Ivy League Tennis

Aren't the Columbia courts in an indoor permanent bubble?

Can someone chirp in here who plays for Columbia.

The profs at Columbia do not excuse student-athletes from class, even for duals. Many of the players practice on the Riverside Pk Courts on 120th, or if worse comes to worse, on their rec ctr courts on the roof, which are not great. This saves them from the long van ride to Baker's Field, which is an indoor carpet facility.
 

subban

Rookie
Yes, I am 100% sure Stanford comprises for their tennis players because I know players on the team and they have very good grades but their grades wouldn't normally be good enough to get into stanford without their athletics.

Yes, I remember an interview Michael Kaye did with John Mcenroe on the show centerstage and he talked about how when he got to Stanford that his guidance counselor there thank god suggested easy courses to take there instead of taking too difficult courses for him like Calculus 101. Somehow, I think a real academically qualified Stanford student wouldn't think Calc 101 is very difficult to get through.
 
Yes, I remember an interview Michael Kaye did with John Mcenroe on the show centerstage and he talked about how when he got to Stanford that his guidance counselor there thank god suggested easy courses to take there instead of taking too difficult courses for him like Calculus 101. Somehow, I think a real academically qualified Stanford student wouldn't think Calc 101 is very difficult to get through.

Don't forget that Mac was educated at Trinity, so his math background was already beyond Calc 101.
 
Ya, it doesn't rain that much in Seattle either. Live in your dreamland dude, I suppose it passes the time when the weather sucks.

Strong players flee to where they can play all the time - outdoors - where it is meant to be played. Can you blame them?

Every bodega here in the City sells Kleenex for whiny tourists....LOL!
 
Yes, I remember an interview Michael Kaye did with John Mcenroe on the show centerstage and he talked about how when he got to Stanford that his guidance counselor there thank god suggested easy courses to take there instead of taking too difficult courses for him like Calculus 101. Somehow, I think a real academically qualified Stanford student wouldn't think Calc 101 is very difficult to get through.

John McEnroe was a once in a lifetime STUD...there was virtually NO DOUBT that he was going to be one of the greats. Same with Tiger Woods. When you get a chance to nab athletes of a caliber of this...it is a no-brainer. The reality is of the so-called, "top" students in the US, the vast majority of them are from affluence...or at the very least have a sensible place to study, not like say, a public park...walking 44 minutes all the way to get there in time to study if you know what I mean.

To play tennis, you need guess what? Money, time, money...time, money...time...MONEY. That's the bottom-line. The VAST majority of "serious" tennis players are upper middle-class at the very least. It's what's required. They also generally have smarter than average parents...lawyers, doctors, engineers, chairmans of the board, etc., etc.

Do you really think John McEnroe, he of insanely quick wit, and acerbic tongue, and prominent lawyer father...was not "smart enough" to hack it at a place like Stanford? I don't buy that. The only REAL difference between a top-tier student, and the VERY top tier students...say, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, what have you is simple. 9 times out of 10 it's I have a better work ethic than you...but NOT that I am actually "smarter" than you. And the dfiference between a top of the food chain so-so school student, and a top-tier student (say the Brown leaves of the world), is? Yup, money...moolah, otherwise known as "class."

Meaning, the *environment* and *opportunities* to succeed were not quite the same. Many do not get this, but if you're getting evicted every few fricking months...it kind of makes it harder to concentrate on the "finer," more "important" things in life...like academics.

You know what the problem with most politicians is? They look at the masses like chips on a game board to play with. Of actually, walking in the mud themselves, instead of just talking the talk themselves (a product of years of blah-blah-blah, "debate" training at their pansy-azz "prep" schools)...they know *nothing*. And while they say otherwise, they have no TRUE desire to actually KNOW and FEEL what it is, to live how the "other half" lives.

He may be despicable, but Osama's appeal to his followers that here was a rich man who did not need to get his hands dirty...but did.

