ITF president says ban unlikely for Serena; Agassi comments

THUNDERVOLLEY said:
BS. No crime was commited, no legal action taken or suggested by any legal body in the state on behalf of the so-called "victim." There was no "assault," no matter how anyone wants to rewrite the books just to target Serena Williams.
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With all due respect ....
You are mistaken.
Serena is guilty of an assault with a deadly weapon and there were 100 million witnesses.
That is not BS, just a fact.
She committed a crime which is a jailable offense.

Don't take my word for it.
Check it out for yourself with any lawyer.
You do not have to touch someone for an assault, only make a threatening move toward them.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
BS. No crime was commited, no legal action taken or suggested by any legal body in the state on behalf of the so-called "victim." There was no "assault," no matter how anyone wants to rewrite the books just to target Serena Williams.
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Yes and no. There was no crime committed that has been prosecuted, but there was an assault (in legal terms).
 
If ITF doesn't penalize Serena Williams, the next thing we shall witness will be a beat-up. Players are getting more and more crazy. Obscenities on court are considered to be normal behavior. You can't bring your kids to a stadium because very few sportsmen have a level above the common punks. And now we are having the threat of physical abuse. Generally it's a criminal offence. No action will mean "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than the other".
 
Gen said:
If ITF doesn't penalize Serena Williams, the next thing we shall witness will be a beat-up. Players are getting more and more crazy. Obscenities on court are considered to be normal behavior. You can't bring your kids to a stadium because very few sportsmen have a level above the common punks. And now we are having the threat of physical abuse. Generally it's a criminal offence. No action will mean "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than the other".
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Really? Just remind me how many decades tennis had to endure JMac? Why all the rage against Serena? (Reason is obvious, from your use of "animals")
 
Serena should have taken her racquet and caved in the head of that lying, paid off piece of crap lineswoman......that's just my opinion.....I could be wrong.
 
paulfreda said:
With all due respect ....
You are mistaken.
Serena is guilty of an assault with a deadly weapon and there were 100 million witnesses.
That is not BS, just a fact.
She committed a crime which is a jailable offense.

Don't take my word for it.
Check it out for yourself with any lawyer.
You do not have to touch someone for an assault, only make a threatening move toward them.
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I agree with you on that. When the incident was reported, I had posted that the lineswoman's lawyers would already be in contact with Serena's camp. She would have paid her off already, along with a gag settlement.
 
sureshs said:
I agree with you on that. When the incident was reported, I had posted that the lineswoman's lawyers would already be in contact with Serena's camp. She would have paid her off already, along with a gag settlement.
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The ball going in her throat WAS the gag settlement.
 
sureshs said:
I agree - the assault and threat were imagined. The lineswoman who made the (incorrect) call tried to play the victim by claiming to the umpire that Serena threatened to kill her. That is why I have always said that there was something shady about her. She seemed to have been waiting for the right opportunity to bait Serena with an incorrect call and then play victim. I would not be surprised if it was motivated by something else, which is also speculated in the latest issue of Inside Tennis.
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What a fanboy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO_jlXjgxN8
 
I like Serena, but my advice is be honest with yourself, you are like Connors and McEnroe, don't pretend to be this gentle innocent person, because we've seen what you are really like!
 
sureshs said:
Really? Just remind me how many decades tennis had to endure JMac? Why all the rage against Serena? (Reason is obvious, from your use of "animals")
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Exactly. Odd how after the antics of other players, so-called "obscenities" tossed about with frequency, and of course the unforgivable Hewitt incident all go without much controversy when the acts--particularly Hewitt's--should have led to his dwarf ass suspended and fined, but what did the now-"outraged" fans say? Nothing.
 
sureshs said:
Really? Just remind me how many decades tennis had to endure JMac? Why all the rage against Serena? (Reason is obvious, from your use of "animals")
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The media and the internet were non existant when connors and mac were doing their thing.

Also, neither player physically threatened anyone. There is a line and serena crossed it. Silly comparison.
 
Chadwixx said:
The media and the internet were non existant when connors and mac were doing their thing.

Also, neither player physically threatened anyone. There is a line and serena crossed it. Silly comparison.
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No laws broken. No line crossed. Time to grow up and leave Seasame Street world views behind.
 
