Junior Tournaments/Match play effect vs Technical development

[carnaval09]

Hello there.
I've been thinking about junior player development say up until age 14 ish and real effect of countless junior tournaments and competitive match plays kids play these days from early age. What is a real benefit of these matches for a long term player development? Knowing that kids are still growing into their adult bodies which will ultimately define their play style would one be better off to concentrate on technical development instead?

 

[carnaval09]

I don't know if I'm oversimplifying it but say if you compare U16 vs U14 game there is quite a difference. The game is faster, the points are much shorter and so forth. In other words something that worked at U12-14 won't cut anymore. One can observe so many deficiencies in the game among younger players and that is why I keep asking myself would one be better off work on technical stuff instead of chasing points and rankings...??

 

[TennisBro]

I am not the pro developer to answer your questions but a father and coach of my barely 10 year old son who often participates in competitions. What I see is that my boy plays better when presented with opportunities to win and he makes a more reasonable effort in tournaments than in his practices too. Moreover, he is learning the mental parts of the game which he has been improving so much in. Interestingly, his strength and overall health seems to have also improved, since we began traveling and competing more.

Having said that however, I do see a few points in your concerns that you have addressed above. One truly is the mentioned health/well-being of the child; the other his/her technique used on the court. Tennis is a tough sport on the body and hitting balls wrongly may result in some serious consequences. I'd lie if i said I wasn't worried about my son's health but I'd also be dishonest if I said that kids do not benefit from competing more often than not. The great tennis kids from 10 to 14 that I see around are the ones that play. Those kids get a well organized mixture of development practices out of which one is the technical development while the other feedback on played matches in tournaments. Whether those fine kids will ever get the spotlight in tennis world one day remains to be seen though.

 

[TennisBro]

I don't know if I'm oversimplifying it but say if you compare U16 vs U14 game there is quite a difference. The game is faster, the points are much shorter and so forth. In other words something that worked at U12-14 won't cut anymore. One can observe so many deficiencies in the game among younger players and that is why I keep asking myself would one be better off work on technical stuff instead of chasing points and rankings...??

The transition from 14 to 16 that my son''ll have to deal with one day truly scares me. We practice the technique a lot, although I am not the best at teaching it. Also, we get a lot to how to hit the balls faster and into the right places, so that we have the best chance with the best. Many younger kids truly go on with the long rallies and slower/more careful hits that I try to tell my boy not to follow. Whether I am right or wrong remains in the clouds today.

 

[carnaval09]

Moreover, he is learning the mental parts of the game which he has been improving so much in. Interestingly, his strength and overall health seems to have also improved, since we began traveling and competing more.

One would probably also expect natural improvements in these areas as a kid get older and matures...
I agree that kids do need to compete, in my mind, however, as a good boxer only possibly from time to time...
I'm no tennis coach, grew up playing soccer for a long time and remembering myself I just didn't get the game up until 12 years old or so due to just being a kid. I played a LOT but wasn't able to make decent decisions on the field up until one day it's just clicked in and that's when my level took off. So I kinda look at it thinking I would had been better off concentrating on technical skills instead as I don't believe all that game time really benefited me back then...

 

[carnaval09]

Many younger kids truly go on with the long rallies and slower/more careful hits that I try to tell my boy not to follow. Whether I am right or wrong remains in the clouds today.

Well, that is part of it... Most kids being programmed at early ages by coaches/parents simple things that yield quick results aka play to opponents back hand, loop a ball, keep rallying. That is why their play so predictable at this age and mostly this game style have little affect on their future. I believe average ATP rallies length 5 shots ish...

 

[spun_out]

Hello there.
I've been thinking about junior player development say up until age 14 ish and real effect of countless junior tournaments and competitive match plays kids play these days from early age. What is a real benefit of these matches for a long term player development? Knowing that kids are still growing into their adult bodies which will ultimately define their play style would one be better off to concentrate on technical development instead?

It's interesting that these questions are always posed in the either or form. Being able to do the right thing under pressure of winning is a skill. Kids need to learn it just like anything else. Of course, ratio between competition and practice can be argued.

 

[TennisBro]

One would probably also expect natural improvements in these areas as a kid get older and matures...
I agree that kids do need to compete, in my mind, however, as a good boxer only possibly from time to time...
I'm no tennis coach, grew up playing soccer for a long time and remembering myself I just didn't get the game up until 12 years old or so due to just being a kid. I played a LOT but wasn't able to make decent decisions on the field up until one day it's just clicked in and that's when my level took off. So I kinda look at it thinking I would had been better off concentrating on technical skills instead as I don't believe all that game time really benefited me back then...

I also played soccer. At 17, I turned pro but at 19 I gave up. Anyway, that was many moons ago. Today, kids in soccer rock the field at 12; if they don't, they'll be more likely doomed. Similarly, 12 year old kids are really cool on tennis courts these days. The bar in 10 years time will be higher in both sports.

