King Richard may be the greatest tennis movie ever made

BadPusher

New User
Seriously are you justifying what happened to my grandfather, who was born in the United States and was about as All-American as you could be ? Your attempts to justify the actions of these guys just proves my point.
I wasn't trying to justify anything, just pointing out that people are racist. White people are racist, brown people are racist, yellow people are racist, black people are racist, etc. Are white people more racist than any other race? Hmmm, it seems like making that argument is racist in itself. Projection perhaps.

If the movie had said that he got called a bad name and slapped for touching a white person's hand accidentally in the 1950s South, it might have been believable. When they say he got beat up by a bunch of adults, it's not even believable, and it just stokes racial tensions even more based on some script writer's daydreams. The guy who wrote that part needed a dramatic story at that point in the movie, and that's what he came up with. He's probably a 30-year old white guy who grew up on one of the coasts, went to an Ivy League university, and has never been anywhere near the American south or Compton for that matter. He dreamed this up to play a part in the movie. Or slightly possible, this was a story that Richard told his daughters a few times. Of course, his veracity is not unimpeachable, as he's the same guy who once told his 8-year old daughter that he was going out to buy her a bicycle, and he never returned to her, her four siblings, or her mother, nor ever talked to them again or sent them money or anything.

But hey, if you want to believe everything that Hollywood feeds you, be my guest. Live in La La Land if it makes you happy.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
I wasn't trying to justify anything, just pointing out that people are racist. White people are racist, brown people are racist, yellow people are racist, black people are racist, etc. Are white people more racist than any other race? Hmmm, it seems like making that argument is racist in itself. Projection perhaps.

If the movie had said that he got called a bad name and slapped for touching a white person's hand accidentally in the 1950s South, it might have been believable. When they say he got beat up by a bunch of adults, it's not even believable, and it just stokes racial tensions even more based on some script writer's daydreams. The guy who wrote that part needed a dramatic story at that point in the movie, and that's what he came up with. He's probably a 30-year old white guy who grew up on one of the coasts, went to an Ivy League university, and has never been anywhere near the American south or Compton for that matter. He dreamed this up to play a part in the movie. Or slightly possible, this was a story that Richard told his daughters a few times. Of course, his veracity is not unimpeachable, as he's the same guy who once told his 8-year old daughter that he was going out to buy her a bicycle, and he never returned to her, her four siblings, or her mother, nor ever talked to them again or sent them money or anything.

But hey, if you want to believe everything that Hollywood feeds you, be my guest. Live in La La Land if it makes you happy.
You either aren't from America and if you are from America, you live in a bubble somewhere. I don't remember anything in the movie about the subject you are talking about, and it's not even important to the story, but why would something like that not be believable? Ever heard of Emmett Till or any of the other horrors that happened in the US south around that time? You could have left that subject alone.
 

Brian11785

Hall of Fame
You either aren't from America and if you are from America, you live in a bubble somewhere. I don't remember anything in the movie about the subject you are talking about, and it's not even important to the story, but why would something like that not be believable? Ever heard of Emmett Till or any of the other horrors that happened in the US south around that time? You could have left that subject alone.
I feel like one could be aware of racism and still be suspicious of Richard Williams and/or Hollywood as unreliable narrators.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
I feel like one could be aware of racism and still believe Richard Williams and/or Hollywood to be an unreliable narrator.
Yea someone could easily come to the conclusion of Hollywood embellishing things in movies for dramatic effect (I myself don't remember this being covered in the movie) but to say something like that being unbelievable in 1950's south is basically sticking your head in the sand.
 

Brian11785

Hall of Fame
Yea someone could easily come to the conclusion of Hollywood embellishing things in movies for dramatic effect (I myself don't remember this being covered in the movie) but to say something like that being unbelievable in 1950's south is basically sticking your head in the sand.
Regardless of it's actually true or not, I agree that it is believable that such a thing could happen at that place and time. (I am actually from Shreveport, La, where Richard is from and where the story he told took place.)
 
Amazing movie! So grateful !
Never again will this much be invested into a tennis movie,

King Richard is a masterpiece. The full insane story has finally been told. There is almost zero Hollywood. 99% facts. Truth is stranger than fiction. A true gift for the tennis nerd.
Anyone who skips this movie because of some childish grudge shant dare call themselves a real tennis fan.
Here are some FACTS that the movie conveniently omitted. Start watching video at 1:05:00 (one hour 5 minute mark)

 

FiddlerDog

Professional
Here are some FACTS that the movie conveniently omitted. Start watching video at 1:05:00 (one hour 5 minute mark)

Already watched it.
Awesome interview with Macci.

