John McEnroe on Nadal and Babolat

tlm said:
I like mac as a announcer but he has no clue on modern day equipment. I love it when he talks about the new luxilon synthetic strings, he never says poly strings i don't know if he even knows they are poly.
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I remember seeing a segment during Wimbledon coverage about 10 years ago, on why the ball moved through the air faster when the temperature was hot (less density of the gasses that make up air).

When it ended, Mac was making fun of the explanation and giggling his butt off.

I think it's an insult to the idea of higher education that such an ignorant dimwit went to Stanford.
 
tennis_balla said:
As far back as 2002, before anyone ever heard of Rafa, the talk was about Babolat rackets. Babolat was very aggressive in their campaign in North America, giving average ranked players 2 rackets, a bag and some strings for $200 if I remember correctly. Word got around and a fair bit of guys switched or at least gave the rackets a demo. By the time Rafa won Roland Garros in 2005, Babolat was already pretty well established in the US and worldwide.
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They also went pretty aggressively after tennis clubs with large junior programs. Babolat rackets had a special cachet because they were not available in the big box stores so the perception was that these rackets were for "special" players. They also had a variety of lighter rackets. I remember following this "logic" with my junior - first PD junior 26.5", then Pure Control Team MP. Head actually had much more easily attainable ranking requirements for partial sponsorship but their rackets were not "sexy" enough.
 
Roddick was the player that put Babolat racquets on the map. As far as I can see no other player has their name on a babolat racquet that is sold in stores.




PS. don't go posting pictures of nadals name on the aero pro drive. When you know you can't buy that racquet in stores to prove me wrong.
 
Babolat at the French Open in 1995 had hundreds of prototype frames that they were giving to their string contract players, Moya made the racquet legit with the guy's but the first ones were absolute dogs.
 
You guys have to think past the U.S. borders. I don't think he was the driving force on the rest of the planet in increasing Babolat market share.
 
the green god said:
You guys have to think past the U.S. borders. I don't think he was the driving force on the rest of the planet in increasing Babolat market share.
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Babolat released rackets first for the European market in the mid 90's, then in Japan shortly after. In '99/'00 they were set to break into the North American market. Like I mentioned before this is where Roddick for them played a key role. Any company, regardless of what they are selling/offering, will tell you breaking into the US market is crucial for success.
 
sureshs said:
Roddique and Moya
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True . Mcenroe is a bit old.
He tends to say time and time again , 'guys are bigger now , lifting weights' .. that talk puts me to sleep .. i think its much more a case of running better and faster with balance and better cardio drills and high energy bursts than 'pumping iron'..yawn.
 
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Eh, JMac has been spouting nonsense the whole French Open. Talking about Sloane Stephens making the final or Nadal being the best volleyer of the top guys. There's probably a lot more that's just too stupid for me to remember.
 
fundrazer said:
Eh, JMac has been spouting nonsense the whole French Open. Talking about Sloane Stephens making the final or Nadal being the best volleyer of the top guys. There's probably a lot more that's just too stupid for me to remember.
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I think he still has a NYC provocative kind of communication , like to stir the pot somewhat.

I recall years back when he spoke of Younes El Aynauoi in very childish fashion. Not that i was a fan of El A. but still the standard was silly.
 
Pure drive was made popular by people like roddick and clijsters but rafa helped explode the sales of the aero pro drive specifically
 
hcb0804 said:
And Clijsters among others.......I took Macs point to be that Babolat racquet business really exploded with the emergence of Nadal, which is true. Yes of course they have been making racquets since 1994, but Babolat had a relatively small piece of the pie until Nadal.
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Absolutely correct! It's all cyclical. If Nadal played with Prince, every kid in America would be sporting a Prince racquet. Babolat is eternally indebted to Nadal and what he has done for their company and btw, I'm not even a Nadal fan.
 
Carlos Moya was one that started Babolat rolling in the mass market and Andy Roddick did it for them in the U.S. But it was Nadal that got them noticed worldwide!
 
mavsman149 said:
No doubt Nadal is a better player than roddick could ever dream of becoming but roddick absolutely did far more for the brand than nadal.....before nadal won his first french open babolat was already a huge brand thanks to roddick and the pure drive
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Yea...

by my experience I would agree with this. So many pure drives all over the place (at least in the states)!

