Justine vs Venus: who is greater?

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Cherrypicking yet again, and deviating from the title of the thread.

Agreed--he would like to ingore half of a career, since it is clear Henin will not match up in that kind of assessment. Either way, poor little Justine's career and non-impact on the game is not to be taken seriously in the Williams era.

 

[egn]

Sorry, but Venus has the overall superior career, while Henin--outside of the FO was never consistent/dominant (USO) or a factor at all (Wimbledon), which are glaring problems none of her other achievements can erase.

She won just as many US Opens as Venus. Made more hardcourt major finals overall with 3 at each the US and Aussie. Made 2 wimbledon finals and has a much more impressive resume at her worst major than Venus. Henin was not as much of a nonfactor to win wimbledon as you claim. I'd also take Henin winning a wimbledon well before Venus ever winning a French Open.

Her failure to win Wimbledon illustrated the limits of her skills whether you accept this or not.

Same goes for Venus' failure to win the French and Australian open.

...not "amazing" enough to be effective at Wimbledon, while others, such as Venus, Serena and Mauresmo's volleys were effective and part of a larger game.

Like Venus was effective on clay -__- stop being some sort of Wimbledon is the only thing that matters type of person as clearly it is not the only judge of a player.

Over Venus?

In 2002 no but in 2003 yes, but then it happened in 2003 anyway when Serena vanished and Henin got her time at the top. 2002 however would have been a Venus show, but without Serena I imagine no Venus either as they disappear together.

 

[egn]

Henin was a total failure at Wimbledon, and could not exhibit dominance (for even a short period) on any surface other than clay, thus she's not even a blip on the radar of 2nd best player of her generation. Anyone trying to deny that is living in the land of pixie dust and dreams--the only place where a player with only one surface strength could be the 2nd best of a generation.

It is not my problem that you have such a hard time living with truth.

2003 summer hardcourts - 2004 clay season Henin was the best hardcourt player on tour hands down. Henin has won 3 hardcourt majors, more than Venus. Henin also has a better win percentage on the surface and is only one title shy of what Venus is on hardcourts. Not to mention Henin's career is much shorter so she gathered nearly just as many as Venus in a short period of time.

Venus has a slighter better win loss at the US .85 to .83 while Henin blows her away in Aus .83 to .76. You claim such fictitious bull. Henin is probably overall better on hardcourts than Venus.

I mean we could do a run down
Henin 3 majors Venus 2 majors
Henin 5 Tier I Venus 6 Tier I
Henin 2 WTF Venus 1 WTF
Henin 1 Olympics Venus 1 Olympics
Henin 25 titles Venus 26 titles
Henin .818 Venus .808

Henin had just as much strength on hard as Venus if not a bit more.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

She won just as many US Opens as Venus

Again you miss the important detail: Henin was not able to dominate/show consistency at the U.S. Open. It was not in her game to do so. There's no arguing that bit of history.

Henin was not as much of a nonfactor to win wimbledon as you claim.

If you do not win, you are a non-factor at the event to history's archives, and her entire history at the event is poor--despite her defenders' fragile attempts (over the years) to claim her game was suited for that surface.

Clearly, her game was not....unless you're employing the same spin-bloated reasoning of those TW members who (for example) label Roddick some sort of great Wimbledon factor due to reaching three finals?

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

2003 summer hardcourts - 2004 clay season Henin was the best hardcourt player on tour hands down.

AS noted in the previous post, she was never dominant at the U.S. Open--the most important HC event of all. She could not defend her titles--from losing in the 4th round of her 1st chance to defend, to running away from the sport before she would have played to defend her 2nd title.

Not really a mastery of the U.S. Open.

 

[egn]

Again you miss the important detail: Henin was not able to dominate/show consistency at the U.S. Open. It was not in her game to do so. There's no arguing that bit of history.

If you do not win, you are a non-factor at the event to history's archives, and her entire history at the event is poor--despite her defenders' fragile attempts (over the years) to claim her game was suited for that surface.

She made 2 finals therefore she is there in the archives, she didn't win I agree but to say she is a complete non-factor is ********.

Clearly, her game was not....unless you're employing the same spin-bloated reasoning of those TW members who (for example) label Roddick some sort of great Wimbledon factor due to reaching three finals?

Again Roddick was definitely a threat to win wimbledon at points in time and again I am not going to waste time arguing with you because you are still not understanding that Henin on hardcourts was just as good as Venus was if not better.

