Jolly's Kick Serve Challenge

D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
You have until February 1st to complete this challenge. Winners of the challenge will receive a prize from me. (US shipping only)

Set up a cone or target in line with the baseline 2 feet outside of the doubles sideline.

Standing with your front foot no further than 1 foot from the center hash, hit a serve that lands in the box and crosses the baseline outside the cone.

Post your videos in this thread.

J
for the record,... while i'm almost positive i can do this....
but i am still trying to do your serve challenge from last year :p well, my version of it anyway... particularly the deuce out wide slice serve the crosses the dubs alley before it crosses the baseline (or better if it hits the side fence)...
 
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hurworld

Hall of Fame
Ok I spent half an hour on the court earlier trying to do this. I did what @Shroud did and placed the ball can a racquet away like in his video.

Conclusion - I don't know how to do kick serve. Instead of kicking out wide upon landing, most balls curve back in to the left of the can. I suppose that means I hit them with a bit more side spin?
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
i am still trying to do your serve challenge from last year :p well, my version of it anyway... particularly the deuce out wide slice serve the crosses the dubs alley before it crosses the baseline (or better if it hits the side fence)...
Video or it didn't happen :)

Maybe in Feb when this kick serve challenge is over, we can revive the slice serve thread, since several of us are practicing our slice serves these days?
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
Video or it didn't happen :)

Maybe in Feb when this kick serve challenge is over, we can revive the slice serve thread, since several of us are practicing our slice serves these days?
i find the slice serve much harder to do... occasionally i can, but not consistently.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
i find the slice serve much harder to do... occasionally i can, but not consistently.
Have you watched video to see if you are pronating on your slice serve? (some people supinate)

Or is just an issue that you have proper mechanics but just haven't practiced enough?

I've been working on my slice serve this past year (especially on the deuce side), and am amazed how it really opens up the court off the serve! Also really opens up that deuce T serve once the opponents start respecting the slice...
 

Curious

Legend
Have you watched video to see if you are pronating on your slice serve? (some people supinate)

Or is just an issue that you have proper mechanics but just haven't practiced enough?

I've been working on my slice serve this past year (especially on the deuce side), and am amazed how it really opens up the court off the serve! Also really opens up that deuce T serve once the opponents start respecting the slice...
You must have some tips to share that helped you.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
Have you watched video to see if you are pronating on your slice serve? (some people supinate)

Or is just an issue that you have proper mechanics but just haven't practiced enough?

I've been working on my slice serve this past year (especially on the deuce side), and am amazed how it really opens up the court off the serve! Also really opens up that deuce T serve once the opponents start respecting the slice...
for me it was toss, and just getting used to where the contact is.
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
Ok I spent half an hour on the court earlier trying to do this. I did what @Shroud did and placed the ball can a racquet away like in his video.

Conclusion - I don't know how to do kick serve. Instead of kicking out wide upon landing, most balls curve back in to the left of the can. I suppose that means I hit them with a bit more side spin?
I recall Yandell describing a lesson with McEnroe and Mac saying something like "I don't want to think about how I do it" or something to that effect. Kick serve is like that for me. IIRC the first few serves I hit that day had the same left bounce. And then they started going right. Its hard to think about HOW it all comes together. contact the left side of the ball and follow through to the right. Anyhow thats why I do so great with it because half the time I dont know where the bounce will go. Had one opponent say that every kick bounced differently. I suppose that is what you want.!

Here is a vid that will probably help:
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
Ok I spent half an hour on the court earlier trying to do this. I did what @Shroud did and placed the ball can a racquet away like in his video.

Conclusion - I don't know how to do kick serve. Instead of kicking out wide upon landing, most balls curve back in to the left of the can. I suppose that means I hit them with a bit more side spin?
even better:
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
Have you watched video to see if you are pronating on your slice serve? (some people supinate)

Or is just an issue that you have proper mechanics but just haven't practiced enough?