But what about Europe?
 
pds999 said:
Not sure. Nadal is a very competent vollyer and doesn't miss many and his technique is very sound. But he doesn't quite have the hands to be called a great vollyer IMO.
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Let's have a tourney where it is mandatory that you play S&V behind all first serves and optional on 2nd serves on a fast US Open court. Nadal would not make the semi's. Federer has a lot more skill at the net and for that matter, players like Llorda and other guys who play lots of doubles could out volley Nadal.

McEnroe definately likes to stir the pot.

Nadal is a competent volley-ier but not in same league as really good volley-iers like Fed, Sampras, Edberg, McEnroe, Llorda, Nestor, Bryan brothers...

Also, Babolat was the number 1 racket in US when Roddick used it while Nadal was just starting on tour. Roddick caused the US Babolat explosion and Nadal expanded it.
 
Greg Raven said:
Did anyone else hear John McEnroe say the other day that before Nadal started using Babolat racquets, Babolat had no racquet business? He made it sound as if it was mainly due to Nadal's popularity that Babolat had FINALLY become a serious company.

I realize that McEnroe and Gimelstob are hired as commentators more for their ability to talk non-stop for hours, rather than because they are ever correct or even insightful about anything, but this is ridiculous.

Just for the record:

+ Babolat been in the tennis business since 1874.
+ Babolat strings were by far the most popular strings on the tour before the introduction of Luxilon strings.
+ A lot of players still use Babolat strings, both natural gut and polyester.
+ Babolat has been designing and manufacturing industry-leading stringing machines for decades.
+ Babolat start making racquets in 1994.
+ These racquets started catching on immediately thanks to players such as Andy Roddick and Carlos Moya (emphasis on Roddick, though).
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OH please!! if it werent for nadal babolat wouldnt even be half as popular as it is now
 
PED said:
+1, when my son was playing junior tourneys back in 05, PD was the default stick of choice out there.

Rafa has since taken them higher sales wise, but Moya started it all and ARod popularity was a massive boost here in the states.
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You r right! Moya put them on the map! i remember when roddick was a junior coached by that French player (bennedbles sp) and I was so shocked that a US player was coached by a french player and using a french racquet. I grew up using VS string!
 
TennisCJC said:
Let's have a tourney where it is mandatory that you play S&V behind all first serves and optional on 2nd serves on a fast US Open court. Nadal would not make the semi's. Federer has a lot more skill at the net and for that matter, players like Llorda and other guys who play lots of doubles could out volley Nadal.

McEnroe definately likes to stir the pot.

Nadal is a competent volley-ier but not in same league as really good volley-iers like Fed, Sampras, Edberg, McEnroe, Llorda, Nestor, Bryan brothers...

Also, Babolat was the number 1 racket in US when Roddick used it while Nadal was just starting on tour. Roddick caused the US Babolat explosion and Nadal expanded it.
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I almost agreed with your opinion until you put Fed in the same group as Mac, sampras and edberg. First, those other guys are light years ahead of Fed in volleying. Second, while Nadal wouldn't do as well as Fed in your imaginary scenario, your scenario is not just about volleying. It includes a serve. Fed would do much better in part because his serve is much better. I do think he's better at moving forward.
I'm not trying to be condescending but let me ask you, do you serve and volleying much? Do you consider yourself a volleyer?
I ask because volleying involves much more than the physical part of how good your volleys look and how much pop you can put on it. It also involves knowing when, where and how to come in. In this department, Nadal is MUCH better than Fed. Yes, I know ppl say Nadal simply doesn't come in. I agree that he doesn't come in as much as a true serve and volleyer but he does know where to stand, how to come in, how to cut off angles and the biggie...he rarely overhits a volley. That means, if a volley requires a hard punch he does that. If the shot only requires a bit of depth, Nadal won't go for too much.
Federer frequently hits the wrong shot. He goes for a short angled dropper when he simply needed to get it crosscourt. Sometimes he plays it too safe. And the worst part, especially when he plays Djokovic or Nadal, is when things get tight, he frequently just hits a shot in the middle or something w/o conviction in the middle of a neutral rally and runs in after it, as if he's now "attacking" like he should. Of course he gets killed. Occasionally he wins it but does he "know" how to volley? No. If he once had it, he no longer has the instinct of a volleyer.
 
