John Invadale apologizes for Bartoli insult

PetSounds

Rookie
He said (going by memory) "she's not a good athlete, it's good to see a real tennis player win, she can really wield that racquet, she waves it around like an artist weaves a paintbrush".

It was right at the end so when the match is up on youtube we can check if you like?
Here is the quote:
"It's so nice to see someone who was born to be a tennis player. She's not necessarily the most natural athlete you will ever see, but someone who wields a racquet like a paintbrush and she did her own version of Picasso - it was unexpected and amazing.
"She couldn't possibly have thought at any stage that she would have been able to pull off a Grand Slam victory or a Wimbledon triumph.
"It absolutely will inspire millions who will all be thinking, 'Hey, anything is possible!'."

If she wields a racquet like a paintbrush, why was it so unexpected and amazing?
Why couldn't she have possibly thought at any stage she would win a Grand Slam?
Why would millions of non-athlete, non-tennis players now think anything is possible?

Litmus test: Would he have said the same thing about Lisicki winning?
Answer: No
 
Here is the quote:
"It's so nice to see someone who was born to be a tennis player. She's not necessarily the most natural athlete you will ever see, but someone who wields a racquet like a paintbrush and she did her own version of Picasso - it was unexpected and amazing.
"She couldn't possibly have thought at any stage that she would have been able to pull off a Grand Slam victory or a Wimbledon triumph.
"It absolutely will inspire millions who will all be thinking, 'Hey, anything is possible!'."

If she wields a racquet like a paintbrush, why was it so unexpected and amazing?
Why couldn't she have possibly thought at any stage she would win a Grand Slam?
Why would millions of non-athlete, non-tennis players now think anything is possible?

Litmus test: Would he have said the same thing about Lisicki winning?
Answer: No
Tobe fair to that comment, she is not a natural athlete in the sense she is not blessed with great, speed, strength, height or stamina. I think they go over the top, but it goes to show that there is not one distinct type of physique that makes you a top class sportsman. So eve if you are not naturally fast, or strong, or fit, you can still find your niche in sport and become great at it.
 

BeHappy

Hall of Fame
Here is the quote:
"It's so nice to see someone who was born to be a tennis player. She's not necessarily the most natural athlete you will ever see, but someone who wields a racquet like a paintbrush and she did her own version of Picasso - it was unexpected and amazing.
"She couldn't possibly have thought at any stage that she would have been able to pull off a Grand Slam victory or a Wimbledon triumph.
"It absolutely will inspire millions who will all be thinking, 'Hey, anything is possible!'."

If she wields a racquet like a paintbrush, why was it so unexpected and amazing?
Why couldn't she have possibly thought at any stage she would win a Grand Slam?
Why would millions of non-athlete, non-tennis players now think anything is possible?

Litmus test: Would he have said the same thing about Lisicki winning?
Answer: No
Because Lisicki is a great athlete? Tall and strong and serves 125mph with a huge bludgeoning forehand? Bartoli needed to use angles more.
 

lpth

New User
I think this is the problem. It's just like watching football with women, if you show them amazing skill by Ronaldinho or Rooney they just say how ugly they are because they don't like football.

In the same way, when men watch WTA we just look at the women a lot of the time.
And we do it and don't insult anyone although if I knew my wife would be bothered by it I would stop...

Invadale is a professional, he is payed for doing that, he has responsibilities and what he did was a failure
 

PetSounds

Rookie
McEnroe did a fair comment, he judged an athlete regardless of gender by his physical build
I agree he was commenting on her build, not her speed.

He seemed to be bending over backwards to complement her in spite of herself.
Both comments two sides of the same coin, in my opinion. John's an old hand at this though.
 

lpth

New User
If she wields a racquet like a paintbrush, why was it so unexpected and amazing?
Why couldn't she have possibly thought at any stage she would win a Grand Slam?
Why would millions of non-athlete, non-tennis players now think anything is possible?

