Karatsev Playing with a Shorty ??? (Conspiracy theory evidence)

taylor15 said:
I would say to make this last image accurate you would need a more straight on pic. The hoop measurement isn’t to the top center, and the handle is even father down the hoop.
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Feel free to remeasure yourself or contribute additional data. I actually measured several images and all of them measured about 26.75”.
 
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LX9eYSi.jpg
 
Anyone have a actual measurement of Head PT57A hoop length? It's possible that my left-hand calibration image is skewed by perspective.

I notice my Ultra Tour 97 has 13.75" hoop length. How does this compare to a PT57A? @moonshot?
 
When I measure as carefully as I can from these better images posted by @moon shot I am getting in the 26.75" range.

So still shorter than 27", but just a little.
 
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travlerajm said:
Anyone have a actual measurement of Head PT57A hoop length? It's possible that my left-hand calibration image is skewed by perspective.

I notice my Ultra Tour 97 has 13.75" hoop length. How does this compare to a PT57A? @moonshot?
Click to expand...
just measure both the PT630 (Shadow font) and RT630 (Bumblebee) - top of grommet to bottom of hoop is 34.5cm
the PT2.0 measured the same @ 34.5cm....
 
travlerajm said:
So is your conclusion that it's still 27"? It looks like lower edge grommets and base of V aren't quite lined up in your comparison, which would extend the right half another 1/4".
Click to expand...

Lenses of different focal lengths and construction have field curvature and angular differences due to their point of view to the object. My photo was less than 50mm while the getty image is probably shot with a 200-500mm lens. This is why my buttcap angles down and the top of the hoop angles up more than his frame.

When the top of the hoop and buttcap (where I think it is, too dark to tell) the top and bottom of the throat are quite close. I don't see an inch difference. If I scale my frame up to hit line up the throat and bridge then my buttcap is about .2" longer BUT that is the top of the buttcap which appears longer, the side of the buttcap and part touching the ground in my photo angle shorter with the perspective of the lens. Taking this into account I feel there is a fair chance they are the same.

Also your assumed hoop length of 13.25" would be correct from the outside top to the inside of the bridge but it appears by the lines drawn you are assuming that measurement is correct for the outside of the hoop which would be 13.625" or so.

Hope that helps!
 
esm said:
just measure both the PT630 (Shadow font) and RT630 (Bumblebee) - top of grommet to bottom of hoop is 34.5cm
the PT2.0 measured the same @ 34.5cm....
Click to expand...

what location on the bottom of the hoop? South end of the grommet in the throat?
 
moon shot said:
Lenses of different focal lengths and construction have field curvature and angular differences due to their point of view to the object. My photo was around 50mm while the getty image is probably shot with a 200-500mm lens. This is why my buttcap angles down and the top of the hoop angles up more than his frame.

When the top of the hoop and buttcap (where I think it is, too dark to tell) the top and bottom of the throat are quite close. I don't see an inch difference. If I scale my frame up to hit line up the throat and bridge then my buttcap is about .2" longer BUT that is the top of the buttcap which appears longer, the side of the buttcap and part touching the ground in my photo angle shorter with the perspective of the lens. Taking this into account I feel there is a fair chance they are the same.

Also your assumed hoop length of 13.25" would be correct from the outside top to the inside of the bridge but it appears by the lines drawn you are assuming that measurement is correct for the outside of the hoop which would be 13.625" or so.

Hope that helps!
Click to expand...
I just realized that racquet pics shot from up close do distort the perpective a bit. The closest to straight on image from distance I found so far from a pt57a player was Berdych. I got 13.62" proportion for his. Using 13.62" for the hoop proportion (which agrees with your estimate), I get 26.8" for Aslan based on your Aslan image (which I think is the closest to straight on I've seen). My other Aslan AO21 images measure out about 26.65".
So seems to be in 26.75" range.
 
