John McEnroe: "Novak Djokovic Among the Ten Best Tennis Players Ever"

In 2003 and 2004 I remember Mac was constantly lavishing praise on Roddick,tipping him to dominate the US Open and also saying that it was inevitable that he would win Wimbledon one day. Ahead of the 2004 US Open event he also predicted that Federer would never win the title there, as he would hate the noisy crowds, night matches and bright lights of New York. That was funny. Then a few years later he stopped talking about Roddick so much any more, and there were signs at Wimbledon in 2009 and the US Open in 2011 that Roddick now disliked Mac a lot.

The acid test of how knowledgeable a tennis analyst is though is how much they know about lower ranked players and not just the big guns, as analysing in detail how Federer, Nadal or Serena play isn't that impressive. And you get the feeling that people like McEnroe and Evert haven't even heard of most players ranked outside the ATP and WTA top 20 (or even outside the WTA top 10 with Evert), let alone know their playing strengths and weaknesses.
 
Terenigma said:
The only reason i say he needs 1 more slam to be challanging is because there are 12 players who have more slams than him currently. Of those, we have the likes of Agassi and Lendl, i find it pretty tough to put Djokovic ahead of Agassi without having superior slam count. Dont you?

However i do agree that he's probably going to win at least 2 more slams in the many years he has left and if that is indeed the case, there will be no doubt of his place in the top 10.
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But that's not true. I just checked it and there are only 7 players with more slams than him (Federer, Nadal, Sampras, Borg, Connors, Lendl, Agassi). McEnroe and Wilander also have 7 slams so that gives Djokovic a joint 8th place. If Djokovic only wins 2 more Grand Slams, he will stand alone at 5th place. If one of those 2 titles is RG, to me that makes him at least the 5th player in history.
 
Roddick85 said:
no one else on tour has a more complete game than Djokovic.
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I wouldn't say he is the most complete player. His volleying skills are clearly sub-par. It's just that in today's game, if you have great movement, great groundstrokes, a very good serve, then you will be an elite player. Djokovic has all of these. But he is not a complete player in the traditional sense.

Federer on the other hand is complete (in the traditional sense). But racquet/string technology and the slowing of surfaces have tilted the balance towards "complete" baseline players rather than complete all-court players.
 
wangs78 said:
I wouldn't say he is the most complete player. His volleying skills are clearly sub-par. It's just that in today's game, if you have great movement, great groundstrokes, a very good serve, then you will be an elite player. Djokovic has all of these. But he is not a complete player in the traditional sense.

Federer on the other hand is complete (in the traditional sense). But racquet/string technology and the slowing of surfaces have tilted the balance towards "complete" baseline players rather than complete all-court players.
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I would agree Djokers net and forecourt play is not that great, volleying, half volleys, overheads etc.
Back in Macs day though many still played Doubles as well on a regular basis, at least one reason for the decline of the so-called "'all court player"'.
 
Novak's net game is severely underrated here. Novak has great volleys - not exceptional like his FH/BH and return, but great and underrated nonetheless.
So considering this Novak is a complete player indeed, so what is said by wangs78 is inaccurate. Even Federer himself said Novak plays similar offensive style like him.
 
Lol at many posts in this thread. Why are people here so arrogant to think they are in a better position to judge Novak, his game and place in tennis history than tennis experts and greats like McEnroe, Agassi, Sampras, Courier and Federer. :shock:
 
Chico said:
Lol at many posts in this thread. Why are people here so arrogant to think they are in a better position to judge Novak, his game and place in tennis history than tennis experts and greats like McEnroe, Agassi, Sampras, Courier and Federer. :shock:
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Yeah, I'm gonna listen to great ex-pros over joe schmo TW poster.
 
Top 10 open era but not all time

Can't agree that Djokovic is top 10 all time (though he is definitely top 10 open era).

My top 8 all time IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER is Federer, Laver, Gonzales, Tilden, Rosewall, Sampras, Nadal, Borg. There are a lot of players ahead of Djokovic who could take the number 9 and 10 position.

