King Richard may be the greatest tennis movie ever made

Aabye5

Hall of Fame
Excluding it because it’s not part of the story they want to tell I get, but your initial reasoning made no sense. Excluding it cause it’s not PC? I doubt they would’ve excluded the insult had it been directed the other direction.

To harp on the shoulder bump like it excuses the bigotry is nonsense as well. Shoulder bumps do happen, they should never result in that kind of insult.

This is a movie about a person, I think we’re free, even right, to point out that person is not the saint the movie mostly sells them as.
You shouldn't be excusing a shoulder bump for any reason, either. Shoulder bumps only happen when somebody is trying to hit someone. I've played enough tennis to know that outside of the handshake, no one should be touching their opponent. It's that simple. And that's why Spirlea was fined, because the officials knew that, too.

As far as his comment, it's not PC, and they'll leave it out because it doesn't portray him in a flattering light. On that we agree.
 

topher

Hall of Fame
You shouldn't be excusing a shoulder bump for any reason, either. Shoulder bumps only happen when somebody is trying to hit someone. I've played enough tennis to know that outside of the handshake, no one should be touching their opponent. It's that simple. And that's why Spirlea was fined, because the officials knew that, too.

As far as his comment, it's not PC, and they'll leave it out because it doesn't portray him in a flattering light. On that we agree.
“Not PC” is such a spin way to put his comment. It was racist and he stood by it when given the opportunity to apologize.

I wonder if we would let anyone else get away with that if the situation were reversed, much less glorify them in a movie. I guess it’s not PC to point that out.
 

Aabye5

Hall of Fame
“Not PC” is such a spin way to put his comment. It was racist and he stood by it when given the opportunity to apologize.

I wonder if we would let anyone else get away with that if the situation were reversed, much less glorify them in a movie. I guess it’s not PC to point that out.
I agree, it's racist. And he shouldn't have said it. And I think it would be great if they explored that in the movie, too.

But, actually, he did apologize. An apology doesn't make up for the statement, but your memory is selective, at best.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
As I've told you jokers the best sports movies have little to do with the depicted sport itself. In fact sometimes the sport isn't depicted at all:


Also y'all are giving Richard too much credit. For starters there was no reason to move his middle-class family to Compton except to satisfy his twisted sense of what it means to overcome adversity, and Serena and Venus' half-sister Yetunde Price would be alive today if not for their daddy's reckless folly. Not to mention his grossly irresponsible abandonment of his first family which he still doesn't seem to have atoned for:


And of course there's the head-scratching focus on the father when it is his daughters who have done the lion's share of work. In other words this is almost certainly a standard Hollywood biopic. Hopefully it doesn't shortchange the women's own contributions to their success, but I'm not holding my breath.

Time for some housekeeping:



MP was something of a turning point in Woody's career. He'll never be mistaken for a Huston, Téchiné or another first-rate novelistic filmmaker, but his characters no longer felt like cardboard figures whose sole raison d'etre is to drive the story.



Strangers is hardly overlooked these days. Hitch's most underrated is probably The Trouble with Harry (1955) or Family Plot (1976, his last).




The movie's one saving grace is its sympathetic portrayal of Larry's complicated relationship with his star wife which turns the usual gender dynamics upside down. I doubt the latest Will Smith vehicle offers anything half as good, but....



I'll still go see it eventually. Just hope it'll meet my low expectations at least.



Didn't know about this. Thx for the heads-up.
Watch it before opining with a page long post!
 

topher

Hall of Fame
I agree, it's racist. And he shouldn't have said it. And I think it would be great if they explored that in the movie, too.

But, actually, he did apologize. An apology doesn't make up for the statement, but your memory is selective, at best.
Oh I see he apologized, my bad. I saw the below and assumed he didn’t. If he apologized I’m not sure I see a need to include it in the movie, there’s no way to recreate that incident without bias anyway.


I do find this quote in the apology quite funny:

”If I had to do it over,'' he said, ``I wouldn't put them into tennis.''
 

Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
But she took one at 3-1 with Venus about to serve ?
Interesting that it isn't mentioned here, a fairly detailed write-up: https://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/03/sports/tennis-a-set-up-williams-gets-stung-by-reality.html
or here https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...in-loss/e0a86128-212d-4d50-9fd2-1414bceb29b8/

I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I have noticed that players often get details wrong about their matches years later wrong. Like Mac's recollection of the 84 RG final in his book - clearly no fact checking was done. I followed tennis about as closely as anyone could in 1994, and I would bet Venus-Sanchez wasn't televised anywhere, even locally. I sure as hell would have watched if possible, it was a big deal obviously. Players rarely took bathroom breaks back then, so I'm skeptical that Sanchez took as long as 10 minutes. It would have been widely reported on if she did since that sort of thing was so outside of the norm back then(unlike today). Maybe the story has become like the Mandela effect(in terms of how long the break was). The screenwriter has said he only relied on interviews, he didn't actually watch the match.

Outside of the majors and masters, early round TV coverage of any event held in the US in the simply didn't happen those days. I attended many a non masters/non major in those days(New Haven/Philadelphia) and there was often no TV coverage locally until the semis. So if you lived in that city, going to the matches were often only way to see them.
 
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Aabye5

Hall of Fame
But she took one at 3-1 with Venus about to serve ?
Eh, the break itself is bad enough. But with his father texting and the fact that he can take his cell phone with him, Tsitsipas looks worse.

He's only hurting himself with these tactics. Who would have guessed in January that he would beat out Nole and Zed for most jeered player on the tour in New York? And not (entirely) due to his social media posts.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
Just watched this and it was actually really good, and well made. The actors did a great job across the board honestly, and I liked how they had Richard in the film talking about the "open stance" on the groundstrokes because that wasn't a popular stance in the game before the Williams sisters. It's actually a really important aspect of their success. Today, you see that a lot more in the game.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Just watched this and it was actually really good, and well made. The actors did a great job across the board honestly, and I liked how they had Richard in the film talking about the "open stance" on the groundstrokes because that wasn't a popular stance in the game before the Williams sisters. It's actually a really important aspect of their success. Today, you see that a lot more in the game.
Hope you watched with snax 8-B
 

jon70

Semi-Pro
This is a movie about a person, I think we’re free, even right, to point out that person is not the saint the movie mostly sells them as.
Exactly. The trailer looks to be a sugarcoat job, when it's obvious he's human like the rest of us.
 

R. Schweikart

Professional
Amazing movie! So grateful !
Never again will this much be invested into a tennis movie,

King Richard is a masterpiece. The full insane story has finally been told. There is almost zero Hollywood. 99% facts. Truth is stranger than fiction. A true gift for the tennis nerd.
Anyone who skips this movie because of some childish grudge shant dare call themselves a real tennis fan.
Did they address how Richard beat up his wife Oracene repeatedly?
And what about Richard inventing those "racial slurs" in Indian Wells in 2001, a ploy that even surprised his gullible daughters back then?
 

FiddlerDog

Professional
Did they address how Richard beat up his wife Oracene repeatedly?
And what about Richard inventing those "racial slurs" in Indian Wells in 2001, a ploy that even surprised his gullible daughters back then?
So this movie also insults Steffi (who was #1 at that point)?
I think I will skip such a movie...
Fake tennis fan.
As stated earlier, anyone who skips this movie because of some childish grudge shant dare call themselves a real tennis fan.
 

atatu

Legend
Honestly when you think about how hard it is to produce two Grand Slam singles winners in one family it's a pretty incredible story, even Jimmy Evert who was a well established teaching pro and had the best facilities available to him was only able produce one, the rest of his kids were great players but not on Chris's level. There have been a lot of siblings on both the ATP and WTA tours but none who accomplished as much as the Williams sisters, it's really amazing.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Honestly when you think about how hard it is to produce two Grand Slam singles winners in one family it's a pretty incredible story, even Jimmy Evert who was a well established teaching pro and had the best facilities available to him was only able produce one, the rest of his kids were great players but not on Chris's level. There have been a lot of siblings on both the ATP and WTA tours but none who accomplished as much as the Williams sisters, it's really amazing.
Bro, I'd count doubles winners too.

