John McEnroe: "Novak Djokovic Among the Ten Best Tennis Players Ever"

It must get annoying, getting asked all the same questions over and over again, though. One slip of the tongue, vague answer, or just not interested atm, etc, can lead to all sorts of conclusions from people, where maybe that is not exactly what he really thinks....
 
Chico said:
Very nice and accurate statement from McEnroe. Shows us how real tennis greats value Djokovic and what is his real place in tennis history, contrary to constant disrespect and undermining he gets here.

http://www.**************.org/John-...n-Best-Tennis-Players-Ever-articolo21592.html
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i think everyone will agree with what McEnroe said. You however said that Nadal should not even be regarded as a "great", and is a lousy, pathetic player. who is more reasonable here?
 
beast of mallorca said:
He was more consistent. That's why he had more ranking points. Since 2012, Nadal leads the h2h 7-6. Federer this year leads the h2h 3-2. So, how can you say that he is dominating Federer and Nadal ? I can only admit his "domination" of the 2 once he tramples these 2 like Federer tramples Gasquet or like when Nadal crushes Almagro. Or at least have a positive h2h on them.

Until then, you can only say that Djokovic is the most consistent of the ATP players.
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Well the main difference for this H2H is that often Nadal evades Djokovic outside the clay while the serb is constanly reaching the late rounds on the red dirth, for example three of those wins are at Roland Garos and another two in Rome and Monte Carlo. Nadal has skipped 12 main events(not including Basel, Beijing) since 2012 where if he had meeted Novak he would have been probably a underdog.

Against Federer Djokovic won the two most important matches this year Indian Wells and Wimbledon, while losing the three SF. I am not saying that we shouldnt apreciate Federer for his wins but still Wimbledon is equal to at least two of those losses not to mention that Novak was 1.2-1.3 favorite against Federer at the WTF before the second one retire.
 
Novak should have to give W/O to federer in MC SF,because unlike him at WTF, he was really injured which could be seen throughout the tournament. But ,hey, Federer leads 3 2 in 2014, while Novak won both finals where they played , one of them at federer favorite turf. Oh , that Wimbledon trophy:twisted:, which suddenly is not considered one of the greatest achievements in tennis, is now overshadowed with clay SF. :oops:
 
LOL @ Nolefans, comparing player at his peak to another player full 10 YEARS past his peak. You really think he's a strong #1, when a granpa causes him so much trouble, and Nadal owns him in slams?
 
Bukmeikara said:
Starting from 04.07.11 we have roughly 180 weeks. In that period Djokovic was above Federer in 164 weeks(90%) and above Nadal in 151 weeks(83%), combined he was above them in 124 weeks in 68% and if we include the first six months of 2011 its becoming even more impresive. If this is not domination being the better player in 70%(75% if we include the first six months of 2011) of time for 4 years against both of them I dont know what it is.
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The only year that Nadal has played a full season since 2011 (2013), Novak was nowhere to be seen. He scraped through to YE#1 this year by the skin of his teeth. Such domination. :p
 
clayqueen said:
The only year that Nadal has played a full season since 2011 (2013), Novak was nowhere to be seen. He scraped through to YE#1 this year by the skin of his teeth. Such domination. :p
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fap fap fap
 
Years like 2010/11 and 2013 lead Nadal to wanish from competition in half of the 2012 and 2014 while Novak is always on tour and played with all kind of cometitions. No way that he wolud have such a season if he had to play full 2012. 2013 Novak finished 750 points below Nadal /who won 2 slams to Novak ones. Lol at those nadaltrolls. Remember your moaning abut- Novak Player of the year 2013 by ITF .
 
Noelan said:
Years like 2010/11 and 2013 lead Nadal to wanish from competition in half of the 2012 and 2014 while Novak is always on tour and played with all kind of cometitions. No way that he wolud have such a season if he had to play full 2012. 2013 Novak finished 750 points below Nadal /who won 2 slams to Novak ones. Lol at those nadaltrolls. Remember your moaning abut- Novak Player of the year 2013 by ITF .
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Rafa did not even play a full season in 2013 and still ended up as #1. In 2013, Nadal played 3 slams and won 2, Novak played 4 and only won one; the one that he didn't have to play against Nadal. The 2 slams he played against Nadal, the FO and the USO, he lost.
 
