"It's time for a grass court Masters tournament"

Plamen1234

Hall of Fame
Article from Tennis Magazine about this topic.I agree with them - imo there should be at least one grass court Master tournament.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2018/06/its-time-grass-court-masters-tournament/74847/

"ATP Masters 1000 tournaments are loaded with talent and loved by fans. There are three held on clay between April and May, and there are six on hard courts: two in the U.S. in the spring, another two in North America in the summer, and two more in the fall, in China and France.

There is something missing from this annual circuit of top-flight tennis: grass. The old surface and the stage for the most prestigious Grand Slam tournament is so cherished that the ATP, WTA and the leaders of Grand Slams decided to extend the lead-in to Wimbledon to three weeks after the French Open, rather than two. The move has been lauded by players, many of whom now play two grass events before Wimbledon. Last year, Roger Federer, who didn’t play on clay, showed how ideal this setup can be. In his first grass tournament, in Stuttgart, he lost his first match. But he went on to win the Halle grass event, and then won Wimbledon without losing a set.

With all that the grass-court swing offers, it deserves a Masters event. The grass “season” is the shortest among the surfaces, and players proficient on turf should be given more opportunity to gather prize money, ranking points and prestige. A Masters event would narrow the wide margin of top-tier tournaments offered on grass and clay, and give fans more reason to stay tuned in to the tours between Roland Garros and Wimbledon.

This isn’t as simple as bumping an existing grass tournament to the Masters level, particularly when the two biggest events—Queen’s Club and Halle—take place in the same week. If one of those became a Masters event, the other would suffer. My solution: make both of them Masters events, and require eligible players to compete in one of them. The tournaments would need to expand their footprints, which would take some time, but it would be worth it: the events could sell more tickets, and the starpower and depth of their fields would attract more fans on site and on television


What would be even better is if these two events included ATP and WTA draws, like the Indian Wells, Miami, Madrid, Rome and Cincinnati tournaments. This would hurt some existing tournaments, but women should be able to earn as much money and exposure as men. (An alternative: the current WTA Premier-level grass tournament in Birmingham could become a Premier Mandatory event.)

Tennis has been growing, but there’s still room for additional expansion in terms of ranking points and prize money—which creates stronger fields and attracts more fans. There is an opportunity to do this on grass, an overlooked yet traditional surface. Such an investment would benefit the tours and players, and make this classic surface thrive in a modern era"
 
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Currently the best time for Grass Masters is 2 to 3 weeks after Wimbledon with at least 2-off ATP 250 between.
Can't see it happening. The 250 aren't an issue but moving Halle timing or manufacturing a new Tourney is.
 

Can't quite hear him. What is he saying? :D

As to the OP, yes, of course. Grass should have had an M1000 for ages. And the solution put forward by this article (ie make Halle and Queen's joint M1000's) actually has some merit. This would mean they would be "lesser" M1000's as far as the field is concerned, of course (ie not all top players could compete in each, for obvious reasons), but it's already the case with MC, which is basically a recreational tournament offering tons of points for those who bother to show up, nowadays. And it makes sense, in a way. As most M1000's are on HC, having an "easy" one for clay and grass specialists (such as they are) wouldn't be a bad idea at all.
 
I would approve of a grass masters but this is too infeasible given the proximity of RG and WI. The only solution I can think of would be to have a grass masters during the summer hard court swing, and that would mean changing Montreal/Toronto to grass court. Only problem there is that it would take away from preparation for USO.

Frenchies obviously don't want to move RG back so things will remain stagnant until ATP cuts down on tournaments in the season, which will never happen.
 
I would approve of a grass masters but this is too infeasible given the proximity of RG and WI. The only solution I can think of would be to have a grass masters during the summer hard court swing, and that would mean changing Montreal/Toronto to grass court. Only problem there is that it would take away from preparation for USO.

Frenchies obviously don't want to move RG back so things will remain stagnant until ATP cuts down on tournaments in the season, which will never happen.
Clay has 3 masters, grass 0. Just remove one clay masters and add one grass masters, problem solved.
 
