Kafelnikov or Safin

P

pj80

Legend
who is a better player between the two russians in your mind?
Here are the stats.

...................................kafelnikov.............safin
grand slam titles..................2......................2
career titles.......................26.....................15
head to head......................2.......................2
highest ranking................... 1.......................1
best wimbledon result..........QF.....................QF
record vs. Sampras.............2-11...................4-3
record vs. Federer...............4-2....................2-7
record vs. Nadal..................0-0....................0-0

you be the judge.
 
Comparing them at their peaks, Safin would be much more feared by the top players. Overall, Kafelnikov stayed near the top for a good bit longer, without the precipitous ranking drops that Safin's had.

Also, Kafelnikov gets somewhat of an edge based on the fact that he was as good or better in doubles than he was in singles (multiple doubles Grand Slams).

They're pretty close, though if I really *had* to pick I'd go with Kafel.
 
In my opinion, Kafelnifov is a better player. He holds a career 4-2 record against Federer and competition during the 90s were tougher.
 
Nice table, PJ, showing how first impressions can be misleading.

Most people would say off the top of their heads that Safin is/was the better player but the numbers show that Kafa's career looks better (so far).

Safin's peak is undoubtedly higher but Kafa's longevity seems to win so far.
 
His 4-2 record against Fed was when Fed was green.He would get blasted by Fed now.I like Safin much better but he has always been an under-achiver.
 
Both at their best, I think Safin was the tougher, more formidable player.

But success-wise, they're pretty close.

As for the Fed, Sampras stats, agreed that Safin got to Pete when Pete was already on the downside and Kafelnikov beat Federer when Fed was still a developing player.

I'm a fan of both their games. It wasn't very powerful, but the easiness and economics of Kafelnikov's serve is underrated. Like Stich, he basically fell into the shot. Same for his forehand and backhand. They weren't cannonballs, but they're among the most deliberate and controlled groundstrokes I've ever seen.

They say Ljubicic is today's Kafelnikov's, I disagree. Kafelnikov was better.
 
An Agassi head-to-head would be better since he remained at a high level all those years whereas Sampras bottomed off and Federer was just coming up.

Kafelnikov: 4-8 against AA
Safin: 3-3 against AA

Not that it means anything. Kafelnikov has more titles so he wins.
 
would add Safin has five Super 9s (Paris 3x, Canada, Madrid). Kafelnikov somewhat famously never won Super 9.

re: Kafel-Fed, yes beating Proto-Fed is nice but meaningless. Partial answer to future trivia, name the only players to defeat Federer at Wimbledon. Currently there are four (Novak, Kafelnikov, Henman, Ancic)
 
I think Safin with his head together was the best or 2nd best in the world behind federer for a while, but kafelnikov to me was never one of the best 2 or 3 in the world
 
I agree with most people here Safin at his best is better but Kafelnikov wasn't a headcase like Safin and had consistently good results.
 
lack of big matches for kafelnikov

pj80 said:
...................................kafelnikov.............safin
grand slam titles..................2......................2
career titles.......................26.....................15
head to head......................2.......................2
highest ranking................... 1.......................1
best wimbledon result..........QF.....................QF
record vs. Sampras.............2-11...................4-3
record vs. Federer...............4-2....................2-7
Click to expand...
if we start to consider their record against their "main opponents", it is clear that safin won more big matches (in big occasions, like his 5 sets wins against agassi and federer at slams, for example) than kafelnikov against those players. on the contrary, kafelnikov has been frequently severely beaten by sampras, agassi, etc. you'll tell me that safin loses against unknown players... but kafelnikov also had his lot of bad loses !

safin will certainly be more remembered for his charisma than kafelnikov ;) (if ever we considered it was an ex-aequo situation, it can count !) and i agree that at their best level, safin is better.

+ safin has played a total of 4 GS finals, while kafelnikov has played 3 GS finals.
and he has still some time for improving his stats ! ;)

on the other hand, some points in kafelnikov's favor :
- ok more titles... but i have the impression they're generally less prestigious than safin's (slams appart)
- gold medal at the olympics
- kafelnikov has reached the final of the masters in 1997 (while safin best performance at the masters is only a SF) but only for being absolutely annihilated by pistole pete 63 62 62 ! :)

conclusion : i go for marat.
 
Safin has what it takes to be the top tennis player but he has been under-achieving for the past few years due to his temperament and inconsistency. Indeed, it's very sad for Safin. I really missed Safin's epic 5-set victory over Federer in SF of Austrialian Open 2005.

Kafelnikov, on the other hand, had been more consistent and good enough to stay in top 10.

IMO, Safin is a better player if he plays to his full potential.
 
Didn't Kafelnikov become a poker pro when he quit tennis? These Russkis are crazy! Safin's childlike volatility wrapped up with awesome power and athleticism mean I know who I'd rather WATCH.. and that's a big part of which one is "better" to me, since you'll never know how similar the standard of opposition was.
 
quest01 said:
In my opinion, Kafelnifov is a better player. He holds a career 4-2 record against Federer
Click to expand...

So what? Consider the time period.

Kafelnikov doesn't own a single masters series shield and a good number of his titles are very minor (he played everywhere). I like his game of course, but I even find his majors suspect. Look at his draws and then look at Safin's. Marat beat Federer and Sampras on the way to his titles. Kafelnikov, admittedly, played Sampras in the FO SF in 1996, but that was on clay and a different story.
 
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