James Blake, I saw him play last night

I think Delpo is more tailor made to beat Rafa. He's tall, so he doesn't mind Nadal's high kicking balls, and he's got enough fire power to, when he's playing his best, hit through Nadal.

Delpo, as Djokovic, are way better than Blake.

But as a style matchup, I still have to see that Delpo is a worst matchup for Nadal. Let's see if Nadal can figure Delpo out, like he did with other players. But he never figured out Blake after several matches.
 
By the way, I saw James's brother walking around with a couple of different Donnay racquets, wonder what is that all about...
 
In which case you would be officially insane, especialy regarding Blake. Blake has never played tennis that would even come close to beating Federer at his best. If he has name me a single match or tournament he has played his whole career vs anyone that would beat Federer at his best, I look forward to any answer you could conjure to that one. Their matches vs each other alone would prove that, he wasnt close to winning in any of them except for his one actual win where he won in 2 close sets over Federer producing 58 unforced errors in 2 sets, so obviously would have won just playing a bit less awful that day. So you are forced to suggest Blake has never played his best tennis in any of his many matches with Federer.

Safin is a rather weak case too given his 2-11 head to head with Federer, but atleast he did have one day he beat Federer playing very well in an epic, and in a major encounter.

Again, as previously mentioned (try and pay attention); players playing at their best is completely, or at least rather largely, a hypothetical. So no, there is no match or tournament that i would cite. However, taking the elements of the players that I've seen when they are playing very well and then extrapulating those attributes - yes, i can see how Blake playing at his best would beat Federer playing at his best. 'Peak' Blake is faster, especially the first step, Blake is more athletic, Blake has more top end power and penetration. i also feel peak Blake has a better more damaging return than Federer at his best.

Now in the every day in and day out, of course Federer is superior!



LOL this one is rich and I happen to like Venus. What is Venus's best exactly.

1999- lost Australian Open quarters to Davenport 6-4, 6-0, lost French Open 4th round to Schwarz, lost Wimbledon quarters to 30 year old Graf in final tournament, lost U.S Open semis to Hingis, lost WTA final semis to Hingis.

2000- struggled throughout year with aging way past her prime Sanchez Vicario including losing to her in French Open quarters, had smackdown losses to Coetzer and Dokic, was 2 points from defeat to Hingis in U.S Open semis, and didnt win a tournament all year outside of grass or decoturf hard.

2001- lost 6-1, 6-1 to Hingis in Australian Open semis, lost 1st round of French to Barbara Schett. During dominant 3 month summer swing lost to Shaughnessy.

2002 and 2003- lost 5 slam finals in a row to Serena, lost to Zvonareva and nearly retired Seles in other 2 slam apperances.

So Venus playing at her best would beat Henin at her best on clay, or Serena at her best on rebound ace, or Navratilova or Graf at their best on grass. Yeah right.

Again, a players best is a hypothetical! But, why in the world would you cite some of Venus' worst matches in this discussion :confused: ???

That makes absolutely no sense, and you should be smacked for doing so!

Peak Venus is faster, more athletic, and more explosive than any other woman who has stepped on the tennis court!!!

Some women at their peak can match her power off the ground; such as Davenport, Serena, maybe Pierce or Sharapova - or consistently on serve: only Serena. But none of those women are either as fast as Venus (Serena is a step slower) or have her reach. And no woman I've seen has her improvizationally skills.

Also I'm mainly talking about on a nuetral surface, namely a medium to fast hardcourt..




I take it you have never seen a Blake-Federer match. Federer has more winners than Blake in all of their encounters. Their best match was at the 2006 U.S Open which was definitely Blake playing at his absolute best, and still nearly losing in 3 straight sets. They ended the match with roughly the same unforced errors while Federer produced about 20 more winners.

I suggest you not assume that you know which matches I've seen.
 
ROTFL so you admit you cant name a single match Blake has ever played which would beat Federer at his best yet you still insist on arguing Blake at his best would beat Federer at his. That is the one thing to love about this forum, there are always some posters who take nonsense to a whole new level altogether. Let me spell it out clearly for you, Federer playing his best would beat Blake playing at his best in straight sets everytime (or maybe 1 times out of 6 Blake might sneak out 1 set only). Federer at his best reaches levels far higher, and Blake creates none of the matchup problems for Federer he did for young Nadal. Federer easily is able to read and outplay Blake off the forehand side which is Blakes best shot, has a far stronger serve, is overall a more efficient mover even if Blake is equally fast, plays far better defense, is a much better overall returner, obviously volleys alot better (even if not great either), has more variety, is a better overall shotmaker. Even the Blake fans on here, the sane ones anyway, would concur I am right.

And the 2006 U.S Open match with Federer is definitely the very best tennis Blake is capable of playing and he still was a point from losing in 3 sets, eventually losing solidly in 4 sets.

