Klip Legend/Cream hybrid

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#1
Ok, I finally had a chance to play Klip Legend (17)/Cream (17) @ 56/50.
Now, I'm rather kicking myself for changing the tension from VS Team/Cream @ 57/51.

The Klip felt a bit more comfortable and the feel was really good. But it had just a touch more power but no added spin. So I wasn't quite as confident and would often hit the ball long or into the net. It felt really good practicing rally with it. But when it came down to playing a match, I went back to my VS Team/Cream @ 57/51.

So I don't know if it's the 1# tension difference or if it's the strings themselves. Maybe I need to keep the tension the same to compare apples to apples. Or maybe if I kicked up the tension to 57 or even 58# for Klip, it would have toned down the power a bit.

As it stands, I'll just do warm ups and practice with Klip. But when it comes down to playing my best, it's going to be my VS/Cream even though it now has at least 12-14 hrs of play on it.
 
#2
You're playing with two different strings. Pretty sure that will make a bigger difference than one pound of tension... I would try to keep as many variables the same when comparing two different setups
 
#3
Change one variable at a time. Coulda, Shoulda logic. :) If you have any string savers, add some. It could deaden the response a little so the ball does not fly.
 

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#4
You're playing with two different strings. Pretty sure that will make a bigger difference than one pound of tension... I would try to keep as many variables the same when comparing two different setups
Yeah, and I'm comparing VS/Cream with 12+hrs of play. Not to mention the tensions is probably even lower than the newly strung Klip/Cream. So I think the 1# reference tension difference is probably negligible.

The Klip did have a softer feel. VS felt a bit more crisp. If I can make a more recent comparison, it felt more like the OGMS/Velocity hybrid but with more power and spin. I think if I didn't have the VS/Cream, I could definitely live with this setup. But for the moment, I'm more in tune with the VS/Cream than Klip/Cream.

One thing that is interesting is now my racquets feel very close in balance. I'll have to throw them on a scale and balance it today and check RT on both.
 
#5
Ok, I finally had a chance to play Klip Legend (17)/Cream (17) @ 56/50.
Now, I'm rather kicking myself for changing the tension from VS Team/Cream @ 57/51.

The Klip felt a bit more comfortable and the feel was really good. But it had just a touch more power but no added spin. So I wasn't quite as confident and would often hit the ball long or into the net. It felt really good practicing rally with it. But when it came down to playing a match, I went back to my VS Team/Cream @ 57/51.

So I don't know if it's the 1# tension difference or if it's the strings themselves. Maybe I need to keep the tension the same to compare apples to apples. Or maybe if I kicked up the tension to 57 or even 58# for Klip, it would have toned down the power a bit.

As it stands, I'll just do warm ups and practice with Klip. But when it comes down to playing my best, it's going to be my VS/Cream even though it now has at least 12-14 hrs of play on it.
I'm using Legend/Cream right now at 56/51. But I don't have any other gut combo to compare it to.
 
#6
Maybe I'm the only one (and maybe because it was fb Cream), but I found the first half hour with Cream to be a "lively" break in. I would definitely not judge it by the first 30 minutes.
 

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#8
I'm using Legend/Cream right now at 56/51. But I don't have any other gut combo to compare it to.
So far, the VS feels a bit more crisp. Just feel like I know more of when and how it makes contact with the string bed. And again, the power is controlled a bit more.

But for $28 vs $43. Hm…
Though, since I hybrid and they last a while, I might just pay the premium to get EXACTLY what I like. But have a set of KLIP Legend on hand as well. I'm starting to become a gut junky...
 
#9
You can use gut until the weather turns on you ... and drizzles or rains. So one of your frames need all synthetics. You are more than a gut junky ;) you just won't admit it.
 