Dont see this happening. Unless they add a 10th Masters 1000, it is impossible.
Taking away a clay masters is also non-sense since there are only 3 to 6 HC masters. Yeah yeah I know clay is an obsolete surface and nobody cares about it, but sorry to tell you mate, things are like this :D
I would love to take 1 HC masters away and replace it with an indoor carpet Master (you would need a lot of indoor courts so I think that is not possible) and add a 10th grass masters.
 
Can't quite hear him. What is he saying? :D

As to the OP, yes, of course. Grass should have had an M1000 for ages. And the solution put forward by this article (ie make Halle and Queen's joint M1000's) actually has some merit. This would mean they would be "lesser" M1000's as far as the field is concerned, of course (ie not all top players could compete in each, for obvious reasons), but it's already the case with MC, which is basically a recreational tournament offering tons of points for those who bother to show up, nowadays. And it makes sense, in a way. As most M1000's are on HC, having an "easy" one for clay and grass specialists (such as they are) wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

If you're making them joint M1000 events, just have them different weeks and alternate which one is the M1000 and which one is the 500.

Personally, I'd like to see them have two M1000s anyway, lengthening the grass swing.
 
2 slow HC Masters 1000- IW and Miami
Australian Open
2 Clay Masters 1000- Madrid and Rome
French Open
2 Grass Masters 1000- Queens and Halle
Wimbledon
2 fast HC Masters 1000- Canada and Cincinnati
US Open
1 Indoor Carpet Masters 1000- Paris
Year-End Championship

Parity of surfaces which will reward versatile players
 
2 slow HC Masters 1000- IW and Miami
Australian Open
2 Clay Masters 1000- Madrid and Rome
French Open
2 Grass Masters 1000- Queens and Halle
Wimbledon
2 fast HC Masters 1000- Canada and Cincinnati
US Open
1 Indoor Carpet Masters 1000- Paris
Year-End Championship
Wrong. HC is the main surface, they need most masters. But, grass and clay are special surfaces, so they need equivalent masters. So, 4 HC masters, 2 clay and 2 grass masters sounds quite decent and the correct mathematical ratio.
 
Currently the best time for Grass Masters is 2 to 3 weeks after Wimbledon with at least 2-off ATP 250 between.
Can't see it happening. The 250 aren't an issue but moving Halle timing or manufacturing a new Tourney is.
I don't think you even need to manufacture a new tournament! You don't even need THAT much more time. I know them moving Wimbledon back one week took far too long so expecting any more movement on that front is probably impossible, but if they moved it back just one more week you could have back to back 1000s in Halle and then Queens with a week either side where you could fit in the 250s in Rosmalen, and Stuttgart, and Eastbourne and whatnot.

Move Wimbledon back two weeks more and you could probably bump one of those up to being a 500 as well.

I don't know if it's down to the ITF or the LTA or who, but the stubbornness of Wimbledon sticking so close to Roland Garros is just so idiotic on so many different levels. Having two grand slams on two totally different surfaces so close to each other is (awe inspiring if you win them both, but) magnificently stupid, London has more sun, higher temperatures and less rain in July than June, so the weather will be better, and the schools break up so that stupid queue will be twice as long, and the viewing figures will be higher.

The only legit downside is that the players would lose another week in the closest thing to an off season that they have before things get going in America.
 
If you're making them joint M1000 events, just have them different weeks and alternate which one is the M1000 and which one is the 500.

Personally, I'd like to see them have two M1000s anyway, lengthening the grass swing.

Making one an M1000 and not the other may pose a problem, though: Halle has got the installations, and Queen's has got the history. So Halle would probably be the obvious choice (especially since London's already got two of the five biggest tournaments in the world), but still...
 
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I don't think you even need to manufacture a new tournament! You don't even need THAT much more time. I know them moving Wimbledon back one week took far too long so expecting any more movement on that front is probably impossible, but if they moved it back just one more week you could have back to back 1000s in Halle and then Queens with a week either side where you could fit in the 250s in Rosmalen, and Stuttgart, and Eastbourne and whatnot.

