Jannik Sinner, now Wada plays a new card

[Bride of Alcaraz]

Look at my other post.

When you are a "cheater" for using an over-the-counter cream which thousands of normal people use everyday, then youre miles away from the labs that the Lance Armstrong team was running. If the tests are so sensitive that cream can even be transferred from the hands of your physio, you have a scenario where it is close to impossible for athletes to play it safe, and things obviously have to change.

But nobody can prove that Sinner's positive reading was caused by the spray.
You can prove his physio used the spray on Sinner, and that the spray can cause a positive reading, but that is all.
Its just a story (that the spray caused Sinner's positive reading), not fact!

 

[TheGoldenEra1990’s]

Meh he’s the top player on tour. Nothing is going to happen to him. Only mugs or middle of the road players get suspended. They will turn a blind eye to all their top money makers. They would do the same for Carlos too


You think they’re gonna risk 2 years of no sinner and alcaraz matches and instead give us Tylor Fritz LOL!!!!!! They can’t afford to lose sinner or Carlos because the rest of the tour is trash. They will have no viewers

 

[FeroBango]

But nobody can prove that Sinner's positive reading was caused by the spray.
You can prove his physio used the spray on Sinner, and that the spray can cause a positive reading, but that is all.
Its just a story (that the spray caused Sinner's positive reading), not fact!

That a lot of us here don't see that his explanation is one of the many plausible ones blows my mind.

We know Sinner is innocent. How? He narrated a technically possible story hehe.

 

[Watching]

Meh he’s the top player on tour. Nothing is going to happen to him. Only mugs or middle of the road players get suspended. They will turn a blind eye to all their top money makers. They would do the same for Carlos too


You think they’re gonna risk 2 years of no sinner and alcaraz matches and instead give us Tylor Fritz LOL!!!!!! They can’t afford to lose sinner or Carlos because the rest of the tour is trash. They will have no viewers

they still could ban Sinner and have a somewhat interesting season since Alcaraz is capable of losing to hobos from time to time.
Had it been Alcaraz instead, THAT would have definitely killed the tour.

I don't want Zverev to win any major though so please don't suspend Sinner

 

[FeroBango]

they still could ban Sinner and have a somewhat interesting season since Alcaraz is capable of losing to hobos from time to time.
Had it been Alcaraz instead, THAT would have definitely killed the tour.

I don't want Zverev to win any major though so please don't suspend Sinner

You never know. Sinner at Alcaraz' age was almost guaranteed to lose to hobos for example.

Let's see how the future unfolds.

 

[NeutralFan]

Meh he’s the top player on tour. Nothing is going to happen to him. Only mugs or middle of the road players get suspended. They will turn a blind eye to all their top money makers. They would do the same for Carlos too


You think they’re gonna risk 2 years of no sinner and alcaraz matches and instead give us Tylor Fritz LOL!!!!!! They can’t afford to lose sinner or Carlos because the rest of the tour is trash. They will have no viewers

Lol!! True i hope he has access to best juice and drink since Djokovic's ex physio is in his team now. No more ****ty massage

 

[FeroBango]

Del

 

[Jonas78]

But nobody can prove that Sinner's positive reading was caused by the spray.
You can prove his physio used the spray on Sinner, and that the spray can cause a positive reading, but that is all.
Its just a story (that the spray caused Sinner's positive reading), not fact!

Sure, but if specialists say "the story" is plausible, then athletes must always live in constant fear of a positive test, because its impossible to play it safe, unless you live in total isolation, and have all your food and liquid analysed before you consume.

My personal meaning, for what its worth, is that something is wrong if its this sensitive. If something half the population buys for sunburned lips or scars over-the-counter makes you a cheater, something needs to be changed.

 

[Youngheart]

The tennis world (at TalkTennis) is in a dangerously stressful mood about Sinner.
I have a plan which will quiet the nervous tension in the stands. I purpose that at
each changeover, free hotdogs & beer will be passed around the stadium.
If Section A gets way too rambunctious, no problem, that will be equalized by simply
giving Section B an extra ration of the good stuff!! (Which end of the dog do you eat first?)