Chadwixx said:
The media and the internet were non existant when connors and mac were doing their thing.
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Get your history straight. The media existed long before any of the named players were born, and during their time, the world--via TV, radio and print knew all about McEnroe, Nastase, Connors and others' behavior--so much so that it moved beyond the walls of tennis to become part of the popular culture in general references, satire, etc.
 
Serena is getting away with it because she is a very powerful person, which is completely understandable!

I don't mind her going off on one shouting etc, but she did pretend afterwards that it didn't happen. I'd prefer her to stand up for her real actual opinion of that linesperson, like Connors or McEnroe would have done. I like Serena, but she is a hypocrite regarding this matter, which I don't like I must admit:(
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
No laws broken. No line crossed. Time to grow up and leave Seasame Street world views behind.
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lets get the facts straight here.

1.) the call is NOT the topic here. Regardless of it being right, wrong, doesn't matter. It's Serena's reaction that is being debated.

2.) what she did is considered an assault with a deadly weapon. It is written clearly that if someone approaches you in a threaten manner (like screaming, threatening to hurt you) carrying a weapon and waving it towards you = it is considered assault with a deadly weapon.

http://www.bruzzolaw.com/criminal-charges/assault-battery.html
http://chestofbooks.com/society/law/Popular-Law-10/Section-25-Assault-With-Deadly-Weapon.html

some may argue that tennis racket is not a weapon (or deadly weapon), but if you get hit in the head with the frame hard enough, you can die.
 
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THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Get your history straight. The media existed long before any of the named players were born, and during their time, the world--via TV, radio and print knew all about McEnroe, Nastase, Connors and others' behavior--so much so that it moved beyond the walls of tennis to become part of the popular culture in general references, satire, etc.
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Are you honestly comparing the media of the early 80's to the media of 2009?
 
HellBunni said:
lets get the facts straight here.

1.) the call is NOT the topic here. Regardless of it being right, wrong, doesn't matter. It's Serena's reaction that is being debated.

2.) what she did is considered an assault with a deadly weapon. It is written clearly that if someone approaches you in a threaten manner (like screaming, threatening to hurt you) carrying a weapon and waving it towards you = it is considered assault with a deadly weapon.

http://www.bruzzolaw.com/criminal-charges/assault-battery.html
http://chestofbooks.com/society/law/Popular-Law-10/Section-25-Assault-With-Deadly-Weapon.html

some may argue that tennis racket is not a weapon (or deadly weapon), but if you get hit in the head with the frame hard enough, you can die.
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Better be careful waving your pen in the air when having an argument with somebody, because if it is jabbed hard enough in the throat, it can kill.
 
sureshs said:
Better be careful waving your pen in the air when having an argument with somebody, because if it is jabbed hard enough in the throat, it can kill.
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it's not arguing, it's the threat of immediate physical harm.

there is a huge difference.

berating and screaming at someone vs threat of immediate physical harm are different things.

and actually it's easier if you just stab the other person in the eye socket with the pen. And i'm sure you can and will be charged if you attempted to do such a thing to someone.

also are you saying if someone twice your size, is coming at you with a tennis racket threatening you, you would be okay since the racket isn't a "deadly weapon"?
 
HellBunni said:
it's not arguing, it's the threat of immediate physical harm.

there is a huge difference.

berating and screaming at someone vs threat of immediate physical harm are different things.

and actually it's easier if you just stab the other person in the eye socket with the pen. And i'm sure you can and will be charged if you attempted to do such a thing to someone.

also are you saying if someone twice your size, is coming at you with a tennis racket threatening you, you would be okay since the racket isn't a "deadly weapon"?
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She wasn't using the racquet to threaten, she was pointing at her with the racquet, which every tennis player does by instinct.
 
Look,

We all know she was out or order!

We all know she should get banned, but won't because it's not in anyones interests (Hers or WTA)!

And we all now know Serena has a nasty side to her!

I think that's really the end of the matter for me.
 
Chadwixx said:
Are you honestly comparing the media of the early 80's to the media of 2009?
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You said the media was "non existant" at the time in question. You were and are wrong. Not only did you have a major media in place (including cable TV), but the players' antics became known and parodied because of its well-known place in pop culture. This is historical fact, not the fantasy which seeks to make SW's non-incident some unique case.
 
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HellBunni said:
it's not arguing, it's the threat of immediate physical harm.
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According to...?

