Keeping eye on the ball.

Tjg

Rookie
Who else has a problem keeping their eye on the ball till after contact? I will tell myself 100+ times a match to watch the ball, but refuse to when the time comes. Or I will for the first couple returns, but then refuse to after. Go for a volley, look away last second and frame it. About to make a wide open shot, look away last second and frame it. At this point I think I need professional help to figure out why I refuse to watch the ball till contact.
 
YUP! It's one of the hardest things to do--the pros are good at it but they practice eight hours a day and have the court in their heads, having confidence that it won't be moving. Federer is a great example of keeping head down after the hit.

There are eye exercises that can help improve vision--see the Blake Techique--yoga for the eyes, the eyes have muscles that focus the eye-ball. OR, put a spot on the ball and practice focusing on the spot.
 
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Tjg

Rookie
YUP! It's one of the hardest things to do--the pros are good at it but they practice eight hours a day and have the court in their heads, having confidence that it won't be moving. Federer is a great example of keeping head down after the hit.

There are eye exercises that can help improve vision--see the Blake Techique--yoga for the eyes, the eyes have muscles that focus the eye-ball. OR, put a spot on the ball and practice focusing on the spot.
I have played many sports that require keeping your eye on the ball. Golf for example, you need to keep your head down and eye on the ball or you will top it. From time you time you will look away, but it’s a whole different level of miss hitting with tennis. Watching the ball is sports 101. I just have some sort of complex with a tennis ball. But I will look into those exercises.
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
But do we really have to watch the ball "all the way into the strings" which is often taught? I find that you generally "release" from watching the ball directly before it gets to your strings.
 
But do we really have to watch the ball "all the way into the strings"
No, because the strings will be blocking your view of the ball--you'll be seeing the ball through the strings--or, trying to shift focus between the strings and watching the ball--just watch the ball, "spot the ball". To practice you can put a spot on the ball with a sharpie, or if you don't want to mark up your brand new match balls focus on reading the label on the ball, or the number on the ball, or a long hair on the ball. Pros eyes see in more frames per second then householders eyeballs. They practice eight hours a day. Now hit a million practice balls. The stroke will adjust to the finding the sweet spot on the strings without having to look at the strings--you'll feel when it's right. The hand is quicker then the eye--ask any magician.
 

Tjg

Rookie
But do we really have to watch the ball "all the way into the strings" which is often taught? I find that you generally "release" from watching the ball directly before it gets to your strings.
When I watch the ball until I make contact, my shot success is greater with less chance of framing it. It’s when I turn my head before contact that equals framing. I don’t expect to see the ball hit the strings, it’s just not moving my head which tends to pulls my arm up enough to not hit the sweet spot.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Nobody sees the ball at contact. Refresh rate on your retina isn't fast enough once your head and eyes stop moving. But it's crucial in sports like tennis and golf to keep your head still through the swing so that your body doesn't shift in response. Your head should move when the body forces it to, not vice versa.

The problem is that our tracking system is anticipatory, so we naturally start moving our eyes and head in anticipation of where the shot is going so we can quickly get a bead on it. We have to overcome that natural tendency to properly keep eyes and head still while swinging. Takes a lot of practice. I can usually do it for a shot or two but in a long rally it's really hard to keep that focus if its not totally ingrained.
 
I don't watch the ball to contact on ground strokes, on overheads, serves, and some volleys that are in front I get close but half volleys, side volleys, there's no way and overall I'm never seeing that ball hit the strings.
 

Tjg

Rookie
I meant not moving my head until contact is made, there is no way you can see the ball hit the strings on ground strokes. When I move my head right before contact, my arm naturally moves up enough to throw off contact.
 

time_fly

Hall of Fame
Who else has a problem keeping their eye on the ball till after contact? I will tell myself 100+ times a match to watch the ball, but refuse to when the time comes. Or I will for the first couple returns, but then refuse to after. Go for a volley, look away last second and frame it. About to make a wide open shot, look away last second and frame it. At this point I think I need professional help to figure out why I refuse to watch the ball till contact.

The problem with tennis is you can get away with pulling your head off and still generally hit the ball. You just won't hit it as well. In baseball, the lesson of keeping the head down on the ball sinks in with most beginners quickly because the embarrassing whiffs provide immediate feedback. When I'm struggling to make clean contact and I suspect my head is pulling off, I use my shoulders as a cue. My chin should start down on my lead shoulder and stay in that position until my rear shoulder meets it on the follow through. I probably tuck up my shoulders more than I "should" for a perfect swing in order to get this feedback but usually it's a net positive on my shot quality.
 