Macci is featured prominently in the film, everything is true,
and the family move to Florida to Macci's academy is the major factor in the film.

Macci himself has called the movie a masterpiece.

Anyone who skips this movie shant dare call themselves a real tennis fan.

 
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Macci is featured prominently in the film, everything is true,
and the move to Florida to Macci's academy is the major factor on their success.
Rumors are that Richard Williams really screwed Rick Macci at the end. Apparently Rick Macci received nothing in the lawsuit settlement. Rick admitted as much in the interview.
 

Realfan

New User
Agree that this is a great movie. I went into it knowing that it wouldn’t tell me everything but it did tell me a lot about how the Williams sisters got to where they are and that is 100% due to Richard Williams.

Definitely worth watching if you are a tennis fan.
 

FiddlerDog

Professional
Rumors are that Richard Williams really screwed Rick Macci at the end. Apparently Rick Macci received nothing in the lawsuit settlement. Rick admitted as much in the interview.
He didn't receive nothing. He settled for a lump sum. This is common knowledge, and occurs after the period of the movie, which ends at Venus pro debut.
Do you actually have a point, or do you just try to have a miserable life, no matter what good comes your way?

Anyone who skips this movie because of some childish grudge shant dare call themselves a real tennis fan.
 
He didn't receive nothing. He settled for a lump sum. This is common knowledge, and occurs after the period of the movie, which ends at Venus pro debut.
Do you actually have a point, or do you just try to have a miserable life, no matter what good comes your way?

Anyone who skips this movie because of some childish grudge shant dare call themselves a real tennis fan.
Lol! Pointing out injustice is having a miserable life?

The lump sum Rick Macci had to settle for was very little. Rick admitted as much in the interview.

Richard Williams also walked out on his first wife and five kids.

Fortunately not all of us are ostriches with our heads in the sand.

Try to wake up from your sugar plum fantasy world and see what reality is...

 

FiddlerDog

Professional
Lol! Pointing out injustice is having a miserable life?
Yes. Not seeing the movie because of your personal emotional baggage is a miserable way to live.
So sad that fake tennis fans will skip the best tennis movie of all time because of personal politics.
A sad small minded angry way to live.

Sherlock, everyone know Richard left his other kids.
What's your point? That has nothing to do with Serena and Venus.

To the actual real tennis fans here, go enjoy a great film this weekend !
I love it when a plan comes together !
 

Kralingen

Legend
I think all the "Richard Williams was a bad guy" people are missing the point a bit...

He doesn't come across as a nice guy, nor does he come across as a well-rounded father in the movie at all... He does come across as the man who raised the two most successful women's players in the 21st century in Compton, CA, though. And he does come across as the man who did it all his way.

I do wish the movie had added more complexity and shown the darker side of the rest of the family, but to some extent that's the point. Richard sacrificed a lot of stuff, including his marriage, and was a very imperfect person. I have long felt that tennis fathers put their kids through cruel and unusual disciplinary programs as children. Think about Mike Agassi, Peter Graf, Jon Tomic, (uncle) Toni Nadal, Srdjan Djokovic, the list goes on and on - of obsessed, control freak types who sacrifice their other children and every other aspect of their child's life for them to become an all time great tennis player. The amount of hard work to get to the highest level in tennis is borderline ridiculous and untenable.

Perhaps the reason Venus and Serena are so successful is that his other kids were not as successful, and that Richard was an imbalanced man and difficult to deal with in other aspects of his life. And perhaps that's the point: everything in life comes with trade-offs.
 
Yes. Not seeing the movie because of your personal emotional baggage is a miserable way to live.
So sad that fake tennis fans will skip the best tennis movie of all time because of personal politics.
A sad small minded angry way to live.

Sherlock, everyone know Richard left his other kids.
What's your point? That has nothing to do with Serena and Venus.

To the actual real tennis fans here, go enjoy a great film this weekend !
I love it when a plan comes together !
Ignorant fool! I watched the movie. I felt bad for the one of the main characters who got shafted by the protagonist of the movie. The fact that I became invested in one of the characters means the movie was good.

Maybe you are secretly attracted to King Richard? Don't worry, it's ok that you are. We are not judging. Lol!
 

TimHenmanATG

Hall of Fame
Kirsten is so lucky she nabbed that Spidey contract lol. She's such a straight to DVD actress.
I'm not a major fan of the actress - in fact I've probably never thought about her once over the course of the last 15 years - so I'm curious as to why you're so strongly against her.
 