Now having said this - I do think that Djokovic COULD make the all time top 10 by the end of his career, but that remains to be seen.
 
Chico said:
Lol at many posts in this thread. Why are people here so arrogant to think they are in a better position to judge Novak, his game and place in tennis history than tennis experts and greats like McEnroe, Agassi, Sampras, Courier and Federer. :shock:
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Being a great player in no way qualifies you to be necessarily a great tennis historian or tennis historical statistician. Most former greats analysis (though not all) that I have heard on matter of GOAT seems to be superficial and particularly focused on who the great player of the moment is.
 
timnz said:
Being a great player in no way qualifies you to be necessarily a great tennis historian or tennis historical statistician. Most former greats analysis (though not all) that I have heard on matter of GOAT seems to be superficial and particularly focused on who the great player of the moment is.
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Yep. There is a new GOAT born every week almost.
 
Chico said:
Lol at many posts in this thread. Why are people here so arrogant to think they are in a better position to judge Novak, his game and place in tennis history than tennis experts and greats like McEnroe, Agassi, Sampras, Courier and Federer. :shock:
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But they become stupid once they call Nadal the GOAT right?

Point is that you're not going to agree with them on everything related to ranking tennis greats, so stop cherry picking quotations. No one is underrating djokovic, he is an all time great to anyone impartial, but you've blown up a minor opinion with a rather unnecessary campaign. But if your still hell bent on arguing by all means do so but it would be ineffective to cite people you probably wouldn't agree with half the time
 
FHdtl said:
But they become stupid once they call Nadal the GOAT right?

Point is that you're not going to agree with them on everything related to ranking tennis greats, so stop cherry picking quotations. No one is underrating djokovic, he is an all time great to anyone impartial, but you've blown up a minor opinion with a rather unnecessary campaign. But if your still hell bent on arguing by all means do so but it would be ineffective to cite people you probably wouldn't agree with half the time
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Hmmm someone with only 3 posts "knows" so much about what is going on here. Interesting.
 
Chico said:
Hmmm someone with only 3 posts "knows" so much about what is going on here. Interesting.
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Nice ad hom. Your passion as a fan is respectable and there is nothing wrong with arguing against the select few who are indeed underrating Djokovic, but all I'm saying is that you're going about it the wrong way.
 
Chico said:
Novak's net game is severely underrated here. Novak has great volleys - not exceptional like his FH/BH and return, but great and underrated nonetheless.
So considering this Novak is a complete player indeed, so what is said by wangs78 is inaccurate. Even Federer himself said Novak plays similar offensive style like him.
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His net game is not underrated. He has a bad overhead which is a part of the net game. His volleys are decent but nothing special. Overall, his net game is not great.
 
Djokovic is definitely one of the Top 10 Open Era IMO.
He is an ATG certainly.

Federer
Nadal
Sampras
Borg
McEnroe
Connors
Lendl
Agassi
Djokovic
Becker
 
NatF said:
He's top 10 open era but not all time.
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Laver aint top 10 open era either... most of his achievements are pre-open era...

If we stick to open era achievements only It would be...

1) Federer
2) Sampras
3) Nadal
4) Borg
5) Ledl
6) Connors
7) Agassi
8) Mcenroe
9) Djokovic
10) Wilander
....
Edberg/BEcker..
LAver...

Nadal/ Sampras are interchangeable
Lendl/connors are interchangeable

There could be an argument for Agassi and Mcenroe being interchangeable too... although I'd stick with the slam count as the first argument...
 
The_Mental_Giant said:
Laver aint top 10 open era either... most of his achievements are pre-open era...

If we stick to open era achievements only It would be...

1) Federer
2) Sampras
3) Nadal
4) Borg
5) Ledl
6) Connors
7) Agassi
8) Mcenroe
9) Djokovic
10) Wilander
....
Edberg/BEcker..
LAver...