I've been working on my slice serve this past year (especially on the deuce side), and am amazed how it really opens up the court off the serve! Also really opens up that deuce T serve once the opponents start respecting the slice...
just to elaborate... i can hit the slice serve but i can't:
a) consistently hit a short slice out wide (from deuce court as a righty), so that it lands near the sideline, ~5ft from the service line)...
b) control the difference between a "hard slice" and a "heavy slice"... i tend to hit "hard slice".. but i want a consistent heavy slicing 2nd serve that curves, and 100% confident i can get it in with direction... currently i rely 100% on my "american twist" as a 2nd serve - which is fine most times, but as i play better folks, especially tall ones, with good 2hbh returns, it becomes a sitter. i like the idea of hitting a heavier slice serve almost exclusively into the body, or as a jammer to their bh... it's also easier on my body, to hit a heavy slice, than to hit a kicker or topspin serve.
c) figure out the exact contact for a "topslice kicker"... occasionally i can hit a nasty kicking serve, but not from my usual, brushing-up-slightly-behind-the-back contact... but more from topslice contact (above or just to right of my head)...
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
just to elaborate... i can hit the slice serve but i can't:
a) consistently hit a short slice out wide (from deuce court as a righty), so that it lands near the sideline, ~5ft from the service line)...
b) control the difference between a "hard slice" and a "heavy slice"... i tend to hit "hard slice".. but i want a consistent heavy slicing 2nd serve that curves, and 100% confident i can get it in with direction... currently i rely 100% on my "american twist" as a 2nd serve - which is fine most times, but as i play better folks, especially tall ones, with good 2hbh returns, it becomes a sitter. i like the idea of hitting a heavier slice serve almost exclusively into the body, or as a jammer to their bh... it's also easier on my body, to hit a heavy slice, than to hit a kicker or topspin serve.
c) figure out the exact contact for a "topslice kicker"... occasionally i can hit a nasty kicking serve, but not from my usual, brushing-up-slightly-behind-the-back contact... but more from topslice contact (above or just to right of my head)...
Good details!

I don't want to derail Jolly's kick serve thread, so will look forward to discussing the slice serve more in February :)
 

cluckcluck

Hall of Fame
Hit a few kick serves this afternoon with a brief break in the weather. I didn't have a great setup for recording, but did my best. Video below.

First serve might need HawkEye to see the line call :) Second serve doesn't quite make it (but is closer to my normal aiming point on the 2nd serve).

Learning lessons: Jolly's challenge requires aiming higher up the sideline of the service box than what is normal for me, and incorporating a little more sidespin and little less pace than my normal topspin/kick 2nd serve. I also usually stand a couple more feet to the left on the ad side, in order to open up the serve to the BH a little more.

Will try to hit some more next time I get some indoor court time. Meanwhile, here's what trying Jolly's challenge in 50-degree weather looks like:

Nice serve, sucks you're playing on wet courts. Where in Iowa you at?
 
Nice serve, but...
Either you are only ~1.5 foot tall, or you were standing more than 1 foot from the center hash.

Which is it?
ex post facto
Video of my 13year-old son from a year ago so did not comply with 1’foot rule; he can hit that angle easy
We’re trying to hit 1/3 way in depth into the service box now
 
Late to the party. I believe I'm less than a foot away from the center hash mark and narrowly got it out wide enough. The cone I used is one of the larger ones so that + the racquet length made getting it wide enough a fun challenge. I put a pvc pipe in it to have a clearer target to pass.

 
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Shroud

G.O.A.T.
just to elaborate... i can hit the slice serve but i can't:
a) consistently hit a short slice out wide (from deuce court as a righty), so that it lands near the sideline, ~5ft from the service line)...
b) control the difference between a "hard slice" and a "heavy slice"... i tend to hit "hard slice".. but i want a consistent heavy slicing 2nd serve that curves, and 100% confident i can get it in with direction... currently i rely 100% on my "american twist" as a 2nd serve - which is fine most times, but as i play better folks, especially tall ones, with good 2hbh returns, it becomes a sitter. i like the idea of hitting a heavier slice serve almost exclusively into the body, or as a jammer to their bh... it's also easier on my body, to hit a heavy slice, than to hit a kicker or topspin serve.
c) figure out the exact contact for a "topslice kicker"... occasionally i can hit a nasty kicking serve, but not from my usual, brushing-up-slightly-behind-the-back contact... but more from topslice contact (above or just to right of my head)...
In the same boat. Slice would be a great add to my game. @J011yroger had a serial killer looking drawing where he shows how to hit slice off a kick serve toss. That serve seems to work well as a change up when you hit it.
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
It’s mostly synthetic grass I think.
@FiReFTW I thought melbourne had a lot of clay? Seems to suit the weather. My friends club had this crushed brick style clay court.
BTW when I was in Melbs I had a hit at that club in the city, do you know the one? It was fake grass but played REALLY slowly... I thought fake grass was supposed to play like grass, fast and skiddy! It was weird.

In WA theres a lot of grass, the summer league here is mostly grass. A lot of hardcourts too which we use in winter.

They say eurpoe has better tennis players because of the clay though, forces you to come up with better stratergies etc... and also forces you to develop a backhad.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
@FiReFTW I thought melbourne had a lot of clay? Seems to suit the weather. My friends club had this crushed brick style clay court.
BTW when I was in Melbs I had a hit at that club in the city, do you know the one? It was fake grass but played REALLY slowly... I thought fake grass was supposed to play like grass, fast and skiddy! It was weird.