 

[dominikk1985]

Hello there.
I've been thinking about junior player development say up until age 14 ish and real effect of countless junior tournaments and competitive match plays kids play these days from early age. What is a real benefit of these matches for a long term player development? Knowing that kids are still growing into their adult bodies which will ultimately define their play style would one be better off to concentrate on technical development instead?

Until age 13-14 technique is definitely more important but it helps to get to play guys who hit hard. This is like in baseball. Swing mechanics are of course important but to play pro ball you need to hit 90, just being able to hit 75 great won't be enough.

Same is true in tennis, you need to be able to handle 120mph serves and 70mph groundies to make the highest level. If you have a perfect swing but all you do is hitting 30 mph feeds you will struggle against good opponents.

 

[barringer97]

Every kid is different, but I do feel that have some sort of tournament experience is beneficial. My daughter is starting to come into her own in the (12-14) range and we are doing the national tournament route, but not as intense as others. She is starting to take it to the next level while others are burning out or becoming physically over matched.

Now, I am going through it with my son who is younger. He is way better than my daughter was at the same age but also doesn't want to play as much. He loves hoops, so I have to be careful with him. With him, less tourneys for sure.

Personally, I think you play it by ear and go from there. Tournaments can be brutal, especially if they don't have any friends there. If the tournament is more of a social event, you kind of get the best of both worlds...where they have fun and want to compete.

 

[carnaval09]

Being able to do the right thing under pressure of winning is a skill. Kids need to learn it just like anything else.

I agree. The question is do you really need to spend that much time competing at early age to learn this skill? Tennis is a "mental game" and quote "Being able to do the right thing under pressure of winning is a skill" is part of it. Well, in most cases mental training is introduced at around age 12-13 ....

 

[carnaval09]

Today, kids in soccer rock the field at 12; if they don't, they'll be more likely doomed.

Soccer being is team sport is different as unless you are good enough to be on the top team you aren't part of that environment.

[/QUOTE]Similarly, 12 year old kids are really cool on tennis courts these days. The bar in 10 years time will be higher in both sports.[/QUOTE]
Sure, junior sports is a huge business now and academies/coaches try to capitalize on it.
It becomes a mass effect/a trend that a lot of parents follow thinking if you aren't in and part of it you are doomed. Young kids being home schooled, travel across the country to play big tournaments, it's crazy. While the bar has been getting higher and higher we still have only a few ATP players winning big tournaments and all of that supposedly extra competitive training new generations went through is yet to pay off. We don't see new Nadals, Changs, Safins and etc winning big slams at young ages. Am I missing something here?

 

[ChaelAZ]

What is a real benefit of these matches for a long term player development? Knowing that kids are still growing into their adult bodies which will ultimately define their play style would one be better off to concentrate on technical development instead?

Court positioning (real time, not setup), situational patterns, comfort in performance, expectation management, match flow, court IQ, self-efficacy, overall competitiveness...those are non-aged skills sets that transcend technique.

 

[Traffic]

I agree. The question is do you really need to spend that much time competing at early age to learn this skill? Tennis is a "mental game" and quote "Being able to do the right thing under pressure of winning is a skill" is part of it. Well, in most cases mental training is introduced at around age 12-13 ....

The #1 and #2 boys on my son's varsity team started playing USTA matches since age 6. To them, stepping on the court is similar to grabbing a Nintendo game pad. They are so comfortable in that competition environment.

As pointed out, these players are also going through countless hours of drills and private coaching sessions. So they are getting well rounded.

The competition, imho, is important to bring it all together. It adds purpose to practice and coaching session. Also, shots don't mean squat if you can't pull them off under pressure.

My daughter is 11 and we'll start her in USTA matches next month or at least this summer. My son started at age 13. When he started playing tournaments, his mental improvement skyrocketed.

Also, if you look at group classes, you can tell the kids that have tournament experience and those that don't. The ones with experience are digging every ball and giving 100% during practice. They are more focused.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

One would probably also expect natural improvements in these areas as a kid get older and matures...
I agree that kids do need to compete, in my mind, however, as a good boxer only possibly from time to time...
I'm no tennis coach, grew up playing soccer for a long time and remembering myself I just didn't get the game up until 12 years old or so due to just being a kid. I played a LOT but wasn't able to make decent decisions on the field up until one day it's just clicked in and that's when my level took off. So I kinda look at it thinking I would had been better off concentrating on technical skills instead as I don't believe all that game time really benefited me back then...

in general, i think you need the game, to understand why you're working on the technical.
coaching soccer now, for example, if i just worked on the technical (ie. messi touches, various fakes, etc..) kids get bored... not understanding why we're doing all these drills... until a game, when they make a mistake, or are beaten by a move, regularly... then they are motivated to drill practice.
similarly in tennis... why not keep bunty strokes or frying pan serves... if it beats my fellow beginner... until they play in a match, and have to respond to getting beat by someone pushier, or hits harder, etc....

while it's true, long slowish rallies at b12 might not work at b14... but having the confidence to be able to stay out there and hit 10+ ball rallies consistently, goes a long way, to eventually being able to hit bigger, with similar consistency.
IMO the best would be a combination of playing up to say b14, figuring out what you'll need, practice those things, then using them at b12

 

[TennisBro]

Sure, junior sports is a huge business now and academies/coaches try to capitalize on it.
It becomes a mass effect/a trend that a lot of parents follow thinking if you aren't in and part of it you are doomed. Young kids being home schooled, travel across the country to play big tournaments, it's crazy. While the bar has been getting higher and higher we still have only a few ATP players winning big tournaments and all of that supposedly extra competitive training new generations went through is yet to pay off. We don't see new Nadals, Changs, Safins and etc winning big slams at young ages. Am I missing something here?

