Just when I was beginning to like Djokovic....

B

bladepdb

Professional
"Djokovic, who committed 29 errors during the 68-minute match, said: “Overall it was a very bad day. There's not much to say. He played very solid. I mean, he didn't do anything special. It was all me making [an] incredible amount of unforced errors."

from http://www.atpworldtour.com/TENNIS/1/EN/NEWS/NEWSARTICLE_2717.ASP

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See moments like these remind me why I dislike Djokovic at the end of the day. It's not that he didn't acknowledge his opponent played well (he did admit Roddick "played very solid"). But to take that a step further and say he didn't do anything special?

I mean sure Roddick played only consistently and got the first serves in, which you can claim isn't really terrific or unique or "special" (>80% first serve might be arguable tho lol). But to call it out explicitly that your opponent did nothing against you is certainly taking it to the next level IMO.

Watching more of Djokovic's games started to get me to like him more, like when he often applauds his opponent for making a great shot. But when the match is over he has often made insensible comments or taking things to the next level as he just did there (USO 08 is another example). Then I realize at the end of the day, is he really a good sport?

In my opinion - and for what it's worth - he should have stopped at saying Roddick played a solid game....I made errors I shouldn't have, blah blah blah, done. What he did there (Roddick played a solid game. Didn't do anythign special. I made errors, blah blah) just takes it to another level for me.

If he keeps having these moments where he starts seemingly complimenting his opponent then undermining him, Djokovic will never amount to anything as a person.

On that note, did J Mac ever undermine his opponents? I was thinking of him as a counterexample for someone who was not careful with his words at all and yet still went down in history as a great player. Was he mostly just temper tantrums with himself/judges?
 
I think it was the very last match that McEnroe played on the tour when he said, "When I start losing to players like him [Brad Gilbert] I've got to reconsider what I'm doing even playing this game."
 
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JeMar said:
I think it was the very last match that McEnroe played on the tour when he said, "When I start losing to players like him [Brad Gilbert] I've got to reconsider what I'm doing even playing this game."
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hahahha, talk about arrogant.:)
 
JeMar said:
I think it was the very last match that McEnroe played on the tour when he said, "When I start losing to players like him [Brad Gilbert] I've got to reconsider what I'm doing even playing this game."
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Haha that's a good one. Well to his credit it was his last match if you're right ;)
 
This is part of the reason I like him. He is an honest character on the tour and says what is really on his mind a lot of the time. And if you saw the match, what he said is true imo. Roddick played solid, but Djokovic handed the match to him on a silver platter.
 
Daized said:
This is part of the reason I like him. He is an honest character on the tour and says what is really on his mind a lot of the time. And if you saw the match, what he said is true imo. Roddick played solid, but Djokovic handed the match to him on a silver platter.
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Roddick played extremely aggressive on BPs when he needed to. Roddick was serving 88%, which is far above even his normal. He played solid from the baseline, but he was serving exceptional.
 
Well, Novak expressed his honest opinion (whether it was borne out of him being upset with himself or emotionality is besides the point - he said what he felt and he meant it; he didn't think Andy did anything special). You can either fault him for possessing the opinion in the first place, or fault him for expressing it. I'm guessing your contention is with him expressing it. However, if we take issue with Djokovic for an incident like this we must take issue with many others who speak candidly (and as far as candid goes 'not anything special' is relatively tame) exampling Federer doing this same thing countless times, and I think Andy himself has too.
 
Djokovic is more like ******-kovic. I use to be a fan of Djokovic, but he has no class for a tennis player. When he wins it's all him, when he loses it's either he retires because of "injury" or because he didn't play well. I hate people who make excuses when they lose. A win is a win and a loss is a loss.
 
Nadalator said:
Federer said worse things after the AO final

http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/news/interviews/2009-02-01/200902011233411537875.html

Double standards anyone?
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Never knew about that. Thanks, casts a different light on Fed for me now too to be honest. Although at the end of the day I only really like him for his game, I don't consider him to be a "humble" ambassador to the sport.

Plenty of "you know" and "I mean" in there too, funny.

Last bit was funny too:

Q. Do you believe you still can beat him?

ROGER FEDERER: Yeah, for sure. I didn't spend four and a half hours out there believing it [sic].
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Thanks :D


Anyway I didn't say Fed was the pinnacle of sportsmanship or anything; I wasn't comparing Djoker to anyone currently on the tour....if I had been, then yes definite double standards.
 
