Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by JackB1, Jun 4, 2013.
If someone walks through my court during play, they become a nice target.
If there is another option, I take it, of course. Often, there is just one gate on public courts. And some indoor courts require a full trudge across other courts, or at least a "head around the curtain" moment.
This shouldn't be that hard. If you see someone standing there waiting to cross, continue your rally until someone can't return the ball. At that point, motion the person across.
Why should the person waiting have to guess? A smile, a wave, a nod. Why ignore them?
And the people crossing should step lively, not saunter.
"-during warmup, they don't attempt to hit the ball easily back to you"
I find this the most annoying. It covers the slices, drop shots, and 100% pace in one neat little package - they just refuse to hit the ball back to you. Sometimes it is just gamesmanship to prevent you from warming up and gauging your opponent's ball, and sometimes it's just because they don't have control over their own strokes.
However, the problem with the 100% pace thing is that pace is all relative. For me, I often hit harder than my opponents on a consistent basis (and I'm at my level because I'm inconsistent), including during the warmups. It's not that I'm even trying to hit hard - my warm up strokes are just harder than my opponent's strokes. However, I do get looks from my opponents because they think I'm trying to out-hit them, but I'm not. It's all about perspective.
Warming up is about just mellowly getting the ball to the opponent particularly for the first minutes. After that some pace can be added but be sure as heck to get that ball to them.
If a guy is crushing balls you can't get to in warm up there's an easy way to rectify it. Retrieve the ball(s), then prepare to hit the ball over the net but be sure to toss it out in front of you and hit it 20' to his left he can't get that begining rally ball.
Now when he's staring at you bug-eyed as that ball hits the back fence, toss another and gently hit this one 20' to his right to solidify your point. Now he's got the message and either warmup will cease or it will be all nice.
We need to narrow this one down a bit. I had a guy get ****ed off at me last week because I did exactly what you posted. The only problem was that I was a step inside the baseline and his shot flew by me at eye level, to the point it hit the bottom edge of the back fence on the fly. Unless he expected it to hit an invisible wall, I could have called it out once it crossed the net it was so long.
I've also seen opponents catch balls out of the air when they are well behind the baseline (and before they bounce). As a technical matter, that should be my point. As a practical matter, however, I have no issue with it because it speeds up the game and they don't have to go chase it down. When it happens, though, I generally let them know that while I don't have an issue with it, more high strung opponents will call it their point.
I think tennis players often overestimate their abilities to divine the intent of the other player. Unless my guy starts running his mouth, I generally let things go.
When a ball from another court rolls onto my court, and my partner has to stop to pick it up in front of them, they end up missing the ball in play...and the opponents refuse the let, and demand the point.
Without an umpire when a ball rolls onto the court, immediately call a let and then pick up the ball after the call not before.
Not sure who them and they are but that's a let and anyone on your court can call it.
Not too many of these things get to me but this one really annoys me. Especially on my serve.
And don't complain about 3.5/4.0 straying.
Find a 5.0 next court, offer them $20-40 to hit where you want.
Good one. I shall use that
I can tell you if I hit a ball that long and you actually verbally called it out, I'd be a little bit annoyed too.
Hmmmm, I know this was said in jest but I wonder.
If a 3.0 walked up to me and said I will pay you $40.00 if you hit with me for 30 minutes I doubt I would do it .... I would be more likely to hit with you if you just said .... "hey dude, would you mind hitting with me for a few minutes"
Which perfectly illustrates my point, because I've had older guys tell me, in dead seriousness, that I need to call each ball, including the one I described, out. Nor was the player's beef that I called it out in the first place; instead, he was peeved because it was an "early" line call.
Agree with some, not with others. I am the opposite of you when a ball gets served into the net. I make them go pick it up because it can be considered a distraction according to USTA rules. It also makes them uncomfortable when they have to reset for a 2nd serve, and it is within the rules. "Hooking" when the ball is close to the lines is an extremely common occurrence, especially in USTA leagues, tournaments, and NCAA matches. After the 2nd or 3rd one, If there are no referees available, I wait until they are serving, and when the ball lands in the middle of the service box, I call it out, and say to him "If you want to keep making bad line calls, that is fine with me, because the next time I will take a game from you." Works every time. They either stop hooking, or get so mad that they implode and lose every game from then on.
Gotcha. Those old guys can be ridiculous.
That was a ridiculous recent rule change. You pointed out how it can be used for gamesmanship to disrupt the server's rhythm. I liked it better when I was responsible for the balls on my side and my opponent had no say in making me clear it if it wasn't bothering me.
Actually, if my opponent chooses not to clear a ball on his side, and I can hit it, it's my point. Or, if I place my return where he has to avoid stepping on the ball, it's good for me if he leave's it there.
I can't imagine anyone doing this. I would walk off the court.
