Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by Hitman99, Feb 4, 2012.
Does TW use/offee the JET technique when stringing the rackets they sell on-line?
You should call them and ask but I doubt it.
As a player I can say that when TW strung my racket it played much better and the sides of mains didn't move like when my local stringer is doing. (well he can't even understand t1, 2, h4 etc... he starts and ties where he can, so it anyway a bad idea to compare). Also the strings lasted longer, I usually brake them very fast.
And as I self stringer in near future I would like to know what is JET technique?
Google is your friend. I would post the link but it would be blocked. Try searching for JayCee method of tennis string installation defined.
EDIT: TW uses Prince NEOS machine for stringing so you will soon find out why I thought TW would not offer this service if you read the article. Also they don't sell the brand of strings used by the JET method which is the key point in achieving optimal results. If you believe what they tell you.
sure they do...
^^Oops! my bad
Yeah, the Neos is not the machine of choice for small, accurate increments of tension! ROFL
Why is that?
I'm fairly familiar with JayCee, and to the greatest extent possible without paying G&G Tennis for a lesson/dealership, JET. I use it on my Ektelon H, both with and without Stringway double and tripple clamps. I haven't encountered any issues with the method.
I might be missing something, though.
Why do you say the use of a Neos would prohibit the use of the JET, assuming modified pulling technique with the lockout, as outlined on Guts and Glory's blog?
At the GSS symposium last Oct JayCee actually strung 4 racquets using the JET method on different machine types (a lockout, drop weight, LCP and Stringway). With slightly different tweeks to the technique for the LO machine he got the exact same results in each frame. So, the technique works in all machines as long as you know what you are doing.
I guess it depends on the age and condition of the machine.
The Neos I use at work is quite erratic. Turn the knob up for 1lb, it jumps 5. Turn down for 2lbs, doesnt change at all. Granted it's pretty old and tired.
Tennis Machines overhauled the tension head about a year ago. Worked well for a few weeks then the same old problem.
My apologies to the OP for contributing to a derail here but this piqued my interest. Just how did you become aware of this problem? Are you monitoring your output with a SBS meter at work or did you encounter this while trying to calibrate? If the latter, what are you using for a calibrator?
While calibrating using a standard Gamma spring calibrator.
I think the lockout lever has been damaged, also the gripper mechanism lifts and twists under tension.
The powers that be are too cheap to replace it. It was like pulling teeth to get it sent out the first time.
I didn't say using a lockout machine would prohibit the use of the JET or JayCee method. But those methods were designed to be used on a constant pull machine. Using a LO as a CP will more than likely double your time. Using those methods of stringing will also increase time with a CP. TW strings a lot of rackets and doubling the time it takes to string racket will incur more cost for TW.
Oh. Ok. That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
It's also possible the spring calibrator is the problem. My first one also came from Gamma (Tenex back then) and the internal locking nuts broke free from each other causing me to get a whole variety of readings. Easy way to tell if this has happened with yours is to hold the calibrator housing and turn the calibrator shaft. If the shaft doesn't hold position, i.e if it is screwing in and out depending on the direction you turn it, it has lost its place and is no longer reliable. Additionally, using anything other than Kevlar for calibrator leads can throw off your readings.
I would just like to confirm that it is possible to obtain the exact same results utilizing a Prince Neos. It was my machine that was used at the GSS Symposium. I would like to think stringing is not about how long it takes you but it should be about providing precise constant results for our clients.
Quality service should be the aim.
Quality service should be the aim but the OP is questioning whether TW is offering the JET technique. I would assume that if TW is now distributing L-Tec strings they have been made aware of JET. While they are offering the strings on the site though, L-Tec doesn't appear to have been added to the drop down list of string choices when you purchase a racquet. TW does offer the option to select strings that aren't on the list though so you probably can buy a racquet and have it strung with L-Tec strings. My guess is that in a high volume operation like TW where the stringers are most likely paid on a per racquet basis that they only work at one speed (fast).
How much extra do JET certified stringers charge? 50%?
