Jo-Wilfried Tsonga: “Rafael Nadal, shouldn’t we say he’s spoiled?”

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't tking he have something against Nadal, just tired by french medias...

Do the French players know how to hurt themselves enough to win?

Tsonga:
“Me, I won a silver medal in games with a broken finger (in my 2012 husband in London, editor’s note)… That’s not the root of the problem. We always say French players are rotten. I, I am not spoiled rotten! I come from the countryside, My father is an immigrant, my parents have always lived by religion. I grew up an upbringing that was not strict and rigid, but straight. Today who is predetermined? A little man, left home alone, but who was the fifth in the world, who reached the final of a Grand Slam, and who is today an investor ??Rafa, his uncle was a great player from Barcelona, his father is a famous businessman, they live in a place where the sea is right below his room, he has a tennis court in his garden, we don’t say he’s spoiled?, They always come to break us, to tell us we’re not okay, we have no brains.. .”


Rafa's family has never had a tennis court at home.
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
Meh… I basically think the extent of Nadal’s injuries as they relate to his long term health are overrated, while his injuries as they relate to his short term (match by match) health are somewhat underrated.
Tsonga had glass ankles and had multiple setbacks after his best seasons of ‘08-11.

i just don’t think the whole “most injured man in tennis” moniker is a fair representation of Rafa’s situation when you compare him, a 21 Slam winner to players who have actually had their careers ruined by injury. That’s all I meant by it.
I hear you and - as you know - people from both "sides" exaggerate in both directions.

I do think Rafa's (congenital?) foot injury has been a constant, and has resulted in a variety of other pains/injuries as well. I also think he has a high tolerance level for "suffering", if at times exaggerated.

But yeah, Delpo might say "hold my wrist", and we can probably name a few more talented players whose careers were detailed by injuries.
 

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
Cry me a river...

Should somebody tell him about all the players that had success from much tougher upbringings than his?

If he really wanted the success, all he had to do was work harder because the talent was certainly there....
 
And I might argue that a rich guy like Rafa with a boat and other luxuries at his disposal from childhood had no monetary incentive to put in grueling work to become a pro.

It's not less commendable when such a person puts in effort for personal greatness instead of enjoying family fortunes

I don't think talent/determination to achieve something/chase a passion has anything to do with being rich/poor, the distractions are only distractions for the weak minded whose desire to achieve something is not firm. The firm minded will never waver from their end goal, plus Nadal seems like an obedient kid who listened to his seniors and always was level headed from childhood days, some people are like that, others get distracted. For a focused individual his ancestral wealthj and family backing can only be an added advantage compared to those who did not have that, Tennis is a costly sport that not everyone can afford as a career you know, one has to be really sure that they are extremely good or you need to be wealthy to have something else to fall back to, in case of Nadal he was both.
 

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
I hear you and - as you know - people from both "sides" exaggerate in both directions.

I do think Rafa's (congenital?) foot injury has been a constant, and has resulted in a variety of other pains/injuries as well. I also think he has a high tolerance level for "suffering", if at times exaggerated.

But yeah, Delpo might say "hold my wrist", and we can probably name a few more talented players whose careers were detailed by injuries.
Raul, as usual you are too good for the mess that is GPPD discussions. Cheers.
 

TripleATeam

G.O.A.T.
No-whack disagrees firmly. Grew up in a war torn country, the risk he took to play in those days could've easily got him killed or became a handicapped person by one of the many bombs fired by NATO, but he mentally held himself together.
Succeed less often, not never succeed. Notice how 2/3 of the Big 3 grew up outside those conditions in quite wealthy families. And Novak's wasn't poor either (by Serbian standards).
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
It's not less commendable when such a person puts in effort for personal greatness instead of enjoying family fortunes
Like Lord Gulbis!

Ernests-Gulbis-1002927.jpg
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
They don’t make youngsters like they used to. Medvedev and Shapo can’t even beat a geriatric broken body Nadal, Tsonga annihilated a Peakdal.
A 21 years old "peakdal" with 0 Slam finals on hard to that point.

Anyhow, a very young, pre-peak Nadal annihilating Tsonga at the USO 2007:

 
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JustMy2Cents

Hall of Fame
No one said it was. Nadal put in the effort, obviously, but he had things at his disposal Tsonga never would've had. The only thing Nadal needed was motivation and effort, whereas someone lower class would've needed motivation, effort, and the cash to start off - leading to more risks/perhaps less effective training.