A win's a win.
Clearly. Discussing no other option and a practice rally. Waiting to it's completion is more than enough.
Do they teach a class on tennis etiquette? I'd hate to think I might be risking someone attacking me because I am doing something that isn't to their liking.
Yes, I am kidding.
Maybe there is an idea for a weekly (tongue in cheek) column here? Maybe a blog on TW??
Honestly i warm up like crap, you'd hate me bc hey i hit the ball hard taking speed off it makes me hit more errors. you want a ball in during warm up or not?
"warm ups" are a horrible name, 5 min of light hitting is not enough warm up for a competitive match. don't pretend like it is. its a chance to get a feel for your opponent before match. your gonna see lots of hard shots and drop shots and high lobs during a match.
calling balls out before it lands- first time i ask them to not do that. next time i call hindrance. people do that and then a ball hits the line and they just stick with the bad call bc they feel embarrassed.
saying expletive is a point penalty after a warning. i am guilty of this and will give my opponent point if i feel i hit a crap shot yelled and it landed in.
hitting out serves hard..... so soft is okay?
not in the way for you but maybe for them. here is an idea get your serves in and the last two complaints go away....jk.
we played a match Tuesday. Leading 5-0.
Server's second serve at set point. I was at the server box line (wasn't receiving) and saw it clearly a couple inches out and called it out (if I'm in doubt I'll rule in the opponent's favor).
Server got mad and said "you're up 5-0 and you called that out?"
Unfortunate way to drop a match, but if it was out it was out. You were right there and had no doubt. There shouldn't be any calls based on compassion.
Out is out. seriously getting the ball in the service box isn't tough
how about "you are losing 0-5 and you can't get a second serve in....are you even trying?"
i actually get mad when someone is losing and keeps hitting the same bad shots and throws it, especially serves. get the serve in, losing by double is not better than losing bc opponent hits a winner.
No it's not. You're hitting too hard. It's your job to play so the opponent can warm u and its his to play so you can. If he cant warm up because "your average is harder than there's" then you need to take some pace off. I hit the ball pretty hard, if someone hit substantially less hard than I did, I'm taking some off so we can find a comfortable rhythm for both of us. If they're looking at you like that, it's not because they think you're hitting it too hard, it's because you are. I couldn't care less the motive of an opponent, if he's hitting too hard in warmups he's hitting too hard in warm ups.
I warm up to get loose so I can play my game. If in the warm up I can discern more than whether your back hand or forehand is your stronger wing, you're giving too much up, at least if we're talking competitive. In college I'm not even hitting out 100% on serves. Might give him 90 after I'm loose once but he's not seeing how I play in warm ups or how I pick shots ( ie lobs drops etc). You said yourself its a chance to figure out your opponent, so why let them? Warm up is a perfect name for it, sounds like what you want is a pre match
x2 QFT. Usually, if I have the luxury I will get to the courts an hour earlier than match time and go all out hitting and warm ups at 100% with a team mate or a friend. Then when opponents arrive it is just a matter of staying warm and working on form for muscle memory(well that's how I feel, whether it does anything or not is up in the air but it helps me mentally for sure.) I'll be hitting probably somewhere around 80% making sure I'm doing proper form on all my strokes. Same with serve practice. All slice serves maybe a top spin serve to see how it is doing. Even then it is just weight shift serves and not really full on jump into the court serves.
Thanks guys - I wish I was making that up but it was basically verbatim
That's cheating. I won't ever cheat to win. Period.
This isn't about etiquette it's about rule but it ended up combining both. Tonight I was playing a mixed doubles ladder match the male on the team is only in his second year of tennis. He was a very enthusiastic and vocal player and that was fine but frequently would yell out "Great shot", "Good Placement", "Awesome Shot" to his partner, who had hit the ball, just as I was taking a backswing to hit it. I didn't miss my shot but it was distracting. Sometimes he'd start celebrating what he thought was a winner while we still had a play on it too.
After about the 4th time I thought I'd let him know that what he was doing was a hindrance and although I don't normally call people on them, other teams will and he probably should try to curtail it. He told me if another team complains about it he "will go toe to toe with them and will not stop celebrating points". I tried to explain that it wasn't about being rude, it was a rule he was breaking and distracting his opponents. He just said he didn't care.
I was surprised because his partner has been playing for years and I thought would have clued him in. What really surprised me though was his attitude that the rules didn't really matter. Do you run across many who feel this way? How do you play a match with someone like that?
Can't really fix all this, every club/league has players like this
Well there is no rule against celebrating points (within the time constraints) but obviously it must be a point and it is hindrance if you celebrate when the ball is still in play. But what I do not get is why he celebrate it even when the ball is still in play.
Did you make it clear to him you have no objection to him saying "great shot" or similar things but only after the point is made?