I see a degree of resistance from some coaches that kids participate in the youth tennis tournaments frequently. One of the local tennis trainers in the town where I am is uncomfortable when his kids travel to tournaments as he's having a hard time providing feedback on their individual matches and as some of those tournaments take too much time in which he's unable to develop those kids further. Another issue I guess some coaches may have is that they not only lose time (during tournaments) but also some fees for lessons they could get paid for if kids where in regular practise instead of tournaments. In the case of the local tennis coach that works on the next court to me is that he gets paid by the local government office (that has a youth development program) monthly and the traveling/extra work providing feedback to kids who compete is not compensated accordingly. Needless to say how parents react to their kids' loses after the tournaments.

One of the reasons why you don't see the Nadals, Changs or Safins in the current young ATP talent is that you still have Nadal and Federer. Both of those guys are exeptional athletes of the generation. Another reason may be the wrong approach to tennis at early stages of kids' development in which discipline is not a major issue but money is. Kids may not get valuable lessons and they (their parents inclusive) get false hopes. Here in Hunan China, some parents of 10-12-14 year olds think how great their kids are when they win a local tennis tournament. When I tell them their kid is weak, they get so pissed off at me and say I don't know tennis well enough (I truly am not a tennis coach). Well, once they get to play on the national level, they fail; there's only one 12 year old kid in Hunan who can do it. Honestly, I don't think this one kid will ever be able to measure up to Nadal or Federer as when he gets to compete at the international scale, he may have to cope with issues beyond his reach. Why so? This kid does not have a competition in Hunan 'cause he mostly has to play with some mediocre kids! That's why!

So, what we may be missing here is the competition and commitment to sport. The opportunity to play with the best isn't available for everyone. Then, some coaches hate to make their kids cry for they fear losing them (their parents' interests). I don't think that little Rafa smiled so often when his uncle unleashed the impossible tennis practices or put the bar at the highest during Rafa's youth tennis tournaments.

 

[Postpre]

I see a degree of resistance from some coaches that kids participate in the youth tennis tournaments frequently. One of the local tennis trainers in the town where I am is uncomfortable when his kids travel to tournaments as he's having a hard time providing feedback on their individual matches and as some of those tournaments take too much time in which he's unable to develop those kids further. Another issue I guess some coaches may have is that they not only lose time (during tournaments) but also some fees for lessons they could get paid for if kids where in regular practise instead of tournaments. In the case of the local tennis coach that works on the next court to me is that he gets paid by the local government office (that has a youth development program) monthly and the traveling/extra work providing feedback to kids who compete is not compensated accordingly. Needless to say how parents react to their kids' loses after the tournaments.

One of the reasons why you don't see the Nadals, Changs or Safins in the current young ATP talent is that you still have Nadal and Federer. Both of those guys are exeptional athletes of the generation. Another reason may be the wrong approach to tennis at early stages of kids' development in which discipline is not a major issue but money is. Kids may not get valuable lessons and they (their parents inclusive) get false hopes. Here in Hunan China, some parents of 10-12-14 year olds think how great their kids are when they win a local tennis tournament. When I tell them their kid is weak, they get so pissed off at me and say I don't know tennis well enough (I truly am not a tennis coach). Well, once they get to play on the national level, they fail; there's only one 12 year old kid in Hunan who can do it. Honestly, I don't think this one kid will ever be able to measure up to Nadal or Federer as when he gets to compete at the international scale, he may have to cope with issues beyond his reach. Why so? This kid does not have a competition in Hunan 'cause he mostly has to play with some mediocre kids! That's why!

So, what we may be missing here is the competition and commitment to sport. The opportunity to play with the best isn't available for everyone. Then, some coaches hate to make their kids cry for they fear losing them (their parents' interests). I don't think that little Rafa smiled so often when his uncle unleashed the impossible tennis practices or put the bar at the highest during Rafa's youth tennis tournaments.

Um...Ok.

 

[jcgatennismom]

Hello there.
I've been thinking about junior player development say up until age 14 ish and real effect of countless junior tournaments and competitive match plays kids play these days from early age. What is a real benefit of these matches for a long term player development? Knowing that kids are still growing into their adult bodies which will ultimately define their play style would one be better off to concentrate on technical development instead?