Nadal/ Sampras are interchangeable
Lendl/connors are interchangeable

There could be an argument for Agassi and Mcenroe being interchangeable too... although I'd stick with the slam count as the first argument...
Click to expand...

There's definitely an argument for Djokovic and Agassi being interchangeable as well. It surprises me how many people still have Agassi above Nole these days.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
There's definitely an argument for Djokovic and Agassi being interchangeable as well. It surprises me how many people still have Agassi above Nole these days.
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I think the additional slam and career slam can make a good case for Agassi over Djokovic at this point. Come next May though, Djokovic may very well have surpassed Agassi.
 
The_Mental_Giant said:
Laver aint top 10 open era either... most of his achievements are pre-open era...

If we stick to open era achievements only It would be...

1) Federer
2) Sampras
3) Nadal
4) Borg
5) Ledl
6) Connors
7) Agassi
8) Mcenroe
9) Djokovic
10) Wilander
....
Edberg/BEcker..
LAver...

Nadal/ Sampras are interchangeable
Lendl/connors are interchangeable

There could be an argument for Agassi and Mcenroe being interchangeable too... although I'd stick with the slam count as the first argument...
Click to expand...
Laver is top 10 in the Open Era. He won the CYGS - he just isn't the greatest of all time.
 
MTF07 said:
I think the additional slam and career slam can make a good case for Agassi over Djokovic at this point. Come next May though, Djokovic may very well have surpassed Agassi.
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Also, 8 slams > 7 slams.
Olympic Gold > No Olympic Gold.
 
MTF07 said:
I think the additional slam and career slam can make a good case for Agassi over Djokovic at this point. Come next May though, Djokovic may very well have surpassed Agassi.
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But Djokovic is ahead of him in every other possible metric. For the millionth time: SLAMS ARE NOT EVERYTHING! :rolleyes:
 
Djokovic2011 said:
But Djokovic is ahead of him in every other possible metric. For the millionth time: SLAMS ARE NOT EVERYTHING! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I hear you man, I think it's close, and if Djokovic wins an 8th slam (particularly if it's the FO), he'll definitely be ahead of Agassi. Right now, it's just debatable.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
There's definitely an argument for Djokovic and Agassi being interchangeable as well. It surprises me how many people still have Agassi above Nole these days.
Click to expand...

There is NO argument that would put Djokovic ahead of Agassi at this point.
Agassi has the Career Golden slam and one more slam over Djokovic. End of story.

Djokovic2011 said:
But Djokovic is ahead of him in every other possible metric. For the millionth time: SLAMS ARE NOT EVERYTHING! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

And for the millionth time back, yes they are!
 
newpball said:
Sure from some extra credit but slams matter most!

:grin:
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The Grand Slam events, sanctioned by the #ITF, are used as a #MAJOR factor for induction as a former player into the #ITHOF and the ULTIMATE achievement in the sport of #tennis since the #1877. Accept no cheap substitutes or listen to those who would otherwise try to elevate tour level events historical significance in an effort to bolster their #favorites standing in tennis history. They do it a lot in this forum. Just thought you would like to know that.


#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB ​
 
MichaelNadal said:
You never notice my posts when I say good things about Novak huh? ;)
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It goes both ways too. Nadal has achieved things Djokovic hasn't, namely the Olympic Gold Medal. So shouldn't that matter too? Yet a lot of Djokovic's fans insist that things outside the Grand Slams matter; but Nadal still has the lead (more Masters + OG).
 
Sabratha said:
It goes both ways too. Nadal has achieved things Djokovic hasn't, namely the Olympic Gold Medal. So shouldn't that matter too? Yet a lot of Djokovic's fans insist that things outside the Grand Slams matter; but Nadal still has the lead (more Masters + OG).
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Indeed, as things stand right now slam wise (and that may change in the future) we have F > Nadal > Djokovic.

:grin:
 
Sure Nole is great, but McEnroe's job is to "sell" today's tennis to the American public. If he was touting for Federer, but in the next sentence admitting that Fed is 10 years past his best, would that be a good selling speak?
 