Litmus test: Would he have said the same thing about Lisicki winning?
Answer: No
Cause Bartoli is totally unique and totally the opposite of a stereotype
she is not a physically impressive athlete, she has unorthodox technique, she has a very original attitude in court, and even her coach is different not cause its her father but cause he's a province doctor
Although very subjective in my mind Lisicki is more stereotypical Grand Slam winner, why? cause she is more plain, less original, and Bartoli is very unique.
 

lpth

New User
He seemed to be bending over backwards to complement her in spite of herself.
Both comments two sides of the same coin, in my opinion. John's an old hand at this though.
If so then he should stick with commenting men tennis.

Again the issue is very simple, if someone in any way regardless of gender sees women tennis as less then he/she should not do professional commenting

Anyone has the right to dislike the WTA just don't put them commenting

And these applies to everything.
Who would put a environmentalist commenting a F1 or Nascar racing?
 

Jonerfun

New User
During the whole broadcast it felt like the commentators were trying to avoid (pardon the expression) 'the elephant in the room' that is Bartoli's weight, whenever talking about Bartoli.
Only JMac broached the subject saying "She's not necessarily the most natural athlete you will ever see" right at the end of the programme.
 

diggler

Professional
Ok, he shouldn't have said it on radio, but was it an unreasonable comment?

“Do you think Bartoli’s dad told her when she was little 'You’re never going to be a looker? You’ll never be a Sharapova, so you have to be scrappy and fight.’”

First of all, she doesn't look like Sharapova. How many times has she appeared in the Guys only: best legs and other best female issues thread? Not many I guess.

Secondly, if you did have a daughter who didn't look like a model, what would you tell her? Wouldn't it be reasonable to say that you have to work hard or study.
 

Tcbtennis

Hall of Fame
Ok, he shouldn't have said it on radio, but was it an unreasonable comment?

“Do you think Bartoli’s dad told her when she was little 'You’re never going to be a looker? You’ll never be a Sharapova, so you have to be scrappy and fight.’”

First of all, she doesn't look like Sharapova. How many times has she appeared in the Guys only: best legs and other best female issues thread? Not many I guess.

Secondly, if you did have a daughter who didn't look like a model, what would you tell her? Wouldn't it be reasonable to say that you have to work hard or study.
I will cut you a little slack since it is obvious based on your statement that you are young and are not a parent. But that is the most ridiculous, ignorant statement that any loving father could ever say to a daughter. Any loving father looks at his daughter and sees the most beautiful girl in the world.

As I watched the finals of both the women's and men's finals there were many instances where the TV showed the people in the crowd. 99.99% of the crowd were not "model" worthy and apparently their parents must have not been "model" worthy. So I guess that the British audience is worthless and the only way to make it is to work hard and study. So stupid.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Well, I don't think she's a "looker" either, but I hardly agree with a comment like this being made, and beauty is subjective anyway. He was asking for trouble with a comment like this and he rightfully got it. Some things are best left unsaid even if they are what you really think.
 

snowwhite

Professional
I just read that Bartoli's father made her play right-handed when she is a lefty? Why the hell did he do that? It probably would have been a great advantage for her.
He was inspired by Monica Seles at French Open 1992 after a classic final against Graf, that's when he decided to teach her double handed FH/BH. Previously , she had trouble with a forehand till her father taught her the techinque.
 

chatt_town

Hall of Fame
Exactly...I'm curious to why he felt the need to say that...I wonder what he thinks of schiavone or Radek Stepenek.....

Well, I don't think she's a "looker" either, but I hardly agree with a comment like this being made, and beauty is subjective anyway. He was asking for trouble with a comment like this and he rightfully got it. Some things are best left unsaid even if they are what you really think.
 

chatt_town

Hall of Fame
Yea, but to add to that point when they did zero in on anyone it was Murray's girlfriend. I bet they showed her more today than they have Federer's since 2002 or whenever he started seeing her. We shouldn't be surprised though. If the camera people were women, they would only zero on men that had money or power...so it's just the way it is. Beautiful women get all the the camera shots. The only ugly woman they zeroed on today was that none other than Murray's mom and they had to show her I guess. Look at the match today and tell me that you see them zero in on Mirka(sp) as much as they do this Kim girl. They showed her walking out of the stadium and she's not a coach or not even his wife. She's a girlfriend and she's more camera time than Federer's wife and she's been with him a long time.


