Jason Jung TTW GOAT defeated Tiafoe

#3
Wow huge win.for him. Should get him back close to breaking top 100 with that win. Beating querrey next will be a tall order tho

Congrats!!!
Tiafoe is ranked a bit higher the Querey at the moment. I think it should be an easier match for Jung if plays like he played against Tiafoe!
 
#10
It's called the Osaka Effect.
Being entirely honest, there's no point in national representation in tennis at this point. Half the players live in Monte Carlo and then you have guys like this. Even Tsitsipas wanted to represent Australia (if they were to provide him with funding). But he would've at least lived there.

Jung rep'ing Taiwan is probably the worst case of an athlete selling his national representation I've seen. It's far worse than the Olympic athletes who do so because they couldn't make the Olympic team of their actual country.
 
#11
Being entirely honest, there's no point in national representation in tennis at this point. Half the players live in Monte Carlo and then you have guys like this. Even Tsitsipas wanted to represent Australia (if they were to provide him with funding). But he would've at least lived there.

Jung rep'ing Taiwan is probably the worst case of an athlete selling his national representation I've seen. It's far worse than the Olympic athletes who do so because they couldn't make the Olympic team of their actual country.
How is this worse than Djokovic living in Monaco ? Djokovic is a multi millionaire and still wants to avoid taxes. Jason probably cannot even have a career without the little funding he is receiving from Taiwan, which is where his parents hail from and Jason thus has close ties with that country.
 
#12
Being entirely honest, there's no point in national representation in tennis at this point. Half the players live in Monte Carlo and then you have guys like this. Even Tsitsipas wanted to represent Australia (if they were to provide him with funding). But he would've at least lived there.

Jung rep'ing Taiwan is probably the worst case of an athlete selling his national representation I've seen. It's far worse than the Olympic athletes who do so because they couldn't make the Olympic team of their actual country.
75% of the top 200 men and women can be summed up as: learned everything we know about tennis in Florida or Southern California
 
#13
How is this worse than Djokovic living in Monaco ? Djokovic is a multi millionaire and still wants to avoid taxes. Jason probably cannot even have a career without the little funding he is receiving from Taiwan, which is where his parents hail from and Jason thus has close ties with that country.
Novak never sold his representation. He had the opportunity to sell it to Britain, but he didn't. Regardless, I wouldn't want to pay taxes in Serbia either. Those governments are corrupt as hell. Jung is from a 1st world nation. The USA even. Let's not be dramatic and pretend that he's in that desperate of a situation. The point is it's a lie. A bigger lie than most. And probably the biggest one I've seen in this context.

The fact that his parents immigrated from Taiwan makes it an even bigger slap in the face to the country that took them in. IMO.
 
#15
Novak never sold his representation. He had the opportunity to sell it to Britain, but he didn't. Regardless, I wouldn't want to pay taxes in Serbia either. Those governments are corrupt as hell. Jung is from a 1st world nation. The USA even. Let's not be dramatic and pretend that he's in that desperate of a situation. The point is it's a lie. A bigger lie than most. And probably the biggest one I've seen in this context.

The fact that his parents immigrated from Taiwan makes it an even bigger slap in the face to the country that took them in. IMO.
What do you mean Novak never sold his representation ? Choosing an other place to make a residence with an express intent to evade / avoid taxes is what exactly ??

Jason's parents have humble beginnings and he does not have a tennis career otherwise.

And Djokovic does not have a career if he does not make Monaco his place of residence ?
 
#16
What do you mean Novak never sold his representation ? Choosing an other place to make a residence with an express intent to evade / avoid taxes is what exactly ??

Jason's parents have humble beginnings and he does not have a tennis career otherwise.

And Djokovic does not have a career if he does not make Monaco his place of residence ?
You never responded to the comment I made. You are making up an argument. I said it's the worst case of selling one's representation I've seen. You then said "how is it worse than Novak living in Monaco", which has nothing to do with what I said.

A huge proportion of tennis players come from beginnings that are far more humble than being born in California.
 
#18
Came across this:
http://ontherisetennis.blogspot.com/2015/07/jason-jung-discusses-his-journey-from.html

and there, this:
http://grantland.com/features/the-futures-is-bleak/

Doesn't sound like the USTA did anything to support him, so I don't see any reason for him not to take financial support from a country he has direct family ties to. He's not playing pro tennis otherwise.
If ordinary up and coming players face such an insurmountable financial challenge that selling one's representation is the only possible solution, why haven't more players done it? The only ones I'm aware of off the top of my head are Davydenko, Kukushkin, and Golubev. Davydenko was investigated for match fixing (he's not exactly a stand up guy) and Kazakhstan has a bad reputation for poaching other nations' athletes.