Bryans, Murrays, Safins, all stellar.

The Williams' are undoubtedly the best though, and Serena may well be the greatest female athlete of all time.

J
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Honestly when you think about how hard it is to produce two Grand Slam singles winners in one family it's a pretty incredible story, even Jimmy Evert who was a well established teaching pro and had the best facilities available to him was only able produce one, the rest of his kids were great players but not on Chris's level. There have been a lot of siblings on both the ATP and WTA tours but none who accomplished as much as the Williams sisters, it's really amazing.
Greatest black American story since the Jacksons. Black parents and a dream :D
 

N01E

Hall of Fame
Haven't watched it yet, but seems like your typical oscar-bait. 7 days in hell would probably take the title for me right now, but sport related movies are pretty bland most of the time. Basketball fans got lucky with Uncut Gems.
 

BadPusher

New User
I don't even like movies, but I watched it yesterday with my wife and daughter. We all liked it. It's basically hagiography though. Makes Mr. Williams look like a saint. In actuality, he had five kids with his first wife and walked out one day when the kids were still young and never came back, abandoned them all. Sure, he did a great job raising two champions, but of course it would never happen unless they were both phenomenal athletes to begin with, and second just because you raise two champions doesn't make you a good, nice person.

$100 says he was never beat up by some white adults when he was a kid for accidentally touching some white guy's hand when giving him some money. Typical Hollywood lies.

$200 says Child Protection Services never showed up at their house because he was out practicing tennis with his girls in the rain. I'm pretty sure that CPS has a lot worse things to worry about in Compton. A lot of kids in that city never even see their dad and would kill to play tennis with him in the rain. I bet any CPS people watching this movie will get a chuckle out of that scene.
 

atatu

Legend
I don't even like movies, but I watched it yesterday with my wife and daughter. We all liked it. It's basically hagiography though. Makes Mr. Williams look like a saint. In actuality, he had five kids with his first wife and walked out one day when the kids were still young and never came back, abandoned them all. Sure, he did a great job raising two champions, but of course it would never happen unless they were both phenomenal athletes to begin with, and second just because you raise two champions doesn't make you a good, nice person.

$100 says he was never beat up by some white adults when he was a kid for accidentally touching some white guy's hand when giving him some money. Typical Hollywood lies.

$200 says Child Protection Services never showed up at their house because he was out practicing tennis with his girls in the rain. I'm pretty sure that CPS has a lot worse things to worry about in Compton. A lot of kids in that city never even see their dad and would kill to play tennis with him in the rain. I bet any CPS people watching this movie will get a chuckle out of that scene.
I don't think the point of the movie was that he is a "good, nice person" is that what you took from it ? With regard to what happened to him when he was younger, I think you don't know much about what it was like to be a minority in the United States in the 30's or 40's. My Grandfather, who was the captain of his high school baseball team and the school valedictorian got beat up by 4 middle aged white guys just for looking Japanese, of course the police did nothing they probably thought "typical lies" also.
 

BadPusher

New User
I don't think the point of the movie was that he is a "good, nice person" is that what you took from it ? With regard to what happened to him when he was younger, I think you don't know much about what it was like to be a minority in the United States in the 30's or 40's. My Grandfather, who was the captain of his high school baseball team and the school valedictorian got beat up by 4 middle aged white guys just for looking Japanese, of course the police did nothing they probably thought "typical lies" also.
Not sure, you might have heard, there was a war with Japan a while back, oh yeah, right around the 30s and 40s that you mentioned. People get a little touchy when another country does a sneak attack and kills thousands of their countrymen. Try going to Japan as a Korean or African and see how well you get on, even today. Or try going to Africa as an Indian or Chinese. My point being that racism exists in every culture. Yes, including white culture, but no worse than any other culture, and probably actually better. That's why I'm willing to bet $100 that there is no proof that Richard Williams got beat up by some white adults for touching somebody's hand accidentally in the 1950s.