AS noted in the previous post, she was never dominant at the U.S. Open--the most important HC event of all. She could not defend her titles--from losing in the 4th round of her 1st chance to defend, to running away from the sport before she would have played to defend her 2nd title.

Not really a mastery of the U.S. Open.

She didn't defend her US Open yes but honestly I can not see that as such a HUGE FACTOR when we are talking the likes of 2 US opens for each. So what is Fed now better than Sampras because he defend 4 Wimbledons while Sampras only defended 3 max? Rafter is better than Hewitt because he defended his major? Edberg is superior to Agassi than at the US cause he defended one -_- I'm sorry I'll agree Venus is superior at US but that is not due to her defending it's due to her better record there and more deep runs. However she is not superior by that much as she still only has 2 titles like Henin. There legacy comes down to who is better than who on hardcourts and at the end of the day 3 hardcourt majors and 2 WTF is greater than 2 hardcourt majors and 1 WTF, no matter how you spin it Thunder.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

She made 2 finals therefore she is there in the archives, she didn't win I agree but to say she is a complete non-factor is ********.

Bottom line: she did not win in the finals she reached. She was no closer to winning a Wimbledon title than Seles, as both had games not suited for Wimbledon, which is the reason next to no one ever mentions Seles in any conversation considering the great players in Wimbledon history.

Again Roddick was definitely a threat to win wimbledon at points in time and again I am not going to waste time arguing with you because you are still not understanding that Henin on hardcourts was just as good as Venus was if not better.

Think whatever you like, but defending your title is a clear sign of strength, consistency and dominance at the USO, which means her accomplishments are held in higher regard than Miss I-could-not-defend. Merely reaching a few finals (Roddick at Wimbledon) does not mean anything in the bigger picture.



She didn't defend her US Open yes but honestly I can not see that as such a HUGE FACTOR when we are talking the likes of 2 US opens for each. So what is Fed now better than Sampras because he defend 4 Wimbledons while Sampras only defended 3 max? [/quote]

Poor example, as both were able to do what--defend. The issue with Henin is that she could not do that, so she was never dominant at the USO--the most important point of comparison between Venus and Henin at the event, egn.

 

[Federerx16]

Give it a rest guys. The quiet/less biased/more objective majority has spoken.

:lol: not on this forum it hasnt

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Considering how many different usernames you've had and have, you may just be referring to yourself. LOL.

For those who don't know, here is the list of usernames associated with NadalAgassi:

1. davey25 (previously inactive, now very active, 3343 posts)
2. federerfanatic (banned, 3046 posts)
3. capriatifanatic (banned, 646 posts)
4. gugafanatic (inactive following retirement of Guga Kuerten, 2006 posts)
5. cuddles26 (banned, 937 posts)
6. nadalgirl26 (banned, 182 posts)
7. grafrules (banned, 2181 posts)
8. grafselesfan (banned, 3599)
9. federerhoogenbandfan (currently inactive, 2542 posts)
10. justineheninhoogenbandfan (currently inactive, 898 posts)
11. navratilovafan (831 posts)
12. thalivest (active, often in the same thread as davey25 and anointedone, 3406 posts)
13. anointedone (active, often in the same thread as davey25 and thalivest, 4588 posts)
14. GrafisGOAT (45 posts)
15. lambielspins (banned, 2718 posts)
16. julesb (banned, 489 posts)

17. hewittboy
18. flying24
19. NadalandFedererfan
20. selesvido
21. Trillus

Polaris compiled the list with the first 16 usernames for this thread: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=120148. Gizo added the last 5 names in this post, http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5777612&postcount=78

OMG, LDV.

You now own NadalAgassi, oh, yes you do! Thank you for your continued wisdom and superiority in this discussion forum.

Mother Marjorie Ann
Empress of Talk Tennis Warehouse

 

[MotherMarjorie]

And you and me both know why Henin got more votes, and its not tennis.

You, Thundervolley, Tanya and HeftyLefty cannot apply affirmative action in regards to tennis history. Nice try, but the great majority of folks in this forum know better, which is why the consensus is that Justine > Venus.

Mother Marjorie Ann
Empress of Talk Tennis Warehouse

 

[heftylefty]

Marjorie, nice to see you staying above the fray...

 

[MotherMarjorie]

On point. None of the Henin whiners can produce an excuse for Henin admitting fear of the Williams sisters

Really?

Justine made Serena cry after the 2003 French Open semifinals during her press conference. Serena never recovered, with Justine holding a winning edge over Serena in grand slam events.

