I've finally found my forehand

Fintft

Legend
Back to eastern grip big swing forehand. Compact just doesn't feel natural to me.


Not too shabby!

On the FH you might even have some...lag (or flip as you like to call it).
Very minor observations:
- You still look a tad late on the takeback (not as late as with the machine ball though)
- You might be lifting your head too early, hence misshits and lack of power.
- Sometimes you plant your feet too early and as result you are out of ballance at times.
 

golden chicken

Hall of Fame
Your neutral stance forehand is much better than your open stance forehand. I would challenge you to hit all your forehands for one medium paced practice session using neutral stance.
 

Curious

Legend
Your neutral stance forehand is much better than your open stance forehand. I I would challenge you to hit all your forehands for one medium paced practice session using neutral stance.
I’ll try.
It’s not even open stance. It’s a damn weird ‘right foot step in’ stance that only few people on earth do! Jolly spotted it ages ago and I have no idea why it happens.
 

Tmano

Professional
Nice hitting.
I have notice that when you hot the FH your right legs is a bit looked behind you so i does not fallow the movement forward and it actually seems to me it to moves a bit out making you loose some balance.
I'm not an expert but i thought to let you know!
 
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Curious

Legend
I think I’ve really found it this time:)
Seriously guys, can a forehand be more simple and clean than this? Tell me guys.



 

Dragy

Legend
I think I’ve really found it this time:)
Seriously guys, can a forehand be more simple and clean than this? Tell me guys.



Want to see it with live ball. Mostly because what you show is not a full motion - you are expected to start from ready position, not sideways. Also think why you lean so much with your upper torso to hit a ball in your perfect strikezone?

If you don’t visualize full sequence, as if you see incoming ball, adjust with footwork, prepare the stroke and only then execute, too much of such static practice may throw you off.
 

Curious

Legend
Want to see it with live ball. Mostly because what you show is not a full motion - you are expected to start from ready position, not sideways. Also think why you lean so much with your upper torso to hit a ball in your perfect strikezone?

If you don’t visualize full sequence, as if you see incoming ball, adjust with footwork, prepare the stroke and only then execute, too much of such static practice may throw you off.
Yeah sure, to be tested on court.
 

Fintft

Legend
I think you should stick with one thing and grind that for years, maybe make slight adjustments but not completely revamp your stroke every month, I think its hurtful for your game. But then again im a tennis newbie more or less so who knows hahaha.
And let it be ATP :_)
 

AnyPUG

Semi-Pro
I think I’ve really found it this time:)
Seriously guys, can a forehand be more simple and clean than this? Tell me guys.
If you are able to hold the finish like that, your consistency will sky rocket immediately - stick with that finish (except when you are forced to go for a reverse forehand finish) under all circumstances.
In terms of practicing the shadow stroke, start with the ready position, and never miss a split step to get into an athletic wide base before you hit.
 
D

Deleted member 765152

Guest
Even if you go out and play the BEST tennis of your entire life with that FH, something tells me you will tinker with it yet again.
 

Curious

Legend
Who said that I would change my forehand again in a week? Wrong guess! Lasted only 2 days.
Back to SW grip. This seems to be the only comfortable way that I can swing freely and also keep the ball in court.


 

Dragy

Legend
Who said that I would change my forehand again in a week? Wrong guess! Lasted only 2 days.
Back to SW grip. This seems to be the only comfortable way that I can swing freely and also keep the ball in court.


Do you hit strongly with this grip/swing without thinking, or you have to concentrate on swinging freely to actually produce good ball?
 

Fintft

Legend
Who said that I would change my forehand again in a week? Wrong guess! Lasted only 2 days.
Back to SW grip. This seems to be the only comfortable way that I can swing freely and also keep the ball in court.
Do you hit strongly with this grip/swing without thinking, or you have to concentrate on swinging freely to actually produce good ball?
Yes, me too, I'm curious if you are hitting relaxed enough?