Kralingen

Legend
Kirsten is so lucky she nabbed that Spidey contract lol. She's such a straight to DVD actress.
I'm not a major fan of the actress - in fact I've probably never thought about her once over the course of the last 15 years - so I'm curious as to why you're so strongly against her.
Kirsten is a bit of a mainstream meh queen in American films, but... her performances in Eternal Sunshine, Melancholia, and Fargo earned my admiration.

She's this weird chameleon of an actress where her level of acting directly correlates to the quality of the film she's in. We criticize players for playing down to their competition so I think she deserves similar acclaim lol. I do think she has more talent than meets the eye though. Melancholia especially is what changed my mind.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
D
Kirsten is a bit of a mainstream meh queen in American films, but... her performances in Eternal Sunshine, Melancholia, and Fargo earned my admiration.

She's this weird chameleon of an actress where her level of acting directly correlates to the quality of the film she's in. We criticize players for playing down to their competition so I think she deserves similar acclaim lol. I do think she has more talent than meets the eye though. Melancholia especially is what changed my mind.
Did she play in "Spencer"?

Have you seen it?
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Actually Germans are almost as good as the Mayflower material in the US. Do you realize that Germans made up about 10% of the population in late-1700s?
Were they interned?!?

Don't try and avoid the answer or somehow absolve the Japanese American internment that occurred!
 

Kawasaki Kanagawa

Professional
Watched it last night. Great movie, loved it. Also it's great it appeals to non-tennis fans... my wife loved it!

Some of the attention to details was insane! ASV behind the back ball clip, COME ON!!!
 

FiddlerDog

Professional
Watched it last night. Great movie, loved it. Also it's great it appeals to non-tennis fans... my wife loved it!

Some of the attention to details was insane! ASV behind the back ball clip, COME ON!!!
That is the right attitude.
Never again will $50 million be put into a tennis movie.
This movie will not even break even.
A true gift to tennis nerds.
Enjoy it before its too late!
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
CCP is the bug, crush it.
Nah, it's a Netflix issue. Not available here in India either, at least last I checked. Actually I wonder if Netflix's India operation is in silent rightsizing because their movie catalogue has been whittled down dramatically too. At this rate, I may cancel it and take a mubi subscription along with that Lionsgate thing.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
You either aren't from America and if you are from America, you live in a bubble somewhere. I don't remember anything in the movie about the subject you are talking about, and it's not even important to the story, but why would something like that not be believable? Ever heard of Emmett Till or any of the other horrors that happened in the US south around that time? You could have left that subject alone.
I am not from America and I know about Aubery. Even Brian Kemp wouldn't dare decry that verdict.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
For those bizarrely claiming the movie is the "whole story" of Richard, you desperately need to educate yourself. What about the first family he abandoned?
The film is attempting to tell the "whole story" regarding his nurturing his daughters' tennis careers. Its not a documentary or lurid tell-all.

Its--by far--the best tennis movie ever produced, and the kind of responses its already earned prove--once again--the power and positive impact the Williams sisters had on the sport. Truly a one-of-a-kind story.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
Greatest black American story since the Jacksons. Black parents and a dream :D
I think for all that certain fans moan about Serena's three USO incidents, she and her sister are far better role models than Jackson who got in a messed up way eventually. Sure the music industry is messed up but it didn't affect Stevie Wonder. He is still around, still singing at the funerals of black artists younger than him which is both sad and funny.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
I think it is the best tennis movie ever, I don't count movies where the tennis is just part of the story. That leaves "Wimbledon" "Players" "Borg vs. McEnroe" and a bunch of bad comedies like "Balls Out" so it's true there isn't much competition. I have heard "The French" is very good, but haven't seen it yet.
I thought Borg McEnroe was brilliant but I guess most people couldn't get past LeBouf as McEnroe. Somehow everything I have heard and read about King Richard suggests to me that this is way more of a Hollywood hagiography than that one (which would have left people wondering who was actually the troubled one - Borg or McEnroe). Nevertheless I would still love to watch it if it was available somewhere, anywhere. Hmm.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
Nah, it's a Netflix issue. Not available here in India either, at least last I checked. Actually I wonder if Netflix's India operation is in silent rightsizing because their movie catalogue has been whittled down dramatically too. At this rate, I may cancel it and take a mubi subscription along with that Lionsgate thing.
OK it seems even the theatrical release is in Feb '22. Guess they are going Beautiful Mind with this. They will hold off the India release until the Oscar lift. Though I don't know anyone here who watches the Oscars anymore. The last time I did was the last time Billy Crystal hosted it. The ceremony has only gotten weirder and weirder since then.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Until this thread came along I thought that the almost universal consensus of opinion was hostile to Richard, but now apparently he is royalty.