 

[norcal]

because its impossible to play it safe, unless you live in total isolation, and have all your food and liquid analysed before you consume.

My dude, this cream is legal only in Italy and has a giant red warning about testing positive if you use it. It's not that hard to avoid.

 

[ppma]

they still could ban Sinner and have a somewhat interesting season since Alcaraz is capable of losing to hobos from time to time.

Lol true, but sad.

 

[RSJfan]

Guys I understand you enjoy conspiracy theories but quoting articles from sept 10th when WADA actually appealed on the 26th is beyond stupid

Stupid is an attraction not a flaw of conspiracy theories.

 

[NaDjoFed]

Yeah one thing was when the athletes rooms looked like labs in the EPO era, or heavy anabolic steroids use among bodybuilders, or the Sochi scandal. But when over-the-counter creams which normal people use everyday, turns you into a cheater, which according to specialists can even be transferred from another person, then something obviously has to change.

It seems like WADA is more into winning than keeping the sports clean.

Exactly. Are the primary WADA's goals to catch cheats and prevent athletes from gaining unfair advantages over their peers or appeal (for the first time ever) for an accidental contamination, as ruled by the ITIA and agreed by the WADA? If this is not political, I do know what it is

 

[FeroBango]

Conspiracy theorists are now those who bemoaned conspiracy theories a few weeks ago lol.

 

[Jonas78]

Exactly. Are the primary WADA's goals to catch cheats and prevent athletes from gaining unfair advantages over their peers or appeal (for the first time ever) for an accidental contamination, as ruled by the ITIA and agreed by the WADA? If this is not political, I do know what it is

They just dont want to lose face at this point.

Its like when someone gets caught on the subway without a ticket, but actually has a good explanation for it, but the ticket inspector just wont let go

 

[Bartelby]

You can't ride on the subway without a ticket whatever good explanation you have.

And you can't have dope in your system whatever innocent explanation you may offer.

They just dont want to lose face at this point.

Its like when someone gets caught on the subway without a ticket, but actually has a good explanation for it, but the ticket inspector just wont let go

 

[Jonas78]

You can't ride on the subway without a ticket whatever good explanation you have.

And you can't have dope in your system whatever innocent explanation you may offer.

Well in Norway you can, if you actually have an explanation for it, things shouldnt be only black or white.

When it comes to dope im pretty sure there will be changes, because you have to differenciate between Lance Armstrong and Sinner. If cream from your physios hands can make you a cheater, your constantly in dire straits as an athlete.

 

[FreeJannik]

a few weeks ago, before the appealing, an italian journal interviewed "an anonymous wada source" regarding Sinner case, this "anonymous wada source" said they know that Sinner is not doped (he get checked too often to use PED and the quantity measured is totally ineffective) but they are worried the case can be used by athletes that really want to dope. Anyway italian journals are not the most reliable source so take the information with some suspicion.

 

[RSJfan]

Well in Norway you can, if you actually have an explanation for it, things shouldnt be only black or white..,

Hee Hee

 

[FreeJannik]

a small provocation: witch hunting in the end worked fine, i don't see any witch these days, so maybe it's the right way to go.

 

[vokazu]

Makes sense. Here we are all committed to end with corruption in all of its forms.

fixed that for you

 

[vokazu]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1842209776953856426

Tara Moore's twitter account still exists :

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1826620961040527758

 

[Bartelby]

there won't be any changes in doping laws as its strict liability

you said you need a 'good explanation' before and now it's just an 'explanation'

i've heard of cases of children and people riding free but these are unusual cases.

Well in Norway you can, if you actually have an explanation for it, things shouldnt be only black or white.

When it comes to dope im pretty sure there will be changes, because you have to differenciate between Lance Armstrong and Sinner. If cream from your physios hands can make you a cheater, your constantly in dire straits as an athlete.

 

[Jonas78]

there wont be any changes

Well lets see...

Even if it doesnt, people generally need to get more nuanced. Noone would put you in the same category as Charles Manson, if someone accidentally jumped in front of your car. But people tend to have a very black/white view on a positive drug test, no matter if it happened unintentionally, or like with Lance Armstrong. Positive test = cheater, no matter the circumstances. Its just silly, really.

