J. Henin - One of the Greatests in the Making

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bustigal

Guest
Simply amazing! Justin Henin played 9 sets and won all three matches in the German open yesterday and today (less than perhaps 30 hours). Although her opponents were not big name players, great players win this kind of matches. You got to appreciate the will and the fighting spirit she possesses, especially after she just won two tourneys immediately before these. Enjoy it while you can. I think we are witnessing one of the all time greats in the making.

She has it all: the modern all-court attacking game, the nerve, the desire, the hard work, the never say-die spirit, and, yes, that gorgeous one-handed backhand. She took down Serena two years ago when Serena was at her peak. Her style is very similar to Federer’s, but pond for pond (and inch for inch), she is the best pro tennis player today.

The little girl stands the tallest among the giants.
 

framer

New User
Henin has a beautiful game indeed but given her poor sportsmanship several years ago at the French Open - the Serena Williams match, I have lost my respect for her - what she did was classless and shows that she really is a 'small' person - she doesn't stand tall. Her win over Serena was tainted. Up until then I was a big fan, but since that match, I am no longer a fan.
 
framer said:
Henin has a beautiful game indeed but given her poor sportsmanship several years ago at the French Open - the Serena Williams match, I have lost my respect for her - what she did was classless and shows that she really is a 'small' person - she doesn't stand tall. Her win over Serena was tainted. Up until then I was a big fan, but since that match, I am no longer a fan.
poor sportsmanship? far as i know, justine played within the rules. i think its classless for serena and her fans to make excuses because she lost.
 

framer

New User
wildbill88AA said:
poor sportsmanship? far as i know, justine played within the rules. i think its classless for serena and her fans to make excuses because she lost.

You are missing the point. One can play by the rules and still not be a sportsman. Justine didn't meet either standard - the judge asked Justine if she held up her hand to pause the game as Serena was serving - clearly Justine did and she denied it. It's not like the judge asked Henin if she thought a ball was in or out, the judge asked her "did you raise your hand to stop play while Serena was serving?" -- Since when is lying to the judge playing within the rules?

Btw, I am no fan of Serena either.
 
the chairperson made a ruling. justine abidded by it. maybe serena should have allowed justine to get ready before serving. and to say justine won and you have no respect for her because of that one incident is silly.

and had it been anyone other that serena, they'd have simply played the point and not complained.
 

framer

New User
wildbill88AA said:
the chairperson made a ruling. justine abidded by it. maybe serena should have allowed justine to get ready before serving. and to say justine won and you have no respect for her because of that one incident is silly.
You are a revisionist - The chairperson made the ruling based on Henin's response - which was deceitful. Additionally I didn't say Henin won because of that one incident - what I said is that I am no longer a Henin fan since that match because of her sportsmanship. I fail to see why that is silly.
 

Chloe

Rookie
I love Justine. But yes, it probably would have been more polite of her to say "yo, I had my hand up. My bad!" I expect a formal apology from her, along with an apology from every player who has ever done anything that was not 100% sporting in spirit (protested a good call, failed to overrule a bad call, etc.). I'd also like to see all these players give back those wins, because they didn't really count.
 
Justine has a beautiful game to watch. But one of the all-time greats?? Too injury prone I think. And, too many hungry, young Russians.
 

aj_m2009

Professional
framer said:
Henin has a beautiful game indeed but given her poor sportsmanship several years ago at the French Open - the Serena Williams match, I have lost my respect for her - what she did was classless and shows that she really is a 'small' person - she doesn't stand tall. Her win over Serena was tainted. Up until then I was a big fan, but since that match, I am no longer a fan.
You failed to mention the countless times she has faked injuries in matches, like against Davenport at AO in '03.
 

Chloe

Rookie
Or the time against Jenn at the USO. She was such a good faker that she actually convinced the medics she needed IV fluids until 2am! She's incredible.
 

aj_m2009

Professional
Chloe said:
Or the time against Jenn at the USO. She was such a good faker that she actually convinced the medics she needed IV fluids until 2am! She's incredible.
She was, up until she had to get back on court, then she acted like nothing ever happened. She would make a great actress.
 