Move Wimbledon back two weeks more and you could probably bump one of those up to being a 500 as well.

I don't know if it's down to the ITF or the LTA or who, but the stubbornness of Wimbledon sticking so close to Roland Garros is just so idiotic on so many different levels. Having two grand slams on two totally different surfaces so close to each other is (awe inspiring if you win them both, but) magnificently stupid, London has more sun, higher temperatures and less rain in July than June, so the weather will be better, and the schools break up so that stupid queue will be twice as long, and the viewing figures will be higher.

The only legit downside is that the players would lose another week in the closest thing to an off season that they have before things get going in America.
Back to back M1000 is not a good thing. It does not work well for IW & MI double. But to follow it with with a Major is too much.
Need time between M1000 and Major Better to move Halle after Wimbledon with 2 week minimum break if weather suits. Keep Queens the traditional warm up as is so players FO > Queens 500 > Wimbledon 2000> Halle 1000. With some 250 around.
This will length grass 3 weeks. Allow add 500pts, make 1 compulsory grass, increase prize money at Halle, reduce appearance money at Halle..
 
Article from Tennis Magazine about this topic.I agree with them - imo there should be at least one grass court Master tournament.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2018/06/its-time-grass-court-masters-tournament/74847/

"ATP Masters 1000 tournaments are loaded with talent and loved by fans. There are three held on clay between April and May, and there are six on hard courts: two in the U.S. in the spring, another two in North America in the summer, and two more in the fall, in China and France.

There is something missing from this annual circuit of top-flight tennis: grass. The old surface and the stage for the most prestigious Grand Slam tournament is so cherished that the ATP, WTA and the leaders of Grand Slams decided to extend the lead-in to Wimbledon to three weeks after the French Open, rather than two. The move has been lauded by players, many of whom now play two grass events before Wimbledon. Last year, Roger Federer, who didn’t play on clay, showed how ideal this setup can be. In his first grass tournament, in Stuttgart, he lost his first match. But he went on to win the Halle grass event, and then won Wimbledon without losing a set.

With all that the grass-court swing offers, it deserves a Masters event. The grass “season” is the shortest among the surfaces, and players proficient on turf should be given more opportunity to gather prize money, ranking points and prestige. A Masters event would narrow the wide margin of top-tier tournaments offered on grass and clay, and give fans more reason to stay tuned in to the tours between Roland Garros and Wimbledon.

This isn’t as simple as bumping an existing grass tournament to the Masters level, particularly when the two biggest events—Queen’s Club and Halle—take place in the same week. If one of those became a Masters event, the other would suffer. My solution: make both of them Masters events, and require eligible players to compete in one of them. The tournaments would need to expand their footprints, which would take some time, but it would be worth it: the events could sell more tickets, and the starpower and depth of their fields would attract more fans on site and on television


What would be even better is if these two events included ATP and WTA draws, like the Indian Wells, Miami, Madrid, Rome and Cincinnati tournaments. This would hurt some existing tournaments, but women should be able to earn as much money and exposure as men. (An alternative: the current WTA Premier-level grass tournament in Birmingham could become a Premier Mandatory event.)

Tennis has been growing, but there’s still room for additional expansion in terms of ranking points and prize money—which creates stronger fields and attracts more fans. There is an opportunity to do this on grass, an overlooked yet traditional surface. Such an investment would benefit the tours and players, and make this classic surface thrive in a modern era"
Please forgive me for answering to your carefully elaborated post with a simple... No.
 
Who cares now, Federer will be long retired before they introduce it.

Anyway, my suggestion is ban Monte Carlo, start the clay season a week earlier and give more time for that grass MS to be played after the FO.
Keep Monte-Carlo, switch it to grass, and start the grass season one week earlier. It's a magnificent location, I don't really want to see go away, but since it's a non-mandatory M1000 I think it would give it a bit more interest, despite being pretty well frequented by top ranked players especially since it counts in the ATP500 quota. That said, I wonder how difficult it would be to groove the grass in a location so close to the sea: salt tends to burn the grass pretty bad.
 