I will cut you a little slack since it is obvious based on your statement that you are young and are not a parent. But that is the most ridiculous, ignorant statement that any loving father could ever say to a daughter. Any loving father looks at his daughter and sees the most beautiful girl in the world.

As I watched the finals of both the women's and men's finals there were many instances where the TV showed the people in the crowd. 99.99% of the crowd were not "model" worthy and apparently their parents must have not been "model" worthy. So I guess that the British audience is worthless and the only way to make it is to work hard and study. So stupid.
 

sarmpas

Hall of Fame
Inverdale is right although some things should not be said in public especially when working for the BBC.
 

chatt_town

Hall of Fame
They have money...That's all women care about...Arod's teammate is starting to look kind of wild to but nothing will be said about him either and he routinely will fly women in for a one night banging and them give them a signed baseball the next morning....it became news when he forgot he had did a woman...invited her up again and he gave her the same gift when he got done putting her out the next morning...Derek Geter is whom I'm speaking of. Stepanek has caught hell on this board for not being a "looker".lol Go read the "books that would never sale" thread.lol


Stepanek has never been called ugly and nobody noticed ARod going bald!
 

chatt_town

Hall of Fame
That's only because most of them are men...and it wouldn't make sense for a man to be sitting in the both talking about how broad Dwight Howard's shoulders are. I promise you this. Most women that watch him play could care less about his footwork in the paint or what his averages are. They watch for the enjoyment of looking at him. So women don't need to complain too much. I mean the guy shouldn't have said that on T.V. but it is what it is.


No I wasn't saying women are more judged by their appearance than men, I was saying sports presenters don't talk about male footballers attractiveness and it should be the same with female tennis players.

Yeah I think we are actually in agreement.
 

Peters

Professional
Bit embarrassing for the BBC - considering they're the official broadcasters of the event. I bet he's getting a bollocking for this behind closed doors.
 

Vanhool

Legend
One reason people get more upset about women's looks being commented on than men's is that there is a deep underlying current of misogyny in society. People might make rude comments about the way Murray looks, but I doubt he twittersphere has anything nearly as vile as the comments about Bartoli that were in the link that was posted earlier. Those were absolutely disgusting.

Even though what this Inverdale guy said was not in the same league as those awful comments, women know what kind of crap that kind of attitude supports. Men know, too, but it doesn't affect them personally so it's easier to to think of those comments as aberrations than as part of a reality they have to live with.

For the record, I don't think it's ok to put down men either. Male and female models, sure. Actors and actresses, ok, especially if they choose roles that are about them being attractive. Musicians...only if they put themselves out there for it like Beyonce, etc. Athletes, no, unless they make the choice to model underwear, etc. Just my opinion.
 
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Virginia

Hall of Fame
LOL. Bartoli is not 50 though so I don't know why you are bringing that up. As you age your metabolism declines and you gain weight easier. Bartoli, and any other player, will certainly not be spared by the effects of aging either. Have you seen Lendl these days?
No, your metabolism does not decline - you only gain weight if you make bad food choices and don't exercise.
 

BeHappy

Hall of Fame
That's only because most of them are men...and it wouldn't make sense for a man to be sitting in the both talking about how broad Dwight Howard's shoulders are. I promise you this. Most women that watch him play could care less about his footwork in the paint or what his averages are. They watch for the enjoyment of looking at him. So women don't need to complain too much. I mean the guy shouldn't have said that on T.V. but it is what it is.
Actually, on the BBC the football is presented by Gabby Logan and there is a female commentator. The horse racing by Clare Balding. Even the snooker is presented by Hazel Irvine. The BBC is very politically correct and there have been a lot of women put into sports coverage .
 
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Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
Not Gabby Logan, but you hear it all the time from other male commentators. For instance Keown is often called not much of a looker. Ronaldinho was insulted for his looks. Ronaldo called goofy etc.

That being said the comments about Bartoli are unacceptable really and could be very hurtful.
Goofy????!!! Anyone remember Sebastien Chabal?
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
AM has a point here. Go to the Guys Only thread-most of the pictures are of the pale-skinned, light-haired players. (I find it refreshing to see Ivanovic, Jankovic, Robson, Heather Watson, and other dark haired beauties every now and then).....
No, AM would have had some sort of a point IF he did not make sweeping judgements about all males, tastes and heterosexuals. AM's unchained hatred of all things hetero compromises his every post, and with each new post, the level of clawing hatred grows, with irrational accusations flying all over the place.

