JRs vs Adults

MarinaHighTennis said:
true but i did lose to your guys and theyre 40+ right?
Click to expand...
but you were playing dubs and/or mostly drilling?

i think bottom line, it's a disaster trying to compare ntrp to utr... due to sandbagging, distinguishing between singles and doubles, usta regrouping for max participation, etc...
if we're gonna compare players, i think we need to just use utr to compare... and if i don't have a utr, then i need to go play some tourneys or singles matches in usta to get one.

you're a solid player (based on when you visited ny - to those following along)...

if you say you beat a 4/5 star or whatever, of if you teammate/buddy did as well, i believe you... but to use that as proof that a particular ntrp level can hang with some other rating system (stars, utr, etc...) is silly.
because there are too many variables. (sandbagging, ratings management, usta regrouping, etc...)

funny side story... years ago, a former brazilian atp player (top 500) quit the tour and moved to ny to teach .
he didn't know anyone, and was wanted to make friends and "get into the loop".
somehow a 4.0 captain recruited him.
ex-atp didn't know what "league" or "usta", etc... he just played, and this was main outlet he had to compete, having just moved to the us, and barely speaking any english...
needless to say he dominated, and they hid him in doubles for as long as they could...
few years later, he extended his tennis circle... and was played for a 5.0 team
he went undefeated (of course), and that team went to nationals...
where he was eventually bumped up to 5.5 (and therefore, at the time, no where else left to play)

anywho, you can imagine that some 4.0's might think he represented the top 4.0's of the time :p
 
rogerroger917 said:
When he is 16 he won't be allowed to play with the adults lol. Serves might hurt them.
Click to expand...


We just rally, but I have had his Mom ask for me to warm him up before tournaments. His serve is good, but at his age it just can't get a ton of pace, and it isn't anything a good 4.5 player won't crush (I play 4.0 and can get in most points fine). And I can out power him by quite a lot, but he counters very well with movement, consistency, and fitness/youth. So there is the crux of the issue when people start throwing around ratings and mixing ages in too. Can't wait to see him when he grows into his body with that skillset. Yeah, he should be banging serves and taking names.
 
nytennisaddict said:
hmmm...
https://www.myutr.com/profiles/890464 (utr11)
http://www.tennisrecord.com/adult/profile.aspx?playername=Derek Lin
* only 1y playing record... and smoked everyone... i suspect 4.5S
* likely getting bumped to 5.0

now i understand why CA (or whatever region), has <level> much stronger than <my region>...

you get a bunch of guys that self-rate...
dominate!
then you get a bunch of other folks, thinking that those dominating self-rates are representative of 4.5 (or whatever level),
and then you get someone saying... "the 4.5's in my area beat utr12 players".

i wonder if this is a form of "basking in reflected glory"... https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201112/the-psychology-sports-fans
Click to expand...
well, to be fair, that Derek player _did_ lose a game over two sets to a strong 4.5 player. So, you know, he is probably only one level underrated, although two levels is not out of the question either.... :rolleyes:
On the very USTA page of Marina's team he is listed as 5.0, and it looks like his matches were voided due to DQ. The said poster probably shall stop digging himself a bigger and bigger hole. That entire teams is, ahem, a bit underrated perhaps?
 
nytennisaddict said:
but you were playing dubs and/or mostly drilling?

i think bottom line, it's a disaster trying to compare ntrp to utr... due to sandbagging, distinguishing between singles and doubles, usta regrouping for max participation, etc...
if we're gonna compare players, i think we need to just use utr to compare... and if i don't have a utr, then i need to go play some tourneys or singles matches in usta to get one.

you're a solid player (based on when you visited ny - to those following along)...

if you say you beat a 4/5 star or whatever, of if you teammate/buddy did as well, i believe you... but to use that as proof that a particular ntrp level can hang with some other rating system (stars, utr, etc...) is silly.
because there are too many variables. (sandbagging, ratings management, usta regrouping, etc...)

funny side story... years ago, a former brazilian atp player (top 500) quit the tour and moved to ny to teach .
he didn't know anyone, and was wanted to make friends and "get into the loop".
somehow a 4.0 captain recruited him.
ex-atp didn't know what "league" or "usta", etc... he just played, and this was main outlet he had to compete, having just moved to the us, and barely speaking any english...
needless to say he dominated, and they hid him in doubles for as long as they could...
few years later, he extended his tennis circle... and was played for a 5.0 team
he went undefeated (of course), and that team went to nationals...
where he was eventually bumped up to 5.5 (and therefore, at the time, no where else left to play)

anywho, you can imagine that some 4.0's might think he represented the top 4.0's of the time :p
Click to expand...
True, I give up haha. For the 6.52, I'm actually serious haha thats what it has me as