 

[vokazu]

Lance Armstrong was so confident winning those last Tour De France titles. Sinner looks really confident too.

 

[Sudacafan]

fixed that for you

Makes sense. Here we are all committed to end with corruption in all of its forms.

Fixed your fix.

 

[vokazu]

Apparently you can also get Clostebol in your urine by eating contaminated meat. I think going Vegan is a smarter way if you play Pro sports.

Clostebol-positive urine after consumption of contaminated meat - PubMed

We examined the relationship between the consumption of meat from animals treated with anabolic steroids and the detection of these steroids in the athletes consuming this meat. We proved that clostebol metabolites (e.g., 4-chloro-delta-4-androstene-3 alpha-ol-17-one) in the urine of one of the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

We examined the relationship between the consumption of meat from animals treated with anabolic steroids and the detection of these steroids in the athletes consuming this meat. We proved that clostebol metabolites (e.g., 4-chloro-delta-4-androstene-3 alpha-ol-17-one) in the urine of one of the volunteers involved in a feeding experiment were due to accidental consumption of meat contaminated with clostebol acetate. When two volunteers consumed meat (100 g) containing either 1 or 0.1 mg of clostebol acetate, the same metabolite was found in their urine.

 

[Jonas78]

there won't be any changes in doping laws as its strict liability

you said you need a 'good explanation' before and now it's just an 'explanation'

i've heard of cases of children and people riding free but these are unusual cases.

Point is thing isnt black and white. I always buy monthly tickets on the subway and sometimes i forget to renew it for some hours or up to a day after it expires. The inspectors have never fined me because i can show them the receipts several months back, so they know im not doing it on purpose.

But if its that strict, how could they let Sinner go?

 

[Tallawah Tennis]

The tennis world (at TalkTennis) is in a dangerously stressful mood about Sinner.
I have a plan which will quiet the nervous tension in the stands. I purpose that at
each changeover, free hotdogs & beer will be passed around the stadium.
If Section A gets way too rambunctious, no problem, that will be equalized by simply
giving Section B an extra ration of the good stuff!! (Which end of the dog do you eat first?)

Heh, heh. In the interests of keeping on-topic, my instincts tell me that WADA wouldn't know how to play a card if it came and bit them in unmentionable parts of the body. Frankly, I have researched the issue of playing cards very thoroughly and strongly advise WADA to keep away from cards. They might be taken more seriously as a result, although obviously, this cannot be guaranteed.

Turning to your comment, man, that is a very helpful proposal, but I strike you with my glove ( very good leather) and call a duel at dawn - a set of tennis with the least fluffy balls. I trust Molisa has no objections. Let me warn you for reasons of utmost transparency, that I have killer serves / groundstrokes - my forehand down the line being particulary noteworthy. I even get them across the net at times.

The reason for my chagrin is uncomplicated ( we are, after all on TTW and must be considerate ). You have overlooked those that would not eat a hotdog even if their life depended on it. All that processed stuff - yuk! Next, you offer beer, and overlook those that do not consume it. Where, I ask, has common decency gone when you purport to assist those in the stands but sideline a significant part of the rabble? Frankly, Molisa ought to have a word with you. Please consider adding cucumber sandwiches and champagne to the options available.

As for which end of the dog .......... I request that you refrain from such crude inferences immediately. There might be children in the stands. I trust that my position is clear.

 

[buscemi]

I have a question for the forum: WADA says it's appealing, claiming that the finding of "no fault or negligence" was not correct under the applicable rules. Does anyone know what the definition of "negligence" is under the rules?

 

[Bartelby]

That's the point of the appeal. The decision was and is anomalous. We need to know whether this decision is correct and will be followed in the future or whether it is incorrect.

Point is thing isnt black and white. I always buy monthly tickets on the subway and sometimes i forget to renew it for some hours or up to a day after it expires. The inspectors have never fined me because i can show them the receipts several months back, so they know im not doing it on purpose.

