
Rusedski - 1997 USO
H. Solomon - 1976 RG*
Tanner - 1979 WIM
Tsitsipas - 2021 RG
Tsonga - 2008 AO
A. Zverev - 2020 USO
Total appearances - 35
And the rest who couldn't/didn't (above multi-finalists who also meet this dubious criterion are included in brackets):
K. Anderson - 2017 USO, 2018 WIM
M. Anderson - 1972 AO*
Berdych - 2010 WIM
Clément - 2001 AO
[Corretja - 1998 RG]
Crealy - 1970 AO*
[Denton - 1982 AO*]
Ferrer - 2013 RG
Franulović - 1970 RG*
Gerulaitis - 1979 USO, 1980 RG
González - 2007 AO
Gottfried - 1977 RG*
Leconte - 1988 RG
[Martin - 1994 AO]
Mečíř - 1986 USO, 1989 AO*
Metreveli - 1973 WIM*
Nalbandian - 2002 WIM
Nishikori - 2014 USO
Pernfors - 1986 RG
[Philippoussis - 2003 WIM]
Pioline - 1993 USO, 1997 WIM
Raonic - 2016 WIM
Rios - 1998 AO
[Roche** - 1968 WIM]
[Ruud - 2022/23 RG]
Sadri - 1979 AO*
Schüttler - 2003 AO
Soderling - 2009/10 RG
[Tsitsipas - 2023 AO]
Verkerk - 2002 RG
Warwick - 1980 AO*
Washington - 1996 WIM
Total - 38
**Roche's '66 RG was an amateur Slam title.
So Zed's choking is actually to be expected of RUs. In fact, of the 35 finalists who won at least a set Zverev joins only Coria, Martin, AMed, Okker, Tanner and Tsits in having pushed their opponents to five! Oh and other than Tom, Roscoe and maybe Todd every one of 'em has been accused of choking away their almost certain W one way or another. Now I dunno about you but something tells moi these guys have been perhaps unduly demonized for the unforgivable crime of being younger aka being fresher in our minds!
Like I said Zed's pathetic Slam record vs. the top 10 is a bigger strike against his resume. One crap outing in a major F, however excruciating it was, isn't enough to demote him to 2nd-tier status when he's got 5 extra Slam SFs, 2 YECs and an Olympic gold medal to boot.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
It’s a nice one to pick though because it’s very representative of Zverev’s other Slam losses… which range from the halfway decent (US Open 2021) to the absolutely embarrassing. Looks good for a little bit but then the choking sets in and it lasts even longer than his stretch of good play.
His loss to Djokovic at AO 2021 was an arguably worse choke (and it really was one of the worst I’ve seen at that stage of a Slam) but US Open 2020 is nice just because of how very symbolic it is of Zverev as a player. It’s even complete with the random five-setters on the way to the final.
abmk
Bionic Poster
The choking of Zverev vs Djoko in AO 2021 is indeed less talked about and was a significant choke, but the one on USO 2020 final was definitely worse. Up 2 sets and a break. and then the final set, uhh...
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