Nadal's path had fewer obstacles, but he still had to run its entire length. His monstrous effort combined with good genetics are the main factors for his success, but privilege helped him at the start.
I get where you are coming from.
But most top guys including Fed [probably Tsonga and his peers too] have come through the Tennis Federations of their country. All training and tourney bills are footed by those bodies. And there is a group of experts at disposal
Rafa was also offered the scholarship from Barcelona but his family decided to keep him home and his dad footed the bills. I don't know if having an inexperienced Toni alone was as good as having the group of experts from the federation
 

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
I read the original declaration and there's no big differences, but for context Tsonga is a little overwhelmed for years by the medias who said that the frenchs players are spoiled, dn"t work enough, are sometimes out of shape, no mental, and that if if they train seriously, they could beat players like Nadal or Djokovic and in GS.

Yeah Monfils also addressed this once saying if he had it in him to win RG, he would have done it already. That it is not due to lack of efforts.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
A 21 years old "peakdal" with 0 Slam finals on hard to that point.

Anyhow, a very young, pre-peak Nadal annihilating Tsonga at the USO 2007:

Do you think it's the first time I've seen those highlights of that, apparently, forgotten meeting between the two?
;)
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Yeah Monfils also addressed this once saying if he had it in him to win RG, he would have done it already. That it is not due to lack of efforts.

But this a bit of an exaggeration. Just this year as old as he is, he's matched his best run at the AO. He seems more invested than he's ever been. Sometimes you have to grab life by the horns.
 

MugOpponent

Hall of Fame
French tennis players have earned their reputation. It's up to them to change that on the court, not with press interviews.
 

TripleATeam

G.O.A.T.
I get where you are coming from.
But most top guys including Fed [probably Tsonga and his peers too] have come through the Tennis Federations of their country. All training and tourney bills are footed by those bodies. And there is a group of experts at disposal
Rafa was also offered the scholarship from Barcelona but his family decided to keep him home and his dad footed the bills. I don't know if having an inexperienced Toni alone was as good as having the group of experts from the federation
True. My point was more in their early stages, before the national agencies come into it. Getting into a sport early is important, and a racquet is a somewhat large investment in many places for many families.

It's possible Nadal did also stunt his early career by going his route. We'll never know, but clearly it seems to have paid off! More power to him for it!
 

Cupcake

Hall of Fame
Tsonga career prize money - $22,395,097, plus endorsements.

He might not have attained as much title-wise as he wanted, but he did pretty well as someone with a disadvantaged upbringing. And he still has the second half of his life to live.
 

PURETENNISsense

Professional
Did Tsonga work as hard as Nadal?
Most experts doubt it.
And how does anyone know this for sure?

How do you measure "working hard" for each individual player?

Measuring one players work ethic against another is not possible.... of course basic fundamentals of work ethic like hrs pit in for training, gym, recovery, etc are basic.... which every player does to a degree.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't live in France so I can't contradict Tsonga's interpretation of what French players are accused of but I doubt that it's anything to do with a privileged upbringing. Privilege works the other way round. People like Gulbis who come from well to do families don't often work hard despite their talent.
 
D

Deleted member 788697

Guest
And how does anyone know this for sure?

How do you measure "working hard" for each individual player?

Measuring one players work ethic against another is not possible.... of course basic fundamentals of work ethic like hrs pit in for training, gym, recovery, etc are basic.... which every player does to a degree.
Nadal's style of play requires hard work and supreme fitness..... while Tsonga's style of play allows you to save energy (big serving and rushed winners/errors).
 

tex123

Hall of Fame
I don't tking he have something against Nadal, just tired by french medias...

Do the French players know how to hurt themselves enough to win?

Tsonga:
“Me, I won a silver medal in games with a broken finger (in my 2012 husband in London, editor’s note)… That’s not the root of the problem. We always say French players are rotten. I, I am not spoiled rotten! I come from the countryside, My father is an immigrant, my parents have always lived by religion. I grew up an upbringing that was not strict and rigid, but straight. Today who is predetermined? A little man, left home alone, but who was the fifth in the world, who reached the final of a Grand Slam, and who is today an investor ??Rafa, his uncle was a great player from Barcelona, his father is a famous businessman, they live in a place where the sea is right below his room, he has a tennis court in his garden, we don’t say he’s spoiled?, They always come to break us, to tell us we’re not okay, we have no brains.. .”

