Hey cheers for the welcome. I havent weighed the racket or measured its balance or swing wieght. i cant measure its balance as i dont know how to and i dont think i have the right equipment but i'll weigh it tomorow. what number am i in the club???
KFactor K Six-One Tour 90 Club
- Thread starter leonardtay
- Start date
Hey cheers for the welcome. I havent weighed the racket or measured its balance or swing wieght. i cant measure its balance as i dont know how to and i dont think i have the right equipment but i'll weigh it tomorow. what number am i in the club???
andrew_fernando2
New User
will somone please comment on how the k90 racquet compares to the n90 and the ps tour 90?
i prefer the ps tour 90 to the n90 and am considering purchasing a k90, and would like to hear some input if willing.
thanks
i prefer the ps tour 90 to the n90 and am considering purchasing a k90, and would like to hear some input if willing.
thanks
Well got my second K90 from a totally different source. This one is used. Same grip size, same overgrip, but, different strings and they weigh exactly the same 360 grams. Damn was I lucky!! I think I might just have to settle for two. Does Poly tend to snap quicker than other strings. I remember reading if you frame a lot it can snap the strings. I want a 3rd K90 hopefully my luck will continue!
I used to be a member of the K90 club where I had 3 K90's but I have sold them about 2 months ago. They were good racquets but i wanted a racquet which offered more power. The only way to generate power with the K90 is to hit everything flat or with marginal topspin. Its difficult to blast winners from the baseline with heavy topspin when using the K90.
I dunno, i'm a fairly small guy (5' 7" and under 150 lbs) and i can generate tons of power with the K90...i love it
Thats why I like it so much. I have plenty of my own power to hit the ball out with!
I also prefer to hit fairly flat. I only hit a lot of topspin in certain situations I dont really have a lot of problems with it then.
leonardtay
Semi-Pro
Give the K90 a try... I am a rough 4.5 and I use the K90 with no troubles at all. The weight of the stick may be tough for you if you are not used to hefty racquets but I am sure that you can get used to that. Important thing is to try the stick out and see if it is a match for you.
harryz
Professional
I have six and love 'em
Here's my review of the KPS 88, which references the K90 and a bunch of other frames in mini reviews-- for what it's worth. As great as the KPS is, I'm liking my K90s better these days. For me, the K90 is the finest racquet made. It provides easier access to spin and softer and more forgiving than the KPS. I'm leaning towards sticking with the K90. It is a GREAT racquet.
---------------------------
Initial Review of KPS 88
Hit for about 90 minutes yesterday, plus about 10-15 with the K90 for comparison. I had been loving the K90 even more than my RDS 001 and MGPM lately. All four sticks are great, and I could use any of the four and be happy if forced to choose. I just keep coming back to Wilson mids; the grip shape, balance, feel, spin potential and plow through factor are unmatched, in combination. Here are some thoughts:
Racquet Specifics
Frame is a 1/2. I normally play with 3/8 but 1/2 felt right and I used one tournagrip. I don't have a scale so I can't measure the weight. It swings about the same as my polarized K90 (which has a Wilson overgrip and 3 grams of lead at 12 o'clock). I plan to get it measured. I also plan to try CC's approach and remove the grip and just use a couple of overwraps and lead to compensate.
Cosmetics
My favorite PS 90 so far. Elegant and simple, and I prefer black over the K90. This is a 90, and is the same size as the K90 when held up together, so that's not an issue. That being said, the K90 and N90 looked great to me. But the KPS looks more like a REAL Pro Staff. Those who know will get what I mean, I'd imagine. 9+/10 (PS 85 is 10/10, by the way, for me)
Weight and Balance
After reading all sorts of stuff about the weight of the frame, and after an initial demo about 2-3 weeks ago, I was a bit concerned about the unmodified weight of the stick. In comparison to the K90, it is noticeably less head light and feels better balanced. Weight is not an issue for me. The balance is not as HL as I like, and I'll experiment with Drak/ Magic Man's mods. I may modify the bumper guard; how in the world someone does this on a strung frame is amazing to me, (?!) and I've been stringing for over 30 years. Not sure how to rate this category, since it's such a subjective thing. Then again, so is the rest. 8/10
Groundstrokes
CC has it right: you need to let the racquet swing itself and not force it. Just make sure to hit early with low to high stroke, keeping a closed face if you want good topspin. That being said, hitting flat is a great joy with this stick, and my slice 1HBH is penetrating and NASTY with this one. With the right string, I'm guessing more like an 8.5-9/10 once I get used to it. Reminds me of a heftier, more substantial PS 85 that isn't quite as head light. More modern and maybe even better, if that's possible. Did I REALLY just say that? Yes, I did, and I spent years with the PS 85 (though I never owned the vaunted St. Vincent model). 8+/10, initially
Volleys
Stick the racket out front, open the face a bit, squeeze the handle at contact and volleys and half-volleys are a dream. Crisp, deep and solid as can be. Soften the hands and hit feathery drop volleys. Like Granville says, "a scalpel." Along with the serve, my favorite shot with this frame. Hit reflex volleys with my hitting partner yesterday- a 4.5 teaching pro-- and was shocked by the manueverability. Once I make this a bit more HL, it will be even better. 9+/10
Serves
The best serving frame I've used to date. Even better than PS 85 or K90 for me. Slice, kick and flat-- though I can only hit 75-100 serves still as I'm nursing torn/ re-torn ab muscles with massage etc... Still can hit the flat one out wide in the ad court with some heat, and when I get good knee bend and extension I simply can't miss a serve and feel like I can hit targets all day. 9.5/10 (if not better)
Overall 9/10
With the right string set up and modifications to make the KPS more head light, I can't imagine a better frame for me. Mine is strung with Gamma TNT 17 at about 58lbs. I plan to do a hybrid set up shortly.