I mean this wasn't even something close to the subjectivity-based comment as Regal Roger made vrs Nadal, "it's not always the better player out there who wins," this was more a matter of fact statement, even if it was matter-of-factly brash and perhaps interpreted as minimizing Andy's welldone gaming.

(Although it of course is still subjective and still Djokovic's opinion [even if more may agree with it compared to what Roger said] whether or not Andy did do anything special out there...)
 
Okazaki Fragment said:
How can anyone fault Federer for speaking the truth?
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Speaking the truth?

"You know, in a fifth set, anything can happen. That's the problem. Not usually the better player always wins.Just a matter of momentum sometimes.You know, maybe I should have never been there, you know, in the first place.I kind of handed it over to him. ".

"I mean, this is, sure, one of the matches in my career where I feel like I could have or should have won, you know".

"Q. Did you feel he was getting stronger at the end?

ROGER FEDERER: Not really. I think I played a bad fifth set"


That's "speaking the truth". Yeah right :rolleyes:
 
dwhiteside said:
Well, Novak expressed his honest opinion (whether it was borne out of him being upset with himself or emotionality is besides the point - he said what he felt and he meant it; he didn't think Andy did anything special). You can either fault him for possessing the opinion in the first place, or fault him for expressing it. I'm guessing your contention is with him expressing it. However, if we take issue with Djokovic for an incident like this we must take issue with many others who speak candidly (and as far as candid goes 'not anything special' is relatively tame) exampling Federer doing this same thing countless times, and I think Andy himself has too.
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Sure I absolutely agree that numerous other players have expressed their opinions that may have been a little out of line; the issue then is frequency, and I don't like Federer in this category for the very reason. Roddick, I haven't seen this as frequently with him. And the list goes on.
 
Nadalator said:
Speaking the truth?

"You know, in a fifth set, anything can happen. That's the problem. Not usually the better player always wins.Just a matter of momentum sometimes.You know, maybe I should have never been there, you know, in the first place.I kind of handed it over to him. ".

"I mean, this is, sure, one of the matches in my career where I feel like I could have or should have won, you know".

"Q. Did you feel he was getting stronger at the end?

ROGER FEDERER: Not really. I think I played a bad fifth set"


That's "speaking the truth". Yeah right :rolleyes:
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It's speaking the truth in that Roger believes it to be the truth, just as Djokovic believes it to be the truth that Andy didn't do anything special and Nadal believes it to be the truth that Roger is "a great champion" and McEnroe believes (or believed) it to be the truth that a certain umpire many years ago "could not be serious".
 
dwhiteside said:
It's speaking the truth in that Roger believes it to be the truth, just as Djokovic believes it to be the truth that Andy didn't do anything special and Nadal believes it to be the truth that Roger is "a great champion" and McEnroe believes (or believed) it to be the truth that a certain umpire many years ago "could not be serious".
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Sure he voiced what the believed to be the truth and I'm not bashing him for that. However, this seriously takes away from Djokovic as a sportsman.
 
Nadalator said:
Speaking the truth?

"You know, in a fifth set, anything can happen. That's the problem. Not usually the better player always wins.Just a matter of momentum sometimes.You know, maybe I should have never been there, you know, in the first place.I kind of handed it over to him. ".

"I mean, this is, sure, one of the matches in my career where I feel like I could have or should have won, you know".

"Q. Did you feel he was getting stronger at the end?

ROGER FEDERER: Not really. I think I played a bad fifth set"


That's "speaking the truth". Yeah right :rolleyes:
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He didn't get stronger. Nadal's level stayed the same and even uncle toni admits it. Ofcourse, you will just say he's being humble. Roger's level did drop in the 5th set. However, as honest as it may or may not have been, he shouldn't have said something like that.
 
Nadalator said:
Hmm no, this is about Federer and Djokovic and the double standards.

I will stay here, thanks.
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Djokovic is alot worse than Roger though. At least Roger's analysis of the situation is at least partially correct. Djokovic at times has been utterly ridiculous, such as when he retired against Nadal at the FO, he said that "he was totally in control of the match".
 
