It's a sad, sad day at my house...

McLovin

Legend
Using my last pack of 'non-BT7' Wilson 17g Natural Gut:



I hated to do it, but at the same time, what's the use of owning a Porsche if you're not going to drive it?

I realize there was discussion here a while back that some of the Wilson was still non-BT7, but I'm not willing to drop $45 to find out that's not the case. Time to move on...but not before I enjoy one final string job. Well, actually 'two' final string jobs as I hybrid it w/ poly.
 

Muppet

Legend
Better to have loved and lost . . ., yada, yada, yada.

I've never experienced pre-BT7. Cherish the memories.
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
What is BT7?
BT7 is the new method Babolat uses to construct their natural gut. It uses fewer strands and is supposed to last longer. Most people who use Babolat gut on a regular basis do not like the difference in feel with the new "improved" result. Their original method used 14 strands of intestinal fiber, the new method uses 7 thicker strands. Here is an article detailing the changes in Babolat's gut over the years:

http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Tennis-Now-Gear-Review--Babolat-VS-Touch-BT7.aspx

McLovin said:
It's a sad day at my house....
My condolences.... :(

But have faith, you'll find a new cordage.
 
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Booger

Hall of Fame
What is BT7?
A coating that babolat uses on their natural gut strings. They manufacture the strings with less strands and slather it in BT7 so it will still hold together. The strings play noticeably worse, but babolat makes a lot more $$$$.
 

scotus

G.O.A.T.
A sad, sad year at my house ...

I have lots of pre-BT7 VS gut in my closet, but I have gone full poly at low tension.
 

SleepyCoffee

New User
Mclovin - any idea what you're going to use next? I remember reading your gut review thread and did you say you liked pacific classic? I'm in the same boat as you needing to find a new string set up. For giggles, I went to the other spectrum and tried a full bed of msv cofocus hex at 50/48 and it was surprisingly not too bad. I just really missed the power of gut.

Scotus - why the switch to full poly and what string and tension are you using?
 

JT_2eighty

Hall of Fame
A coating that babolat uses on their natural gut strings. They manufacture the strings with less strands and slather it in BT7 so it will still hold together. The strings play noticeably worse, but babolat makes a lot more $$$$.
Not exactly, but not sure if you were making a joke, heh.

BT7 just means 7-strands of gut, it's not the 'name' of the coating, but the name of 'method' used to make the gut. I don't think the coating ever changed, as I have used both guts as well as Wilson gut. Just the mere fact that they went from 14 smaller strands to 7 thicker strands was enough to completely change the feel and increase durability. Just take a look at multifilaments (lots of tiny strands) versus a multi-core syn gut (less strands than a multi), which one feels better, is softer, and which one feels stiffer and is more durable?

See Rabbit's post for the details.
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
Not exactly, but not sure if you were making a joke, heh.

BT7 just means 7-strands of gut, it's not the 'name' of the coating, but the name of 'method' used to make the gut. I don't think the coating ever changed, as I have used both guts as well as Wilson gut. Just the mere fact that they went from 14 smaller strands to 7 thicker strands was enough to completely change the feel and increase durability. Just take a look at multifilaments (lots of tiny strands) versus a multi-core syn gut (less strands than a multi), which one feels better, is softer, and which one feels stiffer and is more durable?

Huh, I assumed natural gut strands were all relatively similar in diameter and it was the coating that made it more durable.
 

000KFACTOR90000

Professional
BT7 is the new method Babolat uses to construct their natural gut. It uses fewer strands and is supposed to last longer. Most people who use Babolat gut on a regular basis do not like the difference in feel with the new "improved" result. Their original method used 14 strands of intestinal fiber, the new method uses 7 thicker strands. Here is an article detailing the changes in Babolat's gut over the years:

http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Tennis-Now-Gear-Review--Babolat-VS-Touch-BT7.aspx



My condolences.... :(

But have faith, you'll find a new cordage.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Wilson_Natural_Gut_16_String/descpageACWILSON-WNAT16.html

Deceptive cross section picture if that's the case, I still count 14.
 