Comparisons: first the "big four" (including the KPS 8 and others...
The MGPM has umatched feel for me. It needs a bit of lead to enlarge the sweet zone, which is already big. Feedback to the hand is amazing. Good access to spin for a dense pattern stick. I just prefer the overall impact of the KPS, but this is a fantastic frame. I also love the sound of hitting with this one-- kind of a "whoooosh" effect that is unique and satisfying.
The RDS 001 is stable, solid and predictable everywhere on the court, with excellent feel and access to spin. I don't like the cosmetics or head shape, and still the RDS is right up there with the others once it is leaded up in the handle and head. Doesn't serve like the KPS (what does?), K90 or MGPM, and I find the paint job too distracting. The cushioned feel at contact is sweet and the Yonex QC is second to none. A GREAT frame, too.
The K90 is everything that CC and Kai-El have described. I love the access to spin, the feedback and the heaviness of shot that it provides. Until I hit with the KPS, I was going to stick with the K90s, since I have 6 of them. Now I'm not so sure. Until yesterday, I thought that a leaded K90 played like a KPS. Not so. The KPS must have a different layup, so it's not just the weight and balance.
Along with the KPS 88, I believe that these are the finest frames being made now, including MP frames. I've tried many MPs including the KBT MP, Rebel, Exo 93, PB10, MGPP, RDX 500 MP, MGPM+ etc... and still prefer heavy mids. Bessides, 90s often look about as big as 95s when held up close, so I don't agree with the idea that 95s are more "realistic," even though that makes sense to many. It simply doesn't translate on the court as far as I'm concerned.
Some other contenders
The AG 100 is too light and too much of a toy for me, even with lead. Even with plenty of lead. Wanted to like it and maybe with an ounce or more of lead it would be fine. Why bother?
The KBT is a toy. Too stiff and too harsh. Lead makes no difference. WAY overshadowed by the MGPM in my view.
KBT Mid Plus is pretty nice once leaded up. But not as nice as other 18x20 frames and it's not too different from a MGPM or FXP MP with the dense pattern and oval head shape. I'd opt for an FXP MP any day. Excellent frame, that one.
Diablo Mid is too tinny and harsh on off center hits, and a bit too stiff feeling even though it is rated as less stiff than the K90. Must be how and where it is stiff. I really distrust the RDC ratings and find that it is WHERE frames are stiff that matters most. For example, the Volkl PB 10 is a fine frame that is stiff in the hoop, and this makes it very uncomfortable and harsh for me, even with soft string.
RDX 500 mid is wonderful, and almost in the same league as the "big four" I've mentioned. Unmatched feel, but just too soft. How does anyone end points with this stick? Great looking, good in the hand, big and generous sweet zone and still not stable enough or solid enough for me. Wish it were. And it still has that damn Yonex shape. Love it or leave it. I'll leave it for others. The RDS 001 is more satisfying for the modern game, IMO.
Rebel and Exo 3-- no thanks. Neither is in the same league as the others. POG mid is better but too stiff and harsh off center. If only the mid played like the OS.... that might be the best frame ever. Maybe the unubtainium four stripe? Nah....
Head iPrestige is said to be amazing and I trust Drak and others on this, but sadly I've never had the chance to try it out. My loss.
Head LMP mid is a fine, flexible frame. Nicely made with good heft. Almost impossible for me to generate topspin for some reason. Also still a bit tinny without lead, and too heavy feeling with it, even though static weight is lower than the K90 (probably because it's less HL) and others. Not for me, ultimately. Damn-- I have SEVEN of these, five of which are new.
Gamma G325 and Donnay Pro 1 MP are both fine sticks. Both are too soft and neither has the plow throught I want, even with lead. Great MP frames, still, and I've heard that the G325 is made for Gamma by Wilson. Kind of reminds me of the PS 95, but better.
N95 16x18 and 18x20 are both great and among my favorites, but I don't like the 22mm width and they feel a bit "clunky." I just prefer thinner beams.
K95 (both patterns) is simply too stiff and tinny for me.