NamRanger said:
Djokovic is alot worse than Roger though. At least Roger's analysis of the situation is at least partially correct. Djokovic at times has been utterly ridiculous, such as when he retired against Nadal at the FO, he said that "he was totally in control of the match".
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haha, I remember that. I didn't see the match, so I can't really say anything, but Brad Gilbert was all over djokovic for that comment.
 
Andy didn't do anything special - that's true.
Djokovic just "give" the match to him - just watch the match again.
 
tenis said:
Andy didn't do anything special - that's true.
Djokovic just "give" the match to him - just watch the match again.
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Roddick served exceptionally well and did not allow Djokovic to get into a rhythm. He disrupted him and forced him to go for more. He had excellent court coverage, played the ball deep, and was aggressive when down on BPs.
 
NamRanger said:
Roddick served exceptionally well and did not allow Djokovic to get into a rhythm. He disrupted him and forced him to go for more. He had excellent court coverage, played the ball deep, and was aggressive when down on BPs.
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True indeed, but whether or not that's considered 'special' or merely 'solid' is an an issue of opinion and an issue of semantics.
 
dwhiteside said:
True indeed, but whether or not that's considered 'special' or merely 'solid' is an an issue of opinion and an issue of semantics.
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Well Djokovic need not acknowledge Roddick's play as "special" -- I mean he already acknolwedged it as "solid." Again, it's the issue of stepping across a line that did not need to be crossed to begin with.
 
dwhiteside said:
True indeed, but whether or not that's considered 'special' or merely 'solid' is an an issue of opinion and an issue of semantics.
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How often do you see Roddick serve 80%? Special would be considered something out of the ordinary, that produces exceptional results. I think that is a fair definition.
 
bladepdb said:
Sure he voiced what the believed to be the truth and I'm not bashing him for that. However, this seriously takes away from Djokovic as a sportsman.
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Why does it take away from Djokovic as a sportsman?

What he said was the honest truth, he played like crap and Roddick served really well but didnt do nothing out of this world. I'd say that means that neither player did anything exceptional. He was telling it the way it is.
 
I don't think this is terribly offensive, but it is probably a bit of an ungracious thing to actively bring up that your opponent didn't do anything special when you're talking about a loss. Something more like "I felt like I played very poorly- he played well, but I could've done better" has a little bit less of a sour-grapes feel to it. I wouldn't say this is any terrible injustice on Djokovic's part; I think, for example, Serena Williams crossed the line when she talked about how awful her performance was in a loss to Justine Henin and went as far as to say Henin was "getting lucky shots" in beating her, which is basically an outright denigration of her opponent's play. Bringing up the thought that they "didn't do anything special" still comes across a little negatively as an effort at detracting from your opponent's win, but is not anything offensive in that sense.
Let it further be noted that Djokovic also graciously stated that Roddick is a great player who played well and has good prospects for the season- even if one small excerpt of his press conference had a slightly negative tone to it, I don't believe this is cause for any serious attacks on Djokovic's character.
 
SikSerb said:
Why does it take away from Djokovic as a sportsman?

What he said was the honest truth, he played like crap and Roddick served really well but didnt do nothing out of this world. I'd say that means that neither player did anything exceptional. He was telling it the way it is.
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A good sport does not undermine the success of his opponent during defeat. That is precisely where Djokovic was heading with his comment and why this thread was made.

Joseph L. Barrow said:
I don't think this is terribly offensive, but it is probably a bit of an ungracious thing to actively bring up that your opponent didn't do anything special when you're talking about a loss. Something more like "I felt like I played very poorly- he played well, but I could've done better" has a little bit less of a sour-grapes feel to it. I wouldn't say this is any terrible injustice on Djokovic's part; I think, for example, Serena Williams crossed the line when she talked about how awful her performance was in a loss to Justine Henin and went as far as to say Henin was "getting lucky shots" in beating her, which is basically an outright denigration of her opponent's play. Bringing up the thought that they "didn't do anything special" still comes across a little negatively as an effort at detracting from your opponent's win, but is not anything offensive in that sense.
Let it further be noted that Djokovic also graciously stated that Roddick is a great player who played well and has good prospects for the season- even if one small excerpt of his press conference had a slightly negative tone to it, I don't believe this is cause for any serious attacks on Djokovic's character.
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I mentioned earlier that yeah one or two comments like these aren't a big deal; it's only natural to feel down on yourself after a loss. But the frequency of such comments adding up over time prompted me to make this jump.
 