Noelan said:
Years like 2010/11 and 2013 lead Nadal to wanish from competition in half of the 2012 and 2014 while Novak is always on tour and played with all kind of cometitions. No way that he wolud have such a season if he had to play full 2012. 2013 Novak finished 750 points below Nadal /who won 2 slams to Novak ones. Lol at those nadaltrolls. Remember your moaning abut- Novak Player of the year 2013 by ITF .
Click to expand...
1 Nadal, Rafael (ESP) 14,330
2 Djokovic, Novak (SRB) 10,620
 
clayqueen said:
Rafa did not even play a full season in 2013 and still ended up as #1. In 2013, Nadal played 3 slams and won 2, Novak played 4 and only won one; the one that he didn't have to play against Nadal. The 2 slams he played against Nadal, the FO and the USO, he lost.
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Straight lines in Nadal injuries breaks are highly suspicious. No way that he would have such HC season without them, and all of you trolls know that.Which next infamous illness on injury will be:confused:
Anyway this topic is about Mac words on Novak , not Nadal .For you it's better to stick your Nadal photo thread , you polute every other thread with your nonsence blabbing.
As for Novak, I don't worry about him at all, hes 27yo, fit and healthy, has a complete game to compete at high level with all kinds of competition, on all surfaces, if he continue with that in the next 2/3 years he will only to improve his resume in tennis history.
 
Chico said:
Very nice and accurate statement from McEnroe. Shows us how real tennis greats value Djokovic and what is his real place in tennis history, contrary to constant disrespect and undermining he gets here.

http://www.**************.org/John-...n-Best-Tennis-Players-Ever-articolo21592.html
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He's a work in progress.

...and that means he's still not the would-be GOAT of certain Djokovic fans' fantasies.
 
cc0509 said:
There is NO argument that would put Djokovic ahead of Agassi at this point.
Agassi has the Career Golden slam and one more slam over Djokovic. End of story.



And for the millionth time back, yes they are!
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Then why did so many people rank Djokovic ahead of Wilander even when he was on 6 majors and Mats was on 7? :?
 
Novak is ahead of both Wilander and Agassi. That is clear to anyone impartial. Even both Wilander and Agassi would agree with that.

Only Fedal fanboys here have different "opinion", only in order to bash and undermine Novak.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Then why did so many people rank Djokovic ahead of Wilander even when he was on 6 majors and Mats was on 7? :?
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Who are these "so many people" by the way? I wasn't one of them that is for sure. The point is that when Djokovic had six slams to Wilander's seven it was debatable who was superior but it is not debatable that Agassi is greater than Djokovic at this point when Agassi has one more slam plus the golden Career Slam. That is plain stupidity.
 
cc0509 said:
Who are these "so many people" by the way? I wasn't one of them that is for sure. The point is that when Djokovic had six slams to Wilander's seven it was debatable who was superior but it is not debatable that Agassi is greater than Djokovic at this point when Agassi has one more slam plus the golden Career Slam. That is plain stupidity.
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Of course it's debatable. I say Djokovic > Agassi so I'm debating it for one! :)
More YE#1, WTF's, Masters 1000s is enough to bridge the 1 Slam gap between them. You know this of course cc0.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Loads of people in forums and other tennis sites and I also saw lists where Nole was ranked ahead of him. Anyway he's definitely ahead of him now so who cares?
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But behind Agassi. Do you think SHokavish will win slams in his 30's like Agassi?
 
Terenigma said:
I like how people quote John McEnroe as if his opinion is important or groundbreaking. Once again, he's going with the flow of what the tennis world is thinking and saying it like its news.

On topic tho: I think if we really look back at the greatest tennis players in history, Djokovic is not quite around the top 10 yet but i dont think he's far away from being a legit contender. In my view he needs at least 1 more slam to be challanging for top 10 and 2 to confirm his place.
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Great post. I agree with both major points 100%.

People forget the JMac clunkers: "DY is a future star; Federer is done!"

And Djokovic is headed toward a position in the top 10. Not there yet. I worry that his style of play may take its toll and cut his run short.
 