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Sport

G.O.A.T.
Dominic Thiem typically hits the ball with the eyes closed.


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Traffic

Hall of Fame
I find that lately, my BH has been more consistent than my FH on ROS and mid-rally balls. I feel like it's because I keep tracking the ball closer to contact on my BH than my FH. I have no idea why I can't track the ball on my FH side as closely...
 

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
I think it’s impossible to see the seams and writing on the ball, because it’s just a blur, maybe on the serve but not any other strokes. But I do think you can use peripheral vision to watch the racquet hit the fast moving ball. Your eyes can’t focus to that degree of seeing details on the ball but with peripheral vision you can focus to make good contact.
 
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time_fly

Hall of Fame
Whatever inconsistency you think Thiem got has nothing to do with him closing his eyes in those pictures.
I agree, in those pictures the ball is either on his strings or leaving them already, so the eyes closed isn’t really a big problem. The fact that his head is already facing up and away from the ball at contact is a bigger issue. In the top pic for example he looks like he is hitting a massive shank and you can see there was no way his head was on the ball anywhere approaching contact.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
And while he hits a heavy ball, he’s not exactly a model of consistency, is he?

Admittedly in all those shots his head is in the exact same position relative to his swing. So if anything he is consistent with keeping the head still. Maybe closing his eyes is his way to untrain his tracking mechanism. If your eyes are closed you can't look away to follow the ball.
 

ichaseballs

Professional
haha we need a thread with only pics of thiem making contact with his eyes closed. i heard on tv commentary that he does this consistently
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Who else has a problem keeping their eye on the ball till after contact? I will tell myself 100+ times a match to watch the ball, but refuse to when the time comes. Or I will for the first couple returns, but then refuse to after. Go for a volley, look away last second and frame it. About to make a wide open shot, look away last second and frame it. At this point I think I need professional help to figure out why I refuse to watch the ball till contact.

It's normal to follow the moving object. I got some advice from a former pro: as a way to re-wire your brain, watch the contact point for 3 seconds before lifting your head up to see where it went.

Obviously this won't work in a real point but it's a good practice trick. As you get better at watching the contact point, scale back the hold time.

If you have a hard time doing it in a rally, do shadow swings and pick an imaginary contact point. Then do drop feeds. etc.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
I think it’s impossible to see the seams and writing on the ball, because it’s just a blur, maybe on the serve but not any other strokes. But I do think you can use peripheral vision to watch the racquet hit the fast moving ball. Your eyes can’t focus to that degree of seeing details on the ball but with peripheral vision you can focus to make good contact.

The point isn't to actually see the ball hitting the strings [which lasts about 4ms]; the point is to not move your head as you're hitting to maximize your stability.
 

pencilcheck

Hall of Fame
Who else has a problem keeping their eye on the ball till after contact? I will tell myself 100+ times a match to watch the ball, but refuse to when the time comes. Or I will for the first couple returns, but then refuse to after. Go for a volley, look away last second and frame it. About to make a wide open shot, look away last second and frame it. At this point I think I need professional help to figure out why I refuse to watch the ball till contact.
I don't think any of what you described were attributed to not watching the ball, that is a tip used for beginners because there are so many other things that are also moving parts, this way it purposefully limits the variables so it is easier to teach later, and clearly you are not, right? Those sounds to me most likely a technical problem instead, try film yourself and see why you frame the ball, and see if adjusting your mental image of how you should hit change would fix it instead.
 
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SeeItHitIt

Professional
I think the best advice I was given was to ‘just slow down’ (given that you’re in a good position to hit already). My old hitting coach always expressed your have ‘more time than you think’. In my case it helped me be more solid with contact regardless of shot being played.
 

Ruark

Professional
I think a lot of it has to do with being target conscious. When we throw an object at a target, e.g. a football, we naturally focus on the target visually while we throw it. But we're not doing that in tennis; in tennis, we're hitting an object with a racket. You're hitting a stationary, fixed point in space with your racket, just like you would if you were swatting a fly, or driving a nail with a hammer. How do you drive a nail? You focus visually, very intensely, on the head of the nail. If you don't, you will miss it. It's the exact same principle as hitting a golf ball. You're not swinging the club at the green 400 yards away; you're swinging at a little white ball down on the ground in front of you, and if you look it away from it for a split-second, you'll miss the shot. Golfers go to far away workshops, spend thousands on lessons and custom clubs, etc., but, because they don't focus visually on the impact point as they swing through it, they spend their lives scattering balls ten ways from Sunday.