Exactly. There are 4 clay Masters 1000's and Rafa has feasted on those since 2004. Had there been even one Masters 1000, Fed would have 35 Masters 1000 wins, easily. But it is what it is and slams matter a million times more anyway.
Not 35 with one. He would have to have won it 8 more times than he won HC masters on top of what he won their. He wouldn’t be able to keep that rate up. Nadal and Djokovic will get their share of wins on grass as well. 3 CC masters 1000s not 4. Federer had his advantages with WTFs staying indoors and the quicker AO courts in 2017-2018 and 2005 as well.
 
I don't think you even need to manufacture a new tournament! You don't even need THAT much more time. I know them moving Wimbledon back one week took far too long so expecting any more movement on that front is probably impossible, but if they moved it back just one more week you could have back to back 1000s in Halle and then Queens with a week either side where you could fit in the 250s in Rosmalen, and Stuttgart, and Eastbourne and whatnot.

Move Wimbledon back two weeks more and you could probably bump one of those up to being a 500 as well.

I don't know if it's down to the ITF or the LTA or who, but the stubbornness of Wimbledon sticking so close to Roland Garros is just so idiotic on so many different levels. Having two grand slams on two totally different surfaces so close to each other is (awe inspiring if you win them both, but) magnificently stupid, London has more sun, higher temperatures and less rain in July than June, so the weather will be better, and the schools break up so that stupid queue will be twice as long, and the viewing figures will be higher.

The only legit downside is that the players would lose another week in the closest thing to an off season that they have before things get going in America.
the European summer schedule is already totally packed. and moving Wimbly a week more back would give the players even less rest before the Canada Masters.
so that would lead to a conflict between Europe and America.
the level of the Canada Masters is already the second lowest after Bercy.

and now imagine an Olympic year. :p


...and the players are against cutting back the clay season in favour of frikking grass. :p:p
 
I'm OK with having Masters 1000 on grass, as long as they also annually rotate the WTF to make it one year on indoor clay, the next year on indoor grass, and the next year on indoor hard courts (not only on indoor hard courts every year).

Either we pursue surface distribution in all cases or not. Otherwise, we would be displaying a double standard logic just to favour Federer.
 
I'm OK with having Masters 1000 on grass, as long as they also annually rotate the WTF to make it one year on indoor clay, the next year on indoor grass, and the next year on indoor hard courts (not only on indoor hard courts every year).

Either we pursue surface distribution in all cases or not. Otherwise, we would be displaying a double standard logic just to favour Federer.

Not sure why we should have to link the grass Masters debate with one about the WTF. The latter has always been played on hardcourts (with one exception back in 1974) whilst grass is the only surface that does not have at least one Masters tournament to its name. Two quite separate issues.
 
Article from Tennis Magazine about this topic.I agree with them - imo there should be at least one grass court Master tournament.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2018/06/its-time-grass-court-masters-tournament/74847/

"ATP Masters 1000 tournaments are loaded with talent and loved by fans. There are three held on clay between April and May, and there are six on hard courts: two in the U.S. in the spring, another two in North America in the summer, and two more in the fall, in China and France.

There is something missing from this annual circuit of top-flight tennis: grass. The old surface and the stage for the most prestigious Grand Slam tournament is so cherished that the ATP, WTA and the leaders of Grand Slams decided to extend the lead-in to Wimbledon to three weeks after the French Open, rather than two. The move has been lauded by players, many of whom now play two grass events before Wimbledon. Last year, Roger Federer, who didn’t play on clay, showed how ideal this setup can be. In his first grass tournament, in Stuttgart, he lost his first match. But he went on to win the Halle grass event, and then won Wimbledon without losing a set.