Not that America was blameless during World Wars I and II. Not by any means. The whole thing would have turned out better, and probably there wouldn't have been a World War II, if the US had just minded its own business and let the European countries slug things out in World War I to the bitter end. There were no nazis involved in World War I, no real bad guys or good guys. They were all bad guys. But this is history. Those who don't study it are doomed to repeat it, or at least have rhyming verses.
 

FiddlerDog

Professional
I don't even like movies, but I watched it yesterday with my wife and daughter. We all liked it. It's basically hagiography though. Makes Mr. Williams look like a saint. In actuality, he had five kids with his first wife and walked out one day when the kids were still young and never came back, abandoned them all. Sure, he did a great job raising two champions, but of course it would never happen unless they were both phenomenal athletes to begin with, and second just because you raise two champions doesn't make you a good, nice person.

$100 says he was never beat up by some white adults when he was a kid for accidentally touching some white guy's hand when giving him some money. Typical Hollywood lies.

$200 says Child Protection Services never showed up at their house because he was out practicing tennis with his girls in the rain. I'm pretty sure that CPS has a lot worse things to worry about in Compton. A lot of kids in that city never even see their dad and would kill to play tennis with him in the rain. I bet any CPS people watching this movie will get a chuckle out of that scene.
Amazing how some people can miss the entire point of things.
 

FiddlerDog

Professional
I don't think the point of the movie was that he is a "good, nice person" is that what you took from it ?
Exactly. Who ever said ANYTHING about promoting him as a good kind person ?!!!!!?
Its about some jerk that created 2 tennis grand slam champions. A must see
 

Brian11785

Hall of Fame
Went to see it this morning (my first movie in the theater since 2019):

I was really impressed. First of all, the attention to detail tennis-wise (gear, clothing, point play) was surprisingly good. The acting was good, and I’m not really a Will Smith fan. The actress that played Oracene was awesome. And the Serena actress is an eery dead ringer for the real life Serena.

As far as the story goes, the movie portrays Richard as a complicated and often unlikable guy. Given that it was produced by his daughters, the level of whitewashing was considerably lower than I expected. On more than one occasion, it feels like the movie wants you to either side with someone arguing with him or wants you to empathize with the coaches who are in disbelief of his antics. For sure this is the case late in the movie when he’s arguing with Oracene, in an argument in which she mentions the kids he abandoned. But I got that same sense in the scene immediately preceding that one in which Macci is telling him off for, among other things, not giving Venus the chance to play matches.
 

atatu

Legend
Not sure, you might have heard, there was a war with Japan a while back, oh yeah, right around the 30s and 40s that you mentioned. People get a little touchy when another country does a sneak attack and kills thousands of their countrymen. Try going to Japan as a Korean or African and see how well you get on, even today. Or try going to Africa as an Indian or Chinese. My point being that racism exists in every culture. Yes, including white culture, but no worse than any other culture, and probably actually better. That's why I'm willing to bet $100 that there is no proof that Richard Williams got beat up by some white adults for touching somebody's hand accidentally in the 1950s.

Not that America was blameless during World Wars I and II. Not by any means. The whole thing would have turned out better, and probably there wouldn't have been a World War II, if the US had just minded its own business and let the European countries slug things out in World War I to the bitter end. There were no nazis involved in World War I, no real bad guys or good guys. They were all bad guys. But this is history. Those who don't study it are doomed to repeat it, or at least have rhyming verses.
Seriously are you justifying what happened to my grandfather, who was born in the United States and was about as All-American as you could be ? Your attempts to justify the actions of these guys just proves my point.
 

lim

Semi-Pro
Lol at Vicario pulling a citybus on poor Venus. 9 minutes!!! And meanwhile every sports commentator making it seem like the Greek god was the first offender :-D
 
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