PS 6.1 classic is a great frame but also too stiff. The 95 family 16x18s have always been an enigma for me, like the 6.0 95. I've wanted to like them. The 6.1 family frames with open patterns require exaggerated spin production or reduced bat speed to keep the ball in the court given my strokes. Feel is excellent for stiff frames, and the N95 open pattern is my favorite of the bunch.
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All in all the KPS is as good as it gets. I'm really happy that I decided to buy one. Now to get auctions up on line to sell off the others.
Harry
Here's my review of the KPS 88, which references the K90 and a bunch of other frames in mini reviews-- for what it's worth. As great as the KPS is, I'm liking my K90s better these days. For me, the K90 is the finest racquet made. It provides easier access to spin and softer and more forgiving than the KPS. I'm leaning towards sticking with the K90. It is a GREAT racquet.
---------------------------
Initial Review of KPS 88
Hit for about 90 minutes yesterday, plus about 10-15 with the K90 for comparison. I had been loving the K90 even more than my RDS 001 and MGPM lately. All four sticks are great, and I could use any of the four and be happy if forced to choose. I just keep coming back to Wilson mids; the grip shape, balance, feel, spin potential and plow through factor are unmatched, in combination. Here are some thoughts:
Racquet Specifics
Frame is a 1/2. I normally play with 3/8 but 1/2 felt right and I used one tournagrip. I don't have a scale so I can't measure the weight. It swings about the same as my polarized K90 (which has a Wilson overgrip and 3 grams of lead at 12 o'clock). I plan to get it measured. I also plan to try CC's approach and remove the grip and just use a couple of overwraps and lead to compensate.
Cosmetics
My favorite PS 90 so far. Elegant and simple, and I prefer black over the K90. This is a 90, and is the same size as the K90 when held up together, so that's not an issue. That being said, the K90 and N90 looked great to me. But the KPS looks more like a REAL Pro Staff. Those who know will get what I mean, I'd imagine. 9+/10 (PS 85 is 10/10, by the way, for me)
Weight and Balance
After reading all sorts of stuff about the weight of the frame, and after an initial demo about 2-3 weeks ago, I was a bit concerned about the unmodified weight of the stick. In comparison to the K90, it is noticeably less head light and feels better balanced. Weight is not an issue for me. The balance is not as HL as I like, and I'll experiment with Drak/ Magic Man's mods. I may modify the bumper guard; how in the world someone does this on a strung frame is amazing to me, (?!) and I've been stringing for over 30 years. Not sure how to rate this category, since it's such a subjective thing. Then again, so is the rest. 8/10
Groundstrokes
CC has it right: you need to let the racquet swing itself and not force it. Just make sure to hit early with low to high stroke, keeping a closed face if you want good topspin. That being said, hitting flat is a great joy with this stick, and my slice 1HBH is penetrating and NASTY with this one. With the right string, I'm guessing more like an 8.5-9/10 once I get used to it. Reminds me of a heftier, more substantial PS 85 that isn't quite as head light. More modern and maybe even better, if that's possible. Did I REALLY just say that? Yes, I did, and I spent years with the PS 85 (though I never owned the vaunted St. Vincent model). 8+/10, initially
Volleys
Stick the racket out front, open the face a bit, squeeze the handle at contact and volleys and half-volleys are a dream. Crisp, deep and solid as can be. Soften the hands and hit feathery drop volleys. Like Granville says, "a scalpel." Along with the serve, my favorite shot with this frame. Hit reflex volleys with my hitting partner yesterday- a 4.5 teaching pro-- and was shocked by the manueverability. Once I make this a bit more HL, it will be even better. 9+/10
Serves
The best serving frame I've used to date. Even better than PS 85 or K90 for me. Slice, kick and flat-- though I can only hit 75-100 serves still as I'm nursing torn/ re-torn ab muscles with massage etc... Still can hit the flat one out wide in the ad court with some heat, and when I get good knee bend and extension I simply can't miss a serve and feel like I can hit targets all day. 9.5/10 (if not better)
Overall 9/10
With the right string set up and modifications to make the KPS more head light, I can't imagine a better frame for me. Mine is strung with Gamma TNT 17 at about 58lbs. I plan to do a hybrid set up shortly.
Comparisons: first the "big four" (including the KPS 8 and others...
The MGPM has umatched feel for me. It needs a bit of lead to enlarge the sweet zone, which is already big. Feedback to the hand is amazing. Good access to spin for a dense pattern stick. I just prefer the overall impact of the KPS, but this is a fantastic frame. I also love the sound of hitting with this one-- kind of a "whoooosh" effect that is unique and satisfying.
The RDS 001 is stable, solid and predictable everywhere on the court, with excellent feel and access to spin. I don't like the cosmetics or head shape, and still the RDS is right up there with the others once it is leaded up in the handle and head. Doesn't serve like the KPS (what does?), K90 or MGPM, and I find the paint job too distracting. The cushioned feel at contact is sweet and the Yonex QC is second to none. A GREAT frame, too.