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#10
You can use gut until the weather turns on you ... and drizzles or rains. So one of your frames need all synthetics. You are more than a gut junky ;) you just won't admit it.
When the weather starts getting wet (late October) then I'll have to move indoors. ;) No. I won't admit it. But you have to admit, I've settled down quite a bit. Like I don't change strings as often as I used to. Heck, I think @392Hemi changes racquets more frequently…(ooh, I had to toss that one in there:p)

Ok. Confession time. I am a bonehead. I went to hit with my son to give him a little practice before his doubles match tomorrow. I pulled out my racquet with Legend and realized I had a vib damp on it. It's the tiny Prince rectangular one. So that accounts for the two racquets feeling similar balance. But also accounts for the muted feel.

Took the damp off and played. :D

This time, I only played with Legend. Honestly, other than the slight sound difference, I couldn't tell too much significant difference between the two. I would need to pull the VS racquet out and hit back to back. I think it's that close. I didn't have too much trouble controlling the power. But then again, my hits were a bit erratic today. I'm going to chalk that up to being a bit stiff from playing a bunch last night for the first time in a while.

When I got home, my racquet with Legend was (49#) 11.6oz. My racquet with VS was (50#) 11.64 and a bit more HH. I would say the Legend racquet was about 8HL and the one with VS was about 5HL.
 

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#11
So just reporting back on my impressions of Legend vs VS. I have probably about 14hrs on the VS setup and about 4hrs on the Legend setup.
I'm still finding the Legend to offer a slightly softer feel, a hair more power. I think spin is the same. In terms of control, I think that's a tough one. I guess it depends on how I'm feeling.

I've been a bit low on energy these past weeks and so the little bit more power on the Legend is actually preferable. But at the same time, it's allowing me to get a bit lazy. Plus, it's strung in the racquet that is a touch more HL.

I'd like to try Legend again but with a bit more tension to see if I can get the power levels to match that of the VS.

But unless I have the two racquets available to hit back to back, I think I would have a hard time deciphering between the two.
 
#13
I'm also interested to know if people are finding Cream a better cross with natural gut than some of the other popular poly crosses. I've used Revolve and Max Power, and I'd like to try Cream as well. I just wonder if the only advantage Cream brings is a softer response that helps those with arm issues. If I'm giving up spin vs Revolve or tension maintenance vs Max Power I'm not sure if it's worth it though,
 

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#14
so,... is Iso Cream a solution to people who can't take polyester, even as a cross with guts ?
I don't know that Cream is necessary for those with sensitive arms. I would think the gut would be sufficient to provide the comfort needed. Still, the gut slides on the poly for part of the deflection and I have to believe that a softer cross provides a bit more deflection.

Plus, Cream has provide to provide good tension maintenance.
 

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#15
I had a chance to play some pick-up doubles this weekend. I played the first set with Legend and the second set with VS.

I really like the feel and comfort of Legend. But I'm thinking I need to tune down the power as I played better with VS.
 
#16
Been recently hitting with a late 60 yr old guy and I think he is using several month old poly... Not sure what Prince racquets, but they look quite used.
He doesn't serve due to shoulder issues and sometimes has to stop rallying for the day depending on wrist/arm pain.
Used to coach private lessons and wouldn't be surprised if he was 5.0 back in the day.

How long does gut/cream last on average?
I may gift him a set of multi, gut, or gut/cream. Maybe even a used stick down the road when I find his specs.
 

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#17
Been recently hitting with a late 60 yr old guy and I think he is using several month old poly... Not sure what Prince racquets, but they look quite used.
He doesn't serve due to shoulder issues and sometimes has to stop rallying for the day depending on wrist/arm pain.
Used to coach private lessons and wouldn't be surprised if he was 5.0 back in the day.

How long does gut/cream last on average?
I may gift him a set of multi, gut, or gut/cream. Maybe even a used stick down the road when I find his specs.
I probably have 15hrs on my VS/Cream setup and other than very light fraying has no issues. The gut actually lasts longer with poly cross as the string to string friction is less. Cream has pretty good tension maintenance and is a softer poly to boot.

I think the Legend/poly hybrid is a pretty good value. For $40, you get two stringings out of it. That'd be a nice gift for sure.

I think he is using several month old poly...

How long does gut/cream last on average?
I may gift him a set of multi, gut, or gut/cream. Maybe even a used stick down the road when I find his specs.
Old poly is definitely not for someone that has frequent wrist/arm/shoulder pain. Or anyone else for that matter.
 