I think players need a mix of matches and drills to develop, but players do not have to necessarily to go the expensive USTA tournament route. Some other options are to play against an older and higher ranked hitting partner with coach watching, set up local challenge ladders, play local UTR tournaments, etc. As a parent of a player who currently plays D1 college tennis, I think I could have spent a lot less $ on tournaments and travel in the 12s and 14s and he would have still ended up at the same level. My son really didnt jump up in level until he grew-he went from 5'5 in spring of his freshmen year and 115 lbs to 6'2 160lbs by the time he enrolled in college 3 years later. The drills he took helped him develop skills but until he grew, he could not capitalize on them. He was a 3 or barely 4 star before he grew, but a 5 star afterwards. Just hitting with better players can improve a player's game, especially if coaches are watching and giving tips afterwards. Kids love a challenge. You give a middle school player the chance to play a high school player or a high school player a college player, and the younger player will go all out and try to compete even if it is not a tournament. However, players do need to compete in some tournaments but again they can be local-maybe playing local men's opens if the local juniors are too easy. Once a kids turns 16, then spend the $ on national tournaments if the kid is at that level. Sometimes the toughest matches to play are those players are expected to win but the lower ranked opponent is playing amazing. You definitely cant have player just playing arranged matches vs higher ranked players. It is easy to be mentally tough when you are not expected to win. Players need to learn how to manage the momentum changes. My son used to play 80-100 tournament matches a year; if we did it over maybe we would do 20-40 tournament matches with a lot of practice matchplay to make up the rest in his younger years. Son did play high school varsity tennis which is also a good and cheap option if the matches will be challenging for your player. In our region, tennis was strong so HS opponents were often the same players he might meet at a sectional USTA tournament. However, in some areas, HS tennis is very weak.

Start with simple goals. When my son was in middle school, we were not aiming for him to play college tennis; we just hoped he could make the varsity high school team as a freshman. It was not until he was a soph in HS, we realized college tennis was a real option. Playing club tennis in college is another option that is satisfying for many kids.

 

[carnaval09]

Court positioning (real time, not setup), situational patterns, comfort in performance, expectation management, match flow, court IQ, self-efficacy, overall competitiveness...those are non-aged skills sets that transcend technique.

Good points. However, some of these skills universal and if a kid plays other sports along with tennis they would get improved

 

[carnaval09]

while it's true, long slowish rallies at b12 might not work at b14... but having the confidence to be able to stay out there and hit 10+ ball rallies consistently, goes a long way, to eventually being able to hit bigger, with similar consistency.
IMO the best would be a combination of playing up to say b14, figuring out what you'll need, practice those things, then using them at b12[/QUOTE]

From what I can tell there is quite a difference in game styles U12 vs U14 so I'm not sure it would be that beneficial. Kids tend to loop balls in U12 and while it work in U12 won't necessary cut in U14.

 

[ace18]

I think players need a mix of matches and drills to develop, but players do not have to necessarily to go the expensive USTA tournament route. Some other options are to play against an older and higher ranked hitting partner with coach watching, set up local challenge ladders, play local UTR tournaments, etc. As a parent of a player who currently plays D1 college tennis, I think I could have spent a lot less $ on tournaments and travel in the 12s and 14s and he would have still ended up at the same level. My son really didnt jump up in level until he grew-he went from 5'5 in spring of his freshmen year and 115 lbs to 6'2 160lbs by the time he enrolled in college 3 years later. The drills he took helped him develop skills but until he grew, he could not capitalize on them. He was a 3 or barely 4 star before he grew, but a 5 star afterwards. Just hitting with better players can improve a player's game, especially if coaches are watching and giving tips afterwards. Kids love a challenge. You give a middle school player the chance to play a high school player or a high school player a college player, and the younger player will go all out and try to compete even if it is not a tournament. However, players do need to compete in some tournaments but again they can be local-maybe playing local men's opens if the local juniors are too easy. Once a kids turns 16, then spend the $ on national tournaments if the kid is at that level. Sometimes the toughest matches to play are those players are expected to win but the lower ranked opponent is playing amazing. You definitely cant have player just playing arranged matches vs higher ranked players. It is easy to be mentally tough when you are not expected to win. Players need to learn how to manage the momentum changes. My son used to play 80-100 tournament matches a year; if we did it over maybe we would do 20-40 tournament matches with a lot of practice matchplay to make up the rest in his younger years. Son did play high school varsity tennis which is also a good and cheap option if the matches will be challenging for your player. In our region, tennis was strong so HS opponents were often the same players he might meet at a sectional USTA tournament. However, in some areas, HS tennis is very weak.

Start with simple goals. When my son was in middle school, we were not aiming for him to play college tennis; we just hoped he could make the varsity high school team as a freshman. It was not until he was a soph in HS, we realized college tennis was a real option. Playing club tennis in college is another option that is satisfying for many kids.