Calmly warn him about the rule. Next time it happens, catch the ball and take the point.
I will tolerate all sorts of communication, exclamations, exhalations when a player really should be quiet.
What I won't tolerate is heckling or celebrations while the ball is in play.
I have only called a hindrance once, for whooping and celebrating while I was running down a lob. I took the point. The celebrations stopped immediately.
Now that I've warned him about it I will do that next time if we play. I did tell him to celebrate to his hearts content after the point, but not during. Like I said i was surprised when he told me he has no intention of stopping and will have it out with whomever calls it on him. I'm really not interested in getting in to a scene on the court.
Sounds like he needs to be on lithium
Sounds like a lawyer I once knew, nice guy off the court but the rules didn't apply to him. To the roving referee: "Foot faulting is only a technical violation!" Got all A's in his "Self-Esteem" classes at Harvard Law. The club pro or court supervisor should be pulling the DB aside and informing him of the rule of tennis, shouldn't be your job, but, maybe club pro is off playing golf.
Reading all these examples of idiots on the courts, I wonder if this has anything to do with the drop in players playing or is it just the fact so many people are overweight these days.
UTSA warmup is 5 min. I wish i could warm up my forehand, backhand, legs, foot work, serve, overhead, volleys in that amount of time. maybe you play where it is a longer time, tennis would be better served to prevent injuries if there was a better approach to "warm up".
and i am not saying blast winners, but firm balls to the player also let them know you can hit hard and in. blasting balls left and right and hitting angled winners that make the guy run is wrong and pointless. also high lobs, sorry i don't practice low lobs and really suck at hitting them. in fact the idea of warming up overheads by feeding short low lobs is strange, who practices short low lobs?????????? of course i hit that shot like crap, i never practice it except in a warm up to feed someone overheads. i will offer to to stand closer and hand toss the ball, bc i just can't hit that shot 9 out of ten times.
I think this is completely nonsense, do you have any data to back up that injuries happen because players 'only' warmup for 5 minutes? Show me a chart that most of the injuries in a match happen in say the first 10 minutes of the match and we talk.
So how long do you want players to warmup so that they allegedly won't have injuries? One hour, two hours?
That is like asking for proof that drunk driving causes accidents by looking at whether the accidents happened only in the first 5 minutes of driving.
Injuries don't always happen all of a sudden. Playing without proper stretching or warm-up causes harm over a period of time.
I agree that one needs to warmup but we disagree over the amount of time, I think 5 minutes is enough. So then how long do you think someone needs to warmup? How many minutes?
Why anyone would want to stretch as part of a warmup routine is beyond me.
Stretching is mandatory if the muscles are short but it never should be done 10 minutes before a game. Once you frequently stretch (off court!) and you are flexible and stay fit stretching becomes less important it becomes low maintenance.
I always have to laugh if I see these three second arms and leg stretches before a match, a completely useless activity.
It depends on age and also on what you were doing before. Older people should do more stretching and warm-up. People who land up running from work in which they sit all day with screwed-up posture should be careful.
I definitely agree with that but not 10 minutes before a match, if their muscles are too short it is way to late to correct it at that time.
I they really want to stretch on the court do it after the match, but much better in my opinion, do it at home while listening to a relaxing piece of music and take your time doing it.
My issue is calling five minutes a "warm up". its not. its a pre-hit/sizeup your opponent time. its a time to see just how well you are seeing the ball that day and moving.
do you think you would really play worse if you didn't get that five minute hit in before a match?
ppl should warm up before they step up for their match, and yes for a real match at least five minutes of light cardio of some sort with some good dynamic stretching would do a hell of a lot for those people who constantly have back, knee, elbow issues. You think the pros are just sitting there before a match and warm up on court??????
maybe for those who just go out for a hit its fine but if your goal is to play a competitive match and not whine about how much better your opponent was then you need more than 5 minutes to get your body going let alone warm up your stokes. for a real UTSA match i would say 30min beforehand, as most people who take it seriously do anyway. to warm up there bodies and warm up their stokes in a non time crunched manner.
but since you ask
not studies but if actually read the first article you'll notice how it mentions the issues with actually properly testing null hypothesis with regards to stretching and warm up preventing injures. for those not scientifically inclined basically you would have to get volunteers to willing warm up and not warm up and then try to get injured....not going to be many takers. therefore most studies are actually correlation studies and composite research pieces.
or the inverse please supply your study that says warming up and dynamic stretches does nothing to prevent injury.
and stretching is not the proper word. your point on it is very valid, one will not "stretch" their muscles and ligaments in a pre-match anything, expect to hurt themselves.
the point is to first get blood flow going and prepare teh body for hard running on a hard court and stretching the arms while torquing to hit a ball. lost of angular pressure on spine and joints and ligaments
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