Ric Macci is certainly under the impression that he coached the sisters to greatness, and was ill-rewarded for his efforts.
 

The Big Foe fan

Hall of Fame
Nah, it's a Netflix issue. Not available here in India either, at least last I checked. Actually I wonder if Netflix's India operation is in silent rightsizing because their movie catalogue has been whittled down dramatically too. At this rate, I may cancel it and take a mubi subscription along with that Lionsgate thing.
2 days ago You said you were in china, now you say you're from India.
That's a lot of travel bruh.
 

NonP

Hall of Fame
Nah, it's a Netflix issue. Not available here in India either, at least last I checked. Actually I wonder if Netflix's India operation is in silent rightsizing because their movie catalogue has been whittled down dramatically too. At this rate, I may cancel it and take a mubi subscription along with that Lionsgate thing.
FYI MUBI easily makes up in quality what it lacks in quantity. The best programming among all streaming platforms I've tried, and I'm including TCM and Criterion. Not to mention rare titles not found anywhere else like Raul Ruiz, Bela Tarr's The Turin Horse, Chabrol's The Third Lover/L'Œil du malin and Landru/Bluebeard, John Gianvito's Her Socialist Smile, etc.

It's a little pricey here in the States ($10.99/mo) so I tend to pause it every now and then - FYI I subscribe to Netflix, Prime AND Hulu (HBO Max and TCM I get for "free" from the cable company) - but between Netflix and MUBI? Not a close call for moi. (FYI MUBI used to give you 31 days to try rather than the usual 7 if you signed up via Roku, but that promo seems to have ended.)

I thought Borg McEnroe was brilliant but I guess most people couldn't get past LeBouf as McEnroe. Somehow everything I have heard and read about King Richard suggests to me that this is way more of a Hollywood hagiography than that one (which would have left people wondering who was actually the troubled one - Borg or McEnroe). Nevertheless I would still love to watch it if it was available somewhere, anywhere. Hmm.
As Moose noted earlier this movie is playing only in theaters except in the US where Warner is trying to boost its sagging HBO Max numbers with the dual release. They really whiffed it with the hefty $15 price tag instead of going the Hulu route with both basic/ad-supported and premium plans (now HBO offers a whittled-down $10 plan of its own), cuz HBO is in many ways the best streaming option for the average consumer: a generous library of mainstream, classic (read: TCM) and international (Criterion) titles, as well as the only online home for Studio Ghibli (including, yes, virtually all of Miyazaki).
 

a10best

Hall of Fame
I actually agree 100%. The film was emotional, raw and a 10. One of the best sports films in the last 20 years. Even Serena's young actress had a Serena-ish voicewhich was pretty cool. That disagreement the parents had in the kitchen really hit home.
The movie was about Richard. His point of view, not Venus or Serena or what they experienced while playing because I remember some matches I went to where the crowd did not cheer for Venus. Mainly out of disrespecting tradition with their plastic braidlets and an intimidating game face.
Nice to see Richard wanted them to be educated properlyand enjoy life over everything else.
A controlling guy but for the right reasons who was blessed with two amazing athletic daughters.
So, he gets the credit for the open stance and Oracene for Serena's serve. okay
Either Will or Oracene's actress deserves a grammy nomination. It would be a huge travesty if they don't receive it.

Questions I have are:
Why would you take your daughters to Compton's dangerous park instead of nearby Hawthorne, Lawndale just a few miles away? Gas was very cheap back then for a VW bus.
Why devote more of the movie to Venus and not show more of the GOAT? what happened with their other daughters?
Because of my second question, will there be a Princess Serena film since this one left our her early tournament years? I say yes and would want to see that too.

People should appreciate what they've achieved as Americans in their sport. Just as we appreciate Phelps, Jordan, Tiger, Brady, and the rest. They are phenoms.
 
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FiddlerDog

Professional
Questions I have are:
Why would you take your daughters to Compton's dangerous park instead of nearby Hawthorne, Lawndale just a few miles away? Gas was very cheap back then for a VW bus.
Why devote more of the movie to Venus and not show more of the GOAT? what happened with their other daughters?
This is well documented. He deliberately moved to Compton despite being able to afford better, in order to build their character, he claims.
He wrote out a 78 page plan before they were born, and facing adversity was on the plan.

The film focused on the Macci years before the went pro. At first, media, it was all Venus who was a foot taller than runt Serena.
Venus was the one with the huge Reebok contract and went pro first. After the story ends, it is a standard path for Serena
Venus opened the door, Serena walked through it after
 

FiddlerDog

Professional
Google Maps.
You can look up their old tennis court on Compton Boulevard and Atlantic Avenue.
Amazing historic landmark !
 
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