#18
While I've decided I prefer a 16g gut/poly hybrid, I tried Legend 17 and Team mains in a few frames. In my experience, the Legend lost a little more tension before it settles than the VS, maybe 2# more loss. So a 57/54# string job with VS played the same for me as a 59/54# Legend string job did (in a PS97, both with Revolve crosses).
 
#19
I probably have 15hrs on my VS/Cream setup and other than very light fraying has no issues. The gut actually lasts longer with poly cross as the string to string friction is less. Cream has pretty good tension maintenance and is a softer poly to boot.

I think the Legend/poly hybrid is a pretty good value. For $40, you get two stringings out of it. That'd be a nice gift for sure.


Old poly is definitely not for someone that has frequent wrist/arm/shoulder pain. Or anyone else for that matter.
Thanks for the reply. I will go with gut/cream.
He plays almost everyday and hits with low spin due to the wrist sensitivity. Hopefully that combination will last a good while. :)
Not sure if he understands what polyester strings are. He only replied he is using durable stiff strings to prevent restringing. His English is good, but is his second language.
 

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#20
While I've decided I prefer a 16g gut/poly hybrid, I tried Legend 17 and Team mains in a few frames. In my experience, the Legend lost a little more tension before it settles than the VS, maybe 2# more loss. So a 57/54# string job with VS played the same for me as a 59/54# Legend string job did (in a PS97, both with Revolve crosses).
That's a very interesting experience. I'll have to take an RT reading before doing anything to my racquets. I was thinking of re-stringing my Legend stick to tone down the power a bit.

I wanted to compare the two and strung the Legend 1# less than VS Team. But knowing that VS had 12hrs of play. But almost from the start, Legend had more power it seemed. Since I have a few more hours on Legend now, it would be interesting to see what it finally settles in at.
 

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#21
Thanks for the reply. I will go with gut/cream.
He plays almost everyday and hits with low spin due to the wrist sensitivity. Hopefully that combination will last a good while. :)
Not sure if he understands what polyester strings are. He only replied he is using durable stiff strings to prevent restringing. His English is good, but is his second language.
There are a lot of good options out there. Just need to know the playing style.

For a flat hitter, playing with poly because it doesn't break as quickly is definitely the wrong reason for it. My son broke NXT so quickly and that's when we started down the poly road. But also, his racquet is almost required to play with poly because of how open the string pattern is and with only 16 crosses.

If he has good RHS, he might want to try a low powered multi like Velocity. I know there are some "blended" multis that have a bit of poly added in to the formula.

I think one of the desirable traits for me was the added spin of the gut/poly. It's pretty much poly level without the dangers of stiff strings.
 
#22
That's a very interesting experience. I'll have to take an RT reading before doing anything to my racquets. I was thinking of re-stringing my Legend stick to tone down the power a bit.

I wanted to compare the two and strung the Legend 1# less than VS Team. But knowing that VS had 12hrs of play. But almost from the start, Legend had more power it seemed. Since I have a few more hours on Legend now, it would be interesting to see what it finally settles in at.
I use RT to measure, but it's in the ballpark and should be accurate as to the relative difference. As someone else said, only making one change at a time gives the best comparison. A gut poly job isn't cheap and last pretty long for me, so cutting them out to retry 2# higher isn't an option!
 
#23
so,... is Iso Cream a solution to people who can't take polyester, even as a cross with guts ?
I hadn't used poly in a couple of years due to shoulder problems (couldn't even tolerate it in a gut hybrid) but decided to string one of my prestiges with a full bed of Cream at 35 lbs. I've played 4 sets so far and haven't felt much discomfort at all. I usually play with full bed gut, but I'm finding this set up to be pretty addictive. Tons of pop and control, and no harshness. I think I can stick with it as long as I am careful with serving.
 