But if its that strict, how could they let Sinner go?

 

[Bartelby]

The rules split doping into intentional and unintentional doping. Sinner's team claimed he tested positive due to their fault or negligence. I suppose WADA would claim their fault is his fault.

I have a question for the forum: WADA says it's appealing, claiming that the finding of "no fault or negligence" was not correct under the applicable rules. Does anyone know what the definition of "negligence" is under the rules?

 

[Bartelby]

No Fault or Negligence is defined as a situation where an athlete did not know or suspect, and could not reasonably have known or suspected even with the exercise of utmost caution, that s/he committed an ADRV.


This is the definition used in cases, but to unpack the meaning would require buying and reading several textbooks that are both lengthy and expensive.

But:

Element One: the athlete did not know or suspect I guess that Sinner did not know or suspect.

Element Two: could not have known or suspected. I guess that Sinner could have known or suspected.

Element 3: even with utmost caution: I guess that monitoring of his team did not require utmost caution.

 

[tennis3]

You can't ride on the subway without a ticket whatever good explanation you have.

And you can't have dope in your system whatever innocent explanation you may offer.

Is Sinner a turnstile jumper too?

Guy is a monster and must be stopped.

 

[Bartelby]

I neither wrote nor support the WADA playbook. All I'm arguing is that CAS must decide the matter because on the face of it the Sinner decision was anomalous.

Is Sinner a turnstile jumper too?

Guy is a monster and must be stopped.

 

[NeutralFan]

You can't ride on the subway without a ticket whatever good explanation you have.

And you can't have dope in your system whatever innocent explanation you may offer.

Cry harder, Sinner won't get punished

 

[AM75]

Sinner is actually German, he's Italian by political accident.

Austrian, to be precise.

 

[Sudacafan]

Austrian, to be precise.

Austrians are Germans, politically denied.

 

[AM75]

Austrians are Germans, politically denied.

Tell it to Austrians though. Good luck with that.

 

[Sudacafan]

Tell it to Austrians though. Good luck with that.

I have never met an Austrian, and I always thought they were closet Germans.
I will experiment and report findings.

 

[Bartelby]

Sinner will get punished, but it will probably be a brief and backdated suspension that will only cost him more money and points.

Cry harder, Sinner won't get punished

 

[NeutralFan]

Sinner will get punished, but it will probably be a brief and backdated suspension that will only cost him more money and points.

That won't be punishment then and i doubt that even if that happens. Sinner is the biggest crowd puller today , far bigger than Alcaraz and ATP won't touch him knowing he's innocent.

 

[Bartelby]

Sinner did not get a suspension, but he will end up with one however small so that's a punishment.

He got off initially probably because of the pressure of big money, but CAS is not as easily "persuadable".

That won't be punishment then and i doubt that even if that happens. Sinner is the biggest crowd puller today , far bigger than Alcaraz and ATP won't touch him knowing he's innocent.

 

[Jonas78]

No Fault or Negligence is defined as a situation where an athlete did not know or suspect, and could not reasonably have known or suspected even with the exercise of utmost caution, that s/he committed an ADRV.


This is the definition used in cases, but to unpack the meaning would require buying and reading several textbooks that are both lengthy and expensive.

But:

Element One: the athlete did not know or suspect I guess that Sinner did not know or suspect.

Element Two: could not have known or suspected. I guess that Sinner could have known or suspected.

Element 3: even with utmost caution: I guess that monitoring of his team did not require utmost caution.

It sounds very strange to me if WADA believes Sinners story, but mean that Sinner could have known/suspected that his physio had a cream on his hands which could cause Sinner a positive test.

 

[norcal]

Sinner is the biggest crowd puller today , far bigger than Alcaraz

You gettin' high on Sinner's supply?

 

[Jonas78]

Sinner did not get a suspension, but he will end up with one however small so that's a punishment.

He got off initially probably because of the pressure of big money, but CAS is not as easily "persuadable".

Give him a suspension between Miami and Wimbledon lol.

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

Whiney "I did nothing wrong"-bitches like Dopinner should get banned for life time.