When you think about it, it's logical. How do you hit a stationary object without looking at it?

Of course, the best example is Federer's forehand. Watch his forehand on YouTube sometimes. The ball has already crossed the net, and he's still focusing intently on the point of impact. Same with his backhand and serve, for that matter.

It's really astounding how many beginners struggle and struggle for years with lessons and techniques and practice, and, like the golf duffer who spends thousands on lessons and still can't break 90, still can't hit the side of a barn because they disregard this one, single, simple critical element of a stroke.

An interesting anecdote on this subject.... on a clear, sunny day a couple of months ago, I was practicing my serve about 1:30 p.m. On one end of the court, I saw a clear blue sky, but on the other end, the sun was in EXACTLY the same spot as the ball when I tossed it. It was just BLINDING; I couldn't even see the ball. Impossible, right? No, it was just the opposite. When I served from the "blue sky" end, I did OK, but hit some duds, nothing special. But when I served from the "blinding sun" end, wow!!! ... I hit one fantastic, blistering, cannonball serve after another. WTF? What happened was that the blinding sun forced me to focus as intently on the ball as possible - I had to, in order to see it - and as a result my serves were absolutely dead on. An interesting lesson.
 
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sredna42

Hall of Fame
It helps incredibly, but also because if your head stays still, your body also stays in postion during the hit and doesn't pull up/off/away causing a mis hit, or inaccurate shot.

Same as when if you are driving, if you turn to look at something you will have a tendency to steer that way slightly too.
 

Tjg

Rookie
I don't think any of what you described were attributed to not watching the ball, that is a tip used for beginners because there are so many other things that are also moving parts, this way it purposefully limits the variables so it is easier to teach later, and clearly you are not, right? Those sounds to me most likely a technical problem instead, try film yourself and see why you frame the ball, and see if adjusting your mental image of how you should hit change would fix it instead.
I have filmed myself and that has helped for other things. When I keep my eye on the ball and do not move my head till after I make contact, I hit the ball well. When I move my head before contact, I will hit some of my frame. Sure, that is not the cause of every bad shot, but my shot success rate is 80% greater when I don’t move my head till after contact. There are times I don’t even watch the ball get close to my racquet. On volleys for example. I will see it coming, but not even turn my head at all, just keep looking straight. I don’t get it.
I just played a match, where again, the same thing happened. I started playing well then continued to refuse to look at the ball until after contact.....I couldn’t hold serve or break theirs when i would have multiple break/hold points to do so, the mental side kicked in and really made me crumble....but I guess that is tennis for ya!
 

Tjg

Rookie
It helps incredibly, but also because if your head stays still, your body also stays in postion during the hit and doesn't pull up/off/away causing a mis hit, or inaccurate shot.

Same as when if you are driving, if you turn to look at something you will have a tendency to steer that way slightly too.
That is exactly my problem. I move my head and pull my arm, causing me to hit some of the frame or below the sweet spot, causing the ball to dive into the net. I will tell myself literally 100+ times to watch the ball and refuse to do so.
I think I need to seek some professional help...I am talking a panel of shrinks digging deep to find the subconscious fear I have of looking at the tennis ball. I don’t have this issue with other ball sports.
Did a tennis ball hurt me as a child? Have I been scarred for life from some tennis ball incident I have suppressed?!?! I DONT GET IT!
 

sredna42

Hall of Fame
That is exactly my problem. I move my head and pull my arm, causing me to hit some of the frame or below the sweet spot, causing the ball to dive into the net. I will tell myself literally 100+ times to watch the ball and refuse to do so.
I think I need to seek some professional help...I am talking a panel of shrinks digging deep to find the subconscious fear I have of looking at the tennis ball. I don’t have this issue with other ball sports.
Did a tennis ball hurt me as a child? Have I been scarred for life from some tennis ball incident I have suppressed?!?! I DONT GET IT!
LOL! Mate I'm the same, just because I wrote some advice that sounded good, doesn't mean I can actually do it.
What I am finding helps is to just have a hit that is slowed down. Just a mutual 60% rally, so you have that extra time to keep it all together and stay focused on the ball, and also if you aren't making a huge effort when you a hitting, maybe it will stop you tensing up before the hit. Maybe even use those kiddy balls with the green spot to practice your focus?
 