With all that the grass-court swing offers, it deserves a Masters event. The grass “season” is the shortest among the surfaces, and players proficient on turf should be given more opportunity to gather prize money, ranking points and prestige. A Masters event would narrow the wide margin of top-tier tournaments offered on grass and clay, and give fans more reason to stay tuned in to the tours between Roland Garros and Wimbledon.

This isn’t as simple as bumping an existing grass tournament to the Masters level, particularly when the two biggest events—Queen’s Club and Halle—take place in the same week. If one of those became a Masters event, the other would suffer. My solution: make both of them Masters events, and require eligible players to compete in one of them. The tournaments would need to expand their footprints, which would take some time, but it would be worth it: the events could sell more tickets, and the starpower and depth of their fields would attract more fans on site and on television


What would be even better is if these two events included ATP and WTA draws, like the Indian Wells, Miami, Madrid, Rome and Cincinnati tournaments. This would hurt some existing tournaments, but women should be able to earn as much money and exposure as men. (An alternative: the current WTA Premier-level grass tournament in Birmingham could become a Premier Mandatory event.)

Tennis has been growing, but there’s still room for additional expansion in terms of ranking points and prize money—which creates stronger fields and attracts more fans. There is an opportunity to do this on grass, an overlooked yet traditional surface. Such an investment would benefit the tours and players, and make this classic surface thrive in a modern era"

What an original topic to create a thread about....amazing to think this has never been discussed here before!
 
Clay has 3 masters, grass 0. Just remove one clay masters and add one grass masters, problem solved.

Thank god for Jack - hey everyone, Jack solved the problem, well done Jack!!

So I assume we'll just scrap MC or Madrid & play a grass court Masters when whichever one we get rid of was meant to be played?

What a genius Jack is!
 
Wrong. HC is the main surface, they need most masters. But, grass and clay are special surfaces, so they need equivalent masters. So, 4 HC masters, 2 clay and 2 grass masters sounds quite decent and the correct mathematical ratio.
Too bad that granting equality to clay and grass does not represent how tennis is currently played around the world at all.
Clay is not a “special surface”, in many geographies around the world is the main surface where the sport is being played. The same can’t be said about grass, which is a niche surface in my opinion.
 
Not sure why we should have to link the grass Masters debate with one about the WTF. The latter has always been played on hardcourts (with one exception back in 1974) whilst grass is the only surface that does not have at least one Masters tournament to its name. Two quite separate issues.
Then why do people here want grass masters at cost of clay masters???? There are too many HC masters which needs to be sized down or some of them has to replaced by grass masters. The reality is that many haters are burning inside unable to digest the fact that Nadal has more masters than Fed, so always trying to degrade clay wherever, whenever .
 
Wrong. HC is the main surface, they need most masters. But, grass and clay are special surfaces, so they need equivalent masters. So, 4 HC masters, 2 clay and 2 grass masters sounds quite decent and the correct mathematical ratio.

How did you determine there should be as many clay as grass? Id like to see one but two would require more time between the FO and Wimbledon and I think would be a mistake given how osbscure its become as a surface.
 
Not sure why we should have to link the grass Masters debate with one about the WTF. The latter has always been played on hardcourts (with one exception back in 1974) whilst grass is the only surface that does not have at least one Masters tournament to its name. Two quite separate issues.

Welcome to the fuzzy and self-justifying mental gymnastics of the average nadal fan.
 
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Back to back M1000 is not a good thing. It does not work well for IW & MI double. But to follow it with with a Major is too much.
Need time between M1000 and Major Better to move Halle after Wimbledon with 2 week minimum break if weather suits. Keep Queens the traditional warm up as is so players FO > Queens 500 > Wimbledon 2000> Halle 1000. With some 250 around.
This will length grass 3 weeks. Allow add 500pts, make 1 compulsory grass, increase prize money at Halle, reduce appearance money at Halle..
Did you even bother to go to Google Maps and look at Halle? It has NO room to expand. There is no way to make it a 1000.

Sorry, grass is a niche surface.
 
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