Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
He has to do this to keep his job
Ivanisevic: Djokovic gave Nadal a "tennis lesson", claims he's never seen Nadal so "powerless" at RG
- Thread starter TennisFan3
- Start date
He has to do this to keep his job
D
Deleted member 762343
Guest
I always laugh at the Djoke's reaction, and not because Nadal's actions were sportsmanlike, they were atrocious. I laugh because Djokovic is the same and even worse, but at that moment was behaving like a victim. If you are cocky and want to talk, better be prepared about the consequences. Djokovic looked like he wasn't prepared for that.
It's human to be a bit pissed when a ball travelling at high speed hits your face, at least in the heat of the moment. But it's not like he held a grudge afterwards, unlike Berdych when Almagro did the same to him.
SonicNirvana
Hall of Fame
Eh no. NOVAK hasn’t said anything like that about the match.
El_Yotamo
Hall of Fame
I agree, most won't see it that way. Hence why I phrased it the way I did...
Tennis_Hands
Banned
That is the fun part of watching people that use systematically gemesmanship: that they always think they are the smartest for doing it, and don't expect others to do the same to them.
SonicNirvana
Hall of Fame
I mean he could say that about AO 2019 and much of the AO 2012 match
Open Stance
Professional
Goran sure likes to run his mouth, doesn't he?
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Of course, tagging someone with body shots to win the point is a legitimate tactic. However Nadsy wasn't aiming simply for a body shot: he was aiming at the head, and that is nasty and otherwise completely unnecessary. Yes, like I said, if one goes that road (of provocation) he should expect something in return.
Djokodal Fan
Hall of Fame
there are 2 people from Camp Novak who should avoid press
1. Goran Ivanisevic
2. Srdjan Djokovic
Thank you.
1. Goran Ivanisevic
2. Srdjan Djokovic
Thank you.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
Beatings.
D
Deleted member 762343
Guest
Of course, tagging someone with body shots to win the point is a legitimate tactic. However Nadsy wasn't aiming simply for a body shot: he was aiming at the head, and that is nasty and otherwise completely unnecessary. Yes, like I said, if one goes that road (of provocation) he should expect something in return.
We're talking about a simple instinctive reaction in the heat of the moment when you receive a ball in the face here. And you're saying Djokovic has a problem with what Nadal did without any solid evidence.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
"Solid evidence"? I see his reaction, I don't need more solid evidence than this. I envisaged his swearing words from several thousand kilometres.
BTW, I don't know how you got it in your head that I am saying that as a result of that shot Djokovic was holding a grudge. They are professional cheaters, they know that once one of them will cheat the other, and then the other will try to get it back and so on. Nothing personal, just cheating.
D
Deleted member 762343
Guest
Yes, because lashing out on Djokovic for someone else's words is totally a legitimate and mature thing to do.
D
Deleted member 762343
Guest
"Solid evidence"? I see his reaction, I don't need more solid evidence than this. I envisaged his swearing words from several thousand kilometres.
BTW, I don't know how you got it in your head that I am saying that as a result of that shot Djokovic was holding a grudge. They are professional cheaters, they know that once one of them will cheat the other, and then the other will try to get it back and so on. Nothing personal, just cheating.
I said Berdych held a grudge against Almagro, which is what I consider to be a questionable reaction.
Cheating means violating the rules, this has nothing to do with cheating. I know you don't like their MTOs, the fact they take so much time to serve and things like that, but it's a different story that has nothing to do with Nadal's shot here.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
I put under the same umbrella gamesmanship and cheating, since we know that one could be within the rules and could still be cheating. And gamesmanship includes every tactic that is questionable to gain an advantage, which the said (head) shot was.
I am discussing only the scene I commented on: I am not sure why I have to talk about anyone else, and so I don't understand why these other players were put in a post in my direction in the first place.
BTW, since you said that I don't like these things like MTOs stalling and so on: is there anyone who does like them?
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
These dudes make it soooooooo hard to like them, my goodness.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
He probably would anyway, but it doesn't matter, Novak has his 2nd career slam now and icing on the cake he did it against Rafa. His job at RG is finished.
D
Deleted member 762343
Guest
I put under the same umbrella gamesmanship and cheating, since we know that one could be within the rules and could still be cheating. And gamesmanship includes every tactic that is questionable to gain an advantage, which the said (head) shot was.