Davydenko is from Luhansk, which is practically Russia. Golubev and Kukushkin are from a region of Russia that is close to Kazakhstan. Russia and Kazakhstan were also part of the same nation when they were born.

You guys keep acting like you need to be a millionaire or prodigy to become a pro when most tennis players are from modest backgrounds.
 
Last edited:
#19
If ordinary up and coming players face such an insurmountable financial challenge that selling one's representation is the only possible solution, why haven't more players done it? The only ones I'm aware of off the top of my head are Davydenko, Kukushkin, and Golubev. Davydenko was investigated for match fixing (he's not exactly a stand up guy) and Kazakhstan has a bad reputation for poaching other nations' athletes.

Davydenko is from Luhansk, which is practically Russia. Golubev and Kukushkin are from a region of Russia that is close to Kazakhstan. Russia and Kazakhstan were also part of the same nation when they were born.

You guys keep acting like you need to be a millionaire or prodigy to become a pro when most tennis players are from modest backgrounds.
Olympics, but similar idea.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-...country-can-bring-rewards-controversy-n850811

Seems like there's stricter rules around this sort of thing in tennis:
http://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/12425312/tennis-itf-nationality-rule-evoking-angst

And weren't people here just talking about how there's no money in pro tennis outside the top 100?
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...ey-in-tennis-outside-of-top-200.636760/page-3

Stuff like this, if you're inclined to read more.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/26/sports/tennis/itf-pro-circuit-wozniak-stollar.html
 
#20
Olympics, but similar idea.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-...country-can-bring-rewards-controversy-n850811

Seems like there's stricter rules around this sort of thing in tennis:
http://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/12425312/tennis-itf-nationality-rule-evoking-angst

And weren't people here just talking about how there's no money in pro tennis outside the top 100?
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...ey-in-tennis-outside-of-top-200.636760/page-3

Stuff like this, if you're inclined to read more.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/26/sports/tennis/itf-pro-circuit-wozniak-stollar.html
I already mentioned the Olympics. Most of those athletes rep another country because they didn't make the cut in their own. The guy who won Gold in snowboarding for Russia at the Sochi Olympics never even made the American team. However, some are bought. Especially by Kazakhstan. Russia also poached some Korean skater at the Sochi Olympics. Although that skater apparently defected because he didn't qualify in 2010 due to some technicality.
 
Last edited:
#26
You never responded to the comment I made. You are making up an argument. I said it's the worst case of selling one's representation I've seen. You then said "how is it worse than Novak living in Monaco", which has nothing to do with what I said.

A huge proportion of tennis players come from beginnings that are far more humble than being born in California.
The worst case of selling reputation is where you have the means but yet you choose to evade. It is clear which player(s) belong here.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#27
Born: Torrance, CA, USA
Residence: Torrance, CA, USA
Alma Mater: University of Michigan
Representing: Taiwan

Something I'm missing? Besides his sponsor (Taiwan Mobile) I mean.
You are missing nothing. Many players play for teams abroad since getting a DC spot is very difficult in the US.

You should be more concerned about those trying to sell the US to Russians.
 
#30
You are missing nothing. Many players play for teams abroad since getting a DC spot is very difficult in the US.

You should be more concerned about those trying to sell the US to Russians.
Give an example of another player who was 1) Born in one country 2) lived his entire life in that country, but yet 3) represents another country despite never living there.

In the examples I gave above, Kukushkin and Golubev at least live in Kazakhstan. Davydenko lives in Russia. Even that Korean Skater and American snowboarder moved to Russia as well. This is the first time I've seen an athlete represent a nation that he has never even lived in. Perhaps he has vacationed there.
 
Last edited:
#31
Give an example of another player who was 1) Born in one country 2) lived his entire life in that country, but yet 3) represents another country despite never living there.