Venetian said:
Even the idea that their racquets really took off because of Nadal is false. Babolat's racquet line exploded thanks to Andy Roddick in 2001/2002. I think Roddick did WAY more for the brand than Nadal. You still can't go to any level of tennis tournament without seeing close to 200 Pure Drives.
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babolat was just fine before they started making rackets. and when they did, Moya winning the French put them on the map. then when roddick won the USO, hit the serve record, became number 1 ect, there sales with the pd really shot off. there is a reason babolat gave roddick a signature stick.
(rafa coming along certainly helped babolat also, but its not like he made them)
 
TennisCJC said:
Let's have a tourney where it is mandatory that you play S&V behind all first serves and optional on 2nd serves on a fast US Open court. Nadal would not make the semi's. Federer has a lot more skill at the net and for that matter, players like Llorda and other guys who play lots of doubles could out volley Nadal.

McEnroe definately likes to stir the pot.

Nadal is a competent volley-ier but not in same league as really good volley-iers like Fed, Sampras, Edberg, McEnroe, Llorda, Nestor, Bryan brothers...

Also, Babolat was the number 1 racket in US when Roddick used it while Nadal was just starting on tour. Roddick caused the US Babolat explosion and Nadal expanded it.
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wow, why does this keep coming up?! federer is not a good volleyer period. he frequently misses easy shots at net, and comes in at the wrong time. yes he has the tools to volley well, but he doesn't. fact is this generation of players is pretty inept at net

edit: i realize that he once s&vd more, and more successfully. but thats not how he won his slams
 
PED said:
Rafa has since taken them higher sales wise, but Moya started it all and ARod popularity was a massive boost here in the states.
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Could have ended the thread here - the truth.

pds999 said:
Not sure. Nadal is a very competent vollyer and doesn't miss many and his technique is very sound. But he doesn't quite have the hands to be called a great vollyer IMO.
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+1. Nadal knows his limitations and doesn't come in on anything difficult (e.g. chip and charge) - he's usually coming in when his opponent is hitting up or from a very defensive position. His speed which gets him very tight to the net is a huge advantage too so he can drop them or angle them off. Can't say I remember many volleys he really punched through the court like the great volleyers.
 
Harry_Wild said:
Carlos Moya was one that started Babolat rolling in the mass market and Andy Roddick did it for them in the U.S. But it was Nadal that got them noticed worldwide!
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Moya got em rolling in the mass market?

Who's ever bought a frame cause of Carlos Moya? Outside of S. America.
 
I think they gave tons of contracts for atleast free racquets and string to tons of juniors up and coming. It seemed like everyone was using them for a bit. Than once the contracts were up many left and what was really left was Andy R, Nadal and Kim C. I also thing that Moya used them and he is a former number 1.
 
wherever is is from- sorry - Moya would never move product. Not a soul in the US would know who he was outside of hardcore fans, that's my point.
 
Greg Raven said:
Did anyone else hear John McEnroe say the other day that before Nadal started using Babolat racquets, Babolat had no racquet business? He made it sound as if it was mainly due to Nadal's popularity that Babolat had FINALLY become a serious company.

I realize that McEnroe and Gimelstob are hired as commentators more for their ability to talk non-stop for hours, rather than because they are ever correct or even insightful about anything, but this is ridiculous.

Just for the record:

+ Babolat been in the tennis business since 1874.
+ Babolat strings were by far the most popular strings on the tour before the introduction of Luxilon strings.
+ A lot of players still use Babolat strings, both natural gut and polyester.
+ Babolat has been designing and manufacturing industry-leading stringing machines for decades.
+ Babolat start making racquets in 1994.
+ These racquets started catching on immediately thanks to players such as Andy Roddick and Carlos Moya (emphasis on Roddick, though).
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Way to bring back a thread from 12 yrs ago!!!!! But to give credit...... NADAL hasnt retired just yet!