I like your points, a lot. My son trained hard while he was 13-14, academy, private coach, tournaments. After awhile, he got tired of it and didn't want to play any longer. The key during that time period was that he developed very good technique and hit a lot of balls. He played USTA team tennis only for the last year or so, more fun than anything else. As a freshman this year, he made varsity, played 1D for first half of season and moved up to 2S. He's played several Juniors and Seniors that are much bigger, much stronger and highly rated in our state. He got beaten badly by a few and did well against a few. Looking these guys up, they've played 80 and 90 tournament matches over the last year, my son, zero. Considering how experienced they are in comparison to my son, he performed pretty well. Maybe he has missed out by not playing all of these tourneys but I like his development this spring. He improved so much over the HS season by playing 2 and 3 matches a week and against very strong competition. He still had a winning record and pushed some highly rated guys. 2 years ago I would have pushed for all those tourney matches, as I look back in retrospect, I'm glad it happened the way it did.

 

[carnaval09]

The #1 and #2 boys on my son's varsity team started playing USTA matches since age 6. To them, stepping on the court is similar to grabbing a Nintendo game pad. They are so comfortable in that competition environment.

As pointed out, these players are also going through countless hours of drills and private coaching sessions. So they are getting well rounded.

The competition, imho, is important to bring it all together. It adds purpose to practice and coaching session. Also, shots don't mean squat if you can't pull them off under pressure.

My daughter is 11 and we'll start her in USTA matches next month or at least this summer. My son started at age 13. When he started playing tournaments, his mental improvement skyrocketed.

Also, if you look at group classes, you can tell the kids that have tournament experience and those that don't. The ones with experience are digging every ball and giving 100% during practice. They are more focused.

Not knowing how many matches/tournaments those boys played it's hard to say if they would feel just as confident if they started playing competitively later. We played our first USTA tournament probably around 8 y.o. as he always hated to loose and wasn't able to manage his emotions.
However, as the time passed by that part started improving as he just got older and more mature. We don't play a lot of tournaments ( a handful a year, state, regional and once national) as I always believed in cross sports and let him play basketball and competitive soccer. He just turned 13 and played his first U14 tournament since last summer as he coped with growing pains and I decided not to force him to play. We did continue to practice a few hours a week though. He would get nervous in the past especially in his first match but now when I ask him if he does he looks at me puzzled saying why would I get nervous. So what I'm saying a kid is naturally going to get more mature as we all do. Not competing much for the last year still my sons understanding of the game and maturity level increased so much. He had a hard time staying focused and couldn't really draw accurate conclusion as to why he won or lost or even remember points. It's a lot less of the problem now.

 

[carnaval09]

I think players need a mix of matches and drills to develop, but players do not have to necessarily to go the expensive USTA tournament route. Some other options are to play against an older and higher ranked hitting partner with coach watching, set up local challenge ladders, play local UTR tournaments, etc. As a parent of a player who currently plays D1 college tennis, I think I could have spent a lot less $ on tournaments and travel in the 12s and 14s and he would have still ended up at the same level. My son really didnt jump up in level until he grew-he went from 5'5 in spring of his freshmen year and 115 lbs to 6'2 160lbs by the time he enrolled in college 3 years later. The drills he took helped him develop skills but until he grew, he could not capitalize on them. He was a 3 or barely 4 star before he grew, but a 5 star afterwards. Just hitting with better players can improve a player's game, especially if coaches are watching and giving tips afterwards. Kids love a challenge. You give a middle school player the chance to play a high school player or a high school player a college player, and the younger player will go all out and try to compete even if it is not a tournament. However, players do need to compete in some tournaments but again they can be local-maybe playing local men's opens if the local juniors are too easy. Once a kids turns 16, then spend the $ on national tournaments if the kid is at that level. Sometimes the toughest matches to play are those players are expected to win but the lower ranked opponent is playing amazing. You definitely cant have player just playing arranged matches vs higher ranked players. It is easy to be mentally tough when you are not expected to win. Players need to learn how to manage the momentum changes. My son used to play 80-100 tournament matches a year; if we did it over maybe we would do 20-40 tournament matches with a lot of practice matchplay to make up the rest in his younger years. Son did play high school varsity tennis which is also a good and cheap option if the matches will be challenging for your player. In our region, tennis was strong so HS opponents were often the same players he might meet at a sectional USTA tournament. However, in some areas, HS tennis is very weak.

Start with simple goals. When my son was in middle school, we were not aiming for him to play college tennis; we just hoped he could make the varsity high school team as a freshman. It was not until he was a soph in HS, we realized college tennis was a real option. Playing club tennis in college is another option that is satisfying for many kids.