Comebine Osama with good morals, a conscience, and now you got something...because the truth is, the reality is, money, pedigree, and connections are without a great deal of luck AND perserverance..."necessary" to maneuver yourself into a position of "power," of *influence." But, how many at the snooty-prep schools are like that? Most of them know one world, one track, and they stay on that track...until their children pick up the baton, and continue on that same track. Looking outside the box of your burbs is not engrained into the American conscience. Neither for the rich, nor the poor. And this is why the poor, gladly beat on the rich preppies, when the opportunity presents itself...and not think twice about it. And, conversely, why the rich preppies never stop to *linger* in the shoes of the unfortunate. It's not that they don't hold within themselves the potential, capacity, and determination to "care;" but rather, when you're life is one continuous string of forward-moving momentum...it's hard to become *aware* enough to put the brakes on. When you've got money, pedigree, influence, and haven't been severely rocked by life one too many times to get up for the count anymore...let's just say, the point where the will to exist has been irreparably broken...there's no time to stop. There is ALWAYS something newer and more exciting to *achieve*...be it a promotion, a "master" of whatever else degree to tack on at the end of your name, a vacation mansion to add to your regular mansion, and so on and so forth. Life becomes one big chase, and when you've got momentum...you've got momentum, and there is no real apparent reason to stop...not unless, until, the pebbles start flying upstream from behind...ouch, darn, angry villagers...why don't they just have a "clear head" like me, think, study, and edumacate themselves and stop complaining? They must be lazy, not scarred. And this is what escapes those in the penthouse suites...the capacity to be scarred by life, seared by it, until the rage bubbles up and boils over...time to EXPLODE! Fists raining in on the poor unfortunate spoiled soul who gets in their way, in the right place, at the right time.

John McEnroe has a capacity to bs just like the rest of them, lawyers, and some suches, study, study, study...the vast majority are capable of achieving academic success. It boils down to opportunity, and having a "clear" enough head to do it.

On average, it is for this reason alone, that most high-class players are also from higher-than-average class families. A good education is engrained, the "genes" AND expectations are certainly in place, they're capable of holding their own academically...they're in the ballpark at the very least, unlike say a baller from the streets, who perhaps was not afforded the same opportunies to study AND train. Indeed, for most high class tennis players, the biggest obstacle is in balancing their desire to party-hardy (hey, it's college), train, AND study. Some "types" are better at organizing their lives than others, others more naturally gifted athletically than others, others more logically gifted, others more artsy-fartsy, and so on and so forth. But all, in all, if you're a college admissions officer, you shouldn't EVER pass up on the chance of a once in a lifetime. Study-hardy students from "good" families, are a DIME-A-DOZEN...but say a Rockefeller, who can build bangin' new facilities for you, or an all-time great caliber athlete, or famous child actor/actress or whatever, you do NOT pass up on.

Colleges are a business at the end of the day. Should a "big name" come their way, like a SURE THING big, FAMOUS, name, either one day or now...they should *snatch* him her/up no matter what. Tutors are a dime-a-dozen, the LEGACY that a "big name" leaves on an institution is BIG business for them. A college's "legacy," their pocket books, are based not on a slew of "professional" whatevers. They're built on the BIG NAMES...the Monica Seles' and Andre Agassi's of the world that don't come along everyday. And that's why Nick Bolletieri was willing to bend every rule in the book for Agassi, when he otherwise should have been kicked out for disciplinary/academic reasons almost from the get-go...he says he should have done something looking back, but we all know he doesn't *really* feel that way. He saw his one of a kind, charisma-cha-ching, meal ticket in Agassi from a very early age...dad's a waiter? No problemo, we can make exceptions for the CHANCE at greatness. The chance at achieviecing true "greatness" is very, very...VERY rare. If someone's even somewhat unique enough to possibly have a chance, that is a chance you HAVE TO take. You MUST take that chance. Agassi was a crummy student, and like many ESTPs not too interested in school growing up...too impulsive, rebelious, etc. But Nick's investment in him, has ultimately paved the way for a PLETHORA of students who are NOT once-in-a-generation gifted like him, to have a chance to succeed the only other "sure" way there is...academically. So, in retrospect, Nick, no, you really shouldn't have held Agassi to the firm letter of the land. His most relevant, useful, "education," was in "greatness," not relative...I won't say, mediocrity; but rather, *obscurity*. The amount of people who've passed through the "name" schools is too long to list, the list of names on the buildings in those universities? Far, far, less. Potential *legacy* first, and all the rest second. That is the logic in college la la land.


at the very least a middle-class background...and if they do have a middle-class background and still want to p
 

tennisnoob3

Professional
china called, they want their wall back.

you seem to be misinformed, most tennis players,at least when they talk about it on tv, do not come from upper middle class families, most of their parents were either teachers, tennis instructors, etc and both parents HAD to work.
 

tennis5

Professional
china called, they want their wall back.

you seem to be misinformed, most tennis players,at least when they talk about it on tv, do not come from upper middle class families, most of their parents were either teachers, tennis instructors, etc and both parents HAD to work.

Pretty sure Johnny Mac was from a wealthy family...