Camilio Pascual

Hall of Fame
wildbill88AA said:
...and had it been anyone other that serena, they'd have simply played the point and not complained.
Bulloney! Anybody who saw the receiver's hand go up during their service motion and complete the service motion to avoid pulled muscle/rib problem would be VERY likely to complain. What you are saying is a ridiculous and unsupportable fantasy. At least keep it real.
I assign the responsibility thusly:
1. An incompetent and passive chair.
2. Serena for not complaining effectively and asking for help or clarification from the linespersons or challenging Henin's lying.
3. Henin for lying, cheating behaviour only if she is an amateur, just greasy behaviour since she is a pro.
 

Brettolius

Professional
yeah, if serena tried to stop in the middle of her service motion, she may have risked "rib malfunction" which we know she is prone to.
 

The tennis guy

Hall of Fame
aj_m2009 said:
She was, up until she had to get back on court, then she acted like nothing ever happened. She would make a great actress.
Pathetic post, I have to say. I can understand people who raised the question regarding Serena match. Other than that, pure sore losers!
 

driger

Banned
Camilio Pascual said:
Bulloney! Anybody who saw the receiver's hand go up during their service motion and complete the service motion to avoid pulled muscle/rib problem would be VERY likely to complain. What you are saying is a ridiculous and unsupportable fantasy. At least keep it real.
I assign the responsibility thusly:
1. An incompetent and passive chair.
2. Serena for not complaining effectively and asking for help or clarification from the linespersons or challenging Henin's lying.
3. Henin for lying, cheating behaviour only if she is an amateur, just greasy behaviour since she is a pro.
You know i've never heard of another player making a similiar complaint, especially the server. Have you? Complete the service motion to avoid pulling a muscle? Now I think I've heard it all.LOL
 

aj_m2009

Professional
The tennis guy said:
Pathetic post, I have to say. I can understand people who raised the question regarding Serena match. Other than that, pure sore losers!
And exactly why was it pathetic, because you know it's true?
 
B

bustigal

Guest
The JH-Serena thing in the 03 French was a controversial call at the most. If Serena was a great champion, why did she let one point bother her? Serena was just a bad loser. That’s obvious because she built up such a ridiculous expectation going in with the “Serena Slam” goal and got slammed by little JH twice in a roll (the 03 Family Circle Cup and the 03 FO). It got to hurt.

What do you think about the wrestling outfit with leather boot and shiny metal Serena wore on court? It was totally inappropriate apparel for tennis and was outright no respect for her opponents. You think that was good sportsmanship.

Comparing to all John Mac’s outbreaks and Connors erasing the ball mark on clay court to prevent the ump to reverse the call, the JH-Serena thing was a non-incident. Put all that aside, we still called J. Mac and Connors two of the tennis greats.
 

aj_m2009

Professional
bustigal said:
The JH-Serena thing in the 03 French was a controversial call at the most. If Serena was a great champion, why did she let one point bother her? Serena was just a bad loser. That’s obvious because she built up such a ridiculous expectation going in with the “Serena Slam” goal and got slammed by little JH twice in a roll (the 03 Family Circle Cup and the 03 FO). It got to hurt.
The FCC one was a bit of a "slam" but how was a 3 set match a "slam"?

What do you think about the wrestling outfit with leather boot and shiny metal Serena wore on court? It was totally inappropriate apparel for tennis and was outright no respect for her opponents. You think that was good sportsmanship...
What wrestling outfit? And how is wearing a certain outfit bad sportsmanship?
 

Camilio Pascual

Hall of Fame
driger said:
You know i've never heard of another player making a similiar complaint, especially the server. Have you? Complete the service motion to avoid pulling a muscle? Now I think I've heard it all.LOL
Yes, I have.
Glad to help you, make sure to complete your service motion, especially if you try hard and have a powerful motion.
Ignorance is excusable, so I excuse your sarcasm. I learned this from 2 sources: as a baseball pitcher and from tennis coaches. I've seen 3 or 4 pitchers hurt themselves from not following through with their motions.
I'd be interested to see if any pro coaches here would like to advise in writing NOT to go through with a service motion, but to try to stop it or hold it up after starting.
 

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
I've stated before, the "Cheater" label is deserved if you cheat ONE TIME. Justine cheated -- plain and simple -- with her Hand/No Hand act.