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Ok guys.
I found all of web images ( N = 3 ) where I could clearly delineate the butt end of Karatsev's AO21 frame and where the racquet was photographed from a distance from orthogonal side view.
I also pulled up a large sampling of the images in the first page of the cult of pt57a thread ( thank you to @vsbabolat ) meeting the same restrictions for ex top players Murray, Guga, Haas, and Ferreira ( N = 8 ).
Assuming the hoop length of a pt57a is 13.625" (thank you to @moon shot 'for the measurement), I very carefully measured the length of all of the these frames using the proportion method.

Results:
Combined Average Racquet Length for Murray, Guga, Haas, and Ferreira images ( 26.95" ).
Average Racquet Length for Karatsev images ( 26.53" ).

Any additional data is welcomed, but it's not looking like AK used standard length for the AO21.

Edit: Ferreira seems to be the longest of these, Karatsev the shortest.
Ferreira >> Murray > Haas > Guga >> Karatsev
 
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travlerajm said:
Ok guys.
I found all of web images ( N = 3 ) where I could clearly delineate the butt end of Karatsev's AO21 frame and where the racquet was photographed from a distance from orthogonal side view.
I also pulled up a large sampling of the images in the first page of the cult of pt57a thread ( thank you to @vsbabolat ) meeting the same restrictions for ex top players Murray, Guga, Haas, and Ferreira ( N = 8 ).
Assuming the hoop length of a pt57a is 13.625" (thank you to @moon shot 'for the measurement), I very carefully measured the length of all of the these frames using the proportion method.

Results:
Combined Average Racquet Length for Murray, Guga, Haas, and Ferreira images ( 26.95" ).
Average Racquet Length for Karatsev images ( 26.53" ).

Any additional data is welcomed, but it's not looking like AK used standard length for the AO21.

Edit: Ferreira seems to be the longest of these, Karatsev the shortest.
Ferreira >> Murray > Haas > Guga >> Karatsev
Click to expand...
AK doesn’t use shorter than 27. But have at it
 
On a mostly related tangent - if manufacturers are truly targeting a 685mm length, this actually equates to 26.9685 inches, so very slightly short of true 27". I've bought many frames that were 1/16 or 1/8" short of 27" off the shelf. Add in some frame compression from stringing, and you will definitely be short of 27". Personally I wish the manufacturers would cut slightly above the 685mm mark. The fact that Aslan's racket length post-stringing may be slightly less than 27" does not mean it isn't a standard length racket based on the 685 cut and factory tolerances.
 
travlerajm said:
Entertaining this possibility... is the hoop length from tip to bottom of graphite at throat on a PT2.0 approximately 13-3/4”? (vs. 13-5/8” for a PT57A)?
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Check post 11 a if the tip starts at the top of the CAP grommet. Lol
But in any case, the hoop size should be the same as it is the same mould.
 
esm said:
Check post 11 a if the tip starts at the top of the CAP grommet. Lol
But in any case, the hoop size should be the same as it is the same mould.
Click to expand...
Update... I’ve now measured additional images of both Aslan racquet and Murray racquet (as a control) using the same method. The average length for Aslan racquet converging to about 26.7”. The average length for Murray racquet converging to about 27.05”. p < 0.005
 
travlerajm said:
Update... I’ve now measured additional images of both Aslan racquet and Murray racquet (as a control) using the same method. The average length for Aslan racquet converging to about 26.7”. The average length for Murray racquet converging to about 27.05”. p < 0.005
Click to expand...
You happen to know that p values are only reliable if you have a sample of more than 30 observations. Also what is the nullhypothesis here? That the racket is smaller than 27 inches? Stop this nonsense, buy yourself a pt57a and go hit some balls...
 
travlerajm said:
I just realized that racquet pics shot from up close do distort the perpective a bit. The closest to straight on image from distance I found so far from a pt57a player was Berdych. I got 13.62" proportion for his. Using 13.62" for the hoop proportion (which agrees with your estimate), I get 26.8" for Aslan based on your Aslan image (which I think is the closest to straight on I've seen). My other Aslan AO21 images measure out about 26.65".
So seems to be in 26.75" range.
Click to expand...
When did Berdych use a PT57A?
 
taylor15 said:
I would say to make this last image accurate you would need a more straight on pic. The hoop measurement isn’t to the top center, and the handle is even father down the hoop.
Click to expand...
These pictures are not accurate and furthermore his hoop could be deformed by stringing.
 