 

[carnaval09]

I think players need a mix of matches and drills to develop, but players do not have to necessarily to go the expensive USTA tournament route. Some other options are to play against an older and higher ranked hitting partner with coach watching, set up local challenge ladders, play local UTR tournaments, etc. As a parent of a player who currently plays D1 college tennis, I think I could have spent a lot less $ on tournaments and travel in the 12s and 14s and he would have still ended up at the same level. My son really didnt jump up in level until he grew-he went from 5'5 in spring of his freshmen year and 115 lbs to 6'2 160lbs by the time he enrolled in college 3 years later. The drills he took helped him develop skills but until he grew, he could not capitalize on them. He was a 3 or barely 4 star before he grew, but a 5 star afterwards. Just hitting with better players can improve a player's game, especially if coaches are watching and giving tips afterwards. Kids love a challenge. You give a middle school player the chance to play a high school player or a high school player a college player, and the younger player will go all out and try to compete even if it is not a tournament. However, players do need to compete in some tournaments but again they can be local-maybe playing local men's opens if the local juniors are too easy. Once a kids turns 16, then spend the $ on national tournaments if the kid is at that level. Sometimes the toughest matches to play are those players are expected to win but the lower ranked opponent is playing amazing. You definitely cant have player just playing arranged matches vs higher ranked players. It is easy to be mentally tough when you are not expected to win. Players need to learn how to manage the momentum changes. My son used to play 80-100 tournament matches a year; if we did it over maybe we would do 20-40 tournament matches with a lot of practice matchplay to make up the rest in his younger years. Son did play high school varsity tennis which is also a good and cheap option if the matches will be challenging for your player. In our region, tennis was strong so HS opponents were often the same players he might meet at a sectional USTA tournament. However, in some areas, HS tennis is very weak.

Start with simple goals. When my son was in middle school, we were not aiming for him to play college tennis; we just hoped he could make the varsity high school team as a freshman. It was not until he was a soph in HS, we realized college tennis was a real option. Playing club tennis in college is another option that is satisfying for many kids.

Thanks for sharing your story and that is exactly what I was asking/thinking about. We live in the area where tennis is fairly tough. Have academy where several top national players train from U12-16.
As I said earlier my son just turned 13 and at about 5'5" tall has different ability now and slowly starting capitalizing on what we've been working all alone with his private coach. He always had a loose arm but couldn't really use it to his advantage as he was just not strong enough. Now his forehand becoming a real weapon, he always had great back hand as he is somewhat ambidextrous and now his first and second serve coming along nicely with kick serve kicking up to his heights. I can only imagine how much more it would change if he grows to be 6"-6'2".

 

[Ash_Smith]

Hello there.
I've been thinking about junior player development say up until age 14 ish and real effect of countless junior tournaments and competitive match plays kids play these days from early age. What is a real benefit of these matches for a long term player development? Knowing that kids are still growing into their adult bodies which will ultimately define their play style would one be better off to concentrate on technical development instead?

Why do the two things have to be exclusive? Competition is the best training environment you can get - given that we know that the best training environment is one which is as close to the competition environment as possible.

It all depends on how the coach/athlete approach competition - treat tournaments as more training and it creates a very different mindset.

 

[carnaval09]

Why do the two things have to be exclusive? Competition is the best training environment you can get - given that we know that the best training environment is one which is as close to the competition environment as possible.

It all depends on how the coach/athlete approach competition - treat tournaments as more training and it creates a very different mindset.

They don’t need to be exclusive from each other.

However, the question is how beneficial they are up until U14 and the right frequency of tournaments if you will?


Maybe to clarify I’d look at what I observe happening a lot and that is why I brought it up.

Scenario 1. 11 year old boy about 4’10” or so has a OH backhand. Due to lack of strength he really can’t use this shot effectively and most of the time really has to move way back. His opponent seeing this starts looping balls to his BH waiting on a short ball to come back. So my question is, what actually this kid with OH backhand is learning in this game environment that would benefit him in 2-3 years or so down the road when he get to much bigger and stronger and naturally start using his OH backhand more offensively?


Scenario 2. Kid has a growth spur (4-6” a year) which affects his movement temporarily as all of a sudden he isn’t as coordinate and as fast as he once was. It takes time for him to catch up with his new body. He continues to play competitively and getting outplayed as he struggles with his movement. What is he learning here? His movements sucks and that affects his overall confidence??


Scenario 3. Say 12 y.o. drops his elbow on the serve due to overall strength which affects his serve a lot. He plays a tournament and his elbow is dropping lower and lower as a match progresses. He serve % drops a lot and double faults start cripping in. Coach can’t correct it right there and poor kid has nothing to do but just make a serve in. He gets crushed with return winners but really can’t do much about it. The frustration goes up and his level of play down. What is the long term lesson here for this kid?


Anyway, this is just a few examples I see when I watch kids play and that is why I started thinking about it.

 

[carnaval09]

They don’t need to be exclusive from each other.

However, the question is how beneficial they are up until U14 and the right frequency of tournaments if you will?


Maybe to clarify I’d look at what I observe happening a lot and that is why I brought it up.

Scenario 1. 11 year old boy about 4’10” or so has a OH backhand. Due to lack of strength he really can’t use this shot effectively and most of the time really has to move way back. His opponent seeing this starts looping balls to his BH waiting on a short ball to come back. So my question is, what actually this kid with OH backhand is learning in this game environment that would benefit him in 2-3 years or so down the road when he get to much bigger and stronger and naturally start using his OH backhand more offensively?


Scenario 2. Kid has a growth spur (4-6” a year) which affects his movement temporarily as all of a sudden he isn’t as coordinate and as fast as he once was. It takes time for him to catch up with his new body. He continues to play competitively and getting outplayed as he struggles with his movement. What is he learning here? His movements sucks and that affects his overall confidence??