TheNatural said:
But behind Agassi. Do you think SHokavish will win slams in his 30's like Agassi?
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Why does he need to win slams in his 30's to prove his greatness? If this is the case you must have Borg pretty low down on the ATG list. And why do you think Agassi is ahead of Nole given everything I wrote in my last post?
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Loads of people in forums and other tennis sites and I also saw lists where Nole was ranked ahead of him. Anyway he's definitely ahead of him now so who cares?
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It is not definite at all until Djokovic wins one more slam. Right now he is tied with Wilander at seven slams and Wilander won slams on every surface even though he never won Wimbledon (he won the AO on grass.) Plus Wilander had a very deep field to contend with vs Edberg, Lendl, McEnroe, Connors, Becker, etc. It was a much deeper field than it is today IMO.
Djokovic has the 3 year end championships and more weeks at number one.

There are still arguments to be made on both sides in the Wilander-Djokovic debate regarding who is greater. They are fairly equal still IMO and are for sure in the same tier with seven slams each.

With Agassi vs Djokovic there is no debate. Agassi is greater at this stage with 8 slams and the Career golden slam.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Why does he need to win slams in his 30's to prove his greatness? If this is the case you must have Borg pretty low down on the ATG list. And why do you think Agassi is ahead of Nole given everything I wrote in my last post?
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Golden Career Slam.:)
 
cc0509 said:
It is not definite at all until Djokovic wins one more slam. Right now he is tied with Wilander at seven slams and Wilander won slams on every surface even though he never won Wimbledon (he won the AO on grass.) Plus Wilander had a very deep field to contend with vs Edberg, Lendl, McEnroe, Connors, Becker, etc. It was a much deeper field than it is today IMO.
Djokovic has the 3 year end championships and more weeks at number one.

There are still arguments to be made on both sides in the Wilander-Djokovic debate regarding who is greater. They are fairly equal still IMO and are for sure in the same tier with seven slams each.

With Agassi vs Djokovic there is no debate. Agassi is greater at this stage with 8 slams and the Career golden slam.
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So again you're saying that it all comes down to the slams. I see no reason why Djokovic can't be at least equal with Agassi when he's ahead of him in every other possible metric(for the record, 31 tier 1 titles to Andre's 26). And are you seriously saying that Novak isn't even ahead of Wilander yet and that Mats had tougher competition? :shock: You're usually pretty objective cc0 but you've been letting yourself down just recently babe which is sad to see.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Of course it's debatable. I say Djokovic > Agassi so I'm debating it for one! :)
More YE#1, WTF's, Masters 1000s is enough to bridge the 1 Slam gap between them. You know this of course cc0.
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Nope. 1 slam more and the Career golden slam trumps all of that. Heck, there are still people today who argue that Agassi is greater than Sampras (which I don't believe) because Sampras never won the FO and Agassi won them all.

No way can you place Djokovic ahead of Agassi when Agassi has one more slam plus the Career golden slam. No reasonable tennis analyst would do that. Remember and repeat after me: Slams are to be given the most weight. Got it? ;)
 
Djokovic2011 said:
So again you're saying that it all comes down to the slams. I see no reason why Djokovic can't be at least equal with Agassi when he's ahead of him in every other possible metric(for the record, 31 tier 1 titles to Andre's 26). And are you seriously saying that Novak isn't even ahead of Wilander yet and that Mats had tougher competition? :shock: You're usually pretty objective cc0 but you've been letting yourself down just recently babe which is sad to see.
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I am saying that Wilander and Djokovic are still in the same tier with seven slams each and that Wilander won slams on all surfaces and Novak hasn't. Novak has the three year end championships and more weeks at number one. So it is still debatable who is greater. Arguments can be made on both sides.

Re the competition, Djokovic has had to deal with two of the greatest players of all time in Nadal and Federer but Wilander had a "deeper" field to contend with in those days. Today when you go past the Big Three or Four the field is weak compared to the field in Wilander's day.

Try and be objective please.
 
cc0509 said:
Nope. 1 slam more and the Career golden slam trumps all of that. Heck, there are still people today who argue that Agassi is greater than Sampras (which I don't believe) because Sampras never won the FO and Agassi won them all.

No way can you place Djokovic ahead of Agassi when Agassi has one more slam plus the Career golden slam. No reasonable tennis analyst would do that. Remember and repeat after me: Slams are to be given the most weight. Got it? ;)
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Nope, I don't get it. All those other things Novak has over Agassi amount to at least 1 major and no one is gonna convince me otherwise, not in a million years. Thb I find your lack of respect for all the other ATP tournaments shocking.