Ok, not all tennis kids are not from wealthy families.

I know a lot of tennis parents who are struggling in this economy as their jobs have been outsourced or they have been laid off.

However, the end result is their kids are not playing as much tournament tennis, as the USTA is only supporting a few kids.

It is a shame.
 
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subban

Rookie
Do you really think John McEnroe, he of insanely quick wit, and acerbic tongue, and prominent lawyer father...was not "smart enough" to hack it at a place like Stanford? I don't buy that.

No, I am not saying Mcenroe is not dumb. He does have a lot of street smarts but that is'nt the same as having book smarts. If Mcenroe was'nt a good tennis player, I doubt he would have been admitted into Stanford.
 

tennis5

Professional
Do you really think John McEnroe, he of insanely quick wit, and acerbic tongue, and prominent lawyer father...was not "smart enough" to hack it at a place like Stanford? I don't buy that.

No, I am not saying Mcenroe is not dumb. He does have a lot of street smarts but that is'nt the same as having book smarts. If Mcenroe was'nt a good tennis player, I doubt he would have been admitted into Stanford.

Agreed. He says in his book, You Cannot be Serious, that when he got to Trinity,

"Trinity was where I discovered mediocrity, at least academically."

Bottom line, he went to an excellent private school and was a great tennis player.... and the great tennis was enough for Stanford.

Today, he would still get into Stanford, but not the Ivys.
 
Agreed. He says in his book, You Cannot be Serious, that when he got to Trinity,

"Trinity was where I discovered mediocrity, at least academically."

Bottom line, he went to an excellent private school and was a great tennis player.... and the great tennis was enough for Stanford.

Today, he would still get into Stanford, but not the Ivys.

Trinity sends 50% of their class to Ivies. I bet as long as he passed at Trinity an Ivy could still get him in.
 
you still have to fit into the schools' academic "scene"...as far as getting in. from friends that coached in the Ivy's...it could be frustrating to want kids and not get them. many of us could pull in kids because we wanted them bad despite their real academic quality...not there of course...even if a "talented student". numbers are numbers. the other thing...if you can get in at an Ivy (most of the time)...then $ will not be an issue. from a friend that coached at Dartmouth...if $ ever became an issue once there...the school would always find the $ to keep you as a student. I'm not saying that in a bad way (legality wise)...
 

PennAlum

Rookie
The profs at Columbia do not excuse student-athletes from class, even for duals. Many of the players practice on the Riverside Pk Courts on 120th, or if worse comes to worse, on their rec ctr courts on the roof, which are not great. This saves them from the long van ride to Baker's Field, which is an indoor carpet facility.

The team practices in an indoor permanent bubble which is a hardcourt. They have to take a van from 116th St. to 218th St. to make practice. The locker rooms there look like circa 1950's YMCA. They have had plans for a nicer facility but it has yet to be funded.
 
Went to the USTA College Invitational last weekend. Columbia looking pretty good with 3 strong freshman recruits (Winston Lin, Vancura, Narayana) who look to be in the starting line up. After a fall off last year after losing their #1 and #2 players they will contend. Penn looks strong as Brazdil and Wong returns to the team under new coach, Geatz. Yes they lose their #1 Laleej but this year's team has leadership and camaraderie which was absent under the previous coach DeVore. Geatz will have to rebuild the psyche of the sullen team players who forgot how to win after finishing in the cellar four straight years under DeVore. They needed a good coach to lead them into their new 12 tennis courts in Penn Park.
 
The team practices in an indoor permanent bubble which is a hardcourt. They have to take a van from 116th St. to 218th St. to make practice. The locker rooms there look like circa 1950's YMCA. They have had plans for a nicer facility but it has yet to be funded.

Official team practices are at Baker Field, but many skip practice for academic reasons and hit the park or the roof of the rec center if they have to. The profs there really do not cut the student-athetes a break for represented the college. And they fixed the indoor facility pretty nicely--I am there frequently.
 

PennAlum

Rookie
Official team practices are at Baker Field, but many skip practice for academic reasons and hit the park or the roof of the rec center if they have to. The profs there really do not cut the student-athetes a break for represented the college. And they fixed the indoor facility pretty nicely--I am there frequently.

Going there this weekend for the Columbia Invitational. If you are there frequently why would you think that the courts are indoor carpeted? Just asking as they are hardcourts.
 
Going there this weekend for the Columbia Invitational. If you are there frequently why would you think that the courts are indoor carpeted? Just asking as they are hardcourts.