I am discussing only the scene I commented on: I am not sure why I have to talk about anyone else, and so I don't understand why these other players were put in a post in my direction in the first place.
BTW, since you said that I don't like these things like MTOs stalling and so on: is there anyone who does like them?
I talked about Berdych to emphasize what possible response from Djokovic should be criticized. And his actual response in this situation is not something he should be criticized for in my book.
Of course nobody likes MTOs or time violations but I know you have a particularly strong issue with it. I don't think what Nadal did there is comparable to that, because even though he didn't have to do it, that's still a valid strategy in the course of the match. MTOs, while legal in theory, can be abused with impunity because there's no way to be sure players don't simply lie to rest, disrupt their opponent or pull themselves together. But Nadal's shot against Djokovic is not only legal, the intent behind it is also irrelevant. There's nothing mysterious about it, no unknown element that can change its nature. Even if we or the umpire had a way to be absolutely certain Nadal just wanted to mess with Djokovic's head, it wouldn't change anything. That would still be a 100% valid strategy, not a way of cheating.
Bhagi Katbamna
Legend
I'm sure he knows about lessons on the court as he had a few from Sampras in important matches.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Have you asked yourself why head-shots are frowned upon?
The reason is that there is a certain level of respect for the fellow player. It is cheating, because you are looking to gain a psychological advantage by breaking unwritten rules, and rules for something like that cannot be written, because no one can prove that you couldn't point the ball somewhere else. Just like no one can prove that you are taking a MTO to disrupt your opponent's game.
Players that are virtuosos in that know about these rules and break them at the best moment to ensure maximum effect: it is the lowest sort of gamesmanship, because the rules for that are based on the agreement about the mutual respect.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
A little??Goran goes a little overboard at times, doesn't he?
D
Deleted member 762343
Guest
Have you asked yourself why head-shots are frowned upon?
The reason is that there is a certain level of respect for the fellow player. It is cheating, because you are looking to gain a psychological advantage by breaking unwritten rules, and rules for something like that cannot be written, because no one can prove that you couldn't point the ball somewhere else. Just like no one can prove that you are taking a MTO to disrupt your opponent's game.
Players that are virtuosos in that know about these rules and break them at the best moment to ensure maximum effect: it is the lowest sort of gamesmanship, because the rules for that are based on the agreement about the mutual respect.
Why would being able to prove the ball could have been sent in a different direction result in hitting the opponent being an illegal shot ? It's the difference with an MTO. If the umpire could magically read a player's mind and know for sure he doesn't need an MTO, he could forbid it or even penalize the player for it, because it is actually said MTOs can only be used for physical issues.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
If they were able to regulate that they would: there is a certain level of dignity that is observed, and the rules of the game are partly for that. It is the same reason why you shouldn't jump over the net and go threaten your opponent Connors' style.
I find that remark fascinating: apparently you think that whatever rules are in place at the moment are the only rules that can regulate the reality, and no others could exist in other circumstances.
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
Who knows. Maybe Nadal will never beat Novak in RG. I mean he will be 36.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Here is a link to the full interview interview instead of excerpts. Goran really does like to talk doesn't he, and he is not Novak's camp. He's Djokovic's assistant coach. You have never heard Vadja brag after his victories.
Ivanisevic exclusive interview on Djokovic French Open win
In an exclusive interview with Tennis Majors, Goran Ivanisevic, the coach of Novak Djokovic, shares his thoughts about his Roland-Garros win, on the Serb’s self-belief and mindset, and his chances at Wimbledonwww.tennismajors.com
Marian is a lot more level headed than Goran it would seem. This is why he's such a key part of Djokovic's successes over the years. When he left for a few years, Novak looked kinda lost for a while there. Mr Vajda is one of the best coaches of all time.
D
Deleted member 762343
Guest
If they were able to regulate that they would: there is a certain level of dignity that is observed, and the rules of the game are partly for that. It is the same reason why you shouldn't jump over the net and go threaten your opponent Connors' style.
I find that remark fascinating: apparently you think that whatever rules are in place at the moment are the only rules that can regulate the reality, and no others could exist in other circumstances.
Of course other rules could exist in other circumstances, but my reasoning is based on what the actual rules are. If there was a rule saying body shots are only allowed if there's no other choice and I was personally convinced Nadal could have hit somewhere else but still chose to hit Djokovic, I would consider what he did cheating. But that's not what the rule says.