He's above Agassi, bellow Borg & Mac for peak. He needs to show more mental strength to move up higher. Maybe dominate Federer or Nadal for a year or two, most top 10 open ear dominated a season, I don't see that from Nole yet.
 
PMChambers said:
He's above Agassi, bellow Borg & Mac for peak. He needs to show more mental strength to move up higher. Maybe dominate Federer or Nadal for a year or two, most top 10 open ear dominated a season, I don't see that from Nole yet.
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He is dominating the top 2 players in the Open era since 2011, is that not enough?
 
Bukmeikara said:
He is dominating the top 2 players in the Open era since 2011, is that not enough?
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Being behind in the H2H with Federer for this year and not beating Nadal in a slam since January 2012 is not "domination".
 
Sabratha said:
No, it's not. Ranking plays only a small part in supposed "domination".
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Domination is being better than someone for a long period of time. The ranking system sums up the last 12 months of every player so I dont see any better indicator than this. If the ATP used a two-year ranking system, I think that Djokovic would have lost the top spot only for a brief time to Nadal at the start of 2014 which truly shows us how dominant he was since 2011.
 
clayqueen said:
Sampras has the same number of slams as Nadal but Nadal leads all time in Masters, he has OG and grand slam titles across the board. What puts Sampras above Nadal?
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Just call it a draw right now. There are arguments for both Sampras and Nadal. Nadal has the Career Slam and Sampras had the much stronger number one stats plus he was stronger at W and the USO. If Nadal manages to win slam number 15 the Nadal argument will be stronger.
 
Sabratha said:
Being behind in the H2H with Federer for this year and not beating Nadal in a slam since January 2012 is not "domination".
Click to expand...

Bukmeikara said:
Domination is being better than someone for a long period of time. The ranking system sums up the last 12 months of every player so I dont see any better indicator than this. If the ATP used a two-year ranking system, I think that Djokovic would have lost the top spot only for a brief time to Nadal at the start of 2014 which truly shows us how dominant he was since 2011.
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Dominating ? Really ? He barely got the number 1 ranking from Federer by the skin of his teeth. What do you mean domination ?

And since 2012, the h2h in the Slams is 4-1.
7-6 in total, with Nadal ahead. Domination ? Seriously ? :roll:
 
Until there is a written down criteria to determine tennis hierarchy no one should take these very subjective and transient pronouncements about greatness seriously. Only in tennis do we have this.
 
beast of mallorca said:
Dominating ? Really ? He barely got the number 1 ranking from Federer by the skin of his teeth. What do you mean domination ?

And since 2012, the h2h in the Slams is 4-1.
7-6 in total, with Nadal ahead. Domination ? Seriously ? :roll:
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Starting from 04.07.11 we have roughly 180 weeks. In that period Djokovic was above Federer in 164 weeks(90%) and above Nadal in 151 weeks(83%), combined he was above them in 124 weeks in 68% and if we include the first six months of 2011 its becoming even more impresive. If this is not domination being the better player in 70%(75% if we include the first six months of 2011) of time for 4 years against both of them I dont know what it is.
 
Bukmeikara said:
Starting from 04.07.11 we have roughly 180 weeks. In that period Djokovic was above Federer in 164 weeks(90%) and above Nadal in 151 weeks(83%), combined he was above them in 124 weeks in 68% and if we include the first six months of 2011 its becoming even more impresive. If this is not domination being the better player in 70%(75% if we include the first six months of 2011) of time for 4 years against both of them I dont know what it is.
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He was more consistent. That's why he had more ranking points. Since 2012, Nadal leads the h2h 7-6. Federer this year leads the h2h 3-2. So, how can you say that he is dominating Federer and Nadal ? I can only admit his "domination" of the 2 once he tramples these 2 like Federer tramples Gasquet or like when Nadal crushes Almagro. Or at least have a positive h2h on them.

Until then, you can only say that Djokovic is the most consistent of the ATP players.
 
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