Guts and Glory $20 for labor
One of the things that separates JET/L-Tec certification from other stringing methods, and even JayCee for that matter, is the idea that the stringer and player should have a relationship where the stringer observes the player on the court, communicates with the player, and helps the player arrive at the best string and tension solution, and, in some cases helps correct the players targeting. This is almost more like a coach than the traditional "what tension and what string, your racket will be ready in an hour (or tomorrow)" paradigm. This is, in part part, why there are so many L-Tec string options, and why L-tec certification from Guts and Glory is so expensive; you're learning not only how to string correctly, but how to work with players to get them what they really want/need. At least, that's the idea.
I highly doubt it. I wager few if any of their stringers at TW have the knowledge or skill to correctly string a racquet using any of JayCee's methods. There is a great difference between an average racquet stringer and a true craftsman of the trade.
TW employs racquet stringers not craftsman, they are looking to churn out string jobs as fast as possible, I have had numerous racquets brought to me to restring that had mis-weaves in the crosses, racquets bought and strung from TW.
Tennis warehouse has great customer service and products, but their racquet stringing service leaves something to be desired.
They have a video up of a couple of their stringers(young kids) racing to see who can string the fastest. Show me someone that brags about how fast they can string and I will show you someone who is just a racquet stringer.
JET another way to sell LTEC strings
Can we get a reply from TW about above poster comments?
I haven't had major problem with tw stringing service.
Only minor issue with a string pulled through grommet which i tubed and a free replacement sent on next order. Good customer service.
I will say that tw should by now have upgraded from all the older neos machines, my local sports store made the $$$ move to babolats in early-mid 00's.
I'm very skeptical about time cost benefits of GG Jet technique. Add in fact they pulled the jaycee pdf from the web and now charge a crazy amount for "training".
Makes it look more like a gimmick to sell LTEC strings and customer shoe fit system.
90% of players have no idea about stringing or properties/benefits of particular strings.
They're in a dropoff/pickup rush and don't have time to listen to 5+ minutes speeches.
Other 10% will either be stringing for themselves/family or hand over a reel/tension and half dozen racquets.
I believe an oncourt coach could provide better advice about best string "fit" than LTEC "certified" stringer.
No customer will pay cent extra for GG "LTEC" method.
I respect john, but all his talk about elevating the stringer to position of trust and prestige is a con.
..have been stringing for 30+ years. Strung professionally and now for clientele who I consider friends. There is always a new gimmick...
Will see if it stands the test of time. Proportional stringing comes to mind...has benefits for some, but less than 1% are done that way....
The Wilson stringing team at the Australian Open. But they were not really bragging it was the TV moderators that was doing that. I am sure they are confident enough with their stringing knowledge and skills that they would brag. If I could string a racket in under 7 minutes I would be bragging too. I doubt there are more than a handful of people in the world could do that.
Stringing a tennis racket does not require much knowledge and skill. Seems like someone is asking for the pattern for a racket all the time. It they had the knowledge to string the racket they would never have to ask. Stringing a tennis racket in less 7 minutes requires a great deal of knowledge and skill.
I've ordered only 2 rackets, and they felt very good. I'm not a stringer just waiting for an order, but there was no missed weaves for me. It was the best stringing quality I've experienced. However I can understand that I'm talking about 2 rackets only, and int. shipping, maybe they have better quality control for int. due to return (shipping) problems. However, I hope everyone gets the best from TW stringing service as It doesn't matter where the customer lives.
The complete JayCee method is still available for free, courtesy of G&G Tennis.
Keep in mind, the stringing is only part of the equation. Much, if not most, of the training is aimed at helping the stringer know how to help their player.
There are plenty of stringers that are fast but oblivious to the little details that make the difference between a quality job and a simple restring.
I too thought I was good at one time just because I could weave fast, a stringer can become fast quickly, but it takes skill, experience and know how to learn how to string a racquet and avoid little errors that add up in the end.