For one thing, you might be gripping the racquet too tight (you don't need all fingers firm at the start of the swing) and lastly don't forget to exhale as you start your swing.
 

nyta2

Professional
You really do have a compulsive obsessive disorder with tinkering with your strokes :X3:
don't we all? i still find myself tweaking tiny things... more compact loop, coordinating kinectic chain, head still, consistent follow through, etc...
even at the pro level, folks are still tweaking strokes...
most memorable is gulbis... switching from the condor-fh to a normal-fh
 

Fintft

Legend
don't we all? i still find myself tweaking tiny things... more compact loop, coordinating kinectic chain, head still, consistent follow through, etc...
even at the pro level, folks are still tweaking strokes...
most memorable is gulbis... switching from the condor-fh to a normal-fh
That seems more like fine tunning, or part of the learning process of an ATP FH to me. It happens to me as well, usually at the initiative of the coach.
 

socallefty

Hall of Fame
Your forehand is like a stray cat - you keep finding it and it keeps running away from you. Get a forehand that is like a loyal dog - you want it to stick with you through good and bad times!
 

Curious

Legend
Better shot tolerance, much better serve consistency and placement with lower toss. I love serving with this lower toss and it's because I never really hit flat bombs, my serves are always topslice ( a little more top on the second ), and it's much easier to brush up with a lower contact point.
This weekend I watched videos of Haas and Safin, both great forehands, looks so simple. Perfect examples of semiwestern forehand without any fancy components. I really want to emulate them but I still take the racket too far back independently of the torso and I'm sure it's because my turn is not good enough, so I need to do that to gain more power. If I can make it a little more compact I don't think I'm too far away from getting it right. I also started feeling more confident in hitting topspin backhands.



 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Better shot tolerance, much better serve consistency and placement with lower toss. I love serving with this lower toss and it's because I never really hit flat bombs, my serves are always topslice ( a little more top on the second ), and it's much easier to brush up with a lower contact point.
This weekend I watched videos of Haas and Safin, both great forehands, looks so simple. Perfect examples of semiwestern forehand without any fancy components. I really want to emulate them but I still take the racket too far back independently of the torso and I'm sure it's because my turn is not good enough, so I need to do that to gain more power. If I can make it a little more compact I don't think I'm too far away from getting it right. I also started feeling more confident in hitting topspin backhands.

“I still take the racket too far back independently of the torso”

What does that mean? Hand? RH?

Hand travels with shoulder line ... can’t get hand very far behind shoulder line.

Shoulder/hip separation means shoulders/arm/racquet traveled independent of belly button portion of torso ... not sure if there is shoulder/nipple separation. 8-B

You will never play someone that would require a shorter backswing ... also has nothing to do with being late imo. Pick the one that you enjoy hitting. Happy in rec tennis will be Soderling ... not Federer.8-B

Take a big backswing ... and enjoy hitting the damn ball.:p
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
@Curious ... can't believe you got the old guy with a crap fh to talk about FHs again. :mad:

Buuuut ... I find the Curious fh holy grail quest entertaining ... and a nice change when the entertainment isn't an existential threat.

Based on my ttw years :love: ... the FH a la carte choices covers a lot of territory ... traditional, wta, atp without flip, atp w/little flip, atp w/max flip, arm behind body, arm on hitting side of body, bent arms, straight arms, arms with wrist extension, all kinds of concerns what that extra arm/hand is doing, armless FHs and arming FHs, eastern grips and all the other wrong :p FH grips, unit turns and nipples forward sans turn, hips or not to hip, isr esr irs, yada yada yada.

In short ... the FH rabbit hole is infinite ... but who doesn't like rabbits?

Perhaps a suggestion of two large buckets to narrow your quest:

1) hand position in context of body line
2) pat the dog vs rec tennis court is no place for a dog

Which gets me to the real reason for this post ... found this cool video of Agassi and wanted to post it for any reason ... your FH will do.


So ... Agassi isn't a bad starting point for the two big FH buckets I listed:

1) Agassi hits is FH with his hand pretty far out from his body line. Do you want to hit with hand closer to your body line? Behind ok?

