Jannik Sinner, Carlos Alcaraz and Novak Djokovic withdraw from Toronto [!]

ND-13 said:
Nadal's legacy is what he did at RG, being the daddy of Novak in big matches, the 2013 USO HC Swing including the Montreal episode, the 2008 Wimb final. Not by any means what he did or did not do from 2018-23
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Lets go back to the question I am asking, and put all this waffling about other things to one side.

Yes or No, did Nadal inflate his Canada titles by winning back to back titles in 2018 and 2019. Yes or no?
 
Hitman said:
Lets go back to the question I am asking, and put all this waffling about other things to one side.

Yes or No, did Nadal inflate his Canada titles by winning back to back titles in 2018 and 2019. Yes or no?
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I am saying Nadal will be revered as much even if he retired at the end of 2017. He did not need 2018-23

Cannot say the same about Djokovic.

That is all i have to say on the subject.
 
ND-13 said:
I am saying Nadal will be revered as much even if he retired at the end of 2017. He did not need 2018-23

Cannot say the same about Djokovic.

That is all i have to say on the subject.
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Yes or no, did Nadal inflate his Canada titles by winning the titles back to back in 2018 and 2019, during the cope era of 2018-2023.

Revered or not, did he or did he not inflate his titles in 2018 and 2019 according to you?

Simple yes or no.

If you cannot answer, I'll take it as a yes. :)
 
RS said:
Lol the sandwich shops near were I am are still open as always.

Maybe because it's a London thing.
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I'm thinking of the one closest to me, it's family-owned. Wasn't even in the mood for a sandwich, but I was out with my sister, she suggested it, then I was suddenly in the mood, but the shop was closed.
 
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ND-13 said:
Zverev will win one and folks will hype him as to how he was such a great player based on the masters count,
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Zverev also has an Olympic Gold in singles (beating a Djokovic who won 3 Slams that year in the process), 2 ATP finals (in the 2018 one he also beat a 31 years old Djokovic who won 2 Slams that year) and multiple Slam finals on different surfaces (In two of which he went to 5 sets).

I don't think being in the conversation as the greatest player never to win a Slam is calling him that great, anyway. It's just objectively true that in terms of career achievements he's top tier in the list of best players never to win a Slam.
 
SneederFeeder said:
He hurt his elbow against Dimitrov. Not a full injury proper obviously but he likely doesn't wanna risk it for a random Master and prefers waiting a bit, till it's fully back to normal
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Okay, if he is injured, that is different, as I said. But if he thinks he should rest, my view is that it is an old wives’ tale to think that playing two warmups reduces his chances at the US Open. Him playing neither, one, or both Canada and Cincinnati doesn’t impact how he does in New York, and claims that they do are, to quote a wise man, untestable and therefore irrelevant. Him losing at the us open are playing Canada wouldn’t prove that he lost because he played Canada. Him winning the us open after not playing Canada wouldn’t prove that he won because of skipping Canada.

Given that Djokovic is 38, it makes sense to think he should play sparingly, but not for Sinner at 23-24.
 
helterskelter said:
Okay, if he is injured, that is different, as I said. But if he thinks he should rest, my view is that it is an old wives’ tale to think that playing two warmups reduces his chances at the US Open. Him playing neither, one, or both Canada and Cincinnati doesn’t impact how he does in New York, and claims that they do are, to quote a wise man, untestable and therefore irrelevant. Him losing at the us open are playing Canada wouldn’t prove that he lost because he played Canada. Him winning the us open after not playing Canada wouldn’t prove that he won because of skipping Canada.
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I agree, if it was about pure stamina, there's no reason not to play both.
 
MichaelNadal said:
Canada isn't really Canada without king Rafa :D

Rafael%2BNadal%2BRogers%2BCup%2BToronto%2BDay%2B6%2BGKFQqlYkQBTx-715x506.jpg

...
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True.

7ef79-15651065452211-800.jpg

(y)
...
 
messiahrobins said:
Obviously more to this than just players resting. They all pulled out on same day lol.
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I would say that this is a protest by tennis players against the two-week Masters tournaments, they are too long and tiring for players, especially shortly after the end of a Grand Slam event.
 