That's what Mother Marjorie loved about Justine, she made the bullies cry.

Oh, and shout-out to Serena Williams for winning her 38th tournament in 12 years. Serena accomplished something that only took Stefanie Graf five years to achieve, yep, you betcha! Serena gives hope to all the hefty girls out there who want a career in professional sports!

Mother Marjorie Ann
Empress of Talk Tennis Warehouse

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Marjorie, nice to see you staying above the fray...

Oh, Hi, Heftylefty!

You know that Mother Marjorie is always going to stay on the correct side of history, you betcha!

Mother Marjorie Ann
Empress of Talk Tennis Warehouse

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Really?

..and nothing you posted below even begins to address Henin's admitted fear of the Williams sisters at Wimbledon.

...not that anyone expected an honest answer out of you.

Serena never recovered

Serena handed Henin her ass in the AO final.

This was quick.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

This was quick.

You are not worthy of Mother Marjorie Ann because you are a vituperator of tennis history and support obesity.

Justine Henin holds a winning record against Big Girl Serena in grand slam events and that's history no one can change.

Mother Marjorie Ann
Empress of Talk Tennis Warehouse

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

You, Thundervolley, Tanya and HeftyLefty cannot apply affirmative action

The fact you even mentioned Affirmative Action as a motive for selecting any of the Williams sisters (when no one even remotely referred to or employed anything of the sort) is all the evidence one needs to prove your true nature: fall back to the standard, racist Right Winger's BS when he cannot alter the true events of history to elevate a white person (in this case, Henin) over an African American (in this case, two--the Williams sisters).

Now that your cross-burning crap has been recorded for the ages, it will be pointless for you to attempt to spin your true sociopolitical beliefs into anything objective.

You are such an easy mark.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

The fact you even mentioned Affirmative Action as a motive for selecting any of the Williams sisters is all the evidence one needs to prove your true nature: fall back to the standard, racist Right Winger's BS when he cannot alter the true events of history to elevate a white person (in this case, Henin) over an African American (in this case, two--the Williams sisters).

Now that your cross-burning crap has been recorded for the ages, it will be pointless for you to attempt to spin your true sociopolitical beliefs into anything objective.

You are such an easy mark.

Looks like the Captain of race patrol has arrived.

It has been YOU, and some of your slightly diminished friends in this forum who, in spite of a consensus in this forum that Justine is > Venus, continue to abuse tennis history in favor of perpetrating the lie that Venus is > Justine. No amount of affirmative action can change tennis history, and you need to accept this truth before your head explodes.

There's not been one blonde European women's tennis player you haven't attacked in some form in this forum in relationship to Serena and Venus Williams. MIRROR....MIRROR.....

So save your "look at the racist" finger-pointing because Mother Marjorie's diamond-clad fickle finger of fervor just pointed right back at YOU....

You know I'm the truth, which is why you are on attack mode, Heifer.

Mother Marjorie Ann
Empress of Talk Tennis Warehouse[/QUOTE]

 

[Bilbo]

Looks like the Captain of race patrol has arrived.

It has been YOU, and some of your slightly diminished friends in this forum who, in spite of a consensus in this forum that Justine is > Venus, continue to abuse tennis history in favor of perpetrating the lie that Venus is > Justine. No amount of affirmative action can change tennis history, and you need to accept this truth before your head explodes.

You know I'm right, which is why you are on attack mode, Heifer.

Mother Marjorie Ann
Empress of Talk Tennis Warehouse

You guys do know that this is a sport we're talking about, right? Just because a group of random people think that Justine is better than Venus doesn't make it so. If it was the other way around, the same would be true. At the end of the day this is all for fun. There's no need to insult people Mother Marjorie, this discussion and who's better between Venus or Justine has no effect on your life, or their lives. :|

It's not a big deal...calm down.

 

[egn]

You are not worthy of Mother Marjorie Ann because you are a vituperator of tennis history and support obesity.

Justine Henin holds a winning record against Big Girl Serena in grand slam events and that's history no one can change.

Mother Marjorie Ann
Empress of Talk Tennis Warehouse

Support obesity. -_- Why do you post? Why do you attempt to make yourself sound so sophisticated and educated? You are talking about tennis. It has become an undeniable fact that the order of greatness should go Serena --> Henin --> Venus fight the battle at hand here with Thundervolley and don't attempt to bring your usual anti-serena agenda into this thread. Gosh just because you have a vocabulary or a dictionary on hand does not make you some type of 'Empress'. Also cut the third person crap you are not worth of the title of Empress, gosh pretty sure TMF deserves that a bit more. She posts more after all.