Length includes the butt cap to outside frame at 12 o'clock or inside? Every racquet I measure by including frame is plus 27
 
Benben245 said:
Length includes the butt cap to outside frame at 12 o'clock or inside? Every racquet I measure by including frame is plus 27
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When I measure images of Andy Murray’s racquet, for example, I get slightly longer than 27” in 100% of the images measured. I believe he uses poly main and gut crosses, so that might explain why his racquet is always slightly longer than 27.
 
travlerajm said:
When I measure images of Andy Murray’s racquet, for example, I get slightly longer than 27” in 100% of the images measured. I believe he uses poly main and gut crosses, so that might explain why his racquet is always slightly longer than 27.
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it seems Andy chocks up on the handle abit..... maybe that is the reason why it is slightly longer than 27"? donno.... lol
 
travlerajm said:
When I measure images of Andy Murray’s racquet, for example, I get slightly longer than 27” in 100% of the images measured. I believe he uses poly main and gut crosses, so that might explain why his racquet is always slightly longer than 27.
Click to expand...
Very interesting, thank you. As a 6’6 ogre I was always eager to try a racquet under 27, I inadvertently had came across a set of 2013 technifibre 315 Ltd racquets that we’re allegedly 26.57”. Though I never measure them personally, the sticks were deadly accurate, Almost like they made the ball larger. I think the anathema to shorter frames is the fear that ROS, and service will be negatively impacted. That said, if you already have the ‘length’ innately, the added leverage on groundstrokes with a plus racquet is definitely a net negative when it comes to accuracy. My swing arc is prone to all sorts of variance and my footwork is never going to be as crisp as someone with a lower center of gravity. (Which reminds me, let us all enjoy Medvedev while we can, the likelihood of his maintaining this elite movement at his height for years to come is slim).
 
Benben245 said:
Very interesting, thank you. As a 6’6 ogre I was always eager to try a racquet under 27, I inadvertently had came across a set of 2013 technifibre 315 Ltd racquets that we’re allegedly 26.57”. Though I never measure them personally, the sticks were deadly accurate, Almost like they made the ball larger. I think the anathema to shorter frames is the fear that ROS, and service will be negatively impacted. That said, if you already have the ‘length’ innately, the added leverage on groundstrokes with a plus racquet is definitely a net negative when it comes to accuracy. My swing arc is prone to all sorts of variance and my footwork is never going to be as crisp as someone with a lower center of gravity. (Which reminds me, let us all enjoy Medvedev while we can, the likelihood of his maintaining this elite movement at his height for years to come is slim).
Click to expand...
If two racquets have the same swingwright and same headsize, but one is slightly shorter than the other, the shorter one will have higher effective mass at the impact point. So the shorter one will be better for returns. AK has had ridiculously good return numbers in 2021.

Also, note that Djokovic’s return numbers dropped off a cliff after he switched from 26.9” length to 27.1” length after his run of dominant return numbers in 2011-2016. His serve numbers got a little better by going longer and slightly lighter, but his return numbers got much worse due to big drop in effective mass.

 
travlerajm said:
When I measure images of Andy Murray’s racquet, for example, I get slightly longer than 27” in 100% of the images measured. I believe he uses poly main and gut crosses, so that might explain why his racquet is always slightly longer than 27.
Click to expand...

If Andy's racquet measures only slightly more than 27" then it seems your measurements are consistently underestimating. His frame was 27.5" by all in person accounts.

Hope that helps!
 
moon shot said:
If Andy's racquet measures only slightly more than 27" then it seems your measurements are consistently underestimating. His frame was 27.5" by all in person accounts.

Hope that helps!
Click to expand...
Interesting. But when I look for length measurements of Murray’s racquet, all I found was this measurement:
 
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