@FiReFTW looks like 4.5 to me haha
 
jmnk said:
well, to be fair, that Derek player _did_ lose a game over two sets to a strong 4.5 player. So, you know, he is probably only one level underrated, although two levels is not out of the question either.... :rolleyes:
On the very USTA page of Marina's team he is listed as 5.0, and it looks like his matches were voided due to DQ. The said poster probably shall stop digging himself a bigger and bigger hole. That entire teams is, ahem, a bit underrated perhaps?
Click to expand...
yeah im trolling derek is a DQ 4.5 but our team actually got 2nd place still so not underrated. They may have good strokes but not necessarily the experience to win the important matches.

In addition, Derek got DQ bc the #1 team in our league wanted their player to dump his match to get derek bumped. Otherwise it wouldve been a 3 setter or a 1 break difference
 
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jmnk said:
well, to be fair, that Derek player _did_ lose a game over two sets to a strong 4.5 player. So, you know, he is probably only one level underrated, although two levels is not out of the question either.... :rolleyes:
On the very USTA page of Marina's team he is listed as 5.0, and it looks like his matches were voided due to DQ. The said poster probably shall stop digging himself a bigger and bigger hole. That entire teams is, ahem, a bit underrated perhaps?
Click to expand...
lol, the #1 player on the team with Derek Lin (#2) is also a utr11, but is managing his rating better hiding in doubles only...
 
nytennisaddict said:
lol, the #1 player on the team with Derek Lin (#2) is also a utr11, but is managing his rating better hiding in doubles only...
Click to expand...
incorrect, he happened to beat an injured player 6-3 6-0 who was highly rated and tennis record bumped him up. Our #1 on paper is in reality one of our lowest players

as for doubles to hid ratings. For club tennis > doubles is worth more points than singles so everyone specializes in doubles. Therefore, when we go into USTA we play doubles.

Format is WTT:
Rd 1: Men & Womens doubles
Rd 2: men & womens singles
Rd 3: mixed doubles
 
MarinaHighTennis said:
In addition, Derek got DQ bc the #1 team in our league wanted their player to dump his match to get derek bumped. Otherwise it wouldve been a 3 setter or a 1 break difference
Click to expand...

MarinaHighTennis said:
incorrect, he happened to beat an injured player 6-3 6-0 who was highly rated and tennis record bumped him up. Our #1 on paper is in reality one of our lowest players
Click to expand...

Dude, just stop. If Startzel is reading this he's going into cardiac arrest.
 
MarinaHighTennis said:
yeah im trolling derek is a DQ 4.5 but our team actually got 2nd place still so not underrated. They may have good strokes but not necessarily the experience to win the important matches.

In addition, Derek got DQ bc the #1 team in our league wanted their player to dump his match to get derek bumped. Otherwise it wouldve been a 3 setter or a 1 break difference
Click to expand...
this should be a sticky under 'TTW League and Ratings' Thread. Knowingly using a disqualified way-underrated player from his own team (that still plays only as #2) as an example of a 'regular adult player for a given level'. And also arguing that the said team is _not_ underrated because they took only second place.

Although I must say that an angle explaining how the other team willingly dumped a match to have a player on an opposite team disqualified - not sure if I've read that before, so kudos for creativity....
 
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jmnk said:
this should be a sticky under 'TTW League and Ratings' Thread. Knowingly using a disqualified way-underrated player from his own team (that still plays only as #2) as an example of a 'regular adult player for a given level'. And also arguing that the said team is _not_ underrated because they took only second place.

Although I must say that an angle explaining how the other team to willingly dump a match to have a player on an opposite team disqualified - not sure if I've read that before, so kudos for creativity....
Click to expand...
they admitted it to me at a player party
 
I just stay out of these discussions where everyone’s 9 year old is in the top 3 in America and beats up Challenger level players regularly and all the adults are 5.0+ and beat up 9 year old champions constantly ...
 
nytennisaddict said:
but you were playing dubs and/or mostly drilling?

i think bottom line, it's a disaster trying to compare ntrp to utr... due to sandbagging, distinguishing between singles and doubles, usta regrouping for max participation, etc...
if we're gonna compare players, i think we need to just use utr to compare... and if i don't have a utr, then i need to go play some tourneys or singles matches in usta to get one.

you're a solid player (based on when you visited ny - to those following along)...

if you say you beat a 4/5 star or whatever, of if you teammate/buddy did as well, i believe you... but to use that as proof that a particular ntrp level can hang with some other rating system (stars, utr, etc...) is silly.
because there are too many variables. (sandbagging, ratings management, usta regrouping, etc...)