I can teach someone how to string the Jaycee method in an hour, but if they still have flaws in their basic technique, it defeats the purpose of the method in the first place. The method is designed to eliminate tension loss in the stringing process, so a stringer has to be pretty good with his technique to not make errors that defeat the purpose of the process in the first place.
lsmkenpo, great post.
irvin, you are right that stringing a racquet does not require much knowledge or skill assuming you don't care about the end result. you can train a kid to do this. however, i agree w/ lsmkenpo that stringing a racquet with the goal to minimize tension loss is an art and a skill that is not easy to master. it's not even something that can be mastered with more repetition and practice. there needs to be a true understanding of what john elliot is trying to accomplish with his JET method before you can focus on the correct things to improve upon. if you don't know what will help you minimize tension, you'll be practicing the same techniques that allow you to lose tension in the first place so you get very proficient at stringing w/ tension loss. it's similar to strokes. if your forehand technique is flawed, you can practice all you want, but you'll just be getting better at hitting the forehand wrong.
I've been using the JET method stringing my kblade tour using a klippermate for the last few months.
At least I thought I was until I read the Guts and Glory page. Now I'm confused - the way I was doing it was similar to the guts and glory page, but I never skipped a hole and then go back to it and double pull. That bit is new to me.
I would just increase and decrease the tensions on the mains and crosses, as instructed, and I'd press down on the mains individually before doing the crosses.
Any advice here? Will skipping the holes in the guts and glory guide work on any racquet/grommet set up?
Skipping the 7th main may work. By skipping the 7th main on a 16 main racket they are getting the 7th main (last main) closer to the tie off hole which they want to be 6h if your mains end at the head. Take this racket for instance:
I would not tie off in that O Port, so your only alternative is to tie off on the 8th main.
There are 2 reasons for the hole skips in JET: 1) put the tieoff closer to the last string exit, to reduce the amount of un-tensioned string between the knot and last clamp 2) to make good use of the Stringway Tripple clamp-- on the last mains, running the string with the skips puts the tensioned string in the middle of the clamp, which reduce drawback via twist to near-zero. It's probably not strictly necessary if you don't use a Stringway Tripple clamp, but I tend to do it anyway, even if I'm using fixed clamps, for the sake of continuity.
What holes you skip and where you tie off have a lot to do with where the large stock grommets are-- some rackets don't need skips to get a close tieoff, others really need it.
Is this technique approved by manufacturers?
Will they reject a warranty claim on seeing flared non regulation tie off holes?
you still tie off at the holes the manufacturer specifies.
Not always, I don't think, depends on where the specified tieoffs are relative to the last string before the knot. I believe that's the reason for enlarging the holes with the awl in the instructions, but maybe I'm missing something. Dunno if that'll void warranties or not.
possibly...but i don't skip the 2nd to the last main on every stick just because it's in JayCee's instructions. i only do this if the 2nd to the last main is closer to the specified tie off and i still tie off at the manufacturer specified point. if the final main happens to be closer to the specified tie off, then that's the last string i tension. but i'm not stringing on a stringway machine w/ floating clamps which could be the reason why i haven't encountered any exceptions yet. or i just haven't strung enough different racquets yet.
JET Method for stringing on a CP with fixed clamps
Here it is in a nut-shell, detailled instructions for the type of machine that is used by most of the stringers in tennis shops and Pro-shops.
As you rightly say "the technique works in all machines as long as you know what you are doing" - with the following instructions, it should be easier to learn how to do it.
To make the most of it, stringers can join us at the GSS Symposium, late September this year in Saddlebrook, Tampa, FL.
This presentation of the JET Method for a CP electronic machine with fixed-clamps, has just been posted on the GGTennis Blog. There's more to this way of stringing than just lowering the tensions to less than 50lbs. the overall approach to stringing a racquet is fundamentally quite different from the most frequently used methods of stringing mono-filament and hybrid strings.
JET Method - your Online Guide to How and Why?
Many of our blog followers are likely aware that Tennis Warehouse has picked up L-TEC Premium strings to make available to internet customers. The purpose of today’s blog entry is to give those who are purchasing L-TEC Premium strings online the means to string them so that they can achieve the best possible results. Toward this end we are proud to present the JET Method of stringing for constant pull stringing machines using fixed clamps.