Mr Tsonga I have news for you. When you win, you can write your history. Ever heard of winners write their history of hard work and dedication? Rafa has 21 Slams - one of the greatest ever to play the game. Now tell me what you achieved Mr Tsonga?

No one remembers runner ups. Yes you were an immigrant. Yes you worked hard but maybe not as hard or smart as Nadal or made bad choices?. Yes you are French. But you won squat. I hear you but I'm not moved.

BTW Djokovic grew up in war torn country practicing in disused swimming pools. How did he win 20 slams?
 

Heliath

Rookie
Take Nadal and Gasquet who grew up in tennis together and were a match for each other. Gasquet was touted to be the next best thing but his career never really took off. He sometimes looks like he can't be bothered to try.

Pretty much everyone looks like a mug compared to Nadal lol. But Gasquet has had a very successful career, the guy made over 19 million dollars in prize money playing tennis, been in the top 10 4 or 5 years, 15 titles. He has been better than 99%+ players that tried to be professionals.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Pretty much everyone looks like a mug compared to Nadal lol. But Gasquet has had a very successful career, the guy made over 19 million dollars in prize money playing tennis, been in the top 10 4 or 5 years, 15 titles. He has been better than 99%+ players that tried to be professionals.
Gasquet was supposed to be at the top of the tree not an 'also ran' as they say in horse racing.
 

PURETENNISsense

Professional
Nadal's style of play requires hard work and supreme fitness..... while Tsonga's style of play allows you to save energy (big serving and rushed winners/errors).
Yup, you are right. Guess that sums up how to assess hard work for a pro player...

I'm not saying Tsonga works hard.... I have no idea. I'm simply saying what's the metric besides "results" to determine this conclusion?

I've coached college tennis and seen many players who work their butts off but lose to the more pure striking "Nadal" type player because they are outclassed not out-fitnessed.

Again, not comparing college to pros.... Just looking at the other side of it.
 

MadariKatu

Hall of Fame
Nadal is nowhere near as injury prone as Jo has been throughout his whole career, especially in the beginning of it.
So Nadal is spoiled because Tsonga was even more injury prone? Sorry, I don't follow the logic here.
I could understand someone calling him spoiled if he trained/played like Kyrgios (not saying that Kyrgios is spoiled, that's not my point). But regardless of his privileged situation (since his childhood), Nadal has worked his ass off. And regarding injuries, he has had more than his fair share of them, and with his success and age, he could have retired long ago, yet he worked to come back time and time again.

I understand that without those privileges, he might not have been there, but I would never call a hard worker spoiled.
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
what is the implication here? that his underprivileged world around him restricted him from reaching his second slam final? good luck trying to convince people to believe that bull......
 
No one said it was. Nadal put in the effort, obviously, but he had things at his disposal Tsonga never would've had. The only thing Nadal needed was motivation and effort, whereas someone lower class would've needed motivation, effort, and the cash to start off - leading to more risks/perhaps less effective training.

Nadal's path had fewer obstacles, but he still had to run its entire length. His monstrous effort combined with good genetics are the main factors for his success, but privilege helped him at the start.
Nadal didn't need as much money as you may think, since his uncle was coaching him for free (or for very little money).
 

smash hit

Professional
Nadal is nowhere near as injury prone as Jo has been throughout his whole career, especially in the beginning of it.
Nadal started his career playing with a broken finger "Competing in the Spanish U14 national championships, he broke his finger in a first-round match. He won the tournament anyways, gripping the racquet with his four good fingers, his pinkie dangling" https://www.ubitennis.net/2020/11/n...a-broken-finger-has-become-a-timeless-legend/

In 2005 he was diagnosed with Mueller-Weiss Syndrome and told his career was finished almost before it had started. The insoles that he had to use to help his foot problem unfortunately started causing problems in his knees back and hips. I find it difficult to say he was less injury prone because he had the aforementioned problems plus the injuries that many players have to contend with..

I am assuming that Jo Wilfred Tsonga will be able to look forward to a relatively normal life off court, mobility wise. Nadal's future in that regard is uncertain . As M.W.S . progresses his mobility will very likely be badly affected leaving him unable to walk. His former coach has recently said that Nadal will have to undergo major surgery which will allow him to walk, but not run, consequently career over.
 
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