#25
Thanks for the reply. I will go with gut/cream.
He plays almost everyday and hits with low spin due to the wrist sensitivity. Hopefully that combination will last a good while. :)
Not sure if he understands what polyester strings are. He only replied he is using durable stiff strings to prevent restringing. His English is good, but is his second language.
Question: if he has a wrist issue, and isn't currently spin-dependent, why poly at all? If he isn't a string breaker ... wrist might heal with fb klip gut, or fb origin ... or fb multi. Since he commented on it lasting longer ... perhaps he is a string breaker. If so, FB Cream would be cheap test and a lot better than old poly.
 
#26
Question: if he has a wrist issue, and isn't currently spin-dependent, why poly at all? If he isn't a string breaker ... wrist might heal with fb klip gut, or fb origin ... or fb multi. Since he commented on it lasting longer ... perhaps he is a string breaker. If so, FB Cream would be cheap test and a lot better than old poly.
I don't think he has the same understanding of tennis strings as people who frequent this forum.
Only hit with him 5 - 6 times and met him 3 weeks ago.
When he mentioned the wrist/arm/shoulder issue I asked what string is in your racquet. Is it polyester?
He replied it is a stiff string that lasts a long time. Didn't directly answer my question, but from that it is most likely poly and old.
Also mentioned in the past he would break strings every couple or few weeks. Not sure how far in the past.
I suggested multifilaments, but that was two weeks ago and last week he was still on the old string.
Doubt he knows the specific words polyester or multifilament. :(

Got to wait for my leg pain to heal, but I will gift him gut/cream the next time I see him.
It would be awesome if that is the "cure" and perhaps nudge him towards arm friendly strings going forward like Velocity.
 
#27
I don't think he has the same understanding of tennis strings as people who frequent this forum.
Only hit with him 5 - 6 times and met him 3 weeks ago.
When he mentioned the wrist/arm/shoulder issue I asked what string is in your racquet. Is it polyester?
He replied it is a stiff string that lasts a long time. Didn't directly answer my question, but from that it is most likely poly and old.
Also mentioned in the past he would break strings every couple or few weeks. Not sure how far in the past.
I suggested multifilaments, but that was two weeks ago and last week he was still on the old string.
Doubt he knows the specific words polyester or multifilament. :(

Got to wait for my leg pain to heal, but I will gift him gut/cream the next time I see him.
It would be awesome if that is the "cure" and perhaps nudge him towards arm friendly strings going forward like Velocity.
"Also mentioned in the past he would break strings every couple or few weeks."

Not good :D for gut gifting. Wrist/arm/shoulder problems + string breaker is a tough spot. I would suggest FB Velocity as a cheap trial "gifting". It's pretty durable for a multi ... so if he breaks that quickly it will rule out the other multis... and maybe gut. If you have the $ to gift gut to string breakers ... do you need a new friend? :D I asked @TenFanLA the same thing ... he spends serious $gut$ .... might move to California to be his new friend. Even if he sucker punches me on posts.
 

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#28
I would suggest FB Velocity as a cheap trial "gifting". It's pretty durable for a multi ... so if he breaks that quickly it will rule out the other multis... and maybe gut.
I second this suggestion. FB Velocity is filling in a nice niche for those that think they need poly but have pain issues.
 
#29
"Also mentioned in the past he would break strings every couple or few weeks."

Not good :D for gut gifting. Wrist/arm/shoulder problems + string breaker is a tough spot. I would suggest FB Velocity as a cheap trial "gifting". It's pretty durable for a multi ... so if he breaks that quickly it will rule out the other multis... and maybe gut. If you have the $ to gift gut to string breakers ... do you need a new friend? :D I asked @TenFanLA the same thing ... he spends serious $gut$ .... might move to California to be his new friend. Even if he sucker punches me on posts.
Well he is late 60's and hits with low spin. But i'll give him a set of Velocity 17 since I have two sets on hand.
Just concerned about his arm.
He is consistent on rallies and volleys. It's like having free tennis lessons considering he use to coach private lessons. :)
Wanted to give something back!
 