As for Venus if you are admitting her best is not the best or even close to it on clay or rebound ace, then already you are admitting her best is not the best. Tennis is played on all surfaces, not just a medium to fast hard court. For the record Serena at her best would most times beat Venus at her best on EVERY surface. Venus in 2002-2003 would have had her best years ever but instead got rolled over by the Serena train. In fact I would say all these players beat Venus even at her absolute best at their own best:

Rebound Ace- Hingis, Davenport, Capriati, Graf, Seles, Serena, Henin, Clijsters, Evert, Pierce, Mauresmo, Sharapova
Decoturf- Serena, Graf, Navratilova
Grass- Navratilova, Serena, Graf
Clay- Henin, Graf, Seles, Evert, Capriati, Serena, Hingis, Kuznetsova, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Ivanovic, Jankovic, many others
Indoors- Navratilova, Graf, Davenport, Hingis, Clijsters, Henin, Serena

OK so on decoturf and grass the list might be shorter, I will give you that much. On slower surfaces and even indoors there are alot.
 
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And to say ones best can be completely hypothetical and something they never produce in a 10 year pro career is absurd. In that case we could just invent a hypothetical best for each of our favorite players. I decide to give Nadal a 200 mph serve and McEnroe volleys to create his new hypothetical best, voila Nadal would win all 1000 matches he played at his new best.
 
Your comprehension is obviously not the best. I said I could see how Blake or Safin or other highly offensive player playing at their best would beat Federer playing at his best. Few players can play more offense than Federer, Blake and Safin are two that can...

And your Venus analysis is completely ludicris IMO. However, everyone has a right to their opinion. Especially considering a hypothetical argument such as peak player X vs peak player Y... Its basically impossible to prove.
 
And to say ones best can be completely hypothetical and something they never produce in a 10 year pro career is absurd. In that case we could just invent a hypothetical best for each of our favorite players. I decide to give Nadal a 200 mph serve and McEnroe volleys to create his new hypothetical best, voila Nadal would win all 1000 matches he played at his new best.


Again, try your best to comprehend...

as i said "taking the elements of the players that I've seen when they are playing very well and then extrapulating those attributes"

Its hypotheitcal not fantasy!
 
Your comprehension is obviously not the best. I said I could see how Blake or Safin or other highly offensive player playing at their best would beat Federer playing at his best.

I comprehend perfectly well your statement and any statement that Blake at his best could ever beat Federer playing at his best is proposterous. It is very simple. You are probably the only one on the planet who follows even a bit of tennis who doesnt get that. It would be one thing if Blake created any matchup problems for Federer like he does Nadal, but he clearly creates none whatsoever.

Blake does NOT produce better overall offense than Federer even playing at his best, if Federer is just playing fairly well, especialy against each other. Anyone who has seen both play, especialy against each other, realizes this. There is more to offense than just how hard you can hit the ball otherwise Gulbis would have the games best offense.

Safin atleast you could make a small case on since he did beat Federer playing close to his best in one encounter. Still a false one IMO, but atleast you could try. However Safins best is a much higher level than Blakes anyway, so it makes no sense to lump the two together.

As for my Venus comparision there was nothing off base about it at all. Serena has proven many times her best is better than Venus on any surface. Someone like Henin would beat Venus on clay with both playing their best 6-2, 6-1 or something like that, although on grass it would be close to the reverse scores. Venus is not even close to unbeatable playing her best if certain others are as well.
 
To say that Blake's best beats Federer's best means we have to conjure up all those 6-0 6-1 Blake wins...those matches where he played his best. I cannot think of many of those. But I sure can come up with a lot of Federer wins by similar scores.
Average Federer beats average Blake, Average Federer beats great Blake, great Federer beats great Blake, bad Federer beats average Blake, only bad Federer loses to great Blake.
 
And the 2006 U.S Open match with Federer is definitely the very best tennis Blake is capable of playing and he still was a point from losing in 3 sets, eventually losing solidly in 4 sets.

Trust me, as someone who's watched practically every Blake match, that was not even close to the best level I've seen from him. He took a freaking bagel for gods sake. Actually the 08 AO match was a much better effort from Blake.

In any case I could list at least 10 matches from Blake where he played a higher level than he did in that 06 USO match.

To say that Blake's best beats Federer's best means we have to conjure up all those 6-0 6-1 Blake wins...those matches where he played his best. I cannot think of many of those. But I sure can come up with a lot of Federer wins by similar scores.
Average Federer beats average Blake, Average Federer beats great Blake, great Federer beats great Blake, bad Federer beats average Blake, only bad Federer loses to great Blake.

Pretty much this...which is why 'at his best' is an irrelevant discussion to have.
 
With this whole player's best thing...

Basically my philosphy is, a more offensive player (at peak) can beat a less offensive player (at peak)... for the most part.

Lets break the game (tennis) up into its most basic 'tangible' elements:

Offense and Defense.

There are other elements that are very important (if not the major determinative facotrs nowadays) in tennis that are intangible, such as mental toughness, drive, concentration, consistency etc. These are the elements, that i feel, when two players are playing their best- both will have in abundance and any normal advantage one player would usually have is largely negated. Let me just say, this is completely unfair and ridiculous in reality, thats why its a hypothetical!!!