StefanosRespecter said:
Kind of feels like a lame Masters tourney to me, maybe because I have a bias against Canada? Who knows.

I would rather see a masters in LA/Atlanta/Philidelphia.
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Well lets see who else drops out, because I am certain we will see a few more players decide to skip it.
 
Sabalenka also withdrew on the women's side.

For star players from Europe, it's no surprise that they don't particularly want to spend 5 weeks in North America ahead of the US Open.

Canada and Cincy, alongside, Madrid, Rome and Shanghai, becoming two week (or 12 day but filling 2 weeks on the calendar) masters series events was never a good idea to me. It seems like such a grind and bore for the top players, while for lower ranked players 5 more weeks on the calendar without any 250 events is clearly a bad thing.
 
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dking68 said:
I honestly don’t know why he’s playing. Sinner has just beaten him like a drum in 3 out of 4 slams. He needs to hang it up because he isn’t winning another. Sinner is just soaring in confidence and the Serbian is declining, and declining fast
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Sinner can always get hurt (knock on wood) or upset. Novak still has a chance with Carlos. He just can’t beat Sinner.

Two week Masters are awful and I hope they get rid of them. IW and Miami should be the only ones.
 
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dking68 said:
I honestly don’t know why he’s playing. Sinner has just beaten him like a drum in 3 out of 4 slams. He needs to hang it up because he isn’t winning another. Sinner is just soaring in confidence and the Serbian is declining, and declining fast
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That´s a little "Sinner-centric", at least in the Wimbledon final 2024 a tiny Spaniard did some drumming too. Furthermore, in the bigger picture one should not overlook BvdZ (Indian Wells), Tabilo (MC), and Arnaldi (Madrid).
 
sortof said:
That´s a little "Sinner-centric", at least in the Wimbledon final 2024 a tiny Spaniard did some drumming too. Furthermore, in the bigger picture one should not overlook BvdZ (Indian Wells), Tabilo (MC), and Arnaldi (Madrid).
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Sinner is a bad matchup for Novak
 
MeatTornado said:
To the surprise of absolutely no one, making Masters into 2 week events doesn't trick players into thinking it's a great event where they can get so much rest.
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Turning them into two-week events at this time of year actually probably makes players more likely to pick just one rather than the other, as the days off in between matches don't make up for having to play four weeks in a row rather than just two. It's fine in March to have the events take up more time, but not in a short turnaround between Wimbledon and the US Open. If they go back to being one-week events with a week in between (e.g. in 2025 having Canada the week of July 21-27 and Cincinnati the week of August 4-10), the schedule will seem much less busy.
 
messiahrobins said:
Draper out too. The literal top 4 lol.

All on same day. More to it I think.
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It's #s 1, 2, 5, and 6, literally. Zverev and Fritz will be the top two seeds as things stand, though Fritz is playing Washington D.C., so might well withdraw if he goes deep this week. And as you would say, Zverev is unlikely to want to play in a "woke" country, so we may well end up with Musetti as the #1 seed, but he's struggling with injury, so the top seed might be Shelton!
 
Novak should play Winston Salem and focus more on 110 instead of 25. Two week masters are a waste of time.
 
helterskelter said:
Turning them into two-week events at this time of year actually probably makes players more likely to pick just one rather than the other, as the days off in between matches don't make up for having to play four weeks in a row rather than just two. It's fine in March to have the events take up more time, but not in a short turnaround between Wimbledon and the US Open. If they go back to being one-week events with a week in between (e.g. in 2025 having Canada the week of July 21-27 and Cincinnati the week of August 4-10), the schedule will seem much less busy.
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..especially since Masters are Bo3 anyway (not that they should be, IMO).
 
DSH said:
It's illogical to think that they can beat a tennis player who is at the peak of his career and not be able to defeat another tennis player who is clearly in decline.
:D

Why Draper's decision?
:unsure:
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Draper supposedly injured his left arm. Don’t know details. He claims nothing serious but gearing up for USO.
 
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So number 1 weeks and consecutive number 1 weeks mean nothing to Sinner? 1.540 points behind Alcaraz in race but he still thinks he doesn't need to play (with 3 months less on his body than the others).
 
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