McLovin

Legend
Mclovin - any idea what you're going to use next?
Been using Pacific Tough Gut for the past 8 months, and I really do like it. I actually have a few more sets of Tough Gut, but this last pack of Wilson has been sitting around for over a year, and it just seemed like the right time to use it.

Like scotus, I have started using full poly also, but only on clay (see the shaped/smooth poly thread going on here). Gut/poly is still my setup for indoors/hard courts.
 

maxpotapov

Hall of Fame
Your stringing machine shows nice workmanship, which Alpha model is this?
I think of buying one so I can always enjoy fresh poly/poly setups
 

Fintft

Legend
BT7 is not too bad; just pick the thinnest gauge (17), make sure that you pre-stretch manually and use mid tension, imho.
 

McLovin

Legend
Your stringing machine shows nice workmanship, which Alpha model is this?
I think of buying one so I can always enjoy fresh poly/poly setups
Its the Revo 4000 + Wise 2086. The Wise is probably the best investment I've made. 2 1/2 years later & I've been very, very happy w/ it.

The one thing I like is that if anything goes wrong (which it hasn't), I can slide the crank back on & still string racquets while the Wise is getting fixed.
 

maxpotapov

Hall of Fame
Is there a lock out mode or it's constant pull only?
I find CP machines creating stiffer stringbeds. Good for tension maintenance, I know, but kinda harsh to the touch.
 

McLovin

Legend
Is there a lock out mode or it's constant pull only?
I find CP machines creating stiffer stringbeds. Good for tension maintenance, I know, but kinda harsh to the touch.
Yes, and yes. Here's the control panel:



If you deselect the 'Constant Pull', it acts as a lockout. But, I agree about the stiffness of the constant pull, which is why I had to drop the tension. On my old drop-weight I was 58/56 for my gut/poly. Now I'm 54/52.
 

maxpotapov

Hall of Fame
I looked around... Probably the best deal in the budget electric machines. Like, premium quality at 1/2 the price which can be paid by 1/2 at a time
 

ShahofTennis

Professional
I'm just as sad to see it go as you are, but hey, you get to play with it. I play with gut/poly hybrids, but my gut is cheap, and generic from the auction site. Plays ok though. Enjoy your pre-BT7 gut.
 

ultradr

Legend
I hoarded all pre-BT7 VS, Tonic, Wilson still available on big bay about 2-3 years ago and I still have 10+ left. I'm egoistic and use them only for myself.

I would still use BT7 VS if it is around $30. Maximum I can pay is $35.
 
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McLovin

Legend
I hoarded all pre-BT7 VS, Tonic, Wilson still available on big bay about 2-3 years ago and I still have 10+ left. I'm egoistic and use them only for myself.

I would still use BT7 VS if it is around $30. Maximum I can pay is $35.
Yeah, I picked up ~ 10 packs from my "supplier" about 2 years ago and have been working through it slowly, using it only for myself. I believe I paid $35 / pack (he was looking to get rid of all his old stock).

At $39, Pacific Tough Gut isn't a bad replacement, and for $4 more, Pacific Prime is supposed to be real close (haven't tried it yet).

Honestly, I wish Bow Brand would start distributing in the US again. That was my favorite gut over the years.
 

McLovin

Legend
Still been ordering Wilson NG with no BT7 from TW. Didn't even know they were using it.
There have been many discussions on this, and I don't know if there has ever been a definitive answer as to whether Wilson NG has transitioned over 100% to BT7 or not.

Logic would dictate that, if Babolat is no longer producing non-BT7 for themselves, then they wouldn't continue for Wilson either. That would require them to keep two separate manufacturing processes going, which doesn't seem very cost-effective, especially when the margins on Natural Gut can't be that high.

Bottom line is, I've hit w/ the BT7 stuff and didn't like it at all. Not going to risk $43 on something I'm not sure about.
 
Maybe i am the only one who actually prefers the bt7 type of natural gut.
I suppose i would prefer the old vs if i were doing a full stringbed of gut.
With gut mains, to me, the new gut feels better, interacts better with a poly cross, and lasts longer. So i am a bt7 fan.

In 2011, i also kept one full set of the old vs. Used the first half and it felt good, then broke after just a week.