Scenario 3. Say 12 y.o. drops his elbow on the serve due to overall strength which affects his serve a lot. He plays a tournament and his elbow is dropping lower and lower as a match progresses. He serve % drops a lot and double faults start cripping in. Coach can’t correct it right there and poor kid has nothing to do but just make a serve in. He gets crushed with return winners but really can’t do much about it. The frustration goes up and his level of play down. What is the long term lesson here for this kid?


Anyway, this is just a few examples I see when I watch kids play and that is why I started thinking about it.

Just to add up to possible outcome of either of these scenarios. I think naturally one of these kids won't be able to win as many matches as otherwise they could've and majority of these issues would be solved naturally once a kid gets stronger, taller and etc. Now, knowing these crazy tennis parents out there this kid gets scolded a lot more for no faults of his own. That is where relationships get shuttered, confidence and simple love for the game. I see it way too often and that's why it bothers me.

 

[TennisBro]

Scenario 1. 11 year old boy about 4’10” or so has a OH backhand. Due to lack of strength he really can’t use this shot effectively and most of the time really has to move way back. His opponent seeing this starts looping balls to his BH waiting on a short ball to come back. So my question is, what actually this kid with OH backhand is learning in this game environment that would benefit him in 2-3 years or so down the road when he get to much bigger and stronger and naturally start using his OH backhand more offensively?

I think Djoker used his childhood experience to switch from OH backhand to the current one that has served his so well.

Scenario 2. Kid has a growth spur (4-6” a year) which affects his movement temporarily as all of a sudden he isn’t as coordinate and as fast as he once was. It takes time for him to catch up with his new body. He continues to play competitively and getting outplayed as he struggles with his movement. What is he learning here? His movements sucks and that affects his overall confidence??

We all learn as we grow/get older and so does the kid. I'd like to think that learning is a continuous process which begins at early ages of our lives and ends when we die.

Scenario 3. Say 12 y.o. drops his elbow on the serve due to overall strength which affects his serve a lot. He plays a tournament and his elbow is dropping lower and lower as a match progresses. He serve % drops a lot and double faults start cripping in. Coach can’t correct it right there and poor kid has nothing to do but just make a serve in. He gets crushed with return winners but really can’t do much about it. The frustration goes up and his level of play down. What is the long term lesson here for this kid?

I saw this exact situation happening to a great Chinese kid (from Shanghai) in U12 last year. In fact, the kid began faulting when the government pros started to look after him sometimes in May/June 2017. By October (the same year), I witnessed some awful serving practices from this fantastic young kid. Yes, he may have grown a bit; and, yes, he may have got stressed and annoyed by all the directions. Yet, saying that playing tournaments at early ages is detrimental 'cause kids grow fast is, in my humble opinion, more misleading than claiming that it is helpful. In any case, this Shanghai kid is amazing; instructions to him ought to be adjusted as well as some routines he does.

On second thought, I see your concerns as valuable and I also am worried my son who's gonna be 10 in Summer is harmfully busy playing so many tournaments. Every morning, I wake up with worries what may happen the next day and after that. I guess it's really hard to tell what's better for a kid and/or what's not. The growth, health, chemistry, talent, skills gained throughout the kid's life, the approach to practices/daily regiment etc. may one day determine where the youngster will be.

 

[carnaval09]

I think Djoker used his childhood experience to switch from OH backhand to the current one that has served his so well.

Sure, but was it really a direct outcome of the tournaments? I believe he changed it way way early and not sure if he publically admitted that competitive matches made him change it. I do remember he said he was very weak.

We all learn as we grow/get older and so does the kid. I'd like to think that learning is a continuous process which begins at early ages of our lives and ends when we die.

Absolutely, no arguments here. However, we all go through periods when our ability to learn and its pace vary due to different circumstances at any given moment/period. And we tend to learn quicker when our minds, bodies and etc. correlate with task complexity.

Yet, saying that playing tournaments at early ages is detrimental 'cause kids grow fast is, in my humble opinion, more misleading than claiming that it is helpful. In any case, this Shanghai kid is amazing; instructions to him ought to be adjusted as well as some routines he does.

I don’t want to be misunderstood and do personally believe that tournaments is a crucial attribute in developing competitive player. However, I do question their benefits at early ages due to certain aspects I mentioned in this thread.

I spoke with a coach from Belgium who trained with D. Goffin back in his junior time and he did say they didn’t really play any tournaments up until age 14 or so. Their approach was to concentrate on players development first. That exactly what he told me and I thought it was interesting.

 

[TennisBro]

Sure, but was it really a direct outcome of the tournaments? I believe he changed it way way early and not sure if he publically admitted that competitive matches made him change it. I do remember he said he was very weak.

To my knowledge, Novak D admitted that he switched to two-handed backhand for kids in youth tournaments picked on his OH one too much.

we all go through periods when our ability to learn and its pace vary due to different circumstances at any given moment/period. And we tend to learn quicker when our minds, bodies and etc. correlate with task complexity.