Now back to the other psycho of the thread.

Poor example, as both were able to do what--defend. The issue with Henin is that she could not do that, so she was never dominant at the USO--the most important point of comparison between Venus and Henin at the event, egn.

So Venus was better at the US Open slightly over Henin because she defended a single title. Now explain the gaping hole in Venus' resume when it comes to the Aussie. Why Henin has more WTF and overall hardcourt majors and finals. Why Henin has numerous years as #1? Why Henin made at least every major final twice and Venus has not? Why Henin has more titles? Why Henin has a better win percentage? Why Henin's best season is better than Venus' best in terms of titles won, record and ranking? Why Henin did all of this is less tournaments than Venus? I'm still just waiting for at least something other than Venus Williams defended a US Open therefore she is GOAT over Henin. Cause that means she is better than Serena isn't it, cause what US Opens have Serena defended?

So is Pat Rafter a better US Open player than Andre Agassi also by your standards?

 

[Bilbo]

Support obesity. -_- Why do you post? Why do you attempt to make yourself sound so sophisticated and educated? You are talking about tennis. It has become an undeniable fact that the order of greatness should go Serena --> Henin --> Venus fight the battle at hand here with Thundervolley and don't attempt to bring your usual anti-serena agenda into this thread. Gosh just because you have a vocabulary or a dictionary on hand does not make you some type of 'Empress'. Also cut the third person crap you are not worth of the title of Empress, gosh pretty sure TMF deserves that a bit more. She posts more after all.

Now back to the other psycho of the thread.



So Venus was better at the US Open slightly over Henin because she defended a single title. Now explain the gaping hole in Venus' resume when it comes to the Aussie. Why Henin has more WTF and overall hardcourt majors and finals. Why Henin has numerous years as #1? Why Henin made at least every major final twice and Venus has not? Why Henin has more titles? Why Henin has a better win percentage? Why Henin's best season is better than Venus' best in terms of titles won, record and ranking? Why Henin did all of this is less tournaments than Venus? I'm still just waiting for at least something other than Venus Williams defended a US Open therefore she is GOAT over Henin. Cause that means she is better than Serena isn't it, cause what US Opens have Serena defended?

So is Pat Rafter a better US Open player than Andre Agassi also by your standards?

Hey look! A normal non-biased post!

Watch this guys, I'm going to disagree with him, without insulting him.

I here what you're saying, and if we go on singles career alone, then Henin would be the more accomplished player (which i think is the original question posted in the thread, not who wins when they play). That having been said, I think that if we're looking at the entirety of both players' careers, then it becomes pretty obvious with the doubles titles Venus has won, that she has had the better career...overall.

So in terms of accomplishment, just singles? Henin. Entire career? Venus.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

You guys do know that this is a sport we're talking about, right? Just because a group of random people think that Justine is better than Venus doesn't make it so.

Uh, the poll posted is specific to this forum, of which fans of tennis participate, so its not like its a random internet posted on yahoo.com. Tennis enthusiasts from all over the world voted. You betcha!

There's no need to insult people Mother Marjorie, this discussion and who's better between Venus or Justine has no effect on your life, or their lives. :|

It's not a big deal...calm down.

Mother Marjorie hasn't insulted anyone yet. If you take offense, then you should put on your big boy panties and grow-up! You betcha!

Mother Marjorie Ann
Empress of Talk Tennis Warehouse

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Looks like the Captain of race patrol has arrived.

..and that would be you--from your constant, race-baiting comments on the sisters' alleged "bad" culture, hair weaves (in other threads) and now something no one was talking about--Affirmative Action--once again, you have pulled a thread into the ill pit you occupy.

YOU are the only guy bringing the Right Winger's use of the Affirmative Action charge into this thread, and the reason is clear to all--a reason that will return as a reminder everytime you soil threads with your platform of hate.

You know I'm the truth

Any man posting on a message board pretending to be a woman knows little of--let alone lives with truth.

Heifer.

^ Proof your nevers are quite raw, since you are now cornered enough to flame.

 

[egn]

Hey look! A normal non-biased post!

Watch this guys, I'm going to disagree with him, without insulting him.