Tangible factors (Offense and Defense):

Offense - power, pace, and penetration on serve and groundstrokes and secondarily at net.

Defense - speed, reflexes, endurance.

As far as peak Blake vs peak Federer:

Offense:
I think Blake has more power and penetration off the ground - I've seen him hit some crazy shots, he just extremely inconsistent. I think Federer has greater spin and sometimes pace. As far as serve, I think both are pretty close at peak. Overall Blake is a more offensive player at peak.

Defense:
I think Blake is faster and more athletic than Federer. I would give Federer an edge in endurance.

So at peak, Blake can beat peak Federer.

As far as the women are concerned; Venus is at the top in both offense and defense as far as what i've seen.

What woman is faster than peak Venus? More powerful than peak Venus? More athletic than peak Venus? I haven't seen one!

And just to put the racial concerns of some of you to rest: I would also say that Peak Safin can beat peak Federer.

Also as a Rafa fan, i will have to admit that in the hypotheitcal peak vs peak argument - Rafa is much more vunerable than Federer is... to more players.
 
To say that Blake's best beats Federer's best means we have to conjure up all those 6-0 6-1 Blake wins...those matches where he played his best. I cannot think of many of those. But I sure can come up with a lot of Federer wins by similar scores.
Average Federer beats average Blake, Average Federer beats great Blake, great Federer beats great Blake, bad Federer beats average Blake, only bad Federer loses to great Blake.
Agreed. Blake just did not have what it took to beat Federer. It took like a boatload of UEs for Blake to win just one match.
 
With this whole player's best thing...

Basically my philosphy is, a more offensive player (at peak) can beat a less offensive player (at peak)... for the most part.

Since Federer is clearly a better offensive AND defensive player than Blake even with both at their best, it is a moot point in this case.


As far as peak Blake vs peak Federer:

Offense:
I think Blake has more power and penetration off the ground - I've seen him hit some crazy shots, he just extremely inconsistent. I think Federer has greater spin and sometimes pace. As far as serve, I think both are pretty close at peak. Overall Blake is a more offensive player at peak.

Blake is not a better offensive player at his peak. He is a very good one but Federer is better. Federer dominated the entire field in the winner stats category at his peak in the mid 2000s proving he was clearly the best offensive player in the game. And in all his matches with Blake he had more winners than Blake. This proves he was creating more offense than Blake can. If there were a couple who came close to peak Federer in offensive output, Blake still wouldnt be one of them.

There is so much more to hitting winners than how hard you hit the ball btw.

As for this part. As far as serve, I think both are pretty close at peak
Simply ridiculous. You must just look at the MPH and nothing else. Federer has one of the top few serves in the game. Blake at his best had a pretty good serve but nowhere near Federer. Imagine Blake playing his best hitting 50 aces and a basket of other service winners in a Wimbledon final, even one that went 5 long sets against a poor returner like Roddick, as Federer did (or hitting nearly 30 aces in a Wimbledon final vs Nadal).


Defense:
I think Blake is faster and more athletic than Federer. I would give Federer an edge in endurance.

Your overly simplistic analysis of defense is terrible. Blake is fast but he doesnt even like to or try much to play defense when forced to. Even if speed wise he is comparable to Federer he is nowhere near as good a defender overall.


So at peak, Blake can beat peak Federer.

Well atleast now you have shown your reasoning behind thinking this is as much pure BS as the statement itself, LOL!


As far as the women are concerned; Venus is at the top in both offense and defense as far as what i've seen.

Consistency is a big part of tennis too, and Venus even playing her best is nowhere near some other players at that. Even playing her absolute best she wont commit less than 15 unforced errors per set vs a quality opponent who can hit back with alot of power and also run fast, gauranteed. There are women with equally potent of offense who also play great defense but far more consistent.

What woman is faster than peak Venus?

Graf, Serena, Henin, Clijsters, Navratilova, Goolagong, are all atleast equally fast. Graf is definitely faster.


More powerful than peak Venus?

Serena, Davenport, Pierce, are all atleast equally powerful. Serena is probably more powerful overall. Davenport and Pierce are more powerful when set up but less so on the run.


And the biggest flaw in your apparent reasoning is you seem to think peak level of tennis is about absolutely nothing than power and speed. That you think defense is about nothing more than how fast you can run is especialy strange.


And just to put the racial concerns of some of you to rest: I would also say that Peak Safin can beat peak Federer.

Yes peak Safin has about a 10% chance to beat peak Federer (vs the 0-1% of peak Blake).


Also as a Rafa fan, i will have to admit that in the hypotheitcal peak vs peak argument - Rafa is much more vunerable than Federer is... to more players.

On hard courts I would agree. Definitely not on clay, and not on grass to anyone but Federer. Then again since you think Venus playing her best could beat Henin at her best on clay, you probably think Roddick playing his best could beat Nadal at his best on clay too, LOL!
 
Blake is a smart guy apparently, but he has the tennis IQ of a potato. No strategic vision on the court, career-wise. Wants to crush every ball. Never wins now and boring to watch. Not that Fed is making any adjustments against the top 2....
 
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