[And the Umpire never asked Henin if she held up her hand. The Ump merely looked at her. As Matt posts (#20) Henin ducked the opportunity to be honest. She cheated.

I heard Carillo (I think?) report that Serena confronted Justine in the locker room after the match, demanding to know why Justine didn't admit to holding up her hand. Justine's reported response was, "The Umpire didn't ask me."]

Justine is a cheater. Henin no longer has my respect.

- KK
 

Phil

Hall of Fame
Camilio Pascual said:
Bulloney! Anybody who saw the receiver's hand go up during their service motion and complete the service motion to avoid pulled muscle/rib problem would be VERY likely to complain. What you are saying is a ridiculous and unsupportable fantasy. At least keep it real.
I assign the responsibility thusly:
1. An incompetent and passive chair.
2. Serena for not complaining effectively and asking for help or clarification from the linespersons or challenging Henin's lying.
3. Henin for lying, cheating behaviour only if she is an amateur, just greasy behaviour since she is a pro.
Camilio - I don't care much for Henin myself, but damn, this was a single match played almost two years ago and you're still sore over it (you've mentioned "The Incident" in a number of posts). Methinks, as just a suggestion, that it's time to move on.

Yeah, I know, her true, "greasy" character came through in that match, but Serena blew it also-she let it get to her, and a pro with her head on straight would never let that happen, or might even turn it to their advantage (Think Evert, Graff or Navritilova...). It was an excuse to lose-a loss of nerve, and Henin obviously made the right gambit in that respect. Greasy? Slimy? Of course, but it's history now. It's not like HH cheats each time she steps on the court. Not really a lot of opportunity to do so, as these things are umpired. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it-I think Serena got over it much quicker than you have;-)
 

Camilio Pascual

Hall of Fame
Appreciate the message Phil, I see her as a greaser, too.
Agreed, Serena did let it get to her and didn't think clearly or handle it well. I enjoy "defending" (she is not a CHEAT, she is just a GREASER!) Henin. I'm more over it than you think, but the abuse potential is just too easy to pass up. I'm sure you understand!
 

Marius_Hancu

Talk Tennis Guru
To my mind, she's the greatest technical player since Graf.

Of course, she needs more Slams to reach Serena's record, but she's already made a strong impression in terms of contribution to the game, at least on me.
 

driger

Banned
justine a "greaser"? i thought she was belgian. thanks for your clarification on the incident karl. by that standard, i guess everyones a cheater.
 

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
driger said:
thanks for your clarification on the incident karl. by that standard, i guess everyones a cheater.
Your standards are too low. I know many many people who have never cheated in ANY sport. Don't you?

- KK
 

The tennis guy

Hall of Fame
aj_m2009 said:
And exactly why was it pathetic, because you know it's true?
I know people who lost but tried to find excuses are sore losers. Anyone who has brain knew she was cramping during Capriati match at US Open. She didn't call injury timeout due to sore losers complained before. To the testment of her greatness, she still won despite of the injury. Only sore losers or someone who doesn't have brain couldn't comprehend great effort from that match.
 

nn

Hall of Fame
I don't think she is greatest or great.. wait and watch if she can keep her body on court..
 

The tennis guy

Hall of Fame
nn said:
I don't think she is greatest or great.. wait and watch if she can keep her body on court..
Saying she is one the greatest is an exxageration, but one in the making is a predication we have to wait and see. For the time on-court, she is incredible. She didn't play much before Olympics, won the gold; didn't play for another 6 months, came back lost only one match in 4 tournaments. This is something extremely difficult to do!
 

aj_m2009

Professional
The tennis guy said:
I know people who lost but tried to find excuses are sore losers. Anyone who has brain knew she was cramping during Capriati match at US Open. She didn't call injury timeout due to sore losers complained before. To the testment of her greatness, she still won despite of the injury. Only sore losers or someone who doesn't have brain couldn't comprehend great effort from that match.
I wasn't talking about that match, I never even saw that match. Now I was talking about the match against Davenport at AO. If you actually watched that match you could tell she obviously faked it. You don't fall over from cramps, get rubbed for about 5 minutes, and then be absolutely fine, it just doesn't happen.
 
framer said:
Henin has a beautiful game indeed but given her poor sportsmanship several years ago at the French Open - the Serena Williams match, I have lost my respect for her - what she did was classless and shows that she really is a 'small' person - she doesn't stand tall. Her win over Serena was tainted. Up until then I was a big fan, but since that match, I am no longer a fan.