#30
Well he is late 60's and hits with low spin. But i'll give him a set of Velocity 17 since I have two sets on hand.
Just concerned about his arm.
He is consistent on rallies and volleys. It's like having free tennis lessons considering he use to coach private lessons. :)
Wanted to give something back!
My TE from last year healed 100% with fb Velocity this summer. If fb V mid-tension or lower still hurts the arm/wrist ... time for time off.
 

Syfo-Dias

Professional
#32
I'm planning to string my Yonex Duel G 330 with Klip 16g mains and Cream 17g crosses. What do you guys think would be a good tension differential? I was thinking maybe 58/55, but not sure yet.
 

drak

Professional
#34
Time to revive this thread and get updates - are folks still using and likely CREAM as a cross to gut mains? or have you found a better cross with gut?
 
#35
Time to revive this thread and get updates - are folks still using and likely CREAM as a cross to gut mains? or have you found a better cross with gut?
I tried cream as a cross with Legend in my first Gut-poly string job, as I was using Cream in cross with Head Velocity main back then. I am not big fan of Cream as a cross with Gut or for that matter with powerful multi (I tried with Origin, though technically not multi).
Gut being so powerful and comfortable/plush, I like cross string that plays crisper and deader. This gives the best feel in Gut-poly IMO.

I tried MSC Co-Focus and Yonex YTPP (black Color) as cross and both have better feel that Cream cross.
Feel: MSV Co-Focus > YTPP > Cream
Spin: MSV Co-Focus >> Cream > YTPP.

Though I restrung Co-Focus crosses once (after first 12 hours) as I felt poly had gone dead. Cream may last longer as a cross (I had Velocity/Cream for 20+ hours in same racket before), but I cut it out in my racket in 4 hours.
I think even Tourna Black Zone will be better cross with gut than Cream. I have a half set of Black Zone, but will need to wait until YTPP goes dead.

For insight into better crosses, you may want to check Gut-Poly thread.
 

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#36
Time to revive this thread and get updates - are folks still using and likely CREAM as a cross to gut mains? or have you found a better cross with gut?
Well, after a few tries with Gut/Cream (VS and Legend), I've scratched Cream off as a cross. For me, there was a bit of inconsistency whether I hit off center or in the sweet spot. Also, there seemed to be a touch inconsistency in launch angles depending on whether I was going for a flat shot, a neutral shot with a small amount of topspin and a full cut groundstroke.

For me, Velocity in the cross provided that consistency and forgiveness that I was lacking with Cream. It did a great job of toning the power and getting rid of that "sweet spot". Now, if you play full out topspin strokes all the time, I think it could play better for you. But it wasn't working out for me.
 

drak

Professional
#37
Well, after a few tries with Gut/Cream (VS and Legend), I've scratched Cream off as a cross. For me, there was a bit of inconsistency whether I hit off center or in the sweet spot. Also, there seemed to be a touch inconsistency in launch angles depending on whether I was going for a flat shot, a neutral shot with a small amount of topspin and a full cut groundstroke.

For me, Velocity in the cross provided that consistency and forgiveness that I was lacking with Cream. It did a great job of toning the power and getting rid of that "sweet spot". Now, if you play full out topspin strokes all the time, I think it could play better for you. But it wasn't working out for me.
Interesting, I recently strung an Angell Tc100 with Legend/Velocity and it plays fairly (great tension holding) well but seems to lack topspin as the strings seem pretty "locked" in. I just got this frame so I may cut out the crosses and put in my standby Revolve crosses which I like with Legend - snapback on this is really good. I wanted to try Cream crosses but based upon feedback I think I would prefer Revolve.
 

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#38
Interesting, I recently strung an Angell Tc100 with Legend/Velocity and it plays fairly (great tension holding) well but seems to lack topspin as the strings seem pretty "locked" in. I just got this frame so I may cut out the crosses and put in my standby Revolve crosses which I like with Legend - snapback on this is really good. I wanted to try Cream crosses but based upon feedback I think I would prefer Revolve.
Yeah, you just need to try things out to see how things work for you.
I used to want max spin from my strings. And more and more, I've been working on my technique and Velocity/Cream is still one of my favorite hybrids; very accurate, low launch angle, forgiving, can provide good spin with good technique. Legend/Velocity provides similar levels of control, but better feel, slightly higher launch angle for a touch more spin. Dialing in the right tension seems to be the key.
 