2) Agassi isn't big into patting that dog ... what do we call this ... loop? I see a rec player getting close to Agassi's FH style, and enjoying a lifetime of HITTING a FH. With trying to Fed, flip, pat the dog ... I see a lifetime of poorly timed 30 mph FHs that are not satisfying. 8-B

For example ... when I see your nice yellow shirted friend hit his FH I have the following two thoughts ... in this order:

1) that ptd FH is a smooth as silk
2) now please whisper in his ear ... hit that sucker with your arm muscles for another 20 mph.

Hope this helps. 8-B

Oh ... forgot to summarize:

1) hit with hand "almost" behind you ... but still just in front of body line ... and enjoy years of a full backswing
2) Agassi loop is your friend ... dogs are not man's best friend on a rec tennis court.

OK ... I will be exiting from the back door ... good luck.
 

Curious

Legend
@Curious ... can't believe you got the old guy with a crap fh to talk about FHs again. :mad:

Buuuut ... I find the Curious fh holy grail quest entertaining ... and a nice change when the entertainment isn't an existential threat.

Based on my ttw years :love: ... the FH a la carte choices covers a lot of territory ... traditional, wta, atp without flip, atp w/little flip, atp w/max flip, arm behind body, arm on hitting side of body, bent arms, straight arms, arms with wrist extension, all kinds of concerns what that extra arm/hand is doing, armless FHs and arming FHs, eastern grips and all the other wrong :p FH grips, unit turns and nipples forward sans turn, hips or not to hip, isr esr irs, yada yada yada.

In short ... the FH rabbit hole is infinite ... but who doesn't like rabbits?

Perhaps a suggestion of two large buckets to narrow your quest:

1) hand position in context of body line
2) pat the dog vs rec tennis court is no place for a dog

Which gets me to the real reason for this post ... found this cool video of Agassi and wanted to post it for any reason ... your FH will do.


So ... Agassi isn't a bad starting point for the two big FH buckets I listed:

1) Agassi hits is FH with his hand pretty far out from his body line. Do you want to hit with hand closer to your body line? Behind ok?

2) Agassi isn't big into patting that dog ... what do we call this ... loop? I see a rec player getting close to Agassi's FH style, and enjoying a lifetime of HITTING a FH. With trying to Fed, flip, pat the dog ... I see a lifetime of poorly timed 30 mph FHs that are not satisfying. 8-B

For example ... when I see your nice yellow shirted friend hit his FH I have the following two thoughts ... in this order:

1) that ptd FH is a smooth as silk
2) now please whisper in his ear ... hit that sucker with your arm muscles for another 20 mph.

Hope this helps. 8-B

Oh ... forgot to summarize:

1) hit with hand "almost" behind you ... but still just in front of body line ... and enjoy years of a full backswing
2) Agassi loop is your friend ... dogs are not man's best friend on a rec tennis court.

OK ... I will be exiting from the back door ... good luck.
Thanks.
Agassi fh is great. I want a sw grip and pronated take back version of that. Elbow away from torso, racket on hitting side. So comes my new obsession: Safin forehand. Am I asking too much?:D

Something like this.

 
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ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Thanks.
Agassi fh is great. I want a sw grip and pronated take back version of that. Elbow away from torso, racket on hitting side. So comes my new obsession: Safin forehand. Am I asking too much?:D

Something like this.

Your new tennis studio is very nice. (y)

Tell me the main differences between Agassi FH and Safin's ... look similar to me.






 

Curious

Legend
Your new tennis studio is very nice. (y)

Tell me the main differences between Agassi FH and Safin's ... look similar to me.






Pronated (Safin) vs supinated/neutral (Agassi) forearm during take back.
Not as extreme as some others like Kyle Edmund but hitting side of Safin’s racket face points towards back fence. That’s pronated take back.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Pronated (Safin) vs supinated/neutral (Agassi) forearm during take back.
Not as extreme as some others like Kyle Edmund but hitting side of Safin’s racket face points towards back fence. That’s pronated take back.
What does that gain you?
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Closes the racket face during forward swing. Otherwise it has a tendency to open to the sky halfway in forward swing. ( if my forearm is neutral or supinated at the beginning of the swing)
Interesting ... you would think the destination would be static regardless of the route. 8-B
 

Curious

Legend
Closes the racket face during forward swing. Otherwise it has a tendency to open to the sky halfway in forward swing. ( if my forearm is neutral or supinated at the beginning of the swing)
Pat Dougherty’s most recent video here, couldn’t be more timely. He doesn’t mention any pronation or supination but pronated forearm is exactly what you need to achieve what he says: racket face down when loaded ready for forward swing. Btw almost every WTA player has a supinated forearm at that point.