Now, what I think about it on a moral level is another story.
T
TheNachoMan
Guest
Goran reads these threads knowing RAFA fans get triggered. lol
T
TheNachoMan
Guest
RG 2013 was proof that Nadal is more beatable in the SF stage
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
Well, it's a pretty sensational claim that Goran made. Anyone would be mad, not just Nadal fans.
tennisjedi
Hall of Fame
Goran's trash talking is pretty entertaining.
Last year he said Nadal had no chance of winning and now he says Novak was "not ready".
Good for him that Novak won this year because I don't know what excuse he'd make if Novak lost.
Last year he said Nadal had no chance of winning and now he says Novak was "not ready".
Good for him that Novak won this year because I don't know what excuse he'd make if Novak lost.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
But the actual rules are such, precisely because there cannot be other rules about it. Which is why the players cheat by breaking those unwritten rules. That is the craft of such players: that they, by intuition, or worse, by preparation, use those weaknesses in the regulations, to take advantage of the situation.
That is why I used the MTO analogy: they are still cheating by using it, despite of technically not doing anything illegal.
Is it within the rules to use an MTO: absolutely. Is it cheating when not used for its intended purpose: absolutely.
coupergear
Professional
Trash talk is great for sports. Love it. He's the Larry Bird of tennis. Wish there was more.
coupergear
Professional
Mto are dumb rule. Just give players an alotted # of TOs. Like any other sport. Used to stop momentum, rest etcBut the actual rules are such, precisely because there cannot be other rules about it. Which is why the players cheat by breaking those unwritten rules. That is the craft of such players: that they, by intuition, or worse, by preparation, use those weaknesses in the regulations, to take advantage of the situation.
That is why I used the MTO analogy: they are still cheating by using it, despite of technically not doing anything illegal.
Is it within the rules to use an MTO: absolutely. Is it cheating when not used for its intended purpose: absolutely.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
MTOs are there to protect the players from injuring themselves or exacerbating an existing problem. Unless we want to turn tennis into some game of survival, that is not a good idea.
However, limiting the MTO's to a certain amount (maybe 1 per match and 3 per tournament) should send a clear message to those who abuse them.
BauerAlmeida
Hall of Fame
You desperately trying to overrate the importance of that match will never stop being hilarious. Would be like Federer fans gloating about Wimbledon 2007 after Nadal won Wimbledon 2008.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
This reminds me of something.
"Goran hated the US"
Aren't Srdjan and his crew always whining about how "the West" hates them and isn't being fair to Novak because he's a Serb?
That sh1t sounds more like projection every day.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Lol at Goran implying that he knew Djokovic wasn't ready to play Nadal in last year's final when everyone on here knows how he confidently predicted Novak would win. Who is he trying to kid?
This time he got lucky with his cocky predictions (only aspect of Novak's victory that I wish hadn't come true). Can anybody ever take him seriously???
This time he got lucky with his cocky predictions (only aspect of Novak's victory that I wish hadn't come true). Can anybody ever take him seriously???
Sampras-Bruguera 1993
Legend
Oh calm down Goran. Hes 35 and played alot of clay tennis this year for his age (Probably why his level at RG was "meh" the whole tournament) . Lets see how Nadal looks after a few months off looking for blood at the US Open
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beltsman
G.O.A.T.
It's all projection and manufactured victimhood from Djokovic and his fans.
i like em
Beckerserve
Legend
Wimbledon 2008 was a final bud. But Federer 3-1 Nadal at Wimbledon. The reason W2008 is significant is because 20-20. Should be 21-19 Federer.
RG2020 right now is as big as W2008.
I mean how else is 20-19 explained? Last major final between Nadalovic was FO2020
DRII
G.O.A.T.
Please.Here is a link to the full interview interview instead of excerpts. Goran really does like to talk doesn't he, and he is not Novak's camp. He's Djokovic's assistant coach. You have never heard Vadja brag after his victories.
Ivanisevic exclusive interview on Djokovic French Open win
In an exclusive interview with Tennis Majors, Goran Ivanisevic, the coach of Novak Djokovic, shares his thoughts about his Roland-Garros win, on the Serb’s self-belief and mindset, and his chances at Wimbledon
In 2011 Vadja was parading around the streets of Europe with no shirt on after Djokovic beat Nadal on clay for the first time!
So...
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