So...i have a half-set to sell you guys at full set pricing! hahah. Kidding. My wife will love it.
 

ultradr

Legend
Yeah, I picked up ~ 10 packs from my "supplier" about 2 years ago and have been working through it slowly, using it only for myself. I believe I paid $35 / pack (he was looking to get rid of all his old stock).

At $39, Pacific Tough Gut isn't a bad replacement, and for $4 more, Pacific Prime is supposed to be real close (haven't tried it yet).

Honestly, I wish Bow Brand would start distributing in the US again. That was my favorite gut over the years.

Unfortunately, I personally do not like Pacific gut's feel. It's soft and has great playability life but somehow feel tad synthetic to me.

I actually prefer Klip uncoated.

I'm ok with BT7 if I string it 5% lower than VS tension. But BT7 bottoms out rather quickly, IMO.
I have 18x20 and I often can tell value guts bottoms out before the pop.
IMHO, BT7 has similar playability life length as value gut Klip.
So I'm only willing to pay as much as Klip.
 
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parasailing

Hall of Fame
It is sad they no longer make the non BT7 stuff. This means we basically have to hunt for the old stuff on the great auction site. I would like to hoard more natural gut strings but given the cost, I just using up what I have remaining. At the rate I am going, I have probably a 3 year supply and then it's a sad sad sad day for me as well.
 

Rjtennis

Hall of Fame
There have been many discussions on this, and I don't know if there has ever been a definitive answer as to whether Wilson NG has transitioned over 100% to BT7 or not.

Logic would dictate that, if Babolat is no longer producing non-BT7 for themselves, then they wouldn't continue for Wilson either. That would require them to keep two separate manufacturing processes going, which doesn't seem very cost-effective, especially when the margins on Natural Gut can't be that high.

Bottom line is, I've hit w/ the BT7 stuff and didn't like it at all. Not going to risk $43 on something I'm not sure about.
Unless they have changed Wilson gut in the last year or so it is NOT BT7. The Wilson gut didn't change when the BT7 came out, I'm positive of that. I've played with a ton of it and none of it has been BT7.

I still have around 20 sets of the old VS so I'm good for a bit. Plus, I don't mind using BT7 when I'm playing outdoors because it's a bit more durable.
 
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ShahofTennis

Professional
Forgive me as I veer off into a tangent.
I really want to hear price figures on these 3 year supply, and 20-set collections of Natural Gut. How much did these jaw dropping amassment's of NG cost?
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
If Wilson has started using the BT7 junk, I haven't received any from TW as far as I can tell. It looks and plays the same as always, just like pre-BT7 VS gut.

It hurts me every time I add a pack of $47 string to my cart, but I figure it's only a matter of time before Wilson's contract with babolat expires and the good stuff disappears forever.
 

joetennisact

New User
I'm calling this whole thread a bunch of BT, I mean BS. I'm guessing OP assumed there was a difference between the prior blue packaging and the "new" white packaging with red letters in that the Blue did not have BT7 and the White was BT7. Let me assure you, that was not the case. I know the Wilson Natural Gut 16 I just bought last week in the White packaking was absolutely not BT7. In stead of passing on rumours or innuendo, I wish posters would just post first hand accounts on this particular issue!
 

000KFACTOR90000

Professional
I'm calling this whole thread a bunch of BT, I mean BS. I'm guessing OP assumed there was a difference between the prior blue packaging and the "new" white packaging with red letters in that the Blue did not have BT7 and the White was BT7. Let me assure you, that was not the case. I know the Wilson Natural Gut 16 I just bought last week in the White packaking was absolutely not BT7. In stead of passing on rumours or innuendo, I wish posters would just post first hand accounts on this particular issue!
Interesting post, I haven't encountered any wilson BT7 either. Easy to cut a cross section and put it under a microscope if people aren't sure.
 

joetennisact

New User
What's interesting is that I have done a search on "Wilson Natural Gut BT7" and tried to track down how this rumor even got started and the earliest I could find is McLoven himself, the OP on this thread. I could find no other posts before McLoven. McLoven's contention is that he got this information from other posters here on this forum, but i can't find any evidence of that.