Good luck in ur matches. The courts are not a true hardcourt; press on them or bounce your stick off the surface. There are dead spots. They were made specifically with the old people--Columbia affiliates--in mind...a compromise between hard for the team and clay for the rest of the Columbia population. The courts are booked solid, and the two teams use it for only 2-3 hrs per day. It's run like a real club. Even the students pay almost full price per hour. An ex-player, now runs their junior program, and outside pros can't teach there anymore, although, the tennis director makes some small exceptions for some of us.
 

BigEastStorm

New User
Columbia Invitational:

Mldaneov/Lampa and Hauk/Kallen make it two Redstorm teams in the doubles A bracket final

Hauk and Lampa play finals in Flight and B respectively
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
Northeast Regional quarterfinalists:

2 St. John's
2 Cornell
1 each Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth, and Penn
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
I think weather is a bigger issue than most people are giving credit for...

Ivy's are in a cold, snowy winter climate with indoor tennis..

It is just a huge turnoff for someone from the West or the South.

Very true. The weather is a huge factor in deciding what school to attend for many tennis players. Also, to follow up on prior postings, there are unique packages and special exceptions to everything "standard" in tennis offers (even at the Ivy's) depending on the player and how bad they want him/her. Rare, but it would be naive to think they follow standard protocol for everybody. They don't. The rules are frequently different for a lot of blue chips, afterall, there are only 25 of them in the U.S. There are only 10 top 10, and many schools competing for them. Standard operating procedures do not apply to them, even at Ivy land.

Please....it's not that cold in Philly or NYC--which is the #1 destination for college applicants.

Wow, that is just wrong. There are many kids (tennis and not) that would never consider the cold northeast, it is just a fact. And another fact, 8 of the top 10 schools for most college applicants were in California. That is U.S. World and News Report stat, not a guess. In the top 20 D1 tennis schools, none are in the northeast for a reason, the best tennis players don't want to go there and play indoors. There are great things about that part of the country, but tennis is an outdoor sport. It is a huge consideration for tennis players.

The DI season ends in the beginning of Nov, so your playing outdoors all fall. The semester starts the last week in Jan, so you play indoors for 5 weeks, unless the weather is inclement, and if that happens in CA, you just don't play; you cannot go indoors. All high schools and colleges go outdoors in the NYC Metro area on March 1st.

I was reminded of this scintillating discussion today when reading the lead article at TennisRecruiting.net:

Alex Van Cott and his brother are headed to Tulane.

Twins Alexander and Ian Van Cott began their search for a college tennis home with a simple stipulation: They were going someplace warm and sunny.

It was nothing against the bucolic charms of their native upstate New York, with its wooded hills, rushing brooks and rustic dairy farms. They simply wanted a break from the dreary winters, and the long months of indoor tennis under artificial light.

The 5-star recruits from Unadilla, New York, recently took a major step toward their shared goal of playing college tennis on warm, sun-splashed days by verbally committing to attend Tulane University in New Orleans, Louisiana.
 
you still have to fit into the schools' academic "scene"...as far as getting in. from friends that coached in the Ivy's...it could be frustrating to want kids and not get them. many of us could pull in kids because we wanted them bad despite their real academic quality...not there of course...even if a "talented student". numbers are numbers. the other thing...if you can get in at an Ivy (most of the time)...then $ will not be an issue. from a friend that coached at Dartmouth...if $ ever became an issue once there...the school would always find the $ to keep you as a student. I'm not saying that in a bad way (legality wise)...

This may have been the case before but it isn't that way now.

We know of at least one player that was recruited last year that had a 3.7 gpa and scored a 29 on his ACT. Without tennis he was told he would have never had a chance. He did say that when it comes to work in the class that they could care less that he is a tennis player, everybody is equal.
 

matchplay

Rookie
Ya, a lot of schools don't make it easy like people think they do on athletes. My player's prof gave quizzes every Friday and if you missed them for any reason it was a big fat zero. He missed 4 or 5 Friday's over a two month period for tournaments. You can imagine how that grade and class went.

These kids that manage college tennis and academics should be revered for all they do, and not trashed when they have a bad match - it is tough. Preparing for a chem midterm and a tennis battle within a day of each other - ain't for the weak.

you said it all, so true.
 
I was reminded of this scintillating discussion today when reading the lead article at TennisRecruiting.net:

Seriously...you pick these guys as an example? If you grew-up in the Catskills, you'd want out in the winter too if you weren't into winter sports. They're up near Bing....how they even found coaches and practice partners must have been real difficult. Do you know when and what kind of snow they get up there?
 
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