The K90 is everything that CC and Kai-El have described. I love the access to spin, the feedback and the heaviness of shot that it provides. Until I hit with the KPS, I was going to stick with the K90s, since I have 6 of them. Now I'm not so sure. Until yesterday, I thought that a leaded K90 played like a KPS. Not so. The KPS must have a different layup, so it's not just the weight and balance.
Along with the KPS 88, I believe that these are the finest frames being made now, including MP frames. I've tried many MPs including the KBT MP, Rebel, Exo 93, PB10, MGPP, RDX 500 MP, MGPM+ etc... and still prefer heavy mids. Bessides, 90s often look about as big as 95s when held up close, so I don't agree with the idea that 95s are more "realistic," even though that makes sense to many. It simply doesn't translate on the court as far as I'm concerned.
Some other contenders
The AG 100 is too light and too much of a toy for me, even with lead. Even with plenty of lead. Wanted to like it and maybe with an ounce or more of lead it would be fine. Why bother?
The KBT is a toy. Too stiff and too harsh. Lead makes no difference. WAY overshadowed by the MGPM in my view.
KBT Mid Plus is pretty nice once leaded up. But not as nice as other 18x20 frames and it's not too different from a MGPM or FXP MP with the dense pattern and oval head shape. I'd opt for an FXP MP any day. Excellent frame, that one.
Diablo Mid is too tinny and harsh on off center hits, and a bit too stiff feeling even though it is rated as less stiff than the K90. Must be how and where it is stiff. I really distrust the RDC ratings and find that it is WHERE frames are stiff that matters most. For example, the Volkl PB 10 is a fine frame that is stiff in the hoop, and this makes it very uncomfortable and harsh for me, even with soft string.
RDX 500 mid is wonderful, and almost in the same league as the "big four" I've mentioned. Unmatched feel, but just too soft. How does anyone end points with this stick? Great looking, good in the hand, big and generous sweet zone and still not stable enough or solid enough for me. Wish it were. And it still has that damn Yonex shape. Love it or leave it. I'll leave it for others. The RDS 001 is more satisfying for the modern game, IMO.
Rebel and Exo 3-- no thanks. Neither is in the same league as the others. POG mid is better but too stiff and harsh off center. If only the mid played like the OS.... that might be the best frame ever. Maybe the unubtainium four stripe? Nah....
Head iPrestige is said to be amazing and I trust Drak and others on this, but sadly I've never had the chance to try it out. My loss.
Head LMP mid is a fine, flexible frame. Nicely made with good heft. Almost impossible for me to generate topspin for some reason. Also still a bit tinny without lead, and too heavy feeling with it, even though static weight is lower than the K90 (probably because it's less HL) and others. Not for me, ultimately. Damn-- I have SEVEN of these, five of which are new.
Gamma G325 and Donnay Pro 1 MP are both fine sticks. Both are too soft and neither has the plow throught I want, even with lead. Great MP frames, still, and I've heard that the G325 is made for Gamma by Wilson. Kind of reminds me of the PS 95, but better.
N95 16x18 and 18x20 are both great and among my favorites, but I don't like the 22mm width and they feel a bit "clunky." I just prefer thinner beams.
K95 (both patterns) is simply too stiff and tinny for me.
PS 6.1 classic is a great frame but also too stiff. The 95 family 16x18s have always been an enigma for me, like the 6.0 95. I've wanted to like them. The 6.1 family frames with open patterns require exaggerated spin production or reduced bat speed to keep the ball in the court given my strokes. Feel is excellent for stiff frames, and the N95 open pattern is my favorite of the bunch.
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All in all the KPS is as good as it gets. I'm really happy that I decided to buy one. Now to get auctions up on line to sell off the others.
Harry
Hi, may I join?
Just got my K90, used, which came with Cyberflash 17/ Cybersomething else 16. The strings are pretty shot, so I've only just hit around a little so far, but with this setup the frame comes in at:
360g.
31.6 cm
332 swingweight
I'm pretty pleased I got one close to spec., and on the lower end, swingweight wise. I plan to string it up with some 18 guage string, which should bring it to:
356g.
31.5cm
325 swingweight
I'd like to replace the leather grip with a synthetic. Mine is 4 1/4", but is still a little too big. So no overgrip for me. I'm hoping a synthetic grip will make it a bit smaller and more tacky.
To preserve the weight and balance, however, I'm going to have to replace about 9 grams (difference between leather and replacement grips) with lead. I'd rather avoid adding lead to the grip itself and am thinking of putting 4.5 grams in the butt and 4.5 grams around the grip collar cuff.
On paper this should result in identical weight and balance, but I wonder, since the weight will be distributed slightly differently, if it will play exactly the same. Any thoughts or experiences?
Just got my K90, used, which came with Cyberflash 17/ Cybersomething else 16. The strings are pretty shot, so I've only just hit around a little so far, but with this setup the frame comes in at:
360g.
31.6 cm
332 swingweight
I'm pretty pleased I got one close to spec., and on the lower end, swingweight wise. I plan to string it up with some 18 guage string, which should bring it to:
356g.