I guess I'm opening myself for some hurt here being a newbie poster, calling out a 'Hall of Fame' poster but I think it's funny that a few of us here have been snookered into hoarding the Wilson NG old packaging based on some imaginative posting of a guy named Mcloven!

It does sound plausible, even likely that Babalot wouldn't continue two different manufacturing lines, but does anyone really know? Just wondering if someone suggested this here, repeated, and it's now been accepted as gospel? Are there any first hand accounts by respected members here who have opened up a Wilson NG package and discovered BT7?
 

joetennisact

New User
Man, I'm obsessing now, but I'm finding myself obsessed on the eptymology of how an internet rumor can get started. The first posts I can find on this subject are in Jan 2012 where posters were surmising how it was possible that Babalot will stop producing non BT7 (old VS) eventually and how that will be a sad day. Various speculative posts after that.

Then out of the blue, in Dec 2013, "Professional" poster Swan Song came up with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan Song View Post
"For the folks that are using the Wilson Natural Gut, I believe the newer batches have transitioned onto the BT7."

Unfortunately, that thunderbolt came in a BT7 thread that McLoven started. Although it wss challanged by another poster, McLoven ran away with it, most prominately in Rabbit's otherwise excellent April 2014 review thread of various gut strings, and then culminating in this thread.

Just interesting seeing how a speculative idea morphs slowly into internet fact by well meaning posters and a reminder we should all strive for more responsible posting!

With my luck, today will be the day that someone will report back with a confirming report of a Wilson NG pack with BT7! But I don't think it's happened yet and i won't speculate further on if we should expect it to in the near or far future because I just don't know.
 

GlenK

Professional
There have been many discussions on this, and I don't know if there has ever been a definitive answer as to whether Wilson NG has transitioned over 100% to BT7 or not.

Logic would dictate that, if Babolat is no longer producing non-BT7 for themselves, then they wouldn't continue for Wilson either. That would require them to keep two separate manufacturing processes going, which doesn't seem very cost-effective, especially when the margins on Natural Gut can't be that high.

Bottom line is, I've hit w/ the BT7 stuff and didn't like it at all. Not going to risk $43 on something I'm not sure about.
Wilson Nat Gut I've ordered from TW does not have Bt7. I'm sure of that. Also, Prince NG is comparable without BT7 and it was a close 2nd imo to Wilson NG when I was looking for replacement gut without BT7.
 

000KFACTOR90000

Professional
What's interesting is that I have done a search on "Wilson Natural Gut BT7" and tried to track down how this rumor even got started and the earliest I could find is McLoven himself, the OP on this thread. I could find no other posts before McLoven. McLoven's contention is that he got this information from other posters here on this forum, but i can't find any evidence of that.

I guess I'm opening myself for some hurt here being a newbie poster, calling out a 'Hall of Fame' poster but I think it's funny that a few of us here have been snookered into hoarding the Wilson NG old packaging based on some imaginative posting of a guy named Mcloven!

It does sound plausible, even likely that Babalot wouldn't continue two different manufacturing lines, but does anyone really know? Just wondering if someone suggested this here, repeated, and it's now been accepted as gospel? Are there any first hand accounts by respected members here who have opened up a Wilson NG package and discovered BT7?
No you're not, great post and welcome to the forum; already a valuable contributor in my book :)
 
I agree.
Too much emphasis on new poster / experienced poster ethos. It is just time and quantity. Really just quantity.
It amazes me the weak, sheeplike groupthink that goes on. I am not just talking about tennisdorks.

You did not call anyone out. You just posted quality.

Thanks.

Oh, and your idea of using a microscope is solid.

Meanwhile, i will stick to vs gut avec bt7 because it is better for my purposes.
 

McLovin

Legend
Well, if that is the case, then I apologize. I cannot recall where the first discussion on Wilson moving to BT7 came about, and if I have further perpetrated the false rumor, I am truly sorry.

Rest assured I was NOT confused by the color of packaging, but took my info from what other posters claimed. Again, my bad if that is not the case.
 