drak

Professional
#39
Yeah, you just need to try things out to see how things work for you.
I used to want max spin from my strings. And more and more, I've been working on my technique and Velocity/Cream is still one of my favorite hybrids; very accurate, low launch angle, forgiving, can provide good spin with good technique. Legend/Velocity provides similar levels of control, but better feel, slightly higher launch angle for a touch more spin. Dialing in the right tension seems to be the key.
well if you think Legend/V has a bit more spin than Legend/Cream makes no sense for me to try it since I like the Legend/V well enough, if I want to try for more spin seems Legend/Revolve appears the way I will go
 

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#40
well if you think Legend/V has a bit more spin than Legend/Cream makes no sense for me to try it since I like the Legend/V well enough, if I want to try for more spin seems Legend/Revolve appears the way I will go
Sorry. I miss-typed. I was thinking Velocity/Cream in my head.
Legend/Cream has a touch more spin than Legend/Velocity.
 
#44
Velocity 16/Cream 17 has same spin than VS Touch 16/Max Power Rough 17?
I think the answer to your quest is to change racquets lol. You want the spin of pure poly but your arm can't take it. Gut/poly is too harsh. Multis don't spin enough. Sometimes the answer is to switch to an arm friendly low powered frame so that you don't need as much spin to control your shots.

There are only so many humans that can pound heavy topspin groundies with stiff rackets and stiff strings and not pay the price. If you are not one of them, change the equations to remove stiffness and alter your game plan accordingly.
 
#45
Sometimes the answer is to switch to an arm friendly low powered frame so that you don't need as much spin to control your shots.
It is not that I need spin to control... It is because I LOVE SPIN!!! :p
My pleasure in tennis is ONLY the SPIN on clay. And dropshots!!! :D

It would be much more easy on the arm to play with poly on frame like Prince Phantom 100 Pro or Yonex Vcore Pro 100??
 
#46
It is not that I need spin to control... It is because I LOVE SPIN!!! :p
My pleasure in tennis is ONLY the SPIN on clay. And dropshots!!! :D

It would be much more easy on the arm to play with poly on frame like Prince Phantom 100 Pro or Yonex Vcore Pro 100??
Spin is addictive but you can get it with other racquets. You just have to work for it rather than making it come easy in a spin frame/poly setup. Every pre-polyester professional could hit more RPM's with 85 sq in rackets and full gut than any of today's rec players.

I think a soft racket allow you to drop tensions in poly and make them more comfortable. Whether that is enough is a person to person thing. I've been poly free for over a year now and am starting to go back and give it a try in hybrids again and see what I can tolerate. If my arm acts up then its back to multis.

Only you can find the right combination. But my general advice is too always start at the softest and then slowly add in harsher racquets and strings. Starting with the harshest setup and slowly taking away harsh things will just lead to prolonged tendon damage.
 
#49
So I finally figured out how to tame my Legend/Cream racket. I was noticing more spin with this combo but also less control than usual. Adjusted my grip to a more conventional semiwestern and voila, launch angle and control issues gone.

Much better. It's funny how things can slowly slide over time in response to different rackets and string setups. Have to be more mindful. I'd been playing a lot with a 93P with much lower launch angle and my grip had consequently moved a bit more to Eastern side of things. That started causing issues when i pulled out my Phantom 100.

I guess that's why some people just stick with one frame and one setup and learn to love it. I should maybe think about that too eventually. Admittedly it was arm injuries that forced a change. Otherwise I'd still be happily playing Tonic/4G in a Babolat Pure Drive.
 
#50
I guess that's why some people just stick with one frame and one setup and learn to love it. I should maybe think about that too eventually. Admittedly it was arm injuries that forced a change. Otherwise I'd still be happily playing Tonic/4G in a Babolat Pure Drive.
Majority of people... ;)
I also think that you should think about it. But you already have the best frame on the market to preserve your arm. :)
I will have it too and adapt my game with pain free. So excited!!!
 
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