In WA theres a lot of grass, the summer league here is mostly grass. A lot of hardcourts too which we use in winter.

They say eurpoe has better tennis players because of the clay though, forces you to come up with better stratergies etc... and also forces you to develop a backhad.
Fast courts force you to develop a backhand!

J
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
Fast courts force you to develop a backhand!

J
Interesting concept. I had a double take of that, because youre right. Maybe more for the 2hbh tho.

most of the rec guys around here on grass just slice their one hander. Im talking quality slices though, these guys are former state league players.

Whereas i started playing on hardcourt and i try to top my backhand whenever i can. Wawrinka, Thiem and Gasquet are other examples of 1hbh guys who do better on clay... slower surface more timing. But yes the slice works well on fast.

My thoughts were the 'typical American' player who has a massive 7.0 serve massive 7.0 forehand then a 4.0 backhand lol

Im telling you man we have a weird situation where i live, its mostly all grass in summer league, older guys who cant move that well anymore but have experience, the serve and the volley can chop up top juniors on grass and then get thumped by them on hard. The older guys just play summer league and skip winter trying to preseve their bodies (winter is all hard)

Its kind of like this:
Top junior/older guy: great serve (slight edge to older guy)
Top junior /older guy: great return
Older guy has better tactics
Older guy follows said return or serve into the net for a put away volley when appropriate more often than junior

On hard, there is less chance to volley
Top junior has infinite stamina and topspin to throw at top older guy, and wins most of the long rallies

Maybe not a huuuge differential but if the bulk of points are coming from serves and volleys on grass, but the bulk from topspin groundies... it has a bug differential to the outcome here
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Interesting concept. I had a double take of that, because youre right. Maybe more for the 2hbh tho.

most of the rec guys around here on grass just slice their one hander. Im talking quality slices though, these guys are former state league players.

Whereas i started playing on hardcourt and i try to top my backhand whenever i can. Wawrinka, Thiem and Gasquet are other examples of 1hbh guys who do better on clay... slower surface more timing. But yes the slice works well on fast.

My thoughts were the 'typical American' player who has a massive 7.0 serve massive 7.0 forehand then a 4.0 backhand lol

Im telling you man we have a weird situation where i live, its mostly all grass in summer league, older guys who cant move that well anymore but have experience, the serve and the volley can chop up top juniors on grass and then get thumped by them on hard. The older guys just play summer league and skip winter trying to preseve their bodies (winter is all hard)

Its kind of like this:
Top junior/older guy: great serve (slight edge to older guy)
Top junior /older guy: great return
Older guy has better tactics
Older guy follows said return or serve into the net for a put away volley when appropriate more often than junior

On hard, there is less chance to volley
Top junior has infinite stamina and topspin to throw at top older guy, and wins most of the long rallies

Maybe not a huuuge differential but if the bulk of points are coming from serves and volleys on grass, but the bulk from topspin groundies... it has a bug differential to the outcome here
I'd love to play on grass more, I'm more than capable.

J
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Interesting concept. I had a double take of that, because youre right. Maybe more for the 2hbh tho.

most of the rec guys around here on grass just slice their one hander. Im talking quality slices though, these guys are former state league players.

Whereas i started playing on hardcourt and i try to top my backhand whenever i can. Wawrinka, Thiem and Gasquet are other examples of 1hbh guys who do better on clay... slower surface more timing. But yes the slice works well on fast.

My thoughts were the 'typical American' player who has a massive 7.0 serve massive 7.0 forehand then a 4.0 backhand lol

Im telling you man we have a weird situation where i live, its mostly all grass in summer league, older guys who cant move that well anymore but have experience, the serve and the volley can chop up top juniors on grass and then get thumped by them on hard. The older guys just play summer league and skip winter trying to preseve their bodies (winter is all hard)

Its kind of like this:
Top junior/older guy: great serve (slight edge to older guy)
Top junior /older guy: great return
Older guy has better tactics
Older guy follows said return or serve into the net for a put away volley when appropriate more often than junior

On hard, there is less chance to volley
Top junior has infinite stamina and topspin to throw at top older guy, and wins most of the long rallies

Maybe not a huuuge differential but if the bulk of points are coming from serves and volleys on grass, but the bulk from topspin groundies... it has a bug differential to the outcome here
Fast courts tend to teach slice, volley, s&v, overhead and shorter backswings. (y) We didn't have grass, but some hard courts were faster than others (even at same tennis center). I always wanted the fastest hard court as a s&v player.
 
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