No official has ever stated this was the case, so all we are left with are the desires to damn SW based on reasons other than the yawn-inducing non-incident.


also are you saying if someone twice your size, is coming at you with a tennis racket threatening you, you would be okay since the racket isn't a "deadly weapon"?
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Size is meaningless. A 5'1" person with a knife can stab you in a vital organ just as effectively as one who is bigger. Use, intent and accuracy are the factors which matter in any sort of attack, not size....but that is inapplicable to SW, because she was never accused of "threatening" the would-be victim with any recognized weapon, no matter how much others want that to be the case.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
According to...?

No official has ever stated this was the case, so all we are left with are the desires to damn SW based on reasons other than the yawn-inducing non-incident.




Size is meaningless. A 5'1" person with a knife can stab you in a vital organ just as effectively as one who is bigger. Use, intent and accuracy are the factors which matter in any sort of attack, not size....but that is inapplicable to SW, because she was never accused of "threatening" the would-be victim with any recognized weapon, no matter how much others want that to be the case.
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I'll break it down for you. I can't remember the exact quote but what we all agree to at the very least is that she said something along the following.

"I will take this ball and shove it down your throat"

that is a threat,
"I will take this ball and shove" => threat
"ball down throat" => immediate physical harm

she didn't get charged, that's about it.
what she did was a threat.

if we take the racket out of the equation all together,
it is still classified as an assault, look it up. Threatening someone and moving towards them in a threatening manner => assault.
 
sureshs said:
She wasn't using the racquet to threaten, she was pointing at her with the racquet, which every tennis player does by instinct.
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she was waving it towards the lineswoman, in normal cases that wouldn't be much. But coupled with her verbal threat, the intent on the racket is a weapon (or can be seen as such)
 
HellBunni said:
she was waving it towards the lineswoman, in normal cases that wouldn't be much. But coupled with her verbal threat, the intent on the racket is a weapon (or can be seen as such)
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Yes it is, and it has probably been settled with some money.
 
HellBunni said:
probably, it's another case of the rich and famous having it their way.
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That is because there were lots of people to witness it, which happens to the rich and famous. A lot of poor guys and nobodies get into shouting matches and such in the parking lot, but also never get prosecuted, let alone fined. So it is not a fair comparison here. Serena was in that situation because she was rich and famous.

If you want a good example, it would be Michael Jackson paying off kid's parents.
 
HellBunni said:
she was waving it towards the lineswoman, in normal cases that wouldn't be much. But coupled with her verbal threat, the intent on the racket is a weapon (or can be seen as such)
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Unless she raised the racquet in what is universally determined to be an offensive posture/striking posture (implying threat or intent), she committed no offense...which was the case, because waving a racquet is not an offensive/striking posture to any degree.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Unless she raised the racquet in what is universally determined to be an offensive posture/striking posture (implying threat or intent), she committed no offense...which was the case, because waving a racquet is not an offensive/striking posture to any degree.
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You apparently did not see the match or any of the video replays.

She did raise her racquet up and shook it in a hostile manner toward the lady with it being only a few feet from her head.
She did this while committing the crime of assault, and issuing a death threat.

What more do you need ??

You must be either her PR man or her agent.
 
paulfreda said:
You apparently did not see the match or any of the video replays.
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Absurd. I observed the non-incident as it happened, so it prevents lies based on a desire to claim she committed some offense.

She did raise her racquet up and shook it in a hostile manner toward the lady with it being only a few feet from her head.
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In no way was that the dreamers' offensive/striking posture; waving a racquet to punctuate speech is another matter. I deal in specifics, not fantasy designed to pin a cooked-up "crime" on a person.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Unless she raised the racquet in what is universally determined to be an offensive posture/striking posture (implying threat or intent), she committed no offense...which was the case, because waving a racquet is not an offensive/striking posture to any degree.
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She raised her racquet and explicitly point out that she will do bodily harm (tantamount to threat of death, even).

Waving a racquet is not an offense, sure. Unless, however, it can be proven that there was a malicious will and intent to threaten and whether or not there was a perception of threat by the victim. The tone of Serena's voice, her demeanor, the fact that she actually presented the weapon of choice (tennis ball + racquet) and gestured said weapons towards the victim. And not only did she do this once, but she turned around and did it again.