funny side story... years ago, a former brazilian atp player (top 500) quit the tour and moved to ny to teach .
he didn't know anyone, and was wanted to make friends and "get into the loop".
somehow a 4.0 captain recruited him.
ex-atp didn't know what "league" or "usta", etc... he just played, and this was main outlet he had to compete, having just moved to the us, and barely speaking any english...
needless to say he dominated, and they hid him in doubles for as long as they could...
few years later, he extended his tennis circle... and was played for a 5.0 team
he went undefeated (of course), and that team went to nationals...
where he was eventually bumped up to 5.5 (and therefore, at the time, no where else left to play)

anywho, you can imagine that some 4.0's might think he represented the top 4.0's of the time :p
Click to expand...

Now I know why TTPS always used to say 3.5s hit harder than Nadal. Probably played some sandbagging ex pro.
 
nytennisaddict said:
but you were playing dubs and/or mostly drilling?

i think bottom line, it's a disaster trying to compare ntrp to utr... due to sandbagging, distinguishing between singles and doubles, usta regrouping for max participation, etc...
if we're gonna compare players, i think we need to just use utr to compare... and if i don't have a utr, then i need to go play some tourneys or singles matches in usta to get one.

you're a solid player (based on when you visited ny - to those following along)...

if you say you beat a 4/5 star or whatever, of if you teammate/buddy did as well, i believe you... but to use that as proof that a particular ntrp level can hang with some other rating system (stars, utr, etc...) is silly.
because there are too many variables. (sandbagging, ratings management, usta regrouping, etc...)

funny side story... years ago, a former brazilian atp player (top 500) quit the tour and moved to ny to teach .
he didn't know anyone, and was wanted to make friends and "get into the loop".
somehow a 4.0 captain recruited him.
ex-atp didn't know what "league" or "usta", etc... he just played, and this was main outlet he had to compete, having just moved to the us, and barely speaking any english...
needless to say he dominated, and they hid him in doubles for as long as they could...
few years later, he extended his tennis circle... and was played for a 5.0 team
he went undefeated (of course), and that team went to nationals...
where he was eventually bumped up to 5.5 (and therefore, at the time, no where else left to play)

anywho, you can imagine that some 4.0's might think he represented the top 4.0's of the time :p
Click to expand...
NuBas must’ve been playing 3.5 guys just like this who can rally for 20+ balls with 4.0s!
 
jmnk said:
this should be a sticky under 'TTW League and Ratings' Thread. Knowingly using a disqualified way-underrated player from his own team (that still plays only as #2) as an example of a 'regular adult player for a given level'. And also arguing that the said team is _not_ underrated because they took only second place.

Although I must say that an angle explaining how the other team willingly dumped a match to have a player on an opposite team disqualified - not sure if I've read that before, so kudos for creativity....
Click to expand...

MarinaHighTennis said:
they admitted it to me at a player party
Click to expand...

was that the party after that conference for captains on 'How to properly hide UTR 11 player on 4.5 team to avoid disqualification'? With special keynote speaker giving a talk on 'How to outsmart other sandbagging team by willingly having your highest rated player lose almost bagels to trigger a DQ strike for an opponent?'
 
I started taking Tennis seriously only in my 40s and have never played USTA rec tournaments. Serious question...what's the point of sandbagging? Why not just have a group of closely matched friends and play each other than misrepresent yourself and intentionally play players worse than you? What sense of accomplishment or pride does one get by beating players you know are much weaker than you are? Is there serious prize money at stake? Or are these players coaches who want to project a certain W-L record so as to keep impressing their clientele?
 
mcs1970 said:
I started taking Tennis seriously only in my 40s and have never played USTA rec tournaments. Serious question...what's the point of sandbagging? Why not just have a group of closely matched friends and play each other than misrepresent yourself and intentionally play players worse than you? What sense of accomplishment or pride does one get by beating players you know are much weaker than you are? Is there serious prize money at stake? Or are these players coaches who want to project a certain W-L record so as to keep impressing their clientele?
Click to expand...
It’s the highly coveted plastic trophy everyone is after!!! :D
 
mcs1970 said:
I started taking Tennis seriously only in my 40s and have never played USTA rec tournaments. Serious question...what's the point of sandbagging? Why not just have a group of closely matched friends and play each other than misrepresent yourself and intentionally play players worse than you? What sense of accomplishment or pride does one get by beating players you know are much weaker than you are? Is there serious prize money at stake? Or are these players coaches who want to project a certain W-L record so as to keep impressing their clientele?
Click to expand...
Well everyone I've played was pretty good and I got beaten a good amt so there was nobody weaker
 
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