AM--by his own words--has painted himself into a corner, coming off as a bitter ideologue hell-bent on destorying all that is not like him.
 

rajah84

Semi-Pro
Maybe they'd play more freely if they weren't under the constant pressure of having their looks evaluated and criticized while they're playing.
A girl/women's purpose and value is in her sexuality, it''s what inspires and motivates them these days. If we could remove that sexual demand it would only weaken them.

Being a heterosexual women these days is accepting this pressure. Most of the best players in the world in all sports got to where they are because they realized this and embraced it.

I only know three girls who don't like wearing skinny jeans and thongs...and only one of them I would call happy, but she's a bit of an anomaly.
 

CCNM

Hall of Fame
Don't have time to read through the entire thread, but did folks talk like this about Lindsay Davenport back in the day? (She was not the prettiest, skinniest player either)
 

millicurie999

Semi-Pro

newpball

Legend
Marion Bartoli invites John Inverdale to the Wimbledon winners’ ball to change his mind over her image

"And on Sunday, she then challenged the presenter to see her dressed up at the ball, writing: ‘I invite him to come to see me in my dress and high heels tonight at the tournament ball. It could change his mind.’"

http://metro.co.uk/2013/07/07/marion-bartoli-invites-john-inverdale-to-the-wimbledon-winners-ball-in-order-to-change-his-mind-over-her-image-3872165/
Not only on court but also off court does she score championship points!

It appears Bartoli is a self confident person, let's see if Inverdale shows up.
 
Well, I personally find Bartoli, and her fiery yet friendly personality, more attractive than Sharapova. Attraction is just not as straight forward as Inverdale likes to make out.
+1

I think she's great, and interesting, which is bit of a change from the bimbo jockettes that usually dominate the game..
 
And another thing, Bartoli has the same attitude that Serena has when it comes to the haters. She lets it rolls off her shoulders and let her success do the talking. I love it!
 
I still remember Marion when she was a teenager , she was slim and rather attractive . Then she started gaining weight .

But back in those days she looked hot .
 

OTMPut

Hall of Fame
I still remember Marion when she was a teenager , she was slim and rather attractive . Then she started gaining weight .

But back in those days she looked hot .
In a photo posted earlier in this thread, she looks a little bit like Rafa in his younger days.
 

MauRod

Rookie
IMHO, Marion is not ugly, she's cute but she's just too fat and definitely needs to lose weight !

...and she needs to start play a one-hand forehand, for god's sake !
 

Scorch

Rookie
Insensitive, classless and rude comments for a tv or radio presenter to make.

It is stupid beyond words that people cite 'freedom of speech' as a defense for people making insulting comments about others. Yes, you are free to say unkind things about others, but more often than not it makes you an ***** and a moron.

True freedom of speech is centred on things that truly matter and have a profound impact on us - y'know the kinds of freedoms our ancestors died to win and protect.

I'm guessing most people who use the anonymity of the internet to call people fat or whatever are too young to know better. At least I hope that's the reason.
 

Dgpsx7

Professional
I think you guys and the title of the article are taking it a bit out of context. He shouldn't have said that but still with the full context being

“Do you think Bartoli’s dad told her when she was little 'You’re never going to be a looker? You’ll never be a Sharapova, so you have to be scrappy and fight.’

I think he was referring to her determination being that she is able to compete at this level even though she looks like she is out of shape.
 

Backbored

Hall of Fame
Most of these players male and female start when they are four years old. So yea you have a lot of parent coaching going on, up and to a point.
 

Backbored

Hall of Fame
I think you guys and the title of the article are taking it a bit out of context. He shouldn't have said that but still with the full context being

“Do you think Bartoli’s dad told her when she was little 'You’re never going to be a looker? You’ll never be a Sharapova, so you have to be scrappy and fight.’

I think he was referring to her determination being that she is able to compete at this level even though she looks like she is out of shape.
So Sharapova only wins because of her looks.
 
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