31.5cm
325 swingweight
I'd like to replace the leather grip with a synthetic. Mine is 4 1/4", but is still a little too big. So no overgrip for me. I'm hoping a synthetic grip will make it a bit smaller and more tacky.
To preserve the weight and balance, however, I'm going to have to replace about 9 grams (difference between leather and replacement grips) with lead. I'd rather avoid adding lead to the grip itself and am thinking of putting 4.5 grams in the butt and 4.5 grams around the grip collar cuff.
On paper this should result in identical weight and balance, but I wonder, since the weight will be distributed slightly differently, if it will play exactly the same. Any thoughts or experiences?
m1stuhxsp4rk5
Professional
i cut off the head guard on my k90 omg what a difference. my serves have so much more spin. ill have to keep hitting to see how other shots are though. will let you know
sunnyIce
Semi-Pro
hi...interesting.
iv wondered how this impacts weight and SW. do you know what the diff has been before and after. also can you tell me how you cut it off.
HeadPrestige
Professional
Just cut it off with an exacto knife of some sort... trim the bumper off the top.
As far as lowering SW, it definitely will since you are removing weight from the 12 oclock position.
Assuming the K90 and KPS 88 have similar headguards: A poster in another thread, Drakulie I think, trimmed the headguard off a KPS 88 and said the removed bits amounted to 5g.
Using the tools at racquettech.com, we find that removing 5g. from 12 o'clock (about 25.25" from the butt) will reduce the swingweight by about 14 :shock:and the balance by 5mm (about 2 pts.).
To alter swingweight it's easier to use a lighter string (a full 17g poly job may weigh 17grams, while a 17g multi like X-1 biphase weighs 13grams. That four gram difference represents a change of 7 swingweight 'points'.
But then again, removing the bumper might result in a swingweight of around 316 for the K90. You could then add heavier strings and layers of headtape to bring the swingweight back up to your ideal.
sunnyIce
Semi-Pro
ideal k90
i'm always looking to find a k90 arnd my 'newly' preferred SW of 325. with all modification included. cant imagine theres a scenario that will make it happen.
ideally, i would like to lay my hands on a k90 that had:
Weight: 350-355g
Bal: 8 HL
SW ~325
Grip: 3/8
Leather+OG
wishful thinking, no?
i'm always looking to find a k90 arnd my 'newly' preferred SW of 325. with all modification included. cant imagine theres a scenario that will make it happen.
ideally, i would like to lay my hands on a k90 that had:
Weight: 350-355g
Bal: 8 HL
SW ~325
Grip: 3/8
Leather+OG
wishful thinking, no?
harryz
Professional
Here's an idea or two for reducing weight and SW
Trim the bumper guard. Remove the leather grip, which probably weighs 25-30g. Replace it with a couple of overwraps. The frame will be about 1/2 or 3/4 of an ounce lighter overall and less HL, and SW will go down. (A way to avoid having to buy an Asian K90 if you already have US K90s, and the Asian K90 is also very HL...) Also, overwraps alone will accentuate feel of the bevels, which is great for finding "true" grips, but it can also be hard on the hand(s) if you don't have callouses. I like a more evenly balanced frame so I've been adding lead at 12 o'clock on mine, but I'm going to try this today since I'm playing a couple of hours tonight. I'm not going to trim the bumper guard on mine--- yet. I may try that on my KPS though.
Trim the bumper guard. Remove the leather grip, which probably weighs 25-30g. Replace it with a couple of overwraps. The frame will be about 1/2 or 3/4 of an ounce lighter overall and less HL, and SW will go down. (A way to avoid having to buy an Asian K90 if you already have US K90s, and the Asian K90 is also very HL...) Also, overwraps alone will accentuate feel of the bevels, which is great for finding "true" grips, but it can also be hard on the hand(s) if you don't have callouses. I like a more evenly balanced frame so I've been adding lead at 12 o'clock on mine, but I'm going to try this today since I'm playing a couple of hours tonight. I'm not going to trim the bumper guard on mine--- yet. I may try that on my KPS though.
sunnyIce
Semi-Pro
no i dont have K90s. have an eye out for them. but avoiding them bcoz of the weight problems..mainly SW. I dont think i'll ever go for a AK90. i am playing with the ag100 and more than happy with it. the above mods are basically my ag100 specs. would love to replicate it, but like you say...i have to let go of the leather :-(
I don't think so, but you'll have to get lucky. See my first post in this thread above. Mine has a 17 gram stringjob and swings at 332. With an x-1 biphase 17 job, or similar, it will swing at 325.
However, it will be tough to find a frame that will be under 355g. with leather AND overgrip. Maybe if you switch out the Wilson for one of TW's 1.3mm thick leather grips you could do it. But at that point, if you've got your target swingweight, the difference between 355 and 359 grams static weight will be insignificant.