In the examples I gave above, Kukushkin and Golubev at least live in Kazakhstan. Davydenko lives in Russia. Even that Korean Skater and American snowboarder moved to Russia as well. This is the first time I've seen an athlete represent a nation that he has never even lived in. Perhaps he has vacationed there.
Djokovic born and grew up in serbia but paying no taxes there is worse

Bedene born and grew up in Slovenia but took up British Naturalizations in the hope of defecting

What about Rusedsko ? Canadian born yet represented Britain ?

Konta born and represented Australia but now representing Britain
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
#32
Give an example of another player who was 1) Born in one country 2) lived his entire life in that country, but yet 3) represents another country despite never living there.

In the examples I gave above, Kukushkin and Golubev at least live in Kazakhstan. Davydenko lives in Russia. Even that Korean Skater and American snowboarder moved to Russia as well. This is the first time I've seen an athlete represent a nation that he has never even lived in. Perhaps he has vacationed there.
Why are you so angry at Osaka's decision?

:cool:
 
#33
Djokovic born and grew up in serbia but paying no taxes there is worse

Bedene born and grew up in Slovenia but took up British Naturalizations in the hope of defecting

What about Rusedsko ? Canadian born yet represented Britain ?

Konta born and represented Australia but now representing Britain
Again you seem to have a problem with reading.
 
#34
Why are you so angry at Osaka's decision?

:cool:
I don't follow the WTA whatsoever. I was under the impression that she was born in Japan or something. I do think that what some other poster alluded to is likely here - the "Osaka Effect." East Asia has money these days and those countries want an international presence. Without many athletes of their own, they are beginning to buy players with the closest ties they can find. Kind of like how Uniqlo gave Federer an offer that no one else would bother competing with. These players complaining about lack of support reads like rationalization. Of course no one will admit to their home nation that they sold out. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
#35
I don't follow the WTA whatsoever. I was under the impression that she was born in Japan or something. I do think that what some other poster alluded to is likely here - the "Osaka Effect." East Asia is big business these days and they want an international presence. Without many athletes of their own, they are beginning to buy players with the closest ties they can find. Kind of like how Uniqlo gave Federer an offer that no one else would bother competing with. These players complaining about lack of support reads like rationalization. Of course no one will admit to their home nation that they sold out. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
The Open era has begun in 1968 (officially).

I think that that is enough time to get used to the idea, no?

:cool:
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#39
Give an example of another player who was 1) Born in one country 2) lived his entire life in that country, but yet 3) represents another country despite never living there.
That is pretty easy. Cecil Mammit.

Don't try to invent your definition of patriotism without being aware of what is really happening now. Real patriotism is not about playing Davis Cup but about following the law and not harassing people as was usually the norm of privileged groups.
 
Last edited:
#45
That is pretty easy. Cecil Mammit.

Don't try to invent your definition of patriotism without being aware of what is really happening now. Real patriotism is not about playing Davis Cup but about following the law and not harassing people as was usually the norm of privileged groups.
Easy? You sure you didn't spend the past hour frantically trying to find someone? You're so familiar with that guy that you don't even know how to spell his name.

By the way, isn't having the option to sell out and accept funding from a foreign nation (specifically one that desires international representation - and will pay for it) a privilege? Seems like he's more privileged than Americans who don't have that option.
 
Last edited:

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#46
Easy? You sure you didn't spend the past hour frantically trying to find someone? You're so familiar with that guy that you don't even know how to spell his name.

By the way, isn't having the option to sell out and accept funding from a foreign nation (specifically one that desires international representation - and will pay for it) a privilege? Seems like he's more privileged than Americans who don't have that option.
Sure is. But it is not the same privilege which is used for harassing people for centuries.
 
#47
Sure is. But it is not the same privilege which is used for harassing people for centuries.
Give it a rest. I have criticized Raonic far more than I am criticizing Jung right now. Although his case is a bit different. I am commenting in this thread largely on the increasing absurdity of national representation in sports.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#48
Give it a rest. I have criticized Raonic far more than I am criticizing Jung right now. Although his case is entirely different. I am commenting in this thread largely on the increasing absurdity of national representation in sports.
Who cares about your relative criticism balance. It is a balance only in your head.
 
#50
Born: Torrance, CA, USA
Residence: Torrance, CA, USA
Alma Mater: University of Michigan
Representing: Taiwan

Something I'm missing? Besides his sponsor (Taiwan Mobile) I mean.
Aren’t you missing Treat Huey?

Born: Washington D.C.
Residence: Alexandria, VA
Alma Mater: University of Virginia
Representing: Philippines
 
Top