I here what you're saying, and if we go on singles career alone, then Henin would be the more accomplished player (which i think is the original question posted in the thread, not who wins when they play). That having been said, I think that if we're looking at the entirety of both players' careers, then it becomes pretty obvious with the doubles titles Venus has won, that she has had the better career...overall.

So in terms of accomplishment, just singles? Henin. Entire career? Venus.

I can see your point and it is true with doubles included Venus is definitely more accomplished!

Oh wait....I should have done what is right for TT call you some sort of name and back myself into a corner and hang on the to the fact that if Henin had some sort of sister somewhere she would have been just as talented as her and not gotten out of shape allowing her to win numerous doubles majors as well?? No?? Or do what the other half of TT does and say doubles doesn't count, unless it helps their fav...

However I will take the rational approach and agree with you because it is correct what you said.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Support obesity. -_- Why do you post? Why do you attempt to make yourself sound so sophisticated and educated? You are talking about tennis.

Mother Marjorie has never, nor will she ever attempt to impress anyone. If you don't like Mother Marjorie, ignore her, its pretty simple, even for the simplest of folks, like you.

It has become an undeniable fact that the order of greatness should go Serena --> Henin --> Venus fight the battle at hand here with Thundervolley and don't attempt to bring your usual anti-serena agenda into this thread. Gosh just because you have a vocabulary or a dictionary on hand does not make you some type of 'Empress'. Also cut the third person crap you are not worth of the title of Empress, gosh pretty sure TMF deserves that a bit more. She posts more after all.

Oh, you cannot tell Mother Marjorie what to do. You don't have the authority or power to do that. No man has ever had that, even Mother Marjorie's Baby Daddy, Ryan, would agree.

Silly one.

Mother Marjorie Ann
Empress of Talk Tennis Warehouse

 

[Towser83]

True, however when I said what I said it was in response to the follow statement (particularly the part in bold):

Fair enough

She didn't defend her US Open yes but honestly I can not see that as such a HUGE FACTOR when we are talking the likes of 2 US opens for each. So what is Fed now better than Sampras because he defend 4 Wimbledons while Sampras only defended 3 max? Rafter is better than Hewitt because he defended his major? Edberg is superior to Agassi than at the US cause he defended one -_- I'm sorry I'll agree Venus is superior at US but that is not due to her defending it's due to her better record there and more deep runs. However she is not superior by that much as she still only has 2 titles like Henin. There legacy comes down to who is better than who on hardcourts and at the end of the day 3 hardcourt majors and 2 WTF is greater than 2 hardcourt majors and 1 WTF, no matter how you spin it Thunder.

Yeah I said the same thing. Don't expect a decent answer.

I have to say so far egn, I like your posts a lot. I haven't been here long, but you seem pretty fair from what I've read and you raise good points in a good way.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

australian open 2010 final...try again.

Notice how Guy Marjorie dodges this fact, since Serena--contrary to Guy Marjorie's claim, "Serena never recovered" was shot to pieces by two references to the AO final. Ah, but let's be honest--he cannot allow truth to stand in the way of his disturbed rants.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Now back to the other psycho of the thread.

You flame (more than one member) and expect any sort of civil response--from anyone?

Oh, well.

So Venus was better at the US Open slightly over Henin because she defended a single title.

Let's review, because I know you need it:

What is the stronger indicator of event dominance: defending a title, or winning with several years between the titles?

You should be able to "get it" this time.

*crosses fingers*

Now explain the gaping hole in Venus' resume when it comes to the Aussie.

If you are able to successfully answer the question posted above, then you will also understand why your own post about the AO has no bearing on the issue of dominance at a major. How are you not getting that?

I'm still just waiting for at least something other than Venus Williams defended a US Open therefore she is GOAT over Henin.

Oh, there's that business about Venus' Wimbledon record you conveniently left out of your tirade. I wonder why......

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Another strike against Venus (aside from her "11" tenniswear), is a woman named Jennifer Marie Capriati. You betcha!

During Venus' prime (the time she won a majority of her majors), Jennifer was able to win 3 out of 5 majors, which further diminished Venus' accomplishments during her best period of tennis.

Not to mention the "gaping holes" in Venus' resume' in regards to the French and Australian Opens. Its just too much classic underachievement to overcome historically.

That never happened to Justine, oh no, it did not.

Mother Marjorie Ann
Empress of Talk Tennis Warehouse

 

[heftylefty]

Another strike against Venus (aside from her "11" tenniswear), is a woman named Jennifer Marie Capriati. You betcha!