pencilcheck

Hall of Fame
That is exactly my problem. I move my head and pull my arm, causing me to hit some of the frame or below the sweet spot, causing the ball to dive into the net. I will tell myself literally 100+ times to watch the ball and refuse to do so.
I think I need to seek some professional help...I am talking a panel of shrinks digging deep to find the subconscious fear I have of looking at the tennis ball. I don’t have this issue with other ball sports.
Did a tennis ball hurt me as a child? Have I been scarred for life from some tennis ball incident I have suppressed?!?! I DONT GET IT!
And like I said earlier, moving your head or not doesn’t affect whether you can hit it clean it has to do with your way of approaching the ball, the follow through and footwork. If you are not doing them correctly you will shank no matter what, even if you watch the ball.

if you think you are shanking because of moving your head that just means you are arming the ball and thus you do chicken wing swing unconsciously and that is one main reasons rec players have that causes shanks
 

Tjg

Rookie
And like I said earlier, moving your head or not doesn’t affect whether you can hit it clean it has to do with your way of approaching the ball, the follow through and footwork. If you are not doing them correctly you will shank no matter what, even if you watch the ball.

if you think you are shanking because of moving your head that just means you are arming the ball and thus you do chicken wing swing unconsciously and that is one main reasons rec players have that causes shanks

I guess you would know better than me.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
And while he hits a heavy ball, he’s not exactly a model of consistency, is he?
Thiem is certainly a good role model. Thiem is #3 in the world, meaning only two players in the planet are better than him at the moment (Nadal and Djokovic). You can't reach the #3 without certain concistency.

It also depends on which style do you prefer to imitate. If you want to imiate players with a less risky style than Thiem, that is aslo a valid option.
 

time_fly

Hall of Fame
Thiem is certainly a good role model. Thiem is #3 in the world, meaning only two players in the planet are better than him at the moment (Nadal and Djokovic). You can't reach the #3 without certain concistency.

It also depends on which style do you prefer to imitate. If you want to imiate players with a less risky style than Thiem, that is aslo a valid option.

Many top pros get where they are at least partially by just plain being freaks of nature. Nobody would advise training a kid the way Nadal was brought up, or teaching students to hit a buggy-whip forehand as their standard rally forehand. But Nadal is so athletically gifted that the “unconventional” stuff works for him. I wouldn’t advise aspiring tennis players to hit like Nadal, or pull their head up and away from the ball and close their eyes like Thiem.
 

pencilcheck

Hall of Fame
Many top pros get where they are at least partially by just plain being freaks of nature. Nobody would advise training a kid the way Nadal was brought up, or teaching students to hit a buggy-whip forehand as their standard rally forehand. But Nadal is so athletically gifted that the “unconventional” stuff works for him. I wouldn’t advise aspiring tennis players to hit like Nadal, or pull their head up and away from the ball and close their eyes like Thiem.
i would focus on other stuff, watching the ball is very experienced based, better to teach other more important teachable stuff such as mental images and relaxation and core training
 

Ruark

Professional
That is exactly my problem. I move my head and pull my arm, causing me to hit some of the frame or below the sweet spot, causing the ball to dive into the net. I will tell myself literally 100+ times to watch the ball and refuse to do so.
You are absolutely not alone. I used to ask my tennis pro, " How do you make the body obey the mind?"
 

pencilcheck

Hall of Fame
I guess you would know better than me.
Btw since you mention you know how you frame the ball, perhaps the quick fix bandaid is to imagine lower contact point? I think you underestimate how fast ball drops sometimes and frame. Get more used to how ball drops and predict contact point to hit clean
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Dominic Thiem typically hits the ball with the eyes closed.


images



4000.jpg

dominic-thiem-of-austria-plays-a-forehand-in-his-match-against-roger-picture-id530956124


thiem-forehand-shot-tennis.jpg
Very good point / clue.

"Watching" the ball in tennis is a technique like many other actions.

Sadly for many rec players, they interpret the technique as regular everyday seeing, only longer or more intense, ie writing dots, letters on the ball!
 

Tjg

Rookie
Very good point / clue.

"Watching" the ball in tennis is a technique like many other actions.

Sadly for many rec players, they interpret the technique as regular everyday seeing, only longer or more intense, ie writing dots, letters on the ball!
I do not believe I am one of those players. It’s more about turning my head early and making my are come up. I will watch the ball, start to swing and a before contact, turn my head so my arm pulls up making my contact point lower on my racquet missing the sweet spot or hitting frame. I know that’s not the issue every time, but when I am able to force myself to keep my eyes locked and head straight till contact my shot success rate skyrockets.
 
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