Isner Serve exceeds 7 feet (2.16 m) height at baseline in Paris

[TimeSpiral]

John Isner continues to baffle his opponents with first serves that bounce over 2.16 meters--or 7.09 feet in the US--at the baseline.

PARIS, 2013, During their match--in progress at the time this post is being written, John Isner bombed a first serve into the ad court that baffled Djokovic, the commentators, and the spectators alike. Rob Koenig, a professional tennis commentator, could be heard saying something like (paraphrasing), when Isner hits his kick serve that ball can bounce well over two meters in the air. The technicians running HawkEye, an electronic ball tracking system, must have taken his cue and decided to answer the question about this particular first serve, which Djokovic had to lunge for.

Here is the image they produce revealing a stunning number:

2.16 meters = roughly 7.09 feet

Lucky enough to be at a charity event in Florida, I was able to participate in a "chance to return Isner's serve," fund raising program. Afterwards, rather excited, I shared the story here about how the big man's serve feels from the receiving end. I was stunned by how high the ball bounced off the club's green clay. I was literally swinging at a ball that was over my head. I estimated that the ball was well over 6 feet (1.89 m) in the air (I'm about 6 feet tall) and a couple members pushed back on me saying that type of height "was not possible."

I could not get a hold of the footage of me attempting to return the serve (of which all three attempts were failures) but was delighted to see the boys running HawkEye in Paris answer the question for me: 2.16 meters, out wide, in the ad court, on a hard court, on a first serve! That is mind boggling. Imagine when he really gets that kicker going on a clay court?

Incredible, Isner. Well played.

 

[President]

The scary thing is that I think it was still rising as Djokovic hit it (he was basically inside the baseline when he made contact). He should hit those more often and follow it to the net, opponents really don't have an answer to that serve IMO.

 

[TimeSpiral]

The scary thing is that I think it was still rising as Djokovic hit it (he was basically inside the baseline when he made contact). He should hit those more often and follow it to the net, opponents really don't have an answer to that serve IMO.

Remember to avoid spoilers in this forum.

You're right, the ball was still on the rise and Djoker made contact about one foot inside the baseline. There is no legitimate answer to his serve if he's hitting his spots. The best answer is to hope he's not playing well, which unfortunately, happens more often that I'd like to see.

 

[spinovic]

Its not so much that he doesn't play well. It is his inability to break serve that means one off service game by him often costs him a set. He could serve dominant for most of a match and easily lose 6-3, 7-6.

As for his serve, if anyone has watched him much surely they have seen opponents reaching up by or over their head to get a return back.

I haven't seen today, but in the past Djokovic has really been frustrated by Isner's serve. John upset him in Cincy and Djokovic was having all kinds of trouble with the big serve and particularly the high bounce. I was fortunate enough to actually be there to see that match.

 

[rufus_smith]

Definitely a cool op and photo.

 

[TimeSpiral]

Its not so much that he doesn't play well. It is his inability to break serve that means one off service game by him often costs him a set. He could serve dominant for most of a match and easily lose 6-3, 7-6.

As for his serve, if anyone has watched him much surely they have seen opponents reaching up by or over their head to get a return back.

I haven't seen today, but in the past Djokovic has really been frustrated by Isner's serve. John upset him in Cincy and Djokovic was having all kinds of trouble with the big serve and particularly the high bounce. I was fortunate enough to actually be there to see that match.

Wow! That would have been an amazing match to see in person. That upset in Cincy may well have been the best tennis Isner has ever played. He served extremely well in that match, but I'm sure you remember, the difference in that match was that he was able to beat Djokovic off the ground in the big points!

Beating Djoker off the ground is a tall order (pun intended).

That's essentially what I meant when I said, "when he is playing well." I believe Isner is a top 10 player trapped inside the player of someone who just can't consistently play at his optimal level. His serves, forehand, movement, and net game are all world class. His return of serve and his forehand are far and away his biggest liability. He raises those two things a notch or two, and he'd be virtually unstoppable when serving well.

Definitely a cool op and photo.

Thanks!

 

[Mr.Lob]

I predicted Isner crashing a slam semifinal this coming season. His naysayers say he is nothing but a serve-bot. But he has a lethal forehand and a good volley. Saw him beat Delpo in Cincy, Nadal didn't have break point against Isner in finals. Nadal won both tiebreaker s, which was unusual as Isners overall tiebreak record is really good.

 

[Andres]

For those wondering, 2.16 m is exactly 7'1''

 

[sureshs]

I would just hit an overhead smash to return the serve

 

[spinovic]

Wow! That would have been an amazing match to see in person. That upset in Cincy may well have been the best tennis Isner has ever played. He served extremely well in that match, but I'm sure you remember, the difference in that match was that he was able to beat Djokovic off the ground in the big points!

Beating Djoker off the ground is a tall order (pun intended).

That's essentially what I meant when I said, "when he is playing well." I believe Isner is a top 10 player trapped inside the player of someone who just can't consistently play at his optimal level. His serves, forehand, movement, and net game are all world class. His return of serve and his forehand are far and away his biggest liability. He raises those two things a notch or two, and he'd be virtually unstoppable when serving well.