During Venus' prime (the time she won a majority of her majors), Jennifer was able to win 3 out of 5 majors, which further diminished Venus' accomplishments during her best period of tennis.

That never happened to Justine, oh no, it did not.

Mother Marjorie Ann
Empress of Talk Tennis Warehouse

Come on, really? V. Williams and Capriati had two very different career paths. And while I have lot empathy for Capriati, she was a classic case of burnout and a cautionary tale of woe. The Tennis Establishment turned out to be no friend of Capriati. Career-wise and sadly life-wise, Williams out class Capriati.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

australian open 2010 final...try again.

Henin 4 wins vs Serena Williams in Grand slam events, 3 losses. You cannot usurp tennis history for your personal gain. Oh, no, you cannot!

Mother Marjorie Ann
Empress of Talk Tennis Warehouse

 

[MotherMarjorie]

sadly life-wise, Williams out class Capriati.

I guess that depends on your definition of "class." You go boy!

 

[Tanya]

First of all, let's get this straight... My like of the Williams sisters has nothing to do with their race, so I'm not sure why my name is appearing in sentences next to terms like Affirmative Action. Furthermore I don't know why I'm being dragged into this anyway--I thought my posts were fair and logical and in no way did I suggest any more than could be implied from facts.

Anywho, just thought I'd mention to you Thundervolley that even I, a fan of the Williams sisters, cannot support your arguments on the grounds that they are rabid and fanatical.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go see a man about some gunney.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

13-7, try again....

Mother Marjorie sees you must be a protege' of Thundervolley.

Mother Marjorie will type slowly so that you see for yourself and aid in your comprehension of REAL history:

Grand Slam tennis Henin vs. S. Williams


2001 US OPEN S. Williams 7-5 6-0
2003 FRENCH OPEN J.Henin 6-2 4-6 7-5
2003 WIMBLEDON S. Williams 6-3 6-2
2007 FRENCH OPEN J.Henin 6-4 6-3
2007 WIMBLEDON J.Henin 6-4 3-6 6-3
2007 US OPEN J.Henin 7-6(3) 6-1
2010 AUSTRALIAN S. Williams 6-4 3-6 6-21 (1)

Henin 4-3. If the glove don't fit, you must acquit. FREE CASEY ANTHONY!


Mother Marjorie Ann
Empress of Talk Tennis Warehouse

 

[MotherMarjorie]

a college education, the ultimate form of class and staus......you sound jealus.

Yes, Moter Marorie Ahn is very jealus ov u! And ur fahion skool diplomuh!

Moter Marorie Ahn
Impress of Talk Tenus Wairhose

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

First of all, let's get this straight... My like of the Williams sisters has nothing to do with their race, so I'm not sure why my name is appearing in sentences next to terms like Affirmative Action

Your name appears there because charges of so-called Affirmative Action is one of the key titles used by Right Wing racists like Mr. Marjorie to attack any minority actually living up to and suprassing potential the racist (Mr. Majorie and others posting in this thread) refuses to accept--particularly if the minority surpasses a favored white person in a similar occupation. In his atrophied mind, some sort of "government" or institutional action is responsible for any success a minority enjoys, as it supports his charge of some wholly imagined "inferiority" of the minority. Yes, that is the way Guy Marjorie's mind works.

 

[jones101]

Yes, Moter Marorie Ahn is very jealus ov u! And ur fahion skool diplomuh!

Moter Marorie Ahn
Impress of Talk Tenus Wairhose

You are mocking the Williams education yet Justine didnt even finish school. Lol Classic.

JUSTINE HENIN: It's difficult with the school in Belgium, you know, I didn't finish school because it's difficult when you want to be a top player and I think Sabine and Dominique finished there.


http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=19742

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

You are mocking the Williams education yet Justine didnt even finish school. Lol Classic.

Indeed!

JUSTINE HENIN: It's difficult with the school in Belgium, you know, I didn't finish school because it's difficult when you want to be a top player and I think Sabine and Dominique finished there.


http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=19742

So many of Guy Marjorie's would-be "gotcha" statements have been destroyed today--first, the "Serena never recovered" crap shattered by the fact Serena won the 2010 AO over Henin, his overtly racist posts, and now his attack on the Williams' education.

Tough day for the dude.

 

[LDVTennis]

Yes, Moter Marorie Ahn is very jealus ov u! And ur fahion skool diplomuh!