I'm sure she'll be very, very upset when I tell her what you have said!

I don't think she's worried. Plus, she also wouldn't want fans like you who think like that! Pathetic!
 

driger

Banned
0.2RatedPlayer said:
i never watched that FO final with her and serena. what exactly does raising her hand do with cheating? a quick explanation please?
serena started to serve. justine partially raised her hand. serena served anyway, committing a fault. chairperson ruled the serve to be in play. serena whined to no avail. justine did what ant professional would do in any sport. let the chairperson officiate the match.
 
Kaptain Karl said:
I've stated before, the "Cheater" label is deserved if you cheat ONE TIME. Justine cheated -- plain and simple -- with her Hand/No Hand act.

[And the Umpire never asked Henin if she held up her hand. The Ump merely looked at her. As Matt posts (#20) Henin ducked the opportunity to be honest. She cheated.

I heard Carillo (I think?) report that Serena confronted Justine in the locker room after the match, demanding to know why Justine didn't admit to holding up her hand. Justine's reported response was, "The Umpire didn't ask me."]

Justine is a cheater. Henin no longer has my respect.

- KK
Again - Justine will not lose any sleep over you not being her fan - she's getting on fine without you thanks. She has millions of fans all over the world.

BTW, Serena faking injuries - does that also not come to mind??? Is Serena such a sportsman (yes I said man). What about when she screamed at Peer because she thought she'd hit the ball at her on purpose. Serena was losing against a virtually unknown and didn't like it - so she tried to bully Shahar Peer. Double-standards I would say.
 
driger said:
justine a "greaser"? i thought she was belgian. thanks for your clarification on the incident karl. by that standard, i guess everyones a cheater.
Like the joke driger.

Exactly - apart from Clijsters, most of them try to get away with something if they can, whether intentional or unintentional.

Most of the posters on here that bash Henin-Hardenne are just angry that they don't like her, but love the way she plays. So they have to justify why they don't like her. If you don't like her, don't watch her game - easy as that! She ain't worried believe you me.
 

aj_m2009

Professional
Justine Fanatic said:
Again - Justine will not lose any sleep over you not being her fan - she's getting on fine without you thanks. She has millions of fans all over the world.

BTW, Serena faking injuries - does that also not come to mind??? Is Serena such a sportsman (yes I said man). What about when she screamed at Peer because she thought she'd hit the ball at her on purpose. Serena was losing against a virtually unknown and didn't like it - so she tried to bully Shahar Peer. Double-standards I would say.
When the heck did she scream at her? She never screamed.:roll: And what are you, the head of Justine's fan club?
 

aj_m2009

Professional
Justine Fanatic said:
...If you don't like her, don't watch her game - easy as that!
And what if she is playing one of our favs? Are we just supposed to say "oh forget da-da-da-da-da since she is playing Justine". I don't think so.

She ain't worried believe you me.
And how many more times can you possibly say that?
 
DashaandSafin said:
Serena's ass got in the way of her line of vision

That has really, really made me chuckle - I can't stop picturing it!!! Oh that's made my evening. Thank you so much! Along with Justine mullering Gruntapova - what a day!!!!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
aj_m2009 said:
And what if she is playing one of our favs? Are we just supposed to say "oh forget da-da-da-da-da since she is playing Justine". I don't think so.

I won't be worth watching cuz you'll only be upset when she beats them and then you'll complain again, so is it worth watching just to get upset and annoyed? Think about it!

And how many more times can you possibly say that?
Quite a few if you want.
 

aj_m2009

Professional
Justine Fanatic said:
I won't be worth watching cuz you'll only be upset when she beats them and then you'll complain again, so is it worth watching just to get upset and annoyed? Think about it!
What, is she invincible or something? Can she not lose?

Quite a few if you want.
Go ahead, I don't really care, I was just pointing out that you have said it several times?
 
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