Thanks!

I agree. Cincinnati was the best I have ever seen Isner play. Not only was he playing well on the baseline but his net game was sick that week. Novak also made some uncharacteristic misses late in that match.

I think Isner should play more aggressively when he is returning. Go for it. That would put more pressure on opponents, IMO, knowing a couple of big rips by Isner could put them on the brink of losing a set. As it is, I think they are frequently comfortable...they can be somewhat safe with the first serve knowing John is going to lay back and grind on the baseline.

 

[Andres]

I would just hit an overhead smash to return the serve

That would help only if you're 4'7'' tall.

 

[LeeD]

7' at the baseline is well within reason, especially for someone's who's contact point is well over 10'6".
I played a 4.5 who could spin serve his hard safe serves about 6'6" high at the baseline. Also, a 5'11" 5.0 who could do the same.
But none, even Isner's, lands 7' high at the backwall.

 

[sureshs]

^^^ I thought your serve does?

 

[sureshs]

That would help only if you're 4'7'' tall.

I can always crouch

 

[PSNELKE]

I would just hit an overhead smash to return the serve

Yeah right, I bet Djokovic would love to take your advice and show some more OH Smash mastery.

 

[mikeler]

7' at the baseline is well within reason, especially for someone's who's contact point is well over 10'6".
I played a 4.5 who could spin serve his hard safe serves about 6'6" high at the baseline. Also, a 5'11" 5.0 who could do the same.
But none, even Isner's, lands 7' high at the backwall.

I've seen Isner serve the ball over the back fence before.

 

[sureshs]

I've seen Isner serve the ball over the back fence before.

We have never been able to find this. The standard pro fence is 21 feet from the baseline. We have seen evidence of the Isner ball hitting 6 feet up on the pro fence, but not 7 feet.

 

[LeeD]

I USED to be able to bounce a flat first serve over GoldenGatePark's court 1-4 railing, which was exactly 5' off the court, 21' behind the baseline. Maybe once in 10 tries, probably once in 20, with one hitting the railing.
Now, I'm lucky to bounce an IN serve higher than belt buckle heights, maybe 42".
Yesterday was serving my best in months, and sadly, maybe 40" high on IN first serve aces.
And yes, I was playing singles against a little 13 year old GIRL.. NEEDING that first serve.

 

[TimeSpiral]

7' at the baseline is well within reason, especially for someone's who's contact point is well over 10'6".
I played a 4.5 who could spin serve his hard safe serves about 6'6" high at the baseline. Also, a 5'11" 5.0 who could do the same.
But none, even Isner's, lands 7' high at the backwall.

Well within who's reason? :twisted: And for the record, Isner's contact point is over 11" feet in the air (can't find the darn article, sigh)! Complete craziness.

Maybe you remember, but you specifically challenged my claim about Isner's serve height at the baseline. I pushed back, and you insisted on your 6' 6" claim.

You said (emphasis added):

While TBall is at the 5-5.5 level, and he can hit first flat serves 120, his kick serves cannot bounce 8' high ever, unless it hit a rock or crack on the court.
Highest bounces are right at 6'6" high at the baseline, no higher, from any server including Milos, Groth, Isner, or Dr.Ivo...who doesn't seem to twist often.

To your credit, you did suggest that the ball could reach 7' in the air well behind the baseline, as evident by this post:

TimeS, how high do you think Isner's serves were bouncing, back where you were standing? I'd say they might be 7' high, and since you needed to reach high, but mostly WIDE, to get near the ball, the serve wasn't over the reach of your racket, which is easily 9'6" high over your head.
A long thread about how high a serve can bounce at the backboard, 21' behind the baseline. NLBewell, a sub 6'er, claims "7'", but nobody believes it.
Watching Isner play on TV, the height is around 5-6' at the backwall next to a ballperson or linesman.

 

[TimeSpiral]

Disclaimer: It was not easy finding specific posts from LeeD, who has tens of thousands of posts! Thanks, Google, and thanks LeeD for being so specific in your posts that it's highly memorable.

 

[LeeD]

OBVIOUSLY, that ONE serve Isner bounced 7' high at the baseline was an abbbberation, sometime done once in a match, not more often.
I still don't believe ANYONE can serve a first serve IN, and have it bounce 7' high at the backwall. I"m on the fence about a topspin first serve.
As for the 6'6" heights at the baseline, I know Zack on BerkeleyTennisClub's 4.5 league team has done it lots, but he's very close to 6'6" tall, and strongly built around 225 lbs. NOT a skinny beanpole like other 6'5" guys on that team.
For you guys living around SanFrancisco, also Sakai, at 6' tall, can hit a second serve around 6'3" high at the baseline pretty regularly.