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Djoker played like cr@p and lost. Roddick kept the ball in play and waited for Djoke's errors. He served great but nothing else. Nole was right saying that.
 
I think Roddick did something a little bit 'special' for a player like him. I did not see him do a lot of slice shots in the old days... Now I see him doing a lot of slices and in this match Djokovic often hit the net from returning Roddick's slice shots......
 
bladepdb said:
That's kind of a component of the definition of being a sport -- acknowledging the hard work of your opponent.
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Well if Djokovic said that he lost against Roddick who didnt do anything exceptional wouldnt that mean hes complimenting him. He lost against someone that wasnt even playing their best tennis. But anyway I dont even think its at all insulting so what you say to me seems completely illogical to begin with.
 
Jokers game has become a lot more inconsistent since he switched rackets.
 
SikSerb said:
Well if Djokovic said that he lost against Roddick who didnt do anything exceptional wouldnt that mean hes complimenting him. He lost against someone that wasnt even playing their best tennis. But anyway I dont even think its at all insulting so what you say to me seems completely illogical to begin with.
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It's illogical because you refuse to see the reason behind my conclusion.... Hmm, that sounds logical.

PS: It wasn't this incident alone that's pushing me over the edge in terms of liking Djoker as both a player and a sport; let's couple this one with the NUMEROUS ones where he has undoubtedly proven to be a poor sport.

PPS: He's not that great a player either so....
 
bladepdb said:
It's illogical because you refuse to see the reason behind my conclusion.... Hmm, that sounds logical.

PS: It wasn't this incident alone that's pushing me over the edge in terms of liking Djoker as both a player and a sport; let's couple this one with the NUMEROUS ones where he has undoubtedly proven to be a poor sport.

PPS: He's not that great a player either so....
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Yeah lol, whatever you say man.
 
Roddick's first serve percentage is routinely in the low to mid 70s, so I don't think it was that extraordinary that he managed to serve 80% over the course of a rather short two-set match.
 
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bladepdb said:
"Djokovic, who committed 29 errors during the 68-minute match, said: “Overall it was a very bad day. There's not much to say. He played very solid. I mean, he didn't do anything special. It was all me making [an] incredible amount of unforced errors."

from http://www.atpworldtour.com/TENNIS/1/EN/NEWS/NEWSARTICLE_2717.ASP

--

See moments like these remind me why I dislike Djokovic at the end of the day. It's not that he didn't acknowledge his opponent played well (he did admit Roddick "played very solid"). But to take that a step further and say he didn't do anything special?

I mean sure Roddick played only consistently and got the first serves in, which you can claim isn't really terrific or unique or "special" (>80% first serve might be arguable tho lol). But to call it out explicitly that your opponent did nothing against you is certainly taking it to the next level IMO.

Watching more of Djokovic's games started to get me to like him more, like when he often applauds his opponent for making a great shot. But when the match is over he has often made insensible comments or taking things to the next level as he just did there (USO 08 is another example). Then I realize at the end of the day, is he really a good sport?

In my opinion - and for what it's worth - he should have stopped at saying Roddick played a solid game....I made errors I shouldn't have, blah blah blah, done. What he did there (Roddick played a solid game. Didn't do anythign special. I made errors, blah blah) just takes it to another level for me.

If he keeps having these moments where he starts seemingly complimenting his opponent then undermining him, Djokovic will never amount to anything as a person.

On that note, did J Mac ever undermine his opponents? I was thinking of him as a counterexample for someone who was not careful with his words at all and yet still went down in history as a great player. Was he mostly just temper tantrums with himself/judges?
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One really should wait a while prior to posting spoilers...just my opinion....glad I saw the match prior to this thread.
 
Roddick played well.. No about that. But Djoker hasnt been Djoker in quite a while. There is seriously some problems with the guy. It wasnt just Roddick. Hell Djoker could barely deal with Wawrinka. That tells u something is seriously wrong with Djoker. Taking nothing away from Roddick or Wawrinka, but Djoker seriously has some problems be it mental or physical or both. He should not be getting whooped on by Roddick or needing two set tiebreaks with Wawrinka.

Roddick's serve was looking good but Djoker beat himself. Just a ridiculous amounts of errors. Thats not Djoker. Roddick should not be demolishing Djoker from the baseline considering how much better Djoker is at that aspect
 
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