The JET Method of stringing combined with L-TEC Premium strings provide players with an equipment advantage delivering the best possible on-court results.
There are 3 major components of the method that should be implemented in unison to achieve optimal results.
Analyzing and calculating the player’s ideal string bed tension.
Choosing the best L-TEC Premium string(s) to improve the player’s game.
Applying the exact set tensions and the JET Method of stringing to achieve the precise overall string-bed tension required by the player.
There is a very precise methodology and tools that allow the stringer to string at lower tensions. The stringing technique/method preserves the elasticity of the string and ultimately allows the string bed to hold the desirable playing properties for an extended period of time.
REFERENCE TENSION :
Twenty-four hours after stringing a racquet the overall string-bed tension will measure from -4lbs to -6lbs lower than the tension that was originally set on the machine.
After 1 hour of play there will be a further loss of tension of at least -2lbs.
The JET Method of stringing progressively increases the overall string-bed tension up to 3lbs higher than the SET Tension on the machine for a 16*19 string pattern and up to 5lbs higher for a 18*20 string-pattern.
Therefore, to obtain a similar overall string-bed tension when using the JET Method, the Reference SET tension should be reduced from -7lbs to -10lbs depending on the machine and the string-pattern. The Reference SET Tension on the machine is much lower, but the feeling of stiffness in the string-bed will be quite comparable. The vastly improved comfort, power, control and spin, as well as the capacity to hold tension and maintain an initial playability for much longer than usual stringing methods, are the most evident advantages of the JET Method of stringing.
RACQUET PREPARATION :
If necessary, carefully use an awl to enlargen the grommet holes on #6 main (16 main pattern) or #7 main (18 main pattern) for tie-off. (This will be either top or bottom depending on where main strings end.)
Enlargen the grommet hole on the third cross from bottom of frame for tie-off. (Depending on pattern, this can sometimes vary. The objective is to tie-off as close to the 2nd to last cross as possible).
MAIN STRINGS :
String first four center mains on each side at reference tension.
Next 2 (on 16 mains) or 3 (on 18 mains) reduce tension by -4lbs.
On a 16 main pattern after pulling main #6 skip over to #8. Increase tension +4lbs (to reference tension) before tensioning. (#8 will be pulled at reference tension). On an 18 main pattern after pulling #7 skip over to #9. Increase tension +4lbs before tensioning.
Fill-in main #7 (on a 16 main or #8 on an 18 main) which will be the last main. Adjust tension by adding an additional 4lbs (reference tension +4lbs.)
Tie off on main #6 (16 mains) or #7 (18 mains).
CROSS STRINGS :
IMPORTANT: Each cross string must be held under tension at least 20 seconds before clamping off. We recommend weaving the next cross while the previous one remains under tension.
Start first three cross strings at same tension applied to the last main string tensionned before tie-off on each side. (+4lbs over the reference tension)
After installing 3rd cross string, reduce tension -6lbs and install the rest of the cross strings (This will be reference tension –2lbs)
After stringing 3rd last cross, loop over and weave final cross. Increase tension +6lbs.
For last cross string fill in second from bottom. Tie off on 3rd cross from the bottom.
Always give professional finish by straightening strings using The String Thing!
Some points to keep in mind :
This presentation of the JET Method is intended for stringers using an electronic constant pull stringing machine with fixed clamps.
In the quest for stringing perfection, this is not the ideal stringing machine. However, by using the JET Method conscientiously the results can be remarkably good.
If you have the choice of pulling speeds, always select the slowest.
Wait 5 seconds before clamping off each main and a minimum of 20 seconds before clamping each of the crosses. (weave in the following cross whilst the previous cross is being tensionned, this can save a lot of time).
To become a competant stringer capable of giving top quality string-jobs when applying the JET Method requires many hours to learn and to practice this craft. It is necessary to control the results obtained string by string with a Stringmeter to understand where you are losing tension and where you need to improve your techniques to overcome these weaknesses in your way of working.