Moter Marorie Ahn
Impress of Talk Tenus Wairhose

Mother Marjorie is a mistress of all languages, from the Queen's English to Ebonics.

As to that "fahion skool," I would hardly call it that, given what it seems they taught Venus.

 

[DRII]

Mother Marjorie is a mistress of all languages, from the Queen's English to Ebonics.

As to that "fahion skool," I would hardly call it that, given what it seems they taught Venus.

Well, her fashion sense has certainly made some cents! Plenty of cents, since she is the fourth highest paid woman athlete! Most of that must be endorsements and business ventures given her injuries and lack of tennis play.

Looks like Venus has 'skooled' you and your cohorts on this issue! LOL!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/02/us-women-richest-idUSTRE77159F20110802

 

[LDVTennis]

Looks like Venus has 'skooled' you and your cohorts on this issue! LOL!

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And, how much money does Venus make from her fashion line, Eleven?

Since Steve & Barry's went out of business, no one has picked up Venus' fashion line. Not Macy's, not K-Mart, no one.

Indeed, it is only a fashion line in Venus's imagination.

 

[LDVTennis]

so jealous! why don't you make something of yourself instead of knocking other ppl's accomplishments.

My college sits across from the New Haven Green.

Venus' college sits across from a Blimpie's. LOL.

 

[Joe Pike]

8-6, 2003(she cheated and admitted it), ...

Enna didn't cheat.
And of course didn't admit to having cheated.

At least not in real life. But maybe in "Ree Fantasy Land" ... ?

 

[jones101]

Since Steve & Barry's went out of business, no one has picked up Venus' fashion line. Not Macy's, not K-Mart, no one.

Gilt Groupe is proud to be the exclusive retailer of Venus Williams' EleVen clothing line.

http://www.gilt.com/eleven

Gilt Groupe is an online retailer based in the US. Founded in 2007, Gilt Groupe stages online 'flash' sales, offering women's, men's and children's designer apparel and accessories, designer home goods and high-end travel destinations at discounted prices in a limited-time sale format, typically 36 to 48 hours. In 2009, FastCompany called it the "darling of luxury-obsessed bargain hunters."

The company was launched in 2007 by Doubleclick co-founder Kevin P. Ryan, early **** executive Alexis Maybank and Louis Vuitton and Bulgari merchandising executive Alexandra Wilkis Wilson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilt_Groupe

 

[egn]

You flame (more than one member) and expect any sort of civil response--from anyone?

Oh, well.

Cause you haven't flamed anyone before..

Let's review, because I know you need it:

Rest my case.

What is the stronger indicator of event dominance: defending a title, or winning with several years between the titles?

You should be able to "get it" this time.

*crosses fingers*



If you are able to successfully answer the question posted above, then you will also understand why your own post about the AO has no bearing on the issue of dominance at a major. How are you not getting that?



Oh, there's that business about Venus' Wimbledon record you conveniently left out of your tirade. I wonder why......

Blah blah blah, dominance at a major, we got that ages ago. My point is Henin is STILL OVERALL better than Venus. Just cause Venus "dominated' at the US Open better than Henin does not take away from the fact that Henin accomplished more than Venus in a shorter period of time. I didn't leave Venus' wimbledon out of my case, that wasn't the point. Venus is greater on grass than Henin and Henin is greater on clay then Venus. However when it comes down to hardcourts Henin slightly edges Venus due to having won more important titles on it than Venus. Even if Venus was 'so dominant' at the Us Open by winning all of 2 titles in a row. The deciding factor between Henin and Venus is who was better on hardcourts being as it was both of their second best surface and I will stand by it Henin was overall better on it. 3 Majors and 2 WTF greater than 2 Majors and 1 WTF. Henin won both hardcourt majors, Venus did not.

How about another scenario. Rafter vs Safin? Whose better on hardcourts? I guess if you truly believe that winning 2 US Opens in a row is better than winning both the US and Aussie fine, then lets agree to disagree. However I hope this is you being rational and not simply riding the hate train on Henin.

 

[Soianka]

Head to head isn't a telling factor. That's match ups.

I mean, Serena has a 4-1 H2H against Seles. Should we say Serena was a greater player because of that and the time Seles was out due to the stabbing?

Yes, I would say that if Serena played Seles during Seles' prime and dominated her.

How could you not say that a better H2H when each player is in their prime is THE determining factor?

The difference between Serena-Seles and Venus-Justine, is that Monica was not in her prime during all of those matches.