The limiting factor to these types of mods is keeping weight distributed in the head and handle. Some posters that are familiar with the Pro Staff lineage have said the the K90 differs from it's predecessor, the Tour90, in that the K90 has less weight in the throat and more in the handle and head. So the K90 is more polarized. This weight distribution is suspected to be the reason why many find the K90 to 'swing lighter' than its actual swingweight, and one of the reasons why the K90 is liked by so many who disliked the N90.
For this reason, I was reluctant to trim the bumber, for one of the differences between the N90 and the K90 is that that K90 has 2-3 grams of weight added at 12 and 5 grams or so somewhere in the handle, probably in the butt. (This according to the poster Equijet, who appears to be some sort of insider - he said the K90 is Roger's real racquet, the one he's been using since 2003, but with his preferred lead tape mods (under the bumper and under the pallet) incorporated into the layup)
Removing the bumber essentially undoes what Wilson did to create the K90. That's why I think it's better to remove weight from the head and reduce swingweight by using lighter strings (if you don't need super durability).
Removing weight from the stringbed reduces swingweight, but not (appreciably) twistweight and only minimally changes the weight distribution of the frame, as you are removing weight from approximately 21", rather than from 12 o'clock.
There were a couple of very informative K90 modification/swingweight concern threads started by Pro_Tour_630 a while back. Check 'em out.
sunnyIce
Semi-Pro
good comments
did you get there? have you checked?
did you get there? have you checked?
agree but its hard to find. although i still want to stay at 355 or less.
aint that the truth..
confused, how does this make it swing lighter. maybe swing more flexier? i would think a polarized setup does not change SW. the bigger issues i have had with polarizing is with balance. remove from 12 then it becomes too HL.
not really this might actually be a good idea. as long as you are happy with the HL balance. or you can add some lead to 3/9 or 6 to reduce balance, without affecting SW.
aimr75
Hall of Fame
ive done this, theres really no difference
aimr75
Hall of Fame
yes, i weighed the racquet before and after, and there was no difference.. i had a TW grip to use.. these dont lose colour like the Wilson grips.. so figured if i ever decided to sell, i can put the wilson one back on and would look new
Good to know. Thanks. Was the grip any smaller with the TW grip on?
Not yet, I'm still evaluating at 332. I might not need to go down; we'll see. I could go even lower with string choice: 16g Head Fibergel weighs 10g per job, which would bring me to 320 SW.
Adding weight at 3 and 9 has the same proportional effect on swingweight and balance as using lighter or heavier strings.
Good question. Many posters think the K90 swings lighter than N90 and Tour 90, despite the K90 being the heavier and having the highest swingweight of the three. I took special note of Craig A. Clark's comments about the K90 compared to Tour 90 and Volkl DNX 10 mid - both have lower swingweights than K90 but Craig said both also have more weight in the throat, making them swing slower, especially on the forehand, and be more sluggish at net. Not gospel, but interesting.
Important to note that even if K90 is polarized compared to those frames, it is still depolarized compared to many, many others.
I guess we're really talking weight distribution here, which is subtle and poorly understood by those outside the industry (like me).
The way I look at it is that the K90 has been much better received by players and reviewers than N90 or Tour 90, despite being very little different from those racquets in terms of specs. So any differences in weight distribution that may have resulted in this improved performance are subtle. Therefore, any mods I do need to be subtle as well, or I may as well pick up an N90 or Tour90. Your POV may be different.
I'm no expert BTW, just trying to find the best racquet for me. I have learned quite a bit from Travlerajm, who doesn't post much anymore. But his old posts were very knowledgeable and informative, even if his conclusions appeared to sometimes spin-off into unfounded speculation. Here's some of his riffs on polarization:
Pithy Travlerajm quotes:
“Adding weight to the handle increases the swingspeed on groundstrokes.
This is because your swingspeed on groundstrokes is not simply an inverse relationship between acceleration and swingweight. Rather, your racquetspeed on groundstrokes is governed primarily by the equation for the frequency of a physical pendulum. If you add more mass near the pivot point of a pendulum, it swings faster!
Also, adding mass to the butt of the handle makes it easier to lift your racquethead into position on volleys, due to the counterbalancing effect.”
“If your racquet has substantial flex, you can control the amount that the racquet flexes at impact (the dynamic flex) by choosing where you add weight.
Your racquet has two nodes for the primary vibration mode. One node is in the middle of the handle, and the other node is a few inches from the tip. The distance between these two nodes determines the amplitude of the vibration. And the amplitude of vibration determines how much your racquet flexes at impact.
If you place lead tape on the butt, it will move the handle node closer to the butt. This will make the distance between the nodes longer. This increases the amplitude of vibration, making your frame feel softer and more flexible. It will also make it feel more spin-friendly.
On the other hand, you can stiffen the feel of you racquet by placing weight at the top of the handle. Weight here will move the handle node closer to the tip, thereby shortening the distance between the nodes, and reducing the amplitude of vibration. The frame will feel stiffer at impact, and less spin-friendly, but with more power.”
“As I chimed in in the Bogie thread, here are a few rules of thumb for predicting relative performance of frames:
If two frames have the same weight and balance, but different swingweights, then the more polarized one (i.e., the one with higher swingweight) will be more powerful.