One doesn't have to dig too deep underneath the cover of the whole thing to see that there would be a solid criminal case against Serena and a fool-proof Civil case against her.

It's almost a certainty that she would deserve a suspension under ATF rules. However, these rules are more arbitrarily upheld than actually binding civic and criminal law, so...... she'll probably get away with everything (no one pressed charges and the linesperson nor the ATP filed a lawsuit. They only fined her..)
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Absurd. I observed the non-incident as it happened, so it prevents lies based on a desire to claim she committed some offense.



In no way was that the dreamers' offensive/striking posture; waving a racquet to punctuate speech is another matter. I deal in specifics, not fantasy designed to pin a cooked-up "crime" on a person.
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as I've said, even if you take the racket out of the equation.

by making a verbal threat of immediate physical harm (ball down throat), and approaching the lineswoman (walking towards). => assault

+ racket = assault with deadly weapon

so lets recap, no weapon = assault => still an offense
with weapon => assault with deadly weapon => a worse offense.

so either way she clearly committed assault.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Absurd. I observed the non-incident as it happened, so it prevents lies based on a desire to claim she committed some offense.



In no way was that the dreamers' offensive/striking posture; waving a racquet to punctuate speech is another matter. I deal in specifics, not fantasy designed to pin a cooked-up "crime" on a person.
Click to expand...




Any half-way decent lawyer presented with Serena's situation would easily be able to get an Assault Charge.
 
sureshs said:
It is highly probable
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could be, but the line judge didn't taunt her. so her reaction and what really cost her the match (with point penalty) was her actions.

and as other has mentioned, she's been called on foot fault in the tournament by other line judges.
 
HellBunni said:
could be, but the line judge didn't taunt her. so her reaction and what really cost her the match (with point penalty) was her actions.
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And her reactions were such because she knew she was going to lose in any case.

She was angry with Clijsters and angry with herself. The anger with Clijsters was not because she was losing, but because she was losing to someone who had a kid and came back from retirement. It called into question whatever Serena had achieved since Clijsters retired. That was what was really bugging her, not just losing the match. It will be the same issue when Federer will be on the verge of losing to Nadal in the Paris indoors this week. 2 Slams, career slam, and GOAT title will be up for grabs.

The call just tipped her over the edge. She could do nothing about Clijsters, so she took it out on the lineswoman. Then she realized what she had done, and tried to be extra nice to Clijsters to make up for it. After that, she extended half-baked apologies fine-tuned by her lawyers, without really admitting anything, and then the lawyers must have arranged for a quiet payoff, probably in the 50K range. It is quite obvious - no expert psychology needed here.

What is more interesting is the behavior of the lineswoman.
 
sureshs said:
I think anyone with common sense can understand what happened - a bad line call, probably deliberate, a lying and baiting lineswoman, and words spoken in the heat of the moment.
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Yeah, sure....like the lineswoman was very intimidating...whatever.
 
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sureshs said:
I agree - the assault and threat were imagined. The lineswoman who made the (incorrect) call tried to play the victim by claiming to the umpire that Serena threatened to kill her. That is why I have always said that there was something shady about her. She seemed to have been waiting for the right opportunity to bait Serena with an incorrect call and then play victim. I would not be surprised if it was motivated by something else, which is also speculated in the latest issue of Inside Tennis.
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how do you know she made the incorrect call?
 
sureshs said:
And her reactions were such because she knew she was going to lose in any case.

She was angry with Clijsters and angry with herself. The anger with Clijsters was not because she was losing, but because she was losing to someone who had a kid and came back from retirement. It called into question whatever Serena had achieved since Clijsters retired. That was what was really bugging her, not just losing the match. It will be the same issue when Federer will be on the verge of losing to Nadal in the Paris indoors this week. 2 Slams, career slam, and GOAT title will be up for grabs.

The call just tipped her over the edge. She could do nothing about Clijsters, so she took it out on the lineswoman. Then she realized what she had done, and tried to be extra nice to Clijsters to make up for it. After that, she extended half-baked apologies fine-tuned by her lawyers, without really admitting anything, and then the lawyers must have arranged for a quiet payoff, probably in the 50K range. It is quite obvious - no expert psychology needed here.

What is more interesting is the behavior of the lineswoman.
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how do you know that is what was bugging serena? did she tell you herself?
 
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