But Justine and Venus were both playing during their prime and Venus dominated Justine.

It's kind of ridiculous to suggest that Justine is a better player than a person who dominated her in her prime.

But who cares either way? They are both great players.

 

[LDVTennis]

amazon,bluefly,etc.

BlueFly? Burberry, yes. Eleven/Venus, no!

Amazon? Are you kidding me?

When it comes to clothes, amazon is a flea market. I bet one of their affiliates even sells used pieces of her clothing. LOL.

 

[LDVTennis]

Gilt Groupe is proud to be the exclusive retailer of Venus Williams' EleVen clothing line.

Exclusive? Given how cheap her clothes are, they have to be joking.

Gilt Groupe is an online retailer based in the US. Founded in 2007, Gilt Groupe stages online 'flash' sales, offering women's, men's and children's designer apparel and accessories, designer home goods and high-end travel destinations at discounted prices in a limited-time sale format, typically 36 to 48 hours. In 2009, FastCompany called it the "darling of luxury-obsessed bargain hunters."

Translation: They are an online version of TJ Maxx, selling whatever remains in stock after the season. And, that is the "exclusive retailer" of Eleven.

 

[Soianka]

Exclusive? Given how cheap her clothes are, they have to be joking.



Translation: They are an online version of TJ Maxx, selling whatever remains in stock after the season. And, that is the "exclusive retailer" of Eleven.

Clearly Venus is an extremely successful person. To suggest otherwise just makes you look small and petty.

If she wanted her clothes in Macy's, I'm sure they would be there. If she wants to sell her clothes at the "flea market" of the internet, that's better than most of us are doing.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Cause you haven't flamed anyone before..

Never said I didn't, which has nothing to do with the matter at hand: the negative content of your post.

Blah blah blah, dominance at a major, we got that ages ago.

No, you do not get it, since your little "blah" bit is another stab at dismissing the importance of dominance/consistency in majors titles at the USO, which is why you go right back into the following routine:

My point is Henin is STILL OVERALL better than Venus. Just cause Venus "dominated' at the US Open better than Henin does not take away from the fact that Henin accomplished more than Venus in a shorter period of time.

Notice how you have to micromanage Henin's career stats with "shorter period of time" nonsense to avoid the truth: Henin--outside of clay--never displayed the ability to dominate at majors. She was a non-factor at Wimbledon and a hit and miss player at the USO (at best).

However when it comes down to hardcourts Henin slightly edges Venus due to having won more important titles on it than Venus. Even if Venus was 'so dominant' at the Us Open by winning all of 2 titles in a row.

Ahhh, so there we have it. Your "winning all of 2 titles in a row" line simply means you will post anything to rearrange history's value judgement of defending champions when it comes to Henin at the USO.

The deciding factor between Henin and Venus is who was better on hardcourts being as it was both of their second best surface and I will stand by it Henin was overall better on it.

If you cannot repeat at the biggest HC surface--the USO--even one time, then you're not the best at the event. You tossing in Henin's AO only shows how willing you are (like another member a few pages back) to find something--anything to give Henin a check mark in the "positive" box, when an honest comparison between the two regarding the majors won by both only has one answer--one with no connection to Justine Henin.

How about another scenario. Rafter vs Safin? Whose better on hardcourts? I guess if you truly believe that winning 2 US Opens in a row is better than winning both the US and Aussie fine, then lets agree to disagree.

Defending a major title is one of the most celebrated achievements, so its accepted value is nothing new in discussions notable feats in tennis history.

However I hope this is you being rational and not simply riding the hate train on Henin.

You say this about Henin in a thread populated by a sea of anti-Williams hate-mongers? Earlier, you called out one of them (a good thing), but there's no "hate train" about Henin--certainly not enough for one to describe it in that manner. OTOH, a search through this and other threads (if they were not deleted) where the Williams sisters are just mentioned, and you will see the same members posting the most bottom-scraping, vindictive crap one would ever have the displeasure of reading.

 

[LDVTennis]

Clearly Venus is an extremely successful person. To suggest otherwise just makes you look small and petty.

If she wanted her clothes in Macy's, I'm sure they would be there. If she wants to sell her clothes at the "flea market" of the internet, that's better than most of us are doing.

This was not an argument about whether or not Venus is a successful person. This was an argument about her fashion line.

On that subject, if Macy's wanted to sell Venus' clothing line, I'm sure it would be there. Heck, it is not like they would be competing with Saks for it. LOL.