Ken Rosewall

[Dan Lobb]

Part of that is because, he and Hoad, were considerably younger than the top amateurs of that time. I believe Ken was 18 or 19 when he won the Australian and French majors in 53. Hoad, if I recall correctly, did not win his first slams until 56. Ken had won 4 majors by the end of 56 just before turning 22.

True, but Hoad had been ranked world number one for 1953. Those '53 majors won by Ken were weak field events with Trabert missing from the fields.

 

[thrust]

A nice promo article there...I would not rate Ken in the Top Ten all-time, although he would certainly rank near the top in terms of longevity.

How many players won more tournaments post 1950 than Ken, or more pro majors? Only Laver won more important tournaments, while Ken more pro majors than Gonzalez who was on the torur about 7 more years.

 

[Dan Lobb]

How many players won more tournaments post 1950 than Ken, or more pro majors? Only Laver won more important tournaments, while Ken more pro majors than Gonzalez who was on the torur about 7 more years.

The term "pro major" was not even used by the pros themselves! It was invented by a tennis writer years later.

I prefer to look at the actual rankings of the time when the players were active on the tour.

Ken was at a disadvantage in terms of hth matchups against Gonzales, Hoad, and Laver on the major professional tours.

 

[thrust]

The term "pro major" was not even used by the pros themselves! It was invented by a tennis writer years later.

I prefer to look at the actual rankings of the time when the players were active on the tour.

Ken was at a disadvantage in terms of hth matchups against Gonzales, Hoad, and Laver on the major professional tours.

I believe ken won a couple of pro tours, that Hoad was competing in. My main point is that Ken, career wise, accomplished more tournament wins than Gonzalez or Hoad. Ken won 140 or more tournaments. Federer won 103, Connors-109, Djokovic-99, Nadal-92. Only Laver won more than Ken. On the pro tour Ken was 6-4 over Laver in what is now considered pro tour majors, finals. In the open era, they are 1-1 in slam finas, and Ken is 2-0 over Laver in WCT finals.

 

[Dan Lobb]

I believe ken won a couple of pro tours, that Hoad was competing in. My main point is that Ken, career wise, accomplished more tournament wins than Gonzalez or Hoad. Ken won 140 or more tournaments. Federer won 103, Connors-109, Djokovic-99, Nadal-92. Only Laver won more than Ken. On the pro tour Ken was 6-4 over Laver in what is now considered pro tour majors, finals. In the open era, they are 1-1 in slam finas, and Ken is 2-0 over Laver in WCT finals.

Actually, Hoad bettered Rosewall in all official designated major pro tours before 1964, by which time Hoad was a part-timer and playing on only an occasional basis.

1957 Europe-Africa-Asia four-man tour: Hoad df. Rosewall 16-15
1959 Ampol world championship: Hoad df. Rosewall: 6-2

Hoad had a much better record against Gonzales than Rosewall did on the 1958 and 1959 world professional championship tours, while Rosewall's record against Gonzales was much weaker in 1957 and 1960.
Hoad also won a tour against Gonzales in Britain in 1961.

 

[thrust]

True, but Hoad had been ranked world number one for 1953. Those '53 majors won by Ken were weak field events with Trabert missing from the fields.

So Trabert, who accomplished very little on the pro tour, was unbeatable in 53? Ken did beat Vic Sexias in the FO final, after Vic had easily beat Hoad in the. quarters and most of the rest of 53. As far as the pro tours, very few count one night exhibitions as important as tournaments won, especially: Wembley, French Pro and the US Pro or Cleveland.

 

[Dan Lobb]

So Trabert, who accomplished very little on the pro tour, was unbeatable in 53? Ken did beat Vic Sexias in the FO final, after Vic had easily beat Hoad in the. quarters and most of the rest of 53. As far as the pro tours, very few count one night exhibitions as important as tournaments won, especially: Wembley, French Pro and the US Pro or Cleveland.

I might agree with you that the major tournaments were more important than the world tours, apart from the 1959 world championship tour which consisted of a series of major tournaments.

However my list of important tournaments from the late fifties is,

1) Forest Hills Tournament of Champions
2) Kooyong or White City Tournament of Champions
3) White City or L.A. Masters
4) Roland Garros Pro
5) Wembley Indoor
6) Cleveland Indoor

Rosewall did not win at Cleveland or Forest Hills, Kooyong, White City, L.A..

 

[thrust]

I might agree with you that the major tournaments were more important than the world tours, apart from 1959 which consisted of a series of major tournaments.

However my list of important tournaments from the late fifties is,

1) Forest Hills Tournament of Champions
2) Kooyong or White City Tournament of Champions
3) White City or L.A. Masters
4) Roland Garros Pro
5) Wembley Indoor
6) Cleveland Indoor

Rosewall did not win at Cleveland or Forest Hills.

From 1957 till 63, Ken did not play the US Pro at Cleveland because he was visiting his family in Australia at the time of that tournament. He returned to the US Pro at Forest Hills in 63 where he beat Laver in the final as he also did in 65

 

[Dan Lobb]

From 1957 till 63, Ken did not play the US Pro at Cleveland because he was visiting his family in Australia at the time of that tournament. He returned to the US Pro at Forest Hills in 63 where he beat Laver in the final as he also did in 65

If the Cleveland tournament had been important to Rosewall (I think that he did play at Cleveland in 1957) he would have found the time to play it.

In the 1957 Cleveland tournament, Rosewall defeated Bobby Riggs in the first round before losing to Pancho Segura in the semifinal.

Rosewall was in the U.S. during the Cleveland event in 1960, but he elected to skip the Cleveland tournament.

Jack Kramer had excluded the 1959 and the 1960 Cleveland events from his world championship tournament series.

Actually, Rosewall did find the time to play in the top 5 tournaments which I listed above, winning at Wembley Indoor and at Roland Garros.

 

[thrust]

If the Cleveland tournament had been important to Rosewall (I think that he did play at Cleveland in 1957) he would have found the time to play it.

In the 1957 Cleveland tournament, Rosewall defeated Bobby Riggs in the first round before losing to Pancho Segura in the semifinal.

Rosewall was in the U.S. during the Cleveland event in 1960, but he elected to skip the Cleveland tournament.

Jack Kramer had excluded the 1959 and the 1960 Cleveland events from his world championship tournament series.

Actually, Rosewall did find the time to play in the top 5 tournaments which I listed above, winning at Wembley Indoor and at Roland Garros.

From what I have read, the Cleveland tournament usually had the weaker draws vs Wembley and the French Pro, until about 63. Also, isn't Ken entitled to take time off to visit his family, far away?