 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
I passed it on to him this morning . This is what he said:

“I'm very happy with my forehand pace now.
Using arm muscles is a flight ticket to injury land I think”
He is young and indestructible. He will change his mind when his white shirt friend starts crushing his FH.

Then again ... I have said pace and spin are overrated in rec tennis ... conflict in my own posts. 8-B
 
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user92626

G.O.A.T.
Thanks.
Agassi fh is great. I want a sw grip and pronated take back version of that. Elbow away from torso, racket on hitting side. So comes my new obsession: Safin forehand. Am I asking too much?:D

Something like this.

Both that green ball and your FH are not going anywhere, man.

You gotta do things at the tennis court with stuff moving.


Or maybe this will be good for Wii tennis. I dunno.
 

Curious

Legend
Both that green ball and your FH are not going anywhere, man.

You gotta do things at the tennis court with stuff moving.


Or maybe this will be good for Wii tennis. I dunno.
I’m desperately hoping to build some muscle memory although what you’re saying is always somewhere at the back of my mind.
 

Dragy

Legend
Pat Dougherty’s most recent video here, couldn’t be more timely. He doesn’t mention any pronation or supination but pronated forearm is exactly what you need to achieve what he says: racket face down when loaded ready for forward swing. Btw almost every WTA player has a supinated forearm at that point.


Well this vid is kind of not complicated or detailed, isn’t it? He literally puts up couple of points:
- You need spin, bigger better.
- Produce spin by speeding up your racquet head - loading and brushing, keeping loose wrist; don’t alter your hand path, let it still go through to produce power.
- Practice spin drives a lot.

I like a cue for pointing tip of the racquet towards the side fence more than strings down. Strings may look down (Fed) or back (Nole) depending on the grip. As long as racquet tip goes from pointing up (or up and forward, why not) at the beginning of the takeback to then drops to point to the side rather than back, it secures good drop and transition to slot.
 

Curious

Legend
I like a cue for pointing tip of the racquet towards the side fence more than strings down.
Yeah, racket tip to the side fence but I’m much more interested in where the racket face is pointing as the forward swing starts.
 

Dragy

Legend
Yeah, racket tip to the side fence but I’m much more interested in where the racket face is pointing as the forward swing starts.
Won't it be mostly function of forearm orientation and grip? They are not in exactly same positions, but geometry is observable, I think.

 

Curious

Legend
Won't it be mostly function of forearm orientation and grip? They are not in exactly same positions, but geometry is observable, I think.

Yes, supination/pronation determines that orientation. And yes, grip is a factor also.
 

Dragy

Legend
Yes, supination/pronation determines that orientation.
I was talking about forearm orientation vs horizon, not supination/pronation. Actually, having anything but supinated forearm at butt-cup-forward pulling stage seems improper.
 

Dragy

Legend
I don't know actually, look at Rafa here. His forearm is around neutral, and then gets into supination as he pulls into his swing. I would actually call it "doing nothing" with his forearm.


 

Curious

Legend
I don't know actually, look at Rafa here. His forearm is around neutral, and then gets into supination as he pulls into his swing.
Neutral is ok, supinated is not. I know it supinates when the forward swing starts but when it’s already supinated at the beginning, it supinates even further with the forward swing, which is too much supination and opens the racket face too much.
 

Curious

Legend
I apologise in advance to everyone who’s sick of my technique obsession. But those who don’t mind giving me feedback, please tell me why the hell my racket goes behind my hand and I get zero flip of the racket? It’s ridiculous but in my mind I was trying to copy Wawrinka forehand here, I’m not that delusional so I knew it wasn’t happening while I was hitting those shots but watching the video later I just can’t understand why I can’t keep the bloody racket on the hitting side and get the flip by swinging from there.


 
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