I think McEnroe was dead on on this one, let me explain why:

-Babolat is the best nat gut manufacturer and has been almos exclusively since 1874, as OP points out.
-Nat Gut is slowly drifting away.... nobody uses it as a full set any more, it is used by some pros in a hybrid setup (very few in the mains). Most of these pros are from the past gen (Big 3 generation).
-Again, they were the most popular because practically 100% of pros used nat gut. The rise of co-polys changed the game.
-Yes, but they have top notch competitors, like Tecnifibre nowadays.
-1994 they begin to manufacture. A flashy spaniard with a BIG forehand shows up a couple of years later in the US OPEN swinging a rare, blue racquet with two white lines on the sides.... everyone is wondering what brand is this? This spaniard is Carlos Moya (I remember perfectly seeing this rare new racquet for the first time in his hands).

Afterwards, Moya wins a Grand Slam becomes #1 in the world, a new American hot rod breaks thru using this "same" racquet and he is the next big American hype. Flash forward to a couple of years into the new millenium this American wins a US Open and becomes N1 in the World...... Babolat racquets are hot in Europe AND now in the US............................... The two biggest tennis markets (except for Asia)

What takes them completely over the top??? This other spanish kid: Nadal. He is not only big in Europe but ALL OVER THE WORLD.

FLASH FWD to today, 2,024, Nadal is still hanging around, his Pure Aero has been one of the top sellers for 20 yrs. You cant buy this, you cant fabricate this. Babolat struck gold. 100% Nadal made Babolat. They would have never been the same without him, no way, the Pure Aero wouldve been just another gimmick and wouldve washed away like a Prince Twist...........................
 
Greg Raven said:
Did anyone else hear John McEnroe say the other day that before Nadal started using Babolat racquets, Babolat had no racquet business? He made it sound as if it was mainly due to Nadal's popularity that Babolat had FINALLY become a serious company.

I realize that McEnroe and Gimelstob are hired as commentators more for their ability to talk non-stop for hours, rather than because they are ever correct or even insightful about anything, but this is ridiculous.

Just for the record:

+ Babolat been in the tennis business since 1874.
+ Babolat strings were by far the most popular strings on the tour before the introduction of Luxilon strings.
+ A lot of players still use Babolat strings, both natural gut and polyester.
+ Babolat has been designing and manufacturing industry-leading stringing machines for decades.
+ Babolat start making racquets in 1994.
+ These racquets started catching on immediately thanks to players such as Andy Roddick and Carlos Moya (emphasis on Roddick, though).
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Wow,, had no idea John was such a King of the Obvioius
 
I have to say, my interest in Babolat frames happened when I saw Moya swinging them. I was close to buying one from Europe as they hadn’t made it here yet.
 
He's kind of right as Babolat was pretty insignificant as a racquet maker until the Pure Drive which started gaining traction with Roddick but it was Nadal that pushed them to the next level into being one of the top brands today.
 
heavyD said:
He's kind of right as Babolat was pretty insignificant as a racquet maker until the Pure Drive which started gaining traction with Roddick but it was Nadal that pushed them to the next level into being one of the top brands today.
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No they were already big in 2003 when Roddick won USO.

PD was one of the most popular frames. Every high school kid had one.
 
Shaolin said:
No they were already big in 2003 when Roddick won USO.

PD was one of the most popular frames. Every high school kid had one.
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Yeah they had a hot product (hence I said the brand gained traction with Roddick and the PD) but they weren't in the discussion with Yonex, Head, and Wilson like they are today for biggest selling brands. Rafa and the PA gave them a 2nd volume frame and a generation of players that wanted to play like Rafa and use his frame. Today nearly all of the pros using Babolat racquets are using a variation of the PA which is telling that a lot of young players took to the frame. There's a small handful using the PS and even less using the PD. Rafa and the PA is the main reason Babolat is where they are today in the market. I think the company deserves credit for making good frames as the PD, PS, and PA are all very good racquets that are on par with the competition but that's only half the battle as companies like Dunlop and Pro Kennex can attest. You need to have some popular pros endorsing your frames or it's going to be tough sledding regardless of how good the product is.
 
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