If two frames have the same weight and swingweight, but different balance, then the more polarized one (i.e., the one with more HL balance) will be less powerful, more spin-friendly, and more maneuverable at net.
Also, any weight near the middle of the racquet (lower hoop or throat) will stiffen the way a flexible frame plays, reducing spin-friendliness."
aimr75
Hall of Fame
no, felt the same..
harryz
Professional
About last night
I took the leather grip off of one of my frames and replaced it with two Wilson overwraps. Also removed the 4" strips of lead at 12 o'clock (about 2g). The frame without leather and lead swung lighter than the weighted stick, but not that much. And the feel was definitely better for me with the leaded and polarized stick. Without the leather grip, the balance was maybe 2-3 points HL at most, and the lead at 12 and the leather grip seems to polarize the frame and to soften it as Travlerjam indicates. Time to put the grip and lead back on mine.
I took the leather grip off of one of my frames and replaced it with two Wilson overwraps. Also removed the 4" strips of lead at 12 o'clock (about 2g). The frame without leather and lead swung lighter than the weighted stick, but not that much. And the feel was definitely better for me with the leaded and polarized stick. Without the leather grip, the balance was maybe 2-3 points HL at most, and the lead at 12 and the leather grip seems to polarize the frame and to soften it as Travlerjam indicates. Time to put the grip and lead back on mine.
Hey Sunny,
So if you aren't too concerned with preserving the weight distribution/polarization of the K90 you could do this to achieve the specs you're looking for:
1) Find a K90 in the middle of the weight range (around 340-345g.) - I asked the fellow who sold me mine to weigh it prior to sale.
2) Remove bumper (5 grams) - you'll end up with SW between 314 and 322 (with 15g stringjob).
3) Remove and discard butt cap trap door; it weighs about 4 grams and will counterbalance the removal of the bumper.
4) Add your overgrip and fine tune swingweight and balance with head tape and/or lead tape
You'll end up with with a stick about...
355 grams strung (with 16g syngut)
8 points HL
325 swingweight
and a hole in the buttcap which could be cleverly filled or covered
So if you aren't too concerned with preserving the weight distribution/polarization of the K90 you could do this to achieve the specs you're looking for:
1) Find a K90 in the middle of the weight range (around 340-345g.) - I asked the fellow who sold me mine to weigh it prior to sale.
2) Remove bumper (5 grams) - you'll end up with SW between 314 and 322 (with 15g stringjob).
3) Remove and discard butt cap trap door; it weighs about 4 grams and will counterbalance the removal of the bumper.
4) Add your overgrip and fine tune swingweight and balance with head tape and/or lead tape
You'll end up with with a stick about...
355 grams strung (with 16g syngut)
8 points HL
325 swingweight
and a hole in the buttcap which could be cleverly filled or covered
sunnyIce
Semi-Pro
hey corners...
thanks really for all the info and tidbits. may be well worth trying. it struck me that im trying to get to 8 HL. mainly because most sticks start losing stability if we go any more HL. how abt the k90. does it retain its excellent feel and stability if i went 10-11 HL. if so, then getting rid of the bumper might be a great idea. other things i could do is to swap leather on, and maybe 3g of lead at 3-9. may just work.
thanks really for all the info and tidbits. may be well worth trying. it struck me that im trying to get to 8 HL. mainly because most sticks start losing stability if we go any more HL. how abt the k90. does it retain its excellent feel and stability if i went 10-11 HL. if so, then getting rid of the bumper might be a great idea. other things i could do is to swap leather on, and maybe 3g of lead at 3-9. may just work.
^Mine is at 8 points HL now and feels great. SW of 332 may be ok after all - like you, I had 325 in mind when I bought the K90. When I switch to lighter strings that should bring my balance to 9-10 points HL - I don't expect much of a change.
For you, if you remove bumper you'll be 10-11 points HL, if you then remove trap door you'll be back to 8. So you'll be able to easily compare 355g., 10-11 HL vs. 360g., 8 HL simply by popping out/in the trap door.
For you, if you remove bumper you'll be 10-11 points HL, if you then remove trap door you'll be back to 8. So you'll be able to easily compare 355g., 10-11 HL vs. 360g., 8 HL simply by popping out/in the trap door.
sunnyIce
Semi-Pro
is stability compromised with these changes. does the racq change its "attributes" with these mods.
I don't know. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the general consensus seems to be that one of, if not the only significant, differences between the N90 and K90 is that the K90 appears to have Roger's preferred lead setup incorporated into the K90. And that would be a couple grams at 12 o'clock and a couple grams in the butt, or somewhere in the handle. This would make the frame somewhat more polarized - and offer a little more power and spin from the baseline.
Wilson also may have removed weight from the throat, but who knows. Some have said that the K90 swings easier than the Tour 90, despite it's significantly higher SW, and attributed this to the lighter throat of the K90.