McLovin

Legend
Man, I'm obsessing now, but I'm finding myself obsessed on the eptymology of how an internet rumor can get started. The first posts I can find on this subject are in Jan 2012 where posters were surmising how it was possible that Babalot will stop producing non BT7 (old VS) eventually and how that will be a sad day. Various speculative posts after that.

Then out of the blue, in Dec 2013, "Professional" poster Swan Song came up with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan Song View Post
"For the folks that are using the Wilson Natural Gut, I believe the newer batches have transitioned onto the BT7."

Unfortunately, that thunderbolt came in a BT7 thread that McLoven started. Although it wss challanged by another poster, McLoven ran away with it, most prominately in Rabbit's otherwise excellent April 2014 review thread of various gut strings, and then culminating in this thread.

Just interesting seeing how a speculative idea morphs slowly into internet fact by well meaning posters and a reminder we should all strive for more responsible posting!

With my luck, today will be the day that someone will report back with a confirming report of a Wilson NG pack with BT7! But I don't think it's happened yet and i won't speculate further on if we should expect it to in the near or far future because I just don't know.
OK, so I did a bit of research, and in my defense, I corrected myself in Rabbit's thread:

me said:
You know, I complain so often about people doing what I just did, so please let me rephrase that...

From what I have read here, Wilson Natural gut is starting to show up with 'BT' written on the packaging, and people are claiming it feels stiffer. I cannot confirm that personally as what I have is 'old' stock (blue packaging).

I can confirm that BT7 does play different, and I do not like it.
See http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=491221#19
 

maxpotapov

Hall of Fame
No, it's OK to be upset and expect nothing good from major brands anymore. They totally deserve it.
Now it's a shocking news when a new product delivers value to customers, not just shareholders.
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
I didn't read the whole thread, but I never bought your claim that Wilson natural gut was softer, to me it feels stiffer then the Babolat VS Team 17 BT7.
And that's exactly why they make more than one kind of.....well everything.
 

McLovin

Legend
I didn't read the whole thread, but I never bought your claim that Wilson natural gut was softer, to me it feels stiffer then the Babolat VS Team 17 BT7.
Yes, which is why at the beginning of my thread (this one: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=484792) I asked for people's opinion before giving mine. I realize that describing 'feel' as far as strings and racquets go is very, very subjective.

If everyone came in and said 'feels fine to me', then I'd know it was all in my head. But if a considerable number of people came in and said 'feels stiffer', then I'm not imagining it.

Bottom line: If you like it, use it. If you don't...then don't.
 
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joetennisact

New User
Man, I'm obsessing now, but I'm finding myself obsessed on the eptymology of how an internet rumor can get started. The first posts I can find on this subject are in Jan 2012 where posters were surmising how it was possible that Babalot will stop producing non BT7 (old VS) eventually and how that will be a sad day. Various speculative posts after that.

Then out of the blue, in Dec 2013, "Professional" poster Swan Song came up with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan Song View Post
"For the folks that are using the Wilson Natural Gut, I believe the newer batches have transitioned onto the BT7."

Unfortunately, that thunderbolt came in a BT7 thread that McLoven started. Although it wss challanged by another poster, McLoven ran away with it, most prominately in Rabbit's otherwise excellent April 2014 review thread of various gut strings, and then culminating in this thread.

Just interesting seeing how a speculative idea morphs slowly into internet fact by well meaning posters and a reminder we should all strive for more responsible posting!

With my luck, today will be the day that someone will report back with a confirming report of a Wilson NG pack with BT7! But I don't think it's happened yet and i won't speculate further on if we should expect it to in the near or far future because I just don't know.
 

ultradr

Legend
I'm calling this whole thread a bunch of BT, I mean BS. I'm guessing OP assumed there was a difference between the prior blue packaging and the "new" white packaging with red letters in that the Blue did not have BT7 and the White was BT7. Let me assure you, that was not the case. I know the Wilson Natural Gut 16 I just bought last week in the White packaking was absolutely not BT7. In stead of passing on rumours or innuendo, I wish posters would just post first hand accounts on this particular issue!
I did not find OP suggesting white package is BT7. OP just is not sure if current
Wilson gut is BT7 or not since he/she is down to the last one.
 
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