To aim for the end results on the court for your player requires strong motivation and real passion for your profession. Without your will to improve as a stringer and the capacity to put into question your habits in the way you have been stringing for years, you will not be able to acquire the efficiency in this craft necessary to obtain JET Method Certification. You may well improve your results for your players and that would be a very good start, it may even encourage you to continue to learn to become a much better stringer, even a craftsman. Now it's up to you!
My machine is Gamma 6900 ELS. Is there any chance to damage tensioner by pulling tension 20 seconds? I am not very comfortable to hold tension 20 seconds.
This is a really interesting thread --- never dreamed it would morph into such an in-depth discussion.
As another poster has noted, I just assumed that if TW was offering the L-Tec strings, they would also offer the ancillary services that complement the string --- the JET stringing technique, stroke analysis, etc.
Since my original, somewhat naive post, I have learned a ton about strings, stringing technique, and the ongoing dialog and controversy about this subject. What a revelation!
I was taught this pattern two years ago.
Quite frankly, I wasn't impressed with the overall results. The strings still lost tension relative to what they were losing with other patterns, no extra playability, power, control, or spin.
Its basically another type of proportional stringing method.
Which is correct?
The set tension for the pull on the last main before tying-off.
This is a good question that would be better answered by Gamma Tech.
The JET Method for electronic CP machines with fixed clamps is for professional applications, as noted in the introduction "detailled instructions for the type of machine that is used by most of the stringers in tennis shops and Pro-shops".
With electronic machines conceived and manufactured for professional use there are no risks of damage to the electric motor because of extended pulling time. The motors most frequently used today are originally made for wind-screen wipers in cars, they can run intermittantly all day for years, without problems.
For electric "hobby machines" I would not be confident, already the problems with the motors are far too frequent even when used occasionally. Therefore, I would not recommend longer pulling times for these cheap machines, the end results will not be better, the lack of consistancy in applying the tension to the strings will do more harm than good.
A good quality drop weight is far more efficient and without risk, niether for the machine nor for the strings and the frames. JayCee's prefers to string with a SW automatic drop weight machine with flying clamps, simple, fast and very accurate. (I have 2 SW mechanic CP machines : ML.100 and MS.200).
My mistake I read it wrong.
EDIT: No I didn't you said to string the 8th main is at reference tension and the 7th main is reference +4 on both side. Then you said start the first three crosses at the same tension as the last two mains (on each side.) Well the last two mains on each side are different.
Forget JB it I got the answer. G&G changed their instructions it now says for the top three crosses, "Start first three cross strings and tension at same tension as final mains. (+4 over reference tension)"
If the instruction is not clear for you, it could be even worse for others, so I have changed the phrase as follows :
"Start first three cross strings at same tension applied to the last main string tensionned before tie-off on each side. (+4lbs over the reference tension)"
For me that's less confusing, is that better for you?
Thanks for your interest and help, if there is anything else which can be improved on, please let me know, I will try to help sort it out.
Yes that is better. The stringer has to realize on a 16 main racket the 6th, 7th, and 8th mains are strung in this order 6th, 8th, and 7th.
The tension on those three strings will be Ref-4, Ref, and Ref+4. The top three crosses will also be strung the same as the 7th main (last main strung) at Ref+4. Then the crosses will drop to Ref-2 until you get to the bottom and last crosses which are tensioned at Ref+4.
That seems to be confusing enough. LOL
One thing that is really never mentioned is this should always be done with two piece stringing no matter where the mains end.
OK, so my routine reference tension is 54/52. SO, using the JET method I would use 46/44 (-8lbs) (CP). Keeping the same 2 lbs difference between x's and m's??
Is that correct??
^^I am going to bet that is a big no but let's let someone else chime in that knows more about it. Seems like everyone wants to modify the JET Method to suit their particular situation and still call it the JET Method.
The above method was for a CP with fixed clamps which is what you have.
Yes it is . . .
Go for it and tell us how it plays.
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