So, by trimming the bumper and removing the trap door, you would be essentially removing the mods that Wilson/Federer incorporated into the K90. Stability would still be pretty good - reducing swingweight will reduce hittingweight and therefore plowthrough, but one thing that won't change much is twistweight, as you'll be removing a small amount of bumber relatively close to the central axis.
However, in terms of weight distribution, my hunch is that this will change the racquet's 'attributes'.
This is why I've chosen to focus on using lighter strings to reduce swingweight - I figure that removing some weight from the center of the stringbed will have little effect on the frame's weight distribution. I can then counterbalance this by replacing the leather grip with a lighter synthetic and adding a little lead to the handle to maintain the original balance.
But, I'm liking the frame at SW 332, so I don't know if I'll have to do that or not.
Drewwonu
Semi-Pro
Sign me up!!! I just got my K90 yesterday and i love how it feels! This is the best racquet ever. It feels extremely solid and not plasticy like those Babolats. Also, it's not as heavy as i thought it would be.
Does anyone here not use a dampener?
Also, mine is a first run that says "More Control".
Does anyone here not use a dampener?
Also, mine is a first run that says "More Control".
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Well I am late to the party, but I demod this stick last weekend and have played 6 hours with it. After getting back into the game from being a 5.5 Jr. in the 90's, and trying to embrace that I am supposed to like light racquets with thicker beams tamed with poly, I grabbed the K90 demo on a whim.
The demo is strung with TF Multifeel at 58#, and I was instantly blown away. I did not want to put the thing down. It's the type of heft that I was looking for, and the control is amazing.
This racquet makes your game better. It keeps you from your bad habits. When I made a lazy swing or used bad form, I payed the price. But if you stick to your form, the k90 rewards you. The demo was a 4 1/2 (im a 3/8), and the leather grip was falling off from multiple demos. This caused me to frame some shots from twisting, but I didn't mind. A 2 HBH is actually easier for me then with a midplus stick.
My impressions are that you don't need poly (thank god) with the k90. If you stick with it, this racquet will make you a better player. You can play with any style and still use this racquet. You can swing away, but it keeps you from arming it and breaking down your technique.
My questions are if any of you have used a Multifilament and synthetic gut hybrid? I am going to start with that and see how it goes. I know I could use all Multifeel and be completely fine, but I want to see if I can get a little more durability with some Gosen Micro SG in the crosses.
The demo is strung with TF Multifeel at 58#, and I was instantly blown away. I did not want to put the thing down. It's the type of heft that I was looking for, and the control is amazing.
This racquet makes your game better. It keeps you from your bad habits. When I made a lazy swing or used bad form, I payed the price. But if you stick to your form, the k90 rewards you. The demo was a 4 1/2 (im a 3/8), and the leather grip was falling off from multiple demos. This caused me to frame some shots from twisting, but I didn't mind. A 2 HBH is actually easier for me then with a midplus stick.
My impressions are that you don't need poly (thank god) with the k90. If you stick with it, this racquet will make you a better player. You can play with any style and still use this racquet. You can swing away, but it keeps you from arming it and breaking down your technique.
My questions are if any of you have used a Multifilament and synthetic gut hybrid? I am going to start with that and see how it goes. I know I could use all Multifeel and be completely fine, but I want to see if I can get a little more durability with some Gosen Micro SG in the crosses.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Which multi was it? I think I can get more durability with the Gosen hybrid.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yeah. Well, I snapped Polys pretty fast. I use a western grip, so either way I will go through strings kind of fast. What I love about the K90 is that it is classic and heavier, so you don't need the polys to control it as much as say my Tfight V02 Max.
movdqa
Talk Tennis Guru
Getting racquets strung in a timely manner has been more difficult for me lately - my main stringer was out recovering from rotator cuff surgery and one of the shops that I used to use went out of business. So it makes life easier if I don't have to restring as often. I find that 16 gauge poly will last me quite some time and I now have enough racquets to partially negate the amount of time it takes to get one restrung.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Congrats to Fed!
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Dgpsx7
Professional
I finally got a K90 and I played with it for the first time Saturday. I thought I would have trouble wit hit because it has a smaller headsize than any racket I have ever played with but I was totally wrong. I had so much fun playing with this because it felt really natural and I could put the ball wherever I wanted. It is also super easy on my arm, I don't know if it is because of the super soft strings on it but I felt no shock when hitting the ball and it gave me such an easy time compared to my other rackets.
Count me in!
Count me in!
asianxtreme
New User
^^^Same! I've had mine almost a month now!
Will buy 1-2 more soon. And no customization for me--not yet at least. This racket is going great with my bag too
Will buy 1-2 more soon. And no customization for me--not yet at least. This racket is going great with my bag too
tennisnut16
Rookie
I demoed this racquet and it was amazing, I'm relaly considering switching. HOWEVER, besides all the plusses, my shoulder was killing me the next day and I was having trouble keeping my swing the same after about an hour of play. Is there anything that I can do so I can play with this amazing stick?
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yes, play 12-15 hours a week with it.
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