 

[TimeSpiral]

OBVIOUSLY, that ONE serve Isner bounced 7' high at the baseline was an abbbberation, sometime done once in a match, not more often.
I still don't believe ANYONE can serve a first serve IN, and have it bounce 7' high at the backwall. I"m on the fence about a topspin first serve.
As for the 6'6" heights at the baseline, I know Zack on BerkeleyTennisClub's 4.5 league team has done it lots, but he's very close to 6'6" tall, and strongly built around 225 lbs. NOT a skinny beanpole like other 6'5" guys on that team.
For you guys living around SanFrancisco, also Sakai, at 6' tall, can hit a second serve around 6'3" high at the baseline pretty regularly.

Just say the words, "You win, TS. You win ..." :twisted:

I would argue that the biggest and tallest servers are routinely hitting 1st and 2nd serves that exceed seven feet at the baseline.

 

[LeeD]

YOU WIN, TS, YOU WIN...
I'm adamant about the 7' high at the backwall though. I don't think that is possible.
Since a couple of my buds can serve close to 6'6" at the baseline, it stands to reason that any tall ATP pro can serve higher, if they use a real topspin or twist serve.
I guess Dr.Ivo doesn't hit true twists, or pure high bouncing kickers.

 

[TimeSpiral]

YOU WIN, TS, YOU WIN...
I'm adamant about the 7' high at the backwall though. I don't think that is possible.
Since a couple of my buds can serve close to 6'6" at the baseline, it stands to reason that any tall ATP pro can serve higher, if they use a real topspin or twist serve.
I guess Dr.Ivo doesn't hit true twists, or pure high bouncing kickers.

The crazy thing is, when you look at the trajectory in the OP, it doesn't appear like Isner is playing a kicker here. Isner has a wicked kicker, but he's so ***** gigantic that he doesn't even need it for the second serve. He can just blast those too.

As far as the 7' claim on a pro fence ... I don't know. Seems unlikely.

Here is a recreation of Isner's serve from the OP in a profile view:

I tried my best to use the HawkEye footage to help create the side view bezier curves, but this is still something of a guess (but I doubt it's super wrong).

 

[President]

YOU WIN, TS, YOU WIN...
I'm adamant about the 7' high at the backwall though. I don't think that is possible.
Since a couple of my buds can serve close to 6'6" at the baseline, it stands to reason that any tall ATP pro can serve higher, if they use a real topspin or twist serve.
I guess Dr.Ivo doesn't hit true twists, or pure high bouncing kickers.

Isner's serve was still RISING at the baseline, its apex height probably would have been something crazy like 8 feet+. I think if Isner really went for it he could easily hit a kicker/topspin serve that bounced very high up the back fence, I don't see 7 feet as an imposibility. You have to see this guy serve is person, its nuts. It's because he puts a lot of spin on even his "flat" first serves, they kick up like a mule. He served this one at a very sharp angle out wide and it was still a first serve yet was STILL so high, if Isner went pure spin I think he could make it.

 

[LeeD]

Well, we know Dr.Ivo can't.
I hit a bit with VictorAmaya back in the late '70's, and he couldn't.
Querry has no where near the serve of Isner.
Janovich doesn't seem to have a really high kicker.
Anderson uses more top/slice than pure kickers.
DelPo/Soderling/Berkych/Haas/Groth do hit second serves around 6'6" high at the baseline.

 

[TimeSpiral]

Isner's serve was still RISING at the baseline, its apex height probably would have been something crazy like 8 feet+. I think if Isner really went for it he could easily hit a kicker/topspin serve that bounced very high up the back fence, I don't see 7 feet as an imposibility. You have to see this guy serve is person, its nuts. It's because he puts a lot of spin on even his "flat" first serves, they kick up like a mule. He served this one at a very sharp angle out wide and it was still a first serve yet was STILL so high, if Isner went pure spin I think he could make it.

I project the apex to be at 99 inches (8.25 feet, or 2.51 meters) at approximately 80 inches behind the basline (6.66 feet, or 2.02 meters).

Had Isner hit that serve on the line, with similar characteristics, I would project the ball to hit a backstop that is 21' behind the baseline at 7.08 feet from the ground. It would hit a rec fence at about 7.5 feet. This is consistent with what I've seen when he was hitting serves on a rec court. He hits the fence well above the height of a normal man.

 

[mikeler]

I can't find a video but here is anecdotal stuff about Isner hitting it over an 8' fence.

http://www.essentialtennis.com/atpnews/misc-atpnews/houston-your-seeding-has-a-problem/3375/

 

[LeeD]

But like in AVERAGE first serve speed, can Isner bounce a serve that drops IN, and it bounces 7' high at the backwall?
I doubt he can get one in 10, 7' high, even for hit and giggles.
You guys are looking at his best highest bouncing ever recorded, which I can say he's done before, but not at a regular event.
Roddick can hit 154 mph, but he can't do it every tournament. We can give Roddick 145 only.

 

[sureshs]

Are UGA courts pro spec? Many courts are not 21 feet to the fence.

 

[LeeD]

Looks like a lot of pro tourneys, the 21' goes to the front of the linesman's feet, then add another 2'.

 

[LeeD]

Which is more than made up for the fact the court surface is more abrasive than what we play in, the balls are newer, the court temps +20-40 over where I play, it's a competitive enviorment, the stands have folkes watching, and the player's are pretty good.