This is the truth. I can already see how much better my 9 and a half year old son's eye coordination is today than it was a year ago. Tennis is a sport that requires a bit more from the athlete than some other sports do.

don’t want to be misunderstood and do personally believe that tournaments is a crucial attribute in developing competitive player. However, I do question their benefits at early ages due to certain aspects I mentioned in this thread.

I don't think you're misunderstood as you have made some valid point on the forum. Agreeably, 14-16 year olds may be able to learn more from their competitive matches than 10-12 year olds do.

 

[TennisBro]

Ok. Last weekend, my little son participated in a semi-formal U10 provincial tournament in China where kids often compete in a spin of two days. He had to play 7 (6-game set) matches from 8 AM one moring to 2 PM the next day out of which he won all but one. The routine in Chinese tennis tournaments is arranged for partents/kids to be able to come/check into hotels for a night or two and then get back to their daily life again. To my knowledge, the only formal tennis tournament that's stretched into the whole week in China is the Nike sponsored U12 (and parhaps U14) one that's played yearly in Shenzhen, Wuhan, Shanghai (and I think a couple other Chinese cities too). Otherwise, kids at the highest level are used to play hard and a lot around here. To get to the point of the OP here, I see this trend concerning on one hand as the health of the youngsters is at question but advantageous as not only that the early birds get built up and are provided with more opportunities to not only play but also practice during the work week (when tournaments aren't on). Anyhow, I am off to the court to prepare my boy for another two-day tour in Chendu Sichuan where Zheng Jie is from and where she is organizing her national kiddie Cup quest.

 

[JMO]

I think players need a mix of matches and drills to develop, but players do not have to necessarily to go the expensive USTA tournament route. Some other options are to play against an older and higher ranked hitting partner with coach watching, set up local challenge ladders, play local UTR tournaments, etc. As a parent of a player who currently plays D1 college tennis, I think I could have spent a lot less $ on tournaments and travel in the 12s and 14s and he would have still ended up at the same level. My son really didnt jump up in level until he grew-he went from 5'5 in spring of his freshmen year and 115 lbs to 6'2 160lbs by the time he enrolled in college 3 years later. The drills he took helped him develop skills but until he grew, he could not capitalize on them. He was a 3 or barely 4 star before he grew, but a 5 star afterwards. Just hitting with better players can improve a player's game, especially if coaches are watching and giving tips afterwards. Kids love a challenge. You give a middle school player the chance to play a high school player or a high school player a college player, and the younger player will go all out and try to compete even if it is not a tournament. However, players do need to compete in some tournaments but again they can be local-maybe playing local men's opens if the local juniors are too easy. Once a kids turns 16, then spend the $ on national tournaments if the kid is at that level. Sometimes the toughest matches to play are those players are expected to win but the lower ranked opponent is playing amazing. You definitely cant have player just playing arranged matches vs higher ranked players. It is easy to be mentally tough when you are not expected to win. Players need to learn how to manage the momentum changes. My son used to play 80-100 tournament matches a year; if we did it over maybe we would do 20-40 tournament matches with a lot of practice matchplay to make up the rest in his younger years. Son did play high school varsity tennis which is also a good and cheap option if the matches will be challenging for your player. In our region, tennis was strong so HS opponents were often the same players he might meet at a sectional USTA tournament. However, in some areas, HS tennis is very weak.

Start with simple goals. When my son was in middle school, we were not aiming for him to play college tennis; we just hoped he could make the varsity high school team as a freshman. It was not until he was a soph in HS, we realized college tennis was a real option. Playing club tennis in college is another option that is satisfying for many kids.

@jcgatennismom Your reply here caught my attention. My kid is 10 and will turn 11 (6th grade).
I support my kid and would love to see him playing HS varsity, but he may also start a middle school team.
Don't want to put the pressure on, but we also have the idea that there’s a college path if you really become good during those years.
I still keep my expectations low, but I keep my goals (if not my son), as long as he wants to play.

My question to you:

1.) Did your kid attend a full tennis academy?
2.) How long has he been with the private coach and group tennis?
3.) Did your son join middle school tennis? I noticed that there are a few (if not many) trying to join the middle school team who are beginners and made it to the middle school team, not sure if my son would benefit from that — thinking if he just spends it in another elective class in middle school since he is doing tennis outside of school.
4.) Why did you say that your son could still end up as D1 if you spend your time working on technicals/training and cut the tours in half?

Add:
I pulled my kid out of the academy's group class because I don’t see much high-quality coaching. There are some big and medium-sized academies, but I’m not willing to spend $$$ right now.

I teach my kid (only with feeding balls, rallying, etc.), but I listen to what the coach says; I am trying not to deviate from what my kid is doing with the coach. He has a private coach whom we meet once a week (not from the same academy). I’ll share some videos with the coach for feedback, and the coach will work on that during their session, Ofcourse our time is limited with the coaching since it's once a week, but I would normally ask the coach to work on a specific issue if needed, but the coach would try to address what needs to be corrected as much as possible.