Will you at least concede that as of now they're both equal due to all the other accomplishments that Novak has over Agassi?
 
cc0509 said:
I am saying that Wilander and Djokovic are still in the same tier with seven slams each and that Wilander won slams on all surfaces and Novak hasn't. Novak has the three year end championships and more weeks at number one. So it is still debatable who is greater. Arguments can be made on both sides.

Re the competition, Djokovic has had to deal with two of the greatest players of all time in Nadal and Federer but Wilander had a "deeper" field to contend with in those days. Today when you go past the Big Three or Four the field is weak compared to the field in Wilander's day.

Try and be objective please.
Click to expand...

Unbelievable underrating of Djokovic, as usual. No sane person would compare or even put Wilander above Djokovic. And what is even funnier, he ends with "try to be objective" lol. :shock:

LOL at these who constantly think they know better than Federer, McEnroe, Sampras, and other tennis greats.
 
cc0509 said:
I am saying that Wilander and Djokovic are still in the same tier with seven slams each and that Wilander won slams on all surfaces and Novak hasn't. Novak has the three year end championships and more weeks at number one. So it is still debatable who is greater. Arguments can be made on both sides.

Re the competition, Djokovic has had to deal with two of the greatest players of all time in Nadal and Federer but Wilander had a "deeper" field to contend with in those days. Today when you go past the Big Three or Four the field is weak compared to the field in Wilander's day.

Try and be objective please.
Click to expand...

I'm perfectly objective cc0. For instance if someone said that Djokovic is now greater than McEnroe I would definitely disagree with them due to Mac's 5 WCT titles and all his extra weeks at #1. This despite both players having 7 slams each.
But when the debate comes down to Djokovic v Agassi I just can't for the life of me understand why that one extra major should cancel out everything else that Novak has over him, not to mention much better day in, day out consistency. Like I said, you can argue with me till the cows come home but you'll never sway me on that one.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I'm perfectly objective cc0. For instance if someone said that Djokovic is now greater than McEnroe I would definitely disagree with them due to Mac's 5 WCT titles and all his extra weeks at #1. This despite both players having 7 slams each.
But when the debate comes down to Djokovic v Agassi I just can't for the life of me understand why that one extra major should cancel out everything else that Novak has over him, not to mention much better day in, day out consistency. Like I said, you can argue with me till the cows come home but you'll never sway me on that one.
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That is because as AngieB says " you major in minors" son! ;)

You can't quite grasp that slams are the most important barometer to measure a tennis career. That is the problem with your analysis.
 
Chico said:
Unbelievable underrating of Djokovic, as usual. No sane person would compare or even put Wilander above Djokovic. And what is even funnier, he ends with "try to be objective" lol. :shock:

LOL at these who constantly think they know better than Federer, McEnroe, Sampras, and other tennis greats.
Click to expand...

I am not putting Wilander above Djokovic. I am saying they are in the same tier. They both have seven slams. Wilander has won a slam on ALL surfaces, Djokovic has not. There is nothing for you to deny there, that is a fact. Djokovic has the three year end championships and better number one stats than Wilander. It is still debatable and is not a closed case.

With respect to the opinions of McEnroe, Sampras, etc. They all change their minds with the wind and say things to promote today's game, especially McEnroe. Are you saying you agree with McEnroe that Nadal is the GOAT? Or are you saying you know better than the great McEnroe? ;)
 
cc0509 said:
That is because as AngieB says " you major in minors" son! ;)

You can't quite grasp that slams are the most important barometer to measure a tennis career. That is the problem with your analysis.
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So is Kuerten a greater player than Murray just because he has one more major?! Come on now cc0! :rolleyes:
 
cc0509 said:
I am not putting Wilander above Djokovic. I am saying they are in the same tier. They both have seven slams. Wilander has won a slam on ALL surfaces, Djokovic has not. There is nothing for you to deny there, that is a fact. Djokovic has the three year end championships and better number one stats than Wilander. It is still debatable and is not a closed case.

With respect to the opinions of McEnroe, Sampras, etc. They all change their minds with the wind and say things to promote today's game, especially McEnroe. Are you saying you agree with McEnroe that Nadal is the GOAT? Or are you saying you know better than the great McEnroe? ;)
Click to expand...

I disagree that Nole and Wilander are in the same tier. The general consensus these days is that Wilander is tier 3 while Novak is tier 2.

Out of interest cc0 do you have Nole above both Becker and Edberg? I wouldn't be surprised if you don't!!
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I disagree that Nole and Wilander are in the same tier. The general consensus these days is that Wilander is tier 3 while Novak is tier 2.
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Where is this 'consensus' you speak of? You and your tennis buddies?

Djokovic2011 said:
Out of interest cc0 do you have Nole above both Becker and Edberg? I wouldn't be surprised if you don't!!
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Same tier. ND has the advantage of still being active and thus able to add to his legacy. Becker is just putting buffet restaurants out of business.
 
cc0509 said:
I am not putting Wilander above Djokovic. I am saying they are in the same tier. They both have seven slams. Wilander has won a slam on ALL surfaces, Djokovic has not. There is nothing for you to deny there, that is a fact. Djokovic has the three year end championships and better number one stats than Wilander. It is still debatable and is not a closed case.

With respect to the opinions of McEnroe, Sampras, etc. They all change their minds with the wind and say things to promote today's game, especially McEnroe. Are you saying you agree with McEnroe that Nadal is the GOAT? Or are you saying you know better than the great McEnroe? ;)
Click to expand...

It is sometimes forgotten that the top players often did not compete at the AO up until the mid 80's.
Wilander's Slam count is thus slightly inflated as a result. Mac did not compete at the 1984 AO on grass (a year he was virtually invincible)- voluntarily!
Wilanders 1988 year confirmed his greatness, even with a low number of weeks at Number 1 all up.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I disagree that Nole and Wilander are in the same tier. The general consensus these days is that Wilander is tier 3 while Novak is tier 2.


Out of interest cc0 do you have Nole above both Becker and Edberg? I wouldn't be surprised if you don't!!
Click to expand...


By whom? 12 year old fanboys on TTW and MTF which is a circus? They are still in the same tier by any objective measures. They both have seven slams. Again, Djokovic has the better number one stats and he has three YEC titles but Wilander has won a slam on EVERY surface, something Djokovic has yet to accomplish.

Yes, I think Djokovic is above Becker and Edberg. 7 slams > 6 slams. Better number one stats.
 
DerekNoleFam1 said:
It is sometimes forgotten that the top players often did not compete at the AO up until the mid 80's.
Wilander's Slam count is thus slightly inflated as a result. Mac did not compete at the 1984 AO on grass (a year he was virtually invincible)- voluntarily!
Wilanders 1988 year confirmed his greatness, even with a low number of weeks at Number 1 all up.
Click to expand...

LOL! Did you even watch tennis in those days or are you 12?

In 1983 Wilander won his AO beating Ivan Lendl. In 84 he beat Curren. In 85 he lost to Edberg! In 88 he beat Pat Cash!

Try harder and get your facts straight!
 
cc0509 said:
By whom? 12 year old fanboys on TTW and MTF which is a circus? They are still in the same tier by any objective measures. They both have seven slams. Again, Djokovic has the better number one stats and he has three YEC titles but Wilander has won a slam on EVERY surface, something Djokovic has yet to accomplish.

Yes, I think Djokovic is above Becker and Edberg. 7 slams > 6 slams. Better number one stats.
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So you don't think Nole is tier 2 yet cc0?
 
Djokovic tier below Agassi and in the same tier with Edberg Becker and Wilander. :shock:

Are these haters for real????

Please stop off topic trolling in my thread.
This is about acknowledging tennis greats' opinion that Djokovic is in top 10 ever.
Not insulting the common sense by underrating Novak and placing him two tiers below his real current place in the tennis history ladder.

Djokovic2011, please stop feeding these trolls. You are ruining my thread. Thanks.
 
Chico said:
Djokovic tier below Agassi and in the same tier with Edberg Becker and Wilander. :shock:

Are these haters for real????

Please stop off topic trolling in my thread.
This is about acknowledging tennis greats' opinion that Djokovic is in top 10 ever.
Not insulting the common sense by underrating Novak and placing him two tiers below his real current place in the tennis history ladder.

Djokovic2011, please stop feeding these trolls. You are ruining my thread. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Yep. There is no way Djokovic is in Agassi's tier yet.

You do not have ownership of this thread or this forum